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Polish Ground Forces Tech Tree


PikPikker
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Poland in War Thunder  

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  1. 1. Would you like to see Polish tech tree in War Thunder?

    • Yes!
      355
    • No!
      112


11 hours ago, RazNaRok said:

 

T-34-88 is fake of WG, for consoles.

 

 

Thank you for your research, you are making really good points. I will make some last checking, and most likely I will remove T-34-88. :salute: 

On the other side, KwK 36 could fit the turret of T-34-85, and as I wrote in an older post, such conversion was done in USSR.

Also placing T-44 is a good idea to make the tree interesting and fill that BR gap between T-34-85 and T-54!

P.S. T-34-88 removed, T-44 and SU-85 added.

Edited by PikPikker

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On 16/12/2019 at 17:56, PikPikker said:

 

Thank you for your research, you are making really good points. I will make some last checking, and most likely I will remove T-34-88. :salute: 

On the other side, KwK 36 could fit the turret of T-34-85, and as I wrote in an older post, such conversion was done in USSR.

Also placing T-44 is a good idea to make the tree interesting and fill that BR gap between T-34-85 and T-54!

P.S. T-34-88 removed, T-44 and SU-85 added.

Wait... When was that conversion done? Can I see? Is it like the Czech 75mm Tiger?

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8 hours ago, Solarmod said:

Wait... When was that conversion done? Can I see? Is it like the Czech 75mm Tiger?

Unfortunately, there is no photo or even drawing evidence left. Only a picture from the Soviet archives (found by Yuri Pasholok and Igor Zheltov):

Spoiler

1217936_original.jpg

Let me translate it:

"T-34 88 mm. 73rd Tank Battalion.

Arrived on 15.05.1946 from overhaul in factory №27 in Leningrad (St. Petersburg)." 

 

So yes, at least one T-34-88 existed in USSR. :lol:

And answering your last question - no, it has another story in comparison with Czech Tiger I 75 mm. This Tiger mounted new Czech A18 gun for testing purposes, but this T-34 mounted 88 mm gun, seems like, because its 85 mm original gun could not be repaired. Maybe I'm guessing wrong, but there was no need in testing 88 mm gun in USSR anyway.

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On 20/12/2019 at 02:11, PikPikker said:

...Only a picture from the Soviet archives (found by Yuri Pasholok and Igor Zheltov):

  Hide contents

1217936_original.jpg

 

 

Ermmm

 

Of course, you realize Yuri is the main historical consultant of WG WoT...

And some tanks in WoT / Like the supposed T-34/88 in the console version /, had been deliberately fabricated with a blink-eye at historical events ...

Don't You wonder why it was just Yuri who could find the document... a typical documents He presents come from the Central Archives of the Russian Federation

and those have the form of official reports somewhat eroded by the tooth of time. If the converted tank realy come from the №27

Then why this report seems like a torn paper from a scribble that anyone could have prepared, should it not be in the form of an official factory

report made with the help of a typewriter and supplemented by a photo or sketches /like a typical ЦАМО РФ one/ ?

 

Just a Example ...

The Story of WoT Polish mediums tanks equipped with auxiliary water cooled heavy machine guns in heavy armor shells, while the original project

assumed the use of lighter air cooled heavy machine guns mounted in universal ball mantle of eng. Napiórkowski.

 

Developers / including Yuri / when asked about this significant difference replied: at this time in Poland there were no air-cooled heavy machine guns...

So our response was: At the time / ad.1937 in response to the KSUS resolution / when were carried out projects of medium tanks, Poland already

has a good quality air-cooled heavy machine guns as the: Hothkiss wz.25, Hothkiss wz.30, Type-C Heavy Machine Gun / and the first two were

used in TK tankettes, Renault FT, 7TP double turret/...

Shortly after presenting our opinion, including several other important errors in the model designs the developers are no longer insistent on the lack of appropriate weapons ... they just state: we designed the tanks what they could look like in mass production / probably not to introduce significant changes to the 3d models ... /

 

So...

No real photage or drawings... no conversion made, just a another fake for WoT...

Edited by RazNaRok
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50 minutes ago, RazNaRok said:

 

Ermmm

 

Of course, you realize Yuri is the main historical consultant of WG WoT...

And some tanks in WoT / Like the supposed T-34/88 in the console version /, had been deliberately fabricated with a blink-eye at historical events ...

Don't You wonder why it was just Yuri who could find the document... a typical documents He presents come from the Central Archives of the Russian Federation

those have the form of official reports somewhat eroded by the tooth of time, why this one seems like a torn paper from a scribble that anyone could have prepared?

 

So...

No real photage or drawings... no conversion made, just a fake for WoT...

 

Of course he could have been mistaken or something, but I don't really think he would ever fabricate a fake tank for any game. And the reason for why there is no other evidence for this T-34-88 may be simple: this 88 mm gun was installed just in case to repair a T-34-85, not to create another tank type or something. Noone paid any attention on it. And, honestly, we do not know if it was able to shoot.

 

By the time all these Polish paper tanks arrived to that game, Yuri was not the main person who controlled that, he was far away from that already. Polish tree there was really awful, but Yuri was no longer able to do anything with it. I mean, he did not like it as well. By the way, if I'm not mistaken, there is still no T-34-88 in that game.

 

Well, maybe this tank is a fake for some reason, but anyways, I'm not making a suggestion on it, so this is not a big problem here. ;)

Edited by PikPikker
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5 hours ago, PikPikker said:

 

Yuri was not the main person who controlled that, he was far away from that already.

Polish tree there was really awful, but Yuri was no longer able to do anything with it. I mean, he did not like it as well.

 

Interesting...

some of us had a much different impression, maybe it was wrong, as it turned out later ... although Yuri was famous for his very specific approach to the case of Polish community.

As it turned out later in PM with Yuri... they could no longer make anything with it as the polish community coordinators didn't pass any of our information to devs.

Most information devs have come from time when we were in co-op with Silent Stalker but when he leave to AW... information flow stopped.

 

 

P.S.

WG did release T-34/88 but only for PS4 game version.

According to WG the origin was a damaged T-34/85 captured by and refited with 88 by germans:

For the armies of World War II pressing captured vehicles into service was fairly commonplace. There were unconfirmed reports of a German unit refitting a captured T-34-85 with an 88mm gun. Allegedly this tank saw fighting with the 7th Panzer Division in East Prussia. Hence, the concept for the T-34-88 was born.

Edited by RazNaRok
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I would suggest the addition of Lithuanian and Latvian WW2 era vehicles into the Polish tech tree through their shared history and culture. The following for each nation.

Latvia:

  • Vickers Light Tank M1937 (40mm 2-pounder)

Lithuania:

  • Landsverk L-181 (20mm Oerlikon)
  • CKD LTL (20mm Oerlikon)

 

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=153645

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/06/praga-ltl-and-pzw-39-tanks-for-neutrals.html

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4 minutes ago, Private_Wolk said:

I would suggest the addition of Lithuanian and Latvian WW2 era vehicles into the Polish tech tree through their shared history and culture. The following for each nation.

Latvia:

  • Vickers Light Tank M1937 (40mm 2-pounder)

Lithuania:

  • Landsverk L-181 (20mm Oerlikon)
  • CKD LTL (20mm Oerlikon)

 

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=153645

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/06/praga-ltl-and-pzw-39-tanks-for-neutrals.html

 

It's a pretty interesting suggestion, I mean, I never thought about these vehicles this way.

Thus I hope to see what other people think about this point, and if most of them agree, I will immediately add these tanks to the Polish tree. :good:

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1 minute ago, PikPikker said:

 

It's a pretty interesting suggestion, I mean, I never thought about these vehicles this way.

Thus I hope to see what other people think about this point, and if most of them agree, I will immediately add these tanks to the Polish tree. :good:

I would further add that you are missing both the R35 and the H39 for the Polish. Interestingly enough an order was made for the famous S35 but it was declined. Perhaps that might make another good addition. 

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1 hour ago, Private_Wolk said:

...and the H39 for the Polish. Interestingly enough an order was made for the famous S35 but it was declined. Perhaps that might make another good addition. 

 

Both in game already

  • Char léger d'accompagnement 1939 R
  • Char de cavalerie SOMUA 1935 S

 

Polish forces have enough interesting vehicles for the first era... no need for clones here...

However a Char légere model 1935R /Renault R-35/ is worth of addition.

Edited by RazNaRok
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1 hour ago, Private_Wolk said:

I would further add that you are missing both the R35 and the H39 for the Polish. Interestingly enough an order was made for the famous S35 but it was declined. Perhaps that might make another good addition. 

 

This is a good idea, thank you! I added all these tanks as premiums :salute:

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2 minutes ago, PikPikker said:

 

This is a good idea, thank you! I added all these tanks as premiums :salute:

 

Char légere model 1935R /Renault R-35/

 

French tree doesn't have this vehicle neither any other tree including german captured... so it will make a good standard vehicle candidate.

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15 minutes ago, RazNaRok said:

 

Char légere model 1935R /Renault R-35/

 

French tree doesn't have this vehicle neither any other tree including german captured... so it will make a good standard vehicle candidate.

 

I suppose it will come to the French tree (anyway.. it should be there as a production French vehicle), and maybe even earlier than the whole Polish tree. That is why it does not differ from Polish H35 and S35, that should go as premiums (to free the main tree from unnecessary clones). 

Edited by PikPikker
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7 hours ago, FinlandSupreme said:

PL-01 should be event. Its just an mockup tank.

 

Its time just has not come yet (I mean, it is going to be put into production one day). :) And looks like there are no rank 7 premium tanks in the game.

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14 hours ago, PikPikker said:

 

Its time just has not come yet (I mean, it is going to be put into production one day). :) And looks like there are no rank 7 premium tanks in the game.

I doubt that Poland would waste money on such a tank. They already have 368 operational tanks, most being T-72´s and others Leopard 2A4´s and 2A5´s.

Most of these prototypes fail in development. + I think the PT-16 would be more economically viable for Poland, as they have tons and tons of T-72 tanks left in storage and in use.

 

To be exact Poland has 823 T-72 based tanks. 

PT-16 being upgraded PT-91 Twardy, heavily upgraded, literally. Tons of German composite slapped on it and it still can be upgraded by slapping more Polish ERAWA ERA.

It would be more viable for the game too as its in prototype instead of an mockup. Well as an premium.

 

Tho I would love to see the Polish tree for their unique T - something tank modifications and the Finnish Patria AMVs (Rosomak).

Edited by FinlandSupreme
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On 06/01/2020 at 19:23, Private_Wolk said:

I would suggest the addition of Lithuanian and Latvian WW2 era vehicles into the Polish tech tree through their shared history and culture. The following for each nation.

Latvia:

  • Vickers Light Tank M1937 (40mm 2-pounder)

Lithuania:

  • Landsverk L-181 (20mm Oerlikon)
  • CKD LTL (20mm Oerlikon)

 

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=153645

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/06/praga-ltl-and-pzw-39-tanks-for-neutrals.html

 

These tanks (except the LTL because it is already in my Czechoslovak tree) have been added :salute:

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On 09/11/2019 at 19:46, Sp15 said:

sure they could change their mind about poland but only if there was a substantial ammount of original vhehicles on each rank and they had the infomation to impliment those vehicles properly (ie first hand archive information, sales brochures etc). As things stand though poland has original vehicles for rank 1 and a few like ANDERS at the higher ranks, with most of the tree being either clones, lisence produced, or lightly modified vehicles from USSR, Germans or Finland. there is also a CV90 with a plastic bodykit as your top tier light tank because as far as i know the PL-01 is just a publicity stunt and was never a functional vehicle. 

Well we now know that that is irrelevant due to the Chinese tech tree. Would still like an eastern Europe tech tree which contains Poland, Czechoslovakia, maybe Hungary Romania or even Greece

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5 hours ago, PikPikker said:

 

These tanks (except the LTL because it is already in my Czechoslovak tree) have been added :salute:

The LTL was never intended for Czechoslovak use however, it was an export model built at the request of Switzerland and Lithuania. I would also suggest adding the Vickers Mk E Type B. In Polish service the tank was given a unique modification of its filtration system which was marked by large air intakes at the rear. 

 

vickers2b.jpg

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

The LTL was never intended for Czechoslovak use however, it was an export model built at the request of Switzerland and Lithuania. I would also suggest adding the Vickers Mk E Type B. In Polish service the tank was given a unique modification of its filtration system which was marked by large air intakes at the rear. 

 

Alright, now they all are in the tree :)

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  • 3 months later...

I don't think we should push for independent tech trees for every minor country in Europe (or the world) as many of these would be mostly the same vehicles as already in game with a few unique ones most of this would be in tier one or two with a few acception.

My suggestion would be to push for a "East European" (or similarly named) tech tree but even with this the main problem still stands as most of the unique vehicle is low tier but a tech tree like that would be more likely but even then there's a slim chance we would get any of these

As a Hungarian I would love to go out and YEET 105's at T-34's from a 43M Zrínyi but it's unlikely we would get an independent Hungarian tech tree anytime soon or at all

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

This thread probably died long time ago, but will post anyway. (beating dead horse is always the best)

Knowing Poland can't have decent Aviation tech tree without HUGE copy/paste I was kinda interested what ground forces can muster and... was pleasantly surprised about 75 mm PF621L, never heard about it. Such a nice little vechicle. Thanks for Yours work on all these tech trees!

Will not comment much on tree itself just because I don't eve know if OP will even respond but... I will write something anyway.

1. ZET-1, sounded familiar but then the picture just wasn't right so I checked Yours source:

Quote

The ZET-1 (zashchita ekrannaya tankovaya) was a Polish project to make T-54s and T-62s more ATGM resistant in 1964. This involved large screens on the gun and hull. The cage screens mounted on the main gun were folded when unused and unfolded when in combat. The aluminum (I know what aluminum means to WG) screens on the hull were also foldable.

First of all, "zashchita ekrannaya tankovaya" is not even in Polish. Then the description does not even fit the picture itself. Large screens on the "gun", unfolded when in combat. No clue how would You do that with screens on "ZET-1" picture. Then I looked up about ZET-1 itself, and it turned up to be soviet invention being tank "umbrella".

Spoiler

3_98761.jpg

Stil, apparently tank You used is still Polish T-54 with additional protective screens named "T-54 Produkt S2". RazNaRok wrote about it: https://live.warthunder.com/post/887066/en/

Nothing important, just me being attached to details.

 

2. Honestly, I may be just super dumb but tree is kinda hard to read. I understand we have SPG/ SPAA/ Main tan line/ Light vechicles. What I mean, adding Krak and Promet into light line while classifying them as SPAA was kinda confusing honestly and made me think why even bother adding them... Or for example WWO Wilk being in SPG while classified as light tank. Kinda all over the place. Sill I guess it comes down to personal preference.

 

3.

On 06/01/2020 at 10:23, Private_Wolk said:

I would suggest the addition of Lithuanian and Latvian WW2 era vehicles into the Polish tech tree through their shared history and culture. The following for each nation.

Latvia:

  • Vickers Light Tank M1937 (40mm 2-pounder)

Lithuania:

  • Landsverk L-181 (20mm Oerlikon)
  • CKD LTL (20mm Oerlikon)

 

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=153645

http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/06/praga-ltl-and-pzw-39-tanks-for-neutrals.html

Why adding it to Poland? Baltic states and Poland did not cooperated that much at this time... I sense strong Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth vibes. Nothing against that but its kinda fictional... Even if added they should be either premium or in their respective lines imo.

 

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On 07/01/2020 at 01:04, PikPikker said:
On 06/01/2020 at 17:03, FinlandSupreme said:

PL-01 should be event. Its just an mockup tank.

 

Its time just has not come yet (I mean, it is going to be put into production one day). :) And looks like there are no rank 7 premium tanks in the game.

You have more good will then company behind PL-01. That "thing" could be added, but only as April Fool premium to SWEDISH tree. Not only its armor is "composite styrofoam", but its placed on CV90... even when they have almost identical copy with Anders/UMPG platfrom... Really that thing is a mess not worth to even mention. If You want something similar then I belive there was showcased Anders with 120 mm (don't remeber turret) that was workrked on within "Light tank programme".

 

There are some vechicles misiing that would be worth adding, some things would need to be adjusted etc. Not gonna write all of it since I don't even belive I will get a respond from this old topic. Just needed to metion ZET-1 since it kinda bothered me. (and PF621L, THANKS AGAIN!) Poland without big copy/paste in tier II-III can't be made, and while later on it would become more interesting, then having poor Aviation with even more copy/paste kinda eliminate potential Polish tree. :salute:

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7 hours ago, Doglio said:

 

Why adding it to Poland? Baltic states and Poland did not cooperated that much at this time... I sense strong Polish-Lithuania Commonwealth vibes. Nothing against that but its kinda fictional... Even if added they should be either premium or in their respective lines imo.

Estonia was added to the proposed Finnish tech tree and it felt appropriate to give Poland the rest of the Baltic states out of courtesy. This is probably one of the few opportunities to represent them in War Thunder and I don't believe in the philosophy of making everything a premium.

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