tank destroyer M36B2 GMC, workhorse of the French army in Indochina (+ decals!)

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

                        M36B2 GMC, workhorse of the French army in Indochina

Paint of a French M36B2, advancing in the Indochinese landscape. Found on Google Images, artist unknown.

Note: see the opened armored hatch on the roof.

 

Another suggestion today for the French tech tree, which is about the M36B2 GMC 'Jackson'. Thanks for reading, don't forget to discuss about it and, most importantly, to vote!

 

History:

The CEFEO:

The French Far East Expeditionary Corps (or CEFEO -Corps Expéditionnaire Français en Extrême-Orient- in French) is an army group of the French army (Armée de Terre in French) which was created in 1944, in order to allow France to fight the Japanese Empire, which was occupying the Indochinese territory (one of the French colonies) during the Second World War. But, thanks to the Japanese capitulation in 1945, the CEFEO wasn't deployed. After the end of the war, the CEFEO was engaged in the Indochina War, during almost eleven years of intensive fights against the Việt Minh.

 

The CEFEO was using 452 tanks & tanks hunter in 1954, before the end of the war. Most of them were M24 Chaffee and M36B2 GMC. They were mostly dispatched in the Régiment Blindé Colonial d’Extrême Orient (Colonial Armored Regiment of the Far East in French).

 

Some pictures of French soldiers of the CEFEO.

 

M36 in the CEFEO :

Very used during Indochina War by the French army, the M36 was originally meant to be deployed along the Chinese border to prevent Chinese reinforcements (including armored forces). It was usually used as a fire support vehicle, mostly against Viet light vehicles or heavy fortifications, bunkers or hideouts. At the end of 1952, twelve M36B2 were delivered ta Tonkin to replace the old M4A1 Sherman. They formed 3 platoons belonging to the 3 armored regiments of Tonkin, namely the 1st R.Ch., the RICM and the RBCEO. Subsequently 3 other squadrons were equipped with M36.

 

Fun fact:

Every M36B2 which was deployed to replace an old M4 Sherman tooks its name after the replacement. As US or Soviet tankists, French crews were linked to their vehicles and personified them with names, to which they were very attached and this since the first use of tanks of the French Army history (which brings us back to the first world war!).

 

 

French M36B2 in action (pictures):

Spoiler

⏏️ M36B2 GMC firing. note the .30 cal extra mg on the side of the tanks.

⏏️ M36B2 GMC advancing/ Note the Colonial Armored Regiment of the Far East emblem and the armored hatch on the roof.

⏏️ A 'Jackson' behind some plam trees.

⏏️ Another picture of a French M36B2 in the Indochinese terrain. Note the soldier behind the turret and the extra 30 .cal mg, equiped with an armored plate.

 

Technical datas and characteristics:

Differences between the M36 variants:

Spoiler

⏏️ The standard M36 GMC 'Jackson'. Already ingame in the US tech tree. M10 GMC hull, no muzzle break, no armored hatch, no second machinegun.

 

⏏️ The M36B1 GMC. Already ingame in the Italian tech tree. Jumbo hull, muzzle break, different canon, no armored hatch, no machinegun. (here with Iranian livery)

⏏️ The M36B2 GMC used by the CEFEO in Indochina. M10 GMC hull, muzzle break, sometimes equipped with B1 or standard M36 canon, armored hatch over the turret to protect the roof from grenades and enemy fire from upper positions like buildings or trees, .50 cal machinegun and an extra .30 cal machinegun on the turret right side (an extra mg was a often installed because of the risks of close combats in urban and jungle environments, it was also installed with an armored plate to protect the gunner). 

 

About the extra mg:

The extra mg, as said many times before, is a .30 cal mg (7.62mm). It's the same used as a lot of US tanks. Often installed to allow a better protection against enemy soldiers in close combat zones (like the jungle), it was mounted with an extra armored plate. We can already find this mg in the game with the armored plate on the US LVT :

The two .30 cal machineguns on the LVT(A)1, that could be used on the French M36B2.

Possible liveries and decals:

Spoiler

⏏️ It would be very nice to get the emblem of the Colonial Armored Regiment of the Far East emblem as a decal for French tanks. It was the only armored force used in Indochina.

 



⏏️ Some text decals as 'Puma' or 'Cambronne' for French tanks would be nice too, as these names were really used by some tanks in the Indochina War.

⏏️ Emblem of the CEFEO. Could be a nice decal.

 

The French M36B2 GMC 'Jackson' in War Thunder:

Why does Gaijin should add it to the French tech tree? Before shouting things like "wooo, another US material in the French tree!", please consider some arguments:

1. It was used intensively in Indochina, aside the M24 Chaffee and some M4 Sherman, so it's a part of the French armored forces history, as the Indochina War is very important for French military history too.
2. The French 5.7 line is very poor: there is only a heavy tank here, the ARL-44 (and yes, it's a heavy tank, not a tank destroyer). M36B2 could be added here as it would allow the French players to build a base for the 5.7 line up with it, the ARL-44 and the AMX-13 DCA 40. This line up could be reinforced with the French Panther or the French Tiger too. (suggested here and here)
3. The M36 is a very good 5.7 tank destroyer, well armed, mobile and efficient.
4. The US tech tree has the standard M36 GMC, the Italian one has the M36B1 and the French tech tree could receive the B2: all three variants of the M36 GMC could be fitted in the game then in three different trees.
5. The French soldiers who served in Indochina are forgotten a lot in France (especially now...). Mostly because the Indochina War (which leads to Vietnam War) was considered as a "bad war", a lot of French soldiers were bashed and/or forgotten, and also abandonned in Vietnamese camps. Bad war or not, their fight, sacrifice and their lives shouldn't be forgotten.

 

Sources:

Wikipedia

https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/engins-blindes/automoteurs?task=view&id=85

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

+1

You just saved me the effort of doing a suggestion on this tank. Thanks! 

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

Just now, Private_Wolk said:

+1

You just saved me the effort of doing a suggestion on this tank. Thanks! 

Glad to hear it comrade!

[Conraire 5,722]

I'm all for it, except for your BR placement.  As a post war refit of the M36B2, it'd likely be using post war ammunition.  Not to mention, the US M36 at 5.7 doesn't have the turret roof, and extra MG's.  I could see it being at 6.0 or 6.3 especially with post war ammunition.  

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

5 minutes ago, Conraire said:

I'm all for it, except for your BR placement.  As a post war refit of the M36B2, it'd likely be using post war ammunition.  Not to mention, the US M36 at 5.7 doesn't have the turret roof, and extra MG's.  I could see it being at 6.0 or 6.3 especially with post war ammunition.  

Hem.. it's still a M36: M10 armor, 90mm WW2 canon. An armored roof hatch and a poor .30 cal mg don't justify a 6.0 or 6.3 br. It does for the B1 which has the Jumbo hull, but certainly not for this! This could launch it to 7.0 br, do you imagine?

 

Btw, thanks for your interest for this suggestion.

Edited August 27, 2019 by UFO_Interceptor

[Conraire 5,722]

6 minutes ago, UFO_Interceptor said:

Hem.. it's still a M36: M10 armor, 90mm WW2 canon. An armored roof hatch and a poor .30 cal mg don't justify a 6.0 or 6.3 br. It does for the B1 which has the Jumbo hull, but certainly not for this! This could launch it to 7.0 br, do you imagine?

 

Btw, thanks for your interest for this suggestion.

 

Actually the B2 uses the M10 hull with the diesel engine.  And many of them were refitted with wide track suspension, thus increasing their mobility, especially post war.  And a fair amount were also upgraded with the 90mm M3A1 gun, the one used on the M46 and M26A1.  It wouldn't make sense to have the B2 firing post war ammunition at the same BR as the regular M36, which is firing war time ammo.

 

[ВернемУкраину 284]

That would be a nice tank for French tech tree for something marathon like WW2 chronicles.

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

4 minutes ago, Conraire said:

Actually the B2 uses the M10 hull with the diesel engine.  And many of them were refitted with wide track suspension, thus increasing their mobility, especially post war.  And a fair amount were also upgraded with the 90mm M3A1 gun, the one used on the M46 and M26A1.  It wouldn't make sense to have the B2 firing post war ammunition at the same BR as the regular M36, which is firing war time ammo.

Wowowoh.. don't forget that these one were given by the USA to France. Not sure they have been refitted with the M3A1 canon, as we see it on the pictures, especially on here:

47 minutes ago, UFO_Interceptor said:

or here

 

And the paint isn't a valuable source.

 

3 minutes ago, FreshTheGame said:

That would be a nice tank for French tech tree for something marathon like WW2 chronicles.

Maybe not as a marathon vehicle as it is mostly reserved to exotic stuff, but as a standard or premium, why not!

Edited August 27, 2019 by UFO_Interceptor

[Conraire 5,722]

5 minutes ago, UFO_Interceptor said:

Wowowoh.. don't forget that these one were given by the USA to France. Not sure they have been refitted with the M3A1 canon, as we see it on the pictures, especially on here:

 

And the paint isn't a valuable source.

 

Maybe not as a marathon vehicle as it is mostly reserved to exotic stuff, but as a standard or premium, why not!

 

Yeah, thats why I said 6.0 maybe, Now, if the snail gives it war time ammunition from ww2, thats a different story.

 

Spoiler

 

[Milocat 4,842]

+1, would be a fantastic addition to the French ground tree!  

[Valcour 1,139]

+1  Badly needed for France!

 

[Jo_cavalier 13]

+1 

[Wolf_89 2,523]

Yes pls.

[eleks12 1,076]

+1

[nxdefiant001 1,396]

Still don't understand why China (Taiwan) has access to those but not France. They bought those M36 from France

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

On 17/09/2020 at 04:00, nxdefiant001 said:

Still don't understand why China (Taiwan) has access to those but not France. They bought those M36 from France

Also imagine Italians having access to the M24 but not the French. Oh, wait..

[PlanyKaanere 722]

16 minutes ago, Sternjager said:

Also imagine Italians having access to the M24 but not the French. Oh, wait..

 

France already has two AMX-13s at that BR, though.

[Cedjoe 5,481]

25 minutes ago, PlanyKaanere said:

 

France already has two AMX-13s at that BR, though.

I mean there's space for it between the Crusader and the AMX-13 (FL11) 

And it's not like it would take a lot to research it anyway 

[Sternjaeger84 1,075]

On 01/10/2020 at 18:05, PlanyKaanere said:

France already has two AMX-13s at that BR, though.

No care about that, epic tank of Indochina War + unique camos.

[stuka2689 314]

On 02/10/2020 at 01:31, Cedjoe said:

I mean there's space for it between the Crusader and the AMX-13 (FL11) 

And it's not like it would take a lot to research it anyway 

Same BR 3.3, not a domestic desigin, take plenty of research points for new players. I'm sorry but I think we don't need a chaffe for french tech tree.

And even for premium, we have a Amx 13/M24!

Edited October 7, 2020 by police2689

[Cedjoe 5,481]

3 minutes ago, police2689 said:

Same BR 3.3, not a domestic desigin, take plenty of research points for new players. I'm sorry but I think we don't need a chaffe for french tech tree.

And even for premium, we have a Amx 13/M24!

I agree we don't "need" it, but it could be nice to have another stabilized tank, which the premium version sadly lacks, and tbh it's really not that hard to research, even for new players 

[stuka2689 314]

14 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

I agree we don't "need" it, but it could be nice to have another stabilized tank, which the premium version sadly lacks, and tbh it's really not that hard to research, even for new players 

Not that hard....ok.

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by police2689

[Cedjoe 5,481]

10 minutes ago, police2689 said:

Not that hard....ok.

 

18k RP (in the Italian tree)  unlocked within 4 games with 4 or 5 kills

Edit : you also have to consider it was the main light tank of the french army for years before the AMX-13 was introduced, and it was used in great numbers.

Edited October 7, 2020 by Cedjoe

[Kasukaru 2,164]

As much as I'm against captured vehicles and the like in normal tech trees, historical vehicles used in combat should definitely get priority. So +1 for this one, despite being a US model.