Intermarium Tech tree *aka Eastern Europe*

[PacketlossRedux 595]

On 25/09/2019 at 15:10, MadMax_ITA_ said:

Emh... It's not how it works since you would have Poland Hungary Czech and Finland, 3 Warsaw pact nation with a NATO nation, so nato and soviet vehicles and you would not make it possible to put it non a side at higher ranks. Romania yugo Bulgaria and Ukraine may be fine like Italy go with axis and at rank 4 goes with allies same would go for this tree, until rank 4 with Germany as historically, and after with ussr

well iam by no expert on finnish eq. but they used soviet tanks mainly after ww2 T54, 55, 72, PT 76... and than every one of these nations ended up in NATO...so eq wise there are no problems. Or i did not understand the problem here.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Jacky95

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

6 minutes ago, Jacky95 said:

well iam by no expert on finnish eq. but they used soviet tanks mainly after ww2 T54, 55, 72, PT 76... and than every one of these nations ended up in NATO...so eq wise there are no problems. Or i did not understand the problem here.

They did use some comet and charrioter, stugs and panzer, it would be a soviet British and German tree then. If necessary I would just put in unique tanks and not the mix mash of post war nato and urss tanks

[PacketlossRedux 595]

14 minutes ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

They did use some comet and charrioter, stugs and panzer, it would be a soviet British and German tree then. If necessary I would just put in unique tanks and not the mix mash of post war nato and urss tanks

yeah. thats kinda how Steff incorporated the Finnish in the Minor axis tech tree too. i agree with that. only the iconic,self made and modified vehicles. And they fit very well with the aforementioned nations 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Jacky95

[eleks12 1,079]

42 minutes ago, Jacky95 said:

yeah. thats kinda how Steff incorporated the Finnish in the Minor axis tech tree too. i agree with that. only the iconic,self made and modified vehicles. And they fit very well with the aforementioned nations 

 

As im sure you know. Finland was neutral duing the Cold War. And one of the ways the USSR wanted to keep Finland neutral was to sell them some of their most advanced weapons systems to them. Example Finland was the first nation to buy the Mig-21 even before other Warsaw pact nations.

 

 

However both Nato and the Warsaw pact believed that if WW3 was going to start Finland was going to follow Swedens footsteps and Sweden believed that it would most likely be at war with the USSR over the strategic island  of Gotland. Since who controls Gotland controls the Baltic Sea

The US had multple times in the Cold War and in present day invited both Sweden and Finland to NATO in exchange for military security inside NATO. However Both Sweden and Finland declined since they know they will be priority targets for the Soviet/Russian nuclear arsenal.

 

So in my opinion Finland belongs to a Scandinavian/Swedish tree due to them usally being allied with Sweden and the rest of the Nordic family, historically and colturely they consider themselves closer to Scandinavia than Eastern Europe. Geographically they are part off the Scandinavian peninsula even though small parts of Russia also are part of it like the City of Murmansk. And also that Finland despite operating Soviet equipment considered the Warsaw pact a military threat until it was disolved at the end off the Cold War.

Edited September 26, 2019 by eleks12

[PacketlossRedux 595]

10 minutes ago, eleks12 said:

So in my opinion Finland belongs to a Scandinavian/Swedish tree due to them usally being allied with Sweden and the rest of the Nordic family, historically and colturely they consider themselves closer to Scandinavia than Eastern Europe

yeah. there are multiple good implementation methods for the Finnish tech. BTW when are you updating,or will you be updating this tree?

[eleks12 1,079]

46 minutes ago, Jacky95 said:

yeah. there are multiple good implementation methods for the Finnish tech. BTW when are you updating,or will you be updating this tree?

 

Maybe here in the weekend since i have been busy lately

Edited September 26, 2019 by eleks12

[Solarmod 1,204]

+1, I need more trees to grind.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

I would recommend the further addition of the Baltic nations to the tree as well. I can compile a list if interested.

[Solarmod 1,204]

13 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

I would recommend the further addition of the Baltic nations to the tree as well. I can compile a list if interested.

I would like to see that.

[TinyPolska26 130]

You forgot some low tier armored cars. The Wz.29 and Wz.34 for Poland. But other than that this would be nice to see happen. +1

[eleks12 1,079]

On 09/10/2019 at 05:13, tinygerman26 said:

You forgot some low tier armored cars. The Wz.29 and Wz.34 for Poland. But other than that this would be nice to see happen. +1

 

I have added you're sugguested vehicles for the tech tree.

sorry for the delay.

[stefffff1871 2,448]

while i am still not a fan of such a tree i try to support every way to give us some regular minor nations vehicles

mayb you can consider the bulgarian T-11

 

Edit: and maybe rething some of the premiums of you. i see some that really belong in a researchable part of the tree

Edited February 24, 2020 by stefffff1871

[spamanator500 94]

The tree looks pretty good - I'm interested to see how this pans out.

[User94998549 2,838]

I support this tree, cause I really want to see Yugoslavia in the game, but just one little tidbit: Yugoslavia was not Eastern Europe, it was South-Eastern. ;-)

 

There's also a sheet-ton of other stuff Yugoslavia would be able to contribute like multitude of version of BOV armored cars (everything from ATGM carrier to SPAA), M-84 tanks, M60PB, F84s and Sabres, Gazelles, Mi-8s, MiG-29s, MiG-21s, etc. Wargame has a pretty Yugo tree.

On 24/02/2020 at 06:22, spamanator500 said:

The tree looks pretty good - I'm interested to see how this pans out.

 

Knowing Gaijin, I don't think it will ever come, but it's nice to dream.

[TinyPolska26 130]

On 23/02/2020 at 16:29, eleks12 said:

 

I have added you're sugguested vehicles for the tech tree.

sorry for the delay.

its okay. I semi-forgot about this forum post but okay.

[Borotovas 4,500]

I don't like it because it isn't based on anything realistic. This tech tree doesn't even have a flag.

 

Also Serbia and NATO are more like enemies than friends. It would be weird having NATO/EU countries together with anti-NATO countries like Serbia and the historical Yugoslavia.

 

Bosnia, Srpska, Croatia, and other eastern European countries are completely ignored by this tech tree.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Borotovas

[eleks12 1,079]

17 hours ago, Borotovas said:

I don't like it because it isn't based on anything realistic. This tech tree doesn't even have a flag.

 

Also Serbia and NATO are more like enemies than friends. It would be weird having NATO/EU countries together with anti-NATO countries like Serbia and the historical Yugoslavia.

 

Bosnia, Srpska, Croatia, and other eastern European countries are completely ignored by this tech tree.

 

I disagree. The Intamarium is based on something that was seriously considered by Poland and it's local allies both before and during the Interwar period. Though due to both local and international politics this was not possible. Poland considered the Intermarium an alliance structure of Eastern and Central European countries to counter German and Russian influence.

Today the Intermarium is currently not officially Considered. Since it is believed not to be necessary for Poland. Due to both NATO and the EU is believed to do the same work that an Intermarium alliance is designed to achieve.

 

The Intermarium concept did have many sugguested flags or symbols throughout history. Though since the military alliance never existed. It does not have an official flag. So you are correct it does not have an official logo. But incorrect it does not have a historically designed logo.

And when it comes to alternative flags like the fake German flag ingame that Gaijin use for legal reasons. They could of course just change it to the official German flag or even German Imperial flag for historical accuracy. And nations like Russia ingame are technically in a international tech tree that use the USSR flag. Even though this was not the intended to be a international flag when War Thunder still was just considered a WW2/Post WW2 game.

 

When it comes to former Yugoslavian nations today. It was one of the Geographical areas that Poland considered part of their potential military alliance project. And the nations that are independent today is totally not ignored in this War Thunder Sugguestion. Since i just considered it Yugoslavia. and all post Yugoslavian machine are totally welcome in this sugguestion board. Just like post USSR Machines are welcome in the USSR tree like the MI-35 and possible T-90 tank. So it's totally incorrect i don't sugguest having these machines in this sugguestion.

 

Here is one of many flags that was considered.

Edited February 27, 2020 by eleks12

[___JL 157]

it's a good idea. but in war thunder matchmaking it isn't west vs east. if it was then it would feel more immersive and nice. But I think Romania can have a tree on it's own

Edited March 1, 2020 by ___JL

[___JL 157]

I have a suggestion. The flag could be a half Nato/warsaw flag. because after 1991 they becamse members of NATO. so after like tier 9 those nations will start playing with the USA.

[RavenousElf 13]

I love this idea, knowing how Yugoslavia and Poland alone have the vehicles to dwarf some of the already existing trees, this would be absolutely massive and have the potential to be "the next big tree".

 

EDIT: Apparently I caused some confusion - I was reffering to how many are opposed to the individual countries of Eastern Europe, such as Poland and Yugoslavia, joining the game for "not having enough vehicles".

Edited March 26, 2023 by RavenousElf

[Shadow__CZ 2,198]

I need to say that I really like the idea of grouping several CEE nations together. Because whenever I look at TT proposals such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, BeNeLux or even already implemented ones like Israel I find them having too many or too similar vehicles trying to pad out the numbers of vehicles. And in some cases heavily relying on large numbers of copy paste. So I am really not a fan of 3 or more lackluster TTs but I also like the idea of unique vehicles from these countries. Implementing these vehicles into existing TT is also not a good solution since Russian nor German don't need it and can use their own vehicles. So I think combining some of these into some sort of regional TT as long as the composition makes sense is a great way how to implement these unique vehicles with the least amount of copy paste possible.

 

Although I need to say in my opinion there is better grouping then the Intermarium. Since it never really took of and I think grouping Czechoslovakia, Poland and Yugoslavia suplemented by Ukraine and Baltic nations (although I managed only to find vehicle to represent Lithuania). Why? Because three main nation have very similar TT composition with Czsk and Pol having bit more fully domestic designs and Yugoslavia having bit more of a western equipment at low to mid tiers and at high tier having modification of soviet MBTs and IFV and ending with some western vehicles at the top. All the main nations are also intertwined by several vehicles used across several of the nations presented. And Ukrainian vehicles are included since it fits the loose defining factors and the vehicles nicely fill the top tier gaps and it seems to be the best way to implement them now.

 

I think the Bulgaria, Romania and Hungary is better to be included in Italian TT as part of minor axis nation where Hungarian vehicles would form lower tiers and cold-war Romanian and Bulgarian vehicles completing the top tiers. 

 

The CEE TT also allows for at least somewhat diverse and full TT even after that AF TT is rather lacking and has a lot of copy paste.

 

Here is the TT layout I propose and I made colored badges to diferentiate between prototypes, serial production vehicles and non-domestic design without modifications.

• Green - mass production/limited serial production
• Yellow - prototype vehicle
• Red - non-domestic design without modifications
• Blue - potential adition vehicle in development/being produced

The TT:

Spoiler

 

Some statistics: Researchable TT has 90 vehicles of which only 11 are non-domestic designs without modifications, as for copy paste (designs already present in game with no difference to the ones already in game) there are 15 of them. As for distribution of vehicles across nations Czechoslovakia has 29, Poland 30, Yugoslavia 32, Ukraine 8 and Lithuania 1 the sum wont be equal since some vehicles represent more than one nation.

 

The lines are split in a fairly regular manner with one exception of 2 medium lines instead of one medium and one heavy since all heavy tanks would be copy paste non-domestic designs. 

Line - 1 - Light tanks and IFVs 

Line - 2 - Medium tanks 

Line - 3 - Medium tanks 

Line - 4 - SPAAGs

Line - 5 - TDs and SPGs

 

Here is more detailed description of each line and with general information regarding each vehicle.

 

Line 1 - Light tanks and IFVs 

At the start the line is made up from Czechoslovak and Polish light tanks made before WW2 and during WW2. After that it continues with AFVs and scout vehicles armed with various recoiless rifles. The high ranks are represented by various BMP-1/2 conversions and wheeled AFVs/IFVs armed with ATGMs.

 

Rank I

Spoiler

4TP

Polish prototype of light tank from 1937. With armament of 20mm cannon, maximum speed was 55 kph and very thinly armored 17 mm at most. 

 

LT vz.38

Basically Pz.Kpfw. 38(t) Ausf. A since Pz. 38 is just captured LT vz.38. 

 

10TP

Another Polish prototype this time from 1938. With all aspects improved compared to 4TP. Armament now was 37mm Bofors wz.37 gun armor was increased to 20mm maximum although the turret just has 16mm. The maximum speed could be as high as 75 kph if using wheels and 56 kph when using tracks.

 

 

Rank II

Spoiler

Škoda T-15

Project of scout tank developed by Skoda works based on German specification during protectorate era. The prototypes were armed with a 37mm Skoda A19 gun, armor was 30mm at maximum and top speed was 60 kph.

 

 

Rank III

Spoiler

OT-65A

Czechoslovak scout vehicle build upon Hungarian FUG-D-442 (BRDM-2) armored car. The OT-65A was armed with turred with 7,62mm machine gun and 82mm T21 recouiless rifle with very low muzzle velocity (250 mps). The maximum speed is 80 kph.

 

 

Rank IV

Spoiler

OT M-60PB

Yugoslavian OT M-60 AFV armed with two 82mm M-60 recoilless rifles and top speed of 43 kph.

 

OA-82 Jarmila II

Czechoslovak scout vehicle prototype based on Tatra 805 chassis and armed with twin 82mm vz. 59 recoiless rifle with high muzzle velocity (for recoiless rifle). Maximum speed was 80 kph. No prototype was preserved, current pictures are of a replica.

 

M-80A

Yugoslav IFV developed in response to BMP-1. Compared to the M-80 it now uses a more powerful domestic engine. It is armed with 20mm M55 cannon and four 9M14M Malyutkas of which 2 are ready to fire and top speed of 65 kph.

 

 

Rank V

Spoiler

M-80A/98

Serbian modernisation of the M-80A now armed with a 30mm M86 cannon in modified turret, the ability to launch 9M14M Malyutkas is retained. Can in theory have modification to M-80AB1 but I think that would warrant higher BR.

 

BWP-40

Polish prototype of modernizing the BMP-1s with a CV90 turret. The mobility was worsened because of the heavier turret.

 

 

Rank VI

Spoiler

OT-64 Cobra

Slovak prototype of modernizing the OT-64 AFVs with Cobra turret. The Cobra turret was armed with a 30mm 2A42 cannon and 9K111 launcher (Konkurs). The top speed of the OT-64 is 94 kph.

 

BTR-3E1

Ukrainian BTR-3 APC armed with BM-3M "Shturm-M" turret. The armament consists of a 30mm ZTM-1 cannon and two Barrier ATGMs. It has 3rd gen thermals and the top speed is 100 kph.

 

BMP-1UMD

Ukrainian modernisation of BMP-1. Armed with a Stilet turret carrying 30mm ZTM-2 cannon, 30mm grenade launcher and Barrier ATGMs.

 

BVP-M

Slovak modernisation program for BMP-1s. It now carries the Turra 30 turret which is armed with 2A42 cannon and two Konkurs ATGMs. The new turret is also equipped with CITV for commander.

 

BTR-4MV1

Prototype of very deep modernisation of BTR-4 with improved armor, new engine and new turret. The maximum speed is 100 kph and the turret carries 30mm ZTM-1 cannon and Barrier ATGMs

 

 

Rank VII

Spoiler

KBVP Pandur II

Czech made version of Pandur II armed with Israeli RCWS-30 turret carrying 30mm Bushmaster II and two Spike-LR missiles. The top speed is 105 kph. Able to be uparmored with ASPRO-P but it then loses ability to swim.

 

Rosomak ZSSW-30

Modernisation of the Rosomak IFVs (Patria AMV) but replacing old turret by new Polish turret armed with 30mm Bushmaster II dual Spike-LR ATGM launcher, the top speed is 100 kph. The protection compared to Pandur II is higher

 

Vilkas

The Lithuanian version of Boxer IFV, it is armed with a Samson Mk2 turret with Bushmaster II and Spike-LR ATGMs. Top speed is 103 kph

 

CV90 Mk.IV SK

Future Slovak IFV based on the CV90 Mk.IV. The specifications include the 35mm gun and APS system most likely Iron Fist.

 

Lazar 3 (30/2 RWCS)

Serbian IFV armed with 30/2 RWCS turret with twin 30mm cannons and NOVA ATGMs which are able to be remotely TV guided meaning non line of sight ability. The top speed is 110 kph. I would be very wary of such a vehicle being added but I wanted to demonstrate the top tier potential.

 

 

 

 

Line 2 - Medium tanks

Starts with Czechoslovak light tanks and medium tanks followed by T-34s and Yugoslav T-34 inspired vehicles. Rank V is made up from Polish and Czechoslovak T-54/55s and high ranks are filled with Czechoslovak and Polish modifications of T-72 and the top is caped by K2PL.

 

Rank I

Spoiler

LT vz.34

Czechoslovak light tank made by CKD. Maximum armor is 15mm and top speed is 30 kph. The armament is 37mm Skoda A3 gun same as on the LT vz. 35.

 

LT vz.35

Basically Pz.Kpfw. 35(t) since Pz. 35 is just captured LT vz.35. 

 

ŠP-IIb

Prototype of "infantry tank" made by Skoda works and CKD. The armor was 30mm and top speed was 45,8 kph. It was armed with a 47mm Skoda A9 gun.

 

 

Rank II

Spoiler

ST vz. 39 (V-8-H)

CDK prototype created from experience gained from the ŠP-IIb. It was armed with a 47mm Skoda A11 gun and armor was 32mm. The top speed was 45 kph.

 

T-34-76 (1943)

T-34-76 used by Czechoslovak/Polish brigades or by Yugoslav partisans in the red army. And in the Czechoslovak/Polish armies after the war.

 

 

Rank III

Spoiler

T-34-85M1

Polish production T-34-85 with small manufacturing improvements.

 

Vozilo A

Yugoslav prototype of domestic development of a T-34-85. With armor improvements.

 

 

Rank IV

Spoiler

M-320

Yugoslav project based on experience with M47, T-34-85 ect. Armed with an 85mm gun. 

 

 

Rank V

Spoiler

T-54A

T-54 (1951) used by Polish, Czechoslovak and Yugoslav armies.

 

T-54M

Modernization of T-54A upgraded up to T-55A standart.

 

T-55AM1

Same as T-55AM1 in game. But T-55AM2 which is Czechoslovak version using domestic fire control computer and having LWS.

 

Rank VI

Spoiler

T-72M1

Version of T-72 developed for Soviet satellite states, same as T-72M1 already in game.

 

PT-91 Twardy

Polish modernisation of T-72M1 with more powerful engine but same transmission speeds, improved ERA, 3rd gen thermals for gunner.

 

 

Rank VII

Spoiler

PT-91M2

Further modernisation of the PT-91 now with CITV coupled with new weapon station, improved 2M46MS gun from Slovakia and slat armor protecting the engine.

 

T-72M4CZ

Czech modernisation of T-72M1 with new power pack improving mobility 61 kph F and around 14 kph R. New thermals including CITV, new ERA equivalent to K2. It also has access to new VETRA APFSDS (it isn´t the same round as TAPNA) roughly comparable to DM43 in performance.

 

PT-16

Polish prototype of possible modernisation of T-72M1 with new composite armor added around the turret and hull, CITV, 120mm compatible with standard NATO rounds and improved mobility.

 

K2PL

Polish version of K2 to be used by Polish army, it is possible to use just K2 transferred from South Korea or future modification of K2 when it is manufactured in Poland.

Sadly I needed to split the post because it was too large that is also reason why I couldn´t include vehicle images because the post was too big with them

 

 

 

 

Sadly I needed to split the post because it was too large that is also reason why I couldn´t include vehicle images because the post was too big with them

 

 

Line 3 - Medium tank

The beginning of the line is mainly made up from western vehicles and their modifications then transitioning to Yugoslav and its successors states modification of T-72s. Top ranks are also filled by Ukrainian modification and the top is ended by Polish-Ukrainian project based on T-72.

 

Rank I

Spoiler

7TP

Polish light tank armed with 37mm Bofors wz. 37, armor was 17mm maximum and the top speed was 37 kph.

 

S.35 6 pdr.

Yugoslav modification of S.35 armed with 6 pdr gun.

 

 

Rank II

Spoiler

Cromwell IV

Cromwell IV used by the 1st Czechoslovak armored brigade.

 

Cromwell I

Cromwell I used by the Polish 1st Armored division.

 

Sherman IC

Sherman used by the Polish 2nd Armored Brigade.

 

 

Rank III

Spoiler

M-634

Yugoslav prototype of modification of Sherman fitted with engine from T-34-85.

 

SO-122 M-4

Yugoslav prototype of modification of Sherman armed with the 122mm A-19 gun and fitted with new V-2R engine.

 

 

Rank IV

Spoiler

M-636

Yugoslav project based on experience with M47, T-34-85 ect. Most likely armed with a 90mm gun. There is very little info on this and M-320 project so more info would be welcome.

 

 

Rank V

Spoiler

T-54A ZET-1

Polish modification of T-54A with cage armor to improve protection of T-54A. Only prototype was build

 

M-55S

Slovenian modernisation of M-55 = Yugoslav T-55. Armed with the 105mm L7 gun and new ERA most likely Blazer.

 

 

Rank VI

Spoiler

M-84A4

Modernisation of M-84 which itself has a better engine compared to standard T-72M1. The upgrade mainly consisted of improved NVD. Top speed is 65 kph.

 

M-95 Degman

Prototype based on M-91 Vihor hull which had improved armor compared to M-84. The M-95 also has a new PRAK ERA similar to K5. It also has improved mobility with a top speed of 70 kph and is fitted with 2nd gen gunned thermals. But it lacks modern APFSDS rounds.

 

T-64BM Bulat

It is a Ukrainian modernisation of T-64B. It is equipped with a new engine and mainly the protection is improved by Nozh ERA.

 

M-84AB1

Modernisation of M-84 with K5 ERA, Shtora APS and new Agava-2 thermals.

 

M-84D

Modernisation of M-84. Utilizing many upgrades from the M-95 prototype also has a new PRAK ERA similar to K5. It also has improved mobility with a top speed of 70 kph and is fitted with 2nd gen gunned thermals. But it lacks modern APFSDS rounds but has access to new LAHAT ATGM it also has an improved autoloader with 9 rdspm ROF.

 

 

Rank VII

Spoiler

T-84U Oplot

Modernisation of T-84 which is modernisation of T-80U with new engine. With new gunner thermals and Nozh ERA and Ukrainian version of Shtora APS. 

 

M-84AS2

Further Serbian modernisation of the M-84 including 3rd gen thermals for gunner and commander, new ERO-19 ERA supposedly equal to Relikt. New round APFSDS was also developed. The mobility is slightly worse because the engine didn't receive an upgrade.

 

BM Oplot-M

Further modernisation of T-84 by Ukraine. Including substantial improvement to protection because of Duplet ERA, new engine but because of increased weight the top speed is 70 kph but reverse was greatly improved to 35 kph. The tank is also equipped with gunner and commander thermals. The downside is lack of modern ammo which could be partly solved by VETRA APFSDS which is something which it could in theory get since Czechia is supplying Ukraine with ammo including tank rounds.

 

PT-17

Joint Polish - Ukrainian project of modernisation of T-72 including completely new turret with 120mm KMB2 and gunner and commander thermals. The tank also has improved mobility with a new power pack. 

 

 

 

 

Line 4 - SPAAGs

Consists of various SPAAGs most of which are built on wheeled chassis. 

 

Rank I

Spoiler

OT-810 (vz. 38/46)

One of first prototypes of the Czechoslovak OT-810 halftrack armed with vz. 38/46 (DSHK) machine gun. The top speed was 60 kph.

 

Pobur LO-1800A ZPU-2

Polish Pobur LO-1800A truck with ZPU-2 AA system. The ZOU-2 has two 14,5 KPV machine guns. 

 

 

Rank II

Spoiler

M3-A3 PVO

Yugoslav modification of M3-A3 Stuarts replacing turret for Flakvierling 38 AA mount.

 

 

Rank III

Spoiler

T-34/85 R-10

Czechoslovak prototype of mounting 57mm Skoda R-10 on T-34-85 hull.

 

BOV-3

Yugoslav SPAA built on BOV 4x4 chassis the open top turret carries triple 20mm M55 cannons (Hispano L/70). Top speed is 93,4 kph.

 

 

Rank IV

Spoiler

M53/59

Same as the Czechoslovak M53/59 already in game.

 

BOV-30

BOV 4x4 SPAA with new turret equipped by 30mm cannons.

 

 

Rank V

Spoiler

BVP-1 STROP

Prototype of Czechoslovak SPAA based on BVP-1 utilizing the same armament as M53/57. The system uses a unique passive radar system which is able to detect the bearing of enemy planes without a radar emitter. The system then uses a laser rangefinder and TV camera to calculate range and automatic lead. Sadly the prototype was never fully completed while the system was fully completed for purposes of testing the FCS and other electrical instruments used power source outside, but there were plans of installing a gas turbine APU.

 

 

Rank VI

Spoiler

LSPZRA Stalagmit

Polish SPAA prototype utilizing two 23mm cannons and quadruple Grom missile launcher. It uses ELOP targeting system utilizing cameras and laser rangefinder.

 

STROP II

Further Czech development of the STROP project now utilizes the one 2A38 cannon and 2 Strela-2M missiles. It still uses the passive radar technology from STROP I. I decided not to use Slovakian BRAMS since I can't verify it has any other targeting system other than the optical sight.

 

Zbik-P/R

Polish SPAA prototype built upon Zbik armored car (BRDM-2B) armed with quadruple Grom missile launcher and radar.

 

 

Rank VII

Spoiler

PASARS-16

Serbian SPAA built on FAP-2026BS/AV chassis utilizing a passive targeting system with thermals and laser rangefinder. The armament consists of 40mm Bofors L/70 and various missiles. Including 2x RLN-1C (improved R-13M) or 4x 9K38 Igla or 4x 9K32M Strela-2M or 2x Mistral 3s. It is also supposedly capable of firing 40mm programmable air burst rounds.

 

MSHORAD (ReVisor)

I will admit this is somewhat of a mashup of possible configurations. It is SAABs MSHORAD system based on the Czech MARS III truck equipped with a triple RBS-70NG launcher. This system is normally coupled to Giraffe 1X radar in a separate vehicle which isn't viable in game, so I propose to use Czech trailer based ReVisor radar which can be paired with a portable command station replacing the command console inside the MARS III.

 

Pantsir-S1

Serbian Pantsir-S1.

 

 

 

 

Line 5 - TDs and SPGs

The line starts with Polish tankettes continues with Yugoslav field modifications. Following with Czechoslovak "light" tank destroyers and Yugoslav Jackson at rank III, after them there are several SPGs each very unique. Following them are ATGM carriers and the top is filled with several wheeled vehicles, the top being very unique missile TDs.

 

Rank I

Spoiler

TKS (FK-A vz.38)

Polish tankette armed with 20mm FK-A vz.38 cannon. The armor is just 10mm and the top speed is 40 kph. 

 

TKS-D

Prototype of TD based on TKS tankette chassis armed with 37mm Bofors wz.36 gun. The top speed was 42 kph but the armor was just 6mm

 

75 mm PF621L

Polish SPAA using French 75 mm Mle 1897 field gun mounted on PF621L chassis. I managed to find very little info about it so if anyone is providing more info I would welcome it.

 

 

Rank II

Spoiler

SO-75 Mk.III Mod.

Yugoslav modification of Pz. III with Pak 40 mounted instead of the turret.

 

SO-75 M3-A3 Mod.

Yugoslav modification of M3-A3 Stuart with Pak 40 mounted instead of the turret.

 

 

Rank III

Spoiler

ST-I

Jagdpanzer 38(t) in Czechoslovak service.

 

OT-810D

The OT-810 is basically Czechoslovak version of Sd.Kfz. 251 half track armed with 82mm vz. 59 recoilless rifle with high muzzle velocity (for recoilless rifle).

 

M53/59 D-30

Serbian modification of the M53/59 replacing the AA turret with a new one equipped with the 122mm D-30 gun.

 

 

Rank IV

Spoiler

SO-90 M-36B1 Mod.

Yugoslav M-36B1 with possibility of a new HEAT round.

 

Nora B52

Serbian truck mounted artillery with a top speed of 90 kph. The system has peak ROF of 4 rdspm. Big disadvantage of Nora is very limited firing arc in forward direction. 

 

MT-LB-12

Ukrainian modification of the MT-LB with 100mm MT-12 gun. The performance in game will be highly dependent on ammo selection Gaijin decides to give it.

 

 

Rank V

Spoiler

A 40 Himalaya

Slovak development of vz. 77 DANA. The Himalaya is based on a turret developed for the Zuzana program and features a 155mm L52 gun in a 360° rotating turret. In the case of the Himalaya this turret is mounted on the T-72M1 hull.

 

ShKH vz. 77 DANA

Czechoslovak truck mounted artillery. The turret is placed on a modified Tatra 8x8 chassis. The system has a high ROF for artillery with 5 rdspm and utilizes an automatic loading system. The DANA also has access to potent HEAT rounds with 560mm pen making DANA quite potent TD although with downside of only -4° depression and turret being able to only turn 225° to either side making the turret not fully rotatable. The top speed is 80 kph.

 

BOV-1

Yugoslav ATGM carrier based on the BOV 4x4 chassis. It is armed with 4 9M14M Malyutka missiles. Top speed is 93,4 kph.

 

 

Rank VI

Spoiler

Barrier-S

Basically Ukrainian version of Shturm-S with improved thermals. And improved missiles with more than 800mm pen.

 

Rosomak AMUR

Polish Rosomak with a remote weapon module carrying 4 Spike-LR ATGMs and 4 Grom AA missiles. 

 

 

Rank VII

Spoiler

Rosomak WWO Wilk

Prototype of fire support vehicle based on Rosomak platform. The Rosomak is fitted with a Cockerill CT-CV turret equipped with a 105mm gun.

 

WPB Anders 120

Project of universal IFV/light tank platform named Anders developed by Polish company OBRUM. This version is armed with a 120mm Ruag CTG gun with a 12 round autoloader and other 20 in ammo rack. The top speed is 72 kph. It is fitted with CITV

 

Ottokar-Brzoza

Polish project of future ATGM based tank destroyers. Currently the project is likely to use 4x4 chassis and have a quadruple launcher armed with Brimstone missiles and other four missiles for reload.

 

Lazar 3 (RALAS)

Serbian tank destroyer based on the Lazar 3 APC. It is armed with 8 launch tubes for RALAS missiles. The RALAS missiles is a TV guided missile with continuous data transfer between launcher and missile. The operator is able to designate targets mid flight and change the approach. The system is very powerful with only disadvantage being a rather slow flight speed of around 170-200 mps. But I would still be very wary of such a vehicle being added but I wanted to demonstrate the top tier potential.

 

 

Sadly I needed to split the post because it was too large that is also reason why I couldn´t include vehicle images because the post was too big with them

 

 

[Shadow__CZ 2,198]

Sadly I needed to split the post because it was too large that is also reason why I couldn´t include vehicle images because the post was too big with them

 

PREMIUM vehicles

 

Rank I

Spoiler

LTL

Light tank produced by Czechoslovak ČKD made for Lithuania. It was armed with 20mm Oerlikon cannon, armor was 25mm maximum and top speed was 54 kph. Only one prototype was made.

 

AB 41

AB 41 used by the Polish  Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade.

 

PZlnż 160

Alternative project to the TKS-D the prototype was armed with 37mm wz.36 Bofors gun, the top speed was 50 kph.

 

T-21

Prototype of medium tank made by Skoda works. Armed with a 47mm Skoda A11 gun, the armor was 30mm maximum. The top speed was 50 kph.

 

 

Rank II

Spoiler

14TP

Unfinished prototype of next Polish light tank. It was to be armed with most likely 37mm Bofors wz.37 L/45 the armor was between 35-50mm and top speed was to be 50 kph.

 

T-34/76 1943 "Lidice"

T-34/76 1943 which was used by 1st Czechoslovak Independent Brigade. The tank was one of the first 10 used by the battalion. With the name chosen in memory of the village Lidice.

 

 

Rank III

Spoiler

Jagdpanzer 38(t) Starr 

Late war simplified version of the Jagdpanzer 38(t) with only L/40 gun and without recoil mitigation system. I suggest using one of two unique prototypes, one with improved armor with 80mm of frontal armor or the second equipped with a more powerful Tatra engine.

 

Sherman IC "Trzyniec"

The system Sherman IC "Trzyniec" is already in the game. It was used by 1st Squadron, 4th Armored Regiment "Scorpion", 2nd Armored Brigade, 2nd "Warsaw" Armored Division.

 

SU-85

SU-85 with next to no modifications, the SU-85 were used by both Czechoslovakia and Poland but didn't really fit the line so I decided to suggest it as a premium/event vehicle.

 

Tiger A18

During the war Skoda works developed several designs for German tank projects, one of those was the T-25. The prototype was never built but the 75mm L/55 A18 gun with 5 round drum autoloader was made. After the war, the gun was fitted into a Tiger tank for testing. It is unclear if the Tiger was I or II since even though Czechoslovak sources note that there were both I and II they don't precisely distinguish between them. 

 

T-34-85 no.33

T-34-85 located in Kharkiv as a monument in front of the Kharkiv Higher Tank Command School.

 

Rank IV

Spoiler

M-18-T55

Bosnian modification of M18/T-55 utilizing T-55 hull with M18 turret.

 

OT-62D

Czechoslovak modified BTR-50 APC, OT-62 was armed with an 82mm T-21 recoilless rifle. The OT-62D has an additional 82mm BZK vz.59 recoilless rifle mounted on the roof. The top speed was 60 kph.

 

LOV RAK 24/128

Croatian rocket launcher vehicle based on LOV APCs which itself was based on TK-130 T-7 4x4 chassis. The launcher was placed in the back with 24 missiles ready to fire and one reload. The top speed was 100 kph.

 

M18A2

Extensive upgrade of the M18 made by Bosnian company for Venezuela. The upgrade include new powerpack, new FCS including IR sight

 

 

Rank V

Spoiler

SMK 120 RAK

Polish wheeled 120mm mortar system. The system is able to achieve ROF of 6-8 rdspm and top speed is 80 kph. I believe such vehicles could provide quite interesting gameplay.

 

RM-70

Czechoslovak built the BM-21 Grad system utilizing the Tatra 8x8 chassis with armored cab. It also has one additional quick reload available.

 

BWP-2000

Polish development of new IFV to replace BMP-1. It is based on the SPG Kalina chassis. The main armament consists of 60mm OTO Melara cannon and two TOW-2 launchers fitted to the OTO Melara T60/70A turret, turret is also equipped with CITV. The top speed is 70 kph.

 

BVP-M2

The BVP-M2 is a prototype of heavy modernisation of BVP-1 (BMP-1) by Czech company Excalibur Army utilizing Slovak Turra 30 turret. The hull is uparmored to STANAG Level 3. 

 

 

Rank VI

Spoiler

KBV-VR Pandur II

Is command vehicle version of the Pandur IFV, it is unable to use the Spike-LR launcher. There are also different versions of the Czech Pandur one being KBV-PZLOK  which is a reconnaissance version equipped with telescopic thermal sight and radar. 

 

T-55M8A2 Typhoon

Is Ukrainian upgrade to T-55 made for the Peruvian army. It includes a new 125mm gun with autoloader, engine and new ERA improving the vehicle protection. The top speed is 75 kph.

 

T-64BV (Zaslin)

Ukrainian T-64BV equipped with Zaslin APS capable of intercepting both ATGMs and APFSDS.

 

BMP-64

Ukrainian IFV prototype based on T-64 chassis, boasting good protection for an IFV. It is armed with 30mm cannon and Barrier ATGM launchers. The top speed is 60 kph. 

 

Lazanski IFV

Serbian prototype of wheeled IFV developed from Lazar 3 but having better protection. It is armed with a Russian made RWCS module, the same as one on 2S38 but with one less thermal station.  

 

T-72M2 Moderna

T-72M2 Moderna moved from the Soviet/Russian tree.

 

BMPT Strazh

Ukrainian BMPT based on T-64 hull but with new turret armed with two 30mm ZTM-2 cannons and two Barrier ATGM launchers and thermals.

 

 

Rank VII - event/squadroon vehicles

Spoiler

T-84-120 "Yatagan"

Ukrainian MBT prototype developed by KMDB based on T-84 Oplot but armed with new 120mm KBM-2 gun and completely new bustle autoloader compatible with NATO standard rounds while being able to fire Konus ATGM. Gunner has access to thermals and the protection is enhanced by the Nozh ERA and Varta (Shtora-1) APS.

 

M-95 Cobra

Croatian tank destroyer prototype based on M-84A4 hull and telescopic ATGM launcher able to fire Konkurs ATGM. The telescopic launcher and sights can be raised up to 12 metres. Only one missile is ready to fire.

 

 

 

I tried to avoid copy paste and non domestic vehicles as much as possible and I also tried to avoid repetition of very similar vehicles as much as possible. And I am well aware that the starting TT wont have nowhere near as many vehicles as I outlined here so here is an illustration highlighting the vehicles which could be in the starting TT.

 

Spoiler

 

If you have any questions or vehicles you want to suggest I will be very happy to reply. Thank you for your feedback.  As to why I am posting my suggestion here it is because my original was denied because it was too simmilar to this suggestion.

 

 

 

[eleks12 1,079]

@Shadow__CZ nice post

 

I can try to update the OP with some of you're content when i get home in the coming days if you’re interrested? Since i haven’t updated the Intermarium suggestion for years.

[Shadow__CZ 2,198]

2 hours ago, eleks12 said:

@Shadow__CZ nice post

 

I can try to update the OP with some of you're content when i get home in the coming days if you’re interrested? Since i haven’t updated the Intermarium suggestion for years.

I don´t think that is really necessary but if you want to I have no issue with you doing so.