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Sprengbombe Cylindrisch & Spezialbombe 2500 (SB & SC 2500)


Chomusuke1
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Bump. This is getting silly now. What do you want, gaijin? More info, pics, donations, 1 gal of blood, 1/2 a soul, whatever.... to get a standard/common bomb used by the Luftwaffe into this game?

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15 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

Bump. This is getting silly now. What do you want, gaijin? More info, pics, donations, 1 gal of blood, 1/2 a soul, whatever.... to get a standard/common bomb used by the Luftwaffe into this game?

A common bomb on uncommon Ju 288s and He 177s prone to engine fires. Sure. Why don't we model the inaccuracy of the German bombsights vs the Norden Bombsight?

 

German Bombers as of now have some of the most forgiving BRs, speed, defensive armament, and bombload.

 

If anything, the US and Allied Bombers require a more extensive BR decrease/shift and/or increase in bombload.

 

Many of the allied Bombers just have much higher BRs/German Bombers have lower BRs than needed. And with the max bomb bay load of the B-17 and others not modeled (it's 7600lbs in the bomb bay total and wing racks aren't allowed to have the 4000lb bombs), I don't see why German Bombers need theirs increased when they are already doing better.

 

So don't add these now. Maybe add them later when US/Allied Bombers are up to scratch/buffed, I do fully support ideas like these when circumstances allow and I'd like to see all Bombers get their niche.

Edited by ColdMatches
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On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 21:53, ColdMatches said:

A common bomb on uncommon Ju 288s and He 177s prone to engine fires. Sure.

 

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7HndyG5.jpg


FAbmbaA.jpg

 

On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 21:53, ColdMatches said:

German bombsights vs the Norden Bombsight?

 

AnNQQye.jpg

 

On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 21:53, ColdMatches said:

German Bombers as of now have some of the most forgiving BRs, speed, defensive armament, and bombload

 

Most of the current German bombers in the game are woefully incorrect in terms of speed, armament, and especially bombload. These guy(s) did all the homework + extra credit but no action was ever taken by gaijin. It is a shame that all the links have since died and no answer to PMs:

 

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/33253-common-luftwaffe-bomber-payloads-vs-war-thunder-bomber-payloads-pic-heavy/&do=findComment&comment=6984843

 

On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 21:53, ColdMatches said:

And with the max bomb bay load of the B-17 and others not modeled I don't see why German Bombers need theirs increased when they are already doing better

 

No one is asking for max bomb bay load for the Germans at this time...yet. All that is wanted here is the SC &/or SB 2500 bombs. After that specific bomb is added, then we can have a nice discussion about how the max bombload for an He 111 H-6 is  3,600 kg  or that of the He 177 A-5 is 7,200 kg or that of the Do 217 E/K/M is 4,000 kg *** and not a mere 2,500 kg or two

 

***Max load of 4 x 1,000 on the 217 is already modeled in the game, amazingly

Edited by Chomusuke1
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41 minutes ago, Chomusuke1 said:

1943-October 1944, Where the Luftwaffe basically was already getting pushed back and broken up. And with Eric Brown the RN pilot flying the He 177A-5 version commenting on its fragility (which seems to be the opposite in game, its rather tanky) and cumbersome controls I doubt it got that much better

 

There was ~1.1k of He 177 made, ~2k of Do 217 made and ~5k of He-111 made. 

 

There was ~11k of B-17s made, and ~18k of B-24s made. The B-17 at least was a much more successful design able to take a large portion of hits while the He-177 only materialized later into the war, and made little effort. I don't feel the need to give more performance to such lesser produced bombers like the 217, 177, or 264(prototype), when the mass produced and successful B-17s and B-24s are suffering a lot more as of now. That is all.

 

Point is still the same. Don't add these now. Maybe add them later when US/Allied Bombers are up to scratch/buffed, I do fully support ideas like these when circumstances allow and I'd like to see all Bombers get their niche.

Edited by ColdMatches
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1 hour ago, ColdMatches said:

Where the Luftwaffe basically was already getting pushed back

Moving the goal post here. Getting pushed back has nothing to do with your initial claim alleging of engine fires

1 hour ago, ColdMatches said:

Brown the RN pilot flying the He 177A-5 version commenting on its fragility

Is he a German? For all he knew, he could have thought that he was flying in an A-0 or A-1 (since the A-5 was the variant that introduced structural strengthening)

1 hour ago, ColdMatches said:

I don't feel the need to give more performance to such lesser produced bombers like the 217, 177, or 264

It has nothing to do with feelings. It is about getting the thing/pixel/model in the game to emulate what is written in its actual aircraft manual, something that exclusively seems to magically occur on soviet aircraft at the expense of every other faction (Example: their 22 loadouts for the Il-2 alone vs the poor Hs 129 B)

 

Edited by Chomusuke1
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6 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

Moving the goal post here. Getting pushed back has nothing to do with your initial claim alleging of engine fires

Is he a German? For all he knew, he could have thought that he was flying in an A-0 or A-1 (since the A-5 was the variant that introduced structural strengthening)

It has nothing to do with feelings. It is about getting the thing/pixel/model in the game to emulate what is written in its actual aircraft manual, something that exclusively seems to magically occur on soviet aircraft at the expense of every other faction (Example: their 22 loadouts for the Il-2 alone vs the poor Hs 129 B)

 

Captain Eric Brown test flew more aircraft than anyone in history, including majority of German warbirds. If he says it feels fragile it probably was compared to allied types. The only thing strengthened on the A-5 where the wings, which allowed to carry more ordnance on them. Also majority of WW2 planes in game are missing load outs not just Germany. Though I doubt it will get fix anytime soon as Gaijin’s priority is High Tier vehicles. Since that’s where all the money and players are. Finally only 2 at most of those 22 load outs are useful.

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12 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

Moving the goal post here. Getting pushed back has nothing to do with your initial claim alleging of engine fires

No, my initial claim was that this bomb is not needed right now. You literally just edited your previous post, so who is changing arguments here?

 

12 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

Is he a German? For all he knew, he could have thought that he was flying in an A-0 or A-1 (since the A-5 was the variant that introduced structural strengthening)

What does being German have to do with it? It was the A-5. You don't have wonder weapons.

 

12 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

It has nothing to do with feelings. It is about getting the thing/pixel/model in the game to emulate what is written in its actual aircraft manual, something that exclusively seems to magically occur on soviet aircraft at the expense of every other faction (Example: their 22 loadouts for the Il-2 alone vs the poor Hs 129 B)

Yet they are missing the PTAB, over one million plus dropped, compared to a petty thousands that I can say about these big German bombs.

 

12 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

Max load of 4 x 1,000 on the 217 is already modeled in the game, amazingly

See? You already have more. I can also discuss how the German Bombers are faster, have more bombload, and have better defensive armament RIGHT NOW can I? But I won't.

 

Seeing as you are intolerant to other nations besides Germany getting any sense of having a competent bomber. 

 

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1 hour ago, ColdMatches said:

No, my initial claim was that this bomb is not needed right now. You literally just edited your previous post, so who is changing arguments here?

 

What does being German have to do with it? It was the A-5. You don't have wonder weapons.

 

Yet they are missing the PTAB, over one million plus dropped, compared to a petty thousands that I can say about these big German bombs.

 

See? You already have more. I can also discuss how the German Bombers are faster, have more bombload, and have better defensive armament RIGHT NOW can I? But I won't.

 

Seeing as you are intolerant to other nations besides Germany getting any sense of having a competent bomber. 

 

The problem is that Gaijn constantly denys the German tech tree historical accuracy. The bombers being fast is simply apart of the doctrine. To deny ordnance based on that is ridiculous. Its not like bombers are the only thing missing ordnance. Gaijn could have at least added one sturmbocke or even the fw 190 A-9, but they didn't. Instead they focus on adding non-German aircraft at top tier.

 

Also Brown mentioned little on actual fragility. He was worried about controlling the aircraft because the controls were light. When he went into a stall with flaps lowered at 140kph and lower there was buffeting. There was nothing about any actual structural damage and could have been simply pilot error.

 

Edited by WolfFang2003
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On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 08:32, jd_hog77 said:

 Captain Eric Brown test flew more aircraft than anyone in history, including majority of German warbirds

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 14:03, ColdMatches said:

It was the A-5

 

My point was if the British were fully capable of confusing the Prinz Eugen for the Bismarck, the Fw 190 for the Curtiss P-36, the He 100 for the "He 113", even going as far as claiming "He 113" kills, the Panzer IV H for a Tiger I tank, even confusing the long Panzer IVs themselves, labeling them all 'MK IV Specials' regardless of L/43, L/48, 50 mm, or 80 mm armor then of course they are fully capable of confusing an He 177 A-0, A-1, A-3...etc for an A-5/R2...because they are not German and are unaware of German model designations variants, ausführung, rüstsätze, umrüst-bausätze...etc

 

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 08:32, jd_hog77 said:

The only thing strengthened on the A-5 where the wings

 

And the empennage which enabled a

1.) 20 mm MG 151 cannon to be fitted in the tail

2.) Larger, upright heckstand with more armor to replace the former prone position

 

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 08:32, jd_hog77 said:

Finally only 2 at most of those 22 load outs are useful

 

Then they should remove all of them but those 2 so their craft can be just as disadvantaged as ours are

 

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 14:03, ColdMatches said:

No, my initial claim was that this bomb is not needed right

 

Your initial claim was:

1.) uncommon Ju 288s and He 177s prone to engine fires

2.) inaccuracy of the German bombsights

3.) German Bombers...most forgiving BRs, speed, defensive armament, and bombload

4.) max bomb bay load of the B-17 and others not modeled...don't see why German Bombers need theirs increased

 

Once those were disproved, you started throwing around production numbers and terms such as wonder weapons even though a standard bomb such as the SC/SB 2500 is no wonder weapon. It is a bomb, a bomb that is inexplicably missing and is impacting the bomb loadout options on most German bombers in the game. The same points #3 & 4 were also thrown around by contrarians in an attempt to keep the SC 1800 out of the game until gaijin finally got off their **** and put it in with patch 1.77

 

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 14:03, ColdMatches said:

You literally just edited your previous post, so who is changing arguments here?

 

If you were paying attention, I mentioned that 'the xxxx forum ate my post and that I was re-editing'. These forums are broken. Linking images from imgur, direct links/hyperlinks, linking or embedding videos, or even quoting someone does not work too well here. Sometimes, it takes multiple attempts for stuff to actually post properly. If you were to view my profile with its 32 pages of submissions, count how many of my entries are edited. I estimate 85% of them are

 

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 14:03, ColdMatches said:

Yet they are missing the PTAB, over one million plus dropped, compared to a petty thousands that I can say about these big German bombs

 

The PTAB is not a SC 2500 bomb! If you want to drag the PTAB in here, then the Germans are missing the SD4/HL in the game. Using your argument, the allies receive the AN-M66A2, FAB-3000M-46, FAB-5000, & H.C. 4,000 lb Mk.II, used in petty numbers, yet the Germans are missing the SD4/HL, which was their standard aerial anti-tank weapon dropped by the hundreds of thousands

 

On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2021 at 14:03, ColdMatches said:

I can also discuss how the German Bombers are faster, have more bombload, and have better defensive armament RIGHT NOW can I?

 

If you are talking about German bombers in the game, then you cannot because you would be proven wrong. The very existence of this thread and others in the bug report section proves you wrong

 

Edited by Chomusuke1
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Language guys, language

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@Chomusuke1 Yeah, I saw your recent posts. I'd like to see these return, I think I remember them way back in the day. Those are what they call Blockbuster Bomb or Demolition Bombs. A modern example is like the BLU-82 (Pushed out of the back of a C-130). The Soviet Pe-8's Fab - 5000 is the only one of this type left in game. I assume they removed the others because of Ground Forces. They should add them back for Air Battles at least.

 

The British 8,000-lb HC and 12,000-lb HC are WWII era 

 

 :yes_yes_yes:

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Not sure what you mean? There was no guy not wanting historically accurate changes to German bombers. There is, however, enough contradicting information on the SC 2000 bomb, that it makes no sense of pursuing it at this time.

 

I did receive the book "German Air-Dropped Weapons to 1945" finally, though have only skimmed through it so far, and have not found any mention of the SC 2000, except it being listed in a list at the end of the book with basic information and drawings. That is the only place I saw it mentioned in the book at all, and the SC 2000 entry is missing explosive weight & filler information, and states that it was only produced in small numbers:

Spoiler

744789643_SC2000(book).jpg.2a53c82f0b396

This drawing of the SC 2000, does not match the pictures @Chomusuke1 has posted lately, with that bomb style matching more to the SB 1000 or SC 2500 in the book:

Spoiler

1144927808_SB1000(book).jpg.bbbbb98e35c6

 

1152770358_SC2500(Book).jpg.991d20e0b528

Interesting is the statement at the bottom of the SC 2500 entry that states that it has also been referenced with a bomb weight of 1,950kg, so rounded up 2,000kg, meaning that this can be the reason why those pictures are labelled for the SC 2000, while in fact those are SC 2500. Then again in the pictures where the people are sitting on top, the dimensions appear to match more the SB 1000 instead of the SC 2500, which as stated in the screenshot was produced only as experimental models.

 

Best regards,

Phil

Edited by Target1331
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About the Ab 500 and 250, how does it work? I have read some about it but i didnt quite understand it. Does one half pop off, the bombs fall out and the other half stays on the plane and it looks like the cluster bomb dropping like in Battlefield 1 or does the whole thing drop, seperate mid air in 2 pices and the bombs fall out? 

The latter one would be harder to use and implement imo.

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7 hours ago, Ghostmaxi said:

About the Ab 500 and 250, how does it work? I have read some about it but i didnt quite understand it. Does one half pop off, the bombs fall out and the other half stays on the plane and it looks like the cluster bomb dropping like in Battlefield 1 or does the whole thing drop, seperate mid air in 2 pices and the bombs fall out? 

The latter one would be harder to use and implement imo.

as far as i remember it seperated midair

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