Polish Ground Forces Tech Tree

[Monke6000@live 141]

we still have the pt 16 and 17 there is still hopr for update "baba yaga"

Edited February 25, 2021 by Monke6000@live

[HufnagelPista 135]

2 hours ago, Monke6000@live said:

considered condensing the tree to a single line (with some extra spaas or tds like sa)and putting it into ussr

Do you really think, the Russian tree need any foreign vehicles? 

2 hours ago, PlanyKaanere said:

All four nations added after the Open Beta Test have had some of their vehicles added to other trees before becomming an standalone nation. Italy was part of the German research tree, France had the D.520 as a British event vehicle, China the Type 62 and 63 in the USSR and Sweden the premium Strv.81 in the British tree.

You are right. But the mentioned vehicles was added years before their own trees was added. And as Bagniewski said, the Leo2PL should be one of the last vehicle in a Polish/V4 tree, not something in the mid tiers. And the 2pl will be always a top tier machine

[RazNaRok 616]

5 minutes ago, HufnagelPista said:

...But the mentioned vehicles was added years before their own trees was added. And as Bagniewski said, the Leo2PL should be one of the last vehicle in a Polish/V4 tree, not something in the mid tiers. And the 2pl will be always a top tier machine

 

Are You People panicking not too much?

 

The Leo2PL prototype from 2018 was provided by Germans... so let it stay in German tech tree and be German one...

 

Any other Leo2PL from series production of the ZM-Bumar Łabędy could be used for grindable part of the future polish tech tree

What also still shouldn't hold GJ from puting another customized one to the premium or the squadron shelf...

[Monke6000@live 141]

26 minutes ago, HufnagelPista said:

Do you really think, the Russian tree need any foreign vehicles? 

You are right. But the mentioned vehicles was added years before their own trees was added. And as Bagniewski said, the Leo2PL should be one of the last vehicle in a Polish/V4 tree, not something in the mid tiers. And the 2pl will be always a top tier machine

you would rather have it in german tree  polish mbts fit the ussr gameplay style and they could use some tank destroyers/ifvs

 

at high tiers

Edited February 25, 2021 by Monke6000@live

[Bagniewski 36]

18 hours ago, RazNaRok said:

 

Are You People panicking not too much?

 

The Leo2PL prototype from 2018 was provided by Germans... so let it stay in German tech tree and be German one...

 

Any other Leo2PL from series production of the ZM-Bumar Łabędy could be used for grindable part of the future polish tech tree

What also still shouldn't hold GJ from puting another customized one to the premium or the squadron shelf...

 

What are the differences between the 2018 one and the one introduced by Poland?

[RazNaRok 616]

12 hours ago, Bagniewski said:

 

What are the differences between the 2018 one and the one introduced by Poland?

 

Honestly speaking... This doesn't interest me so much...

Modern MBT's are not My point of interest, I've prefer the vehicles of 30's.

 

I suggest You to get acquainted with the content of the articles written by Andrzej Kiński:

• Pierwszy rok programu Leopard 2PL, Wojsko i Technika 3/2017
• Modernizacja czołgów do standardu Leopard 2PL, Radar, 12/2019
• Leopard 2PL, Wojsko i Technika MSPO 2019

 

Look in those for data on:

• Leopard 2A4, rev. F6
• Leopard 2PL
• Leopard 2PLM1
• Leopard 2PLM2

Edited February 26, 2021 by RazNaRok

[Yontzee 1,676]

+1

Hope to see it in-game one day!

Edited August 14, 2021 by Yontzee

[NeXeS-PL@psn 270]

long ago Gaijin should have added a common nations tree rather than cramming individual vehicles into different trees.  The Visegrad Group or Yugoslavia are proposals that bring together several countries, which gives great opportunities for the development of the branch.  It's good that at least the Leopard 2PL already has our flag.  In the future, before the last Leopard2PL is created, it will definitely be marked as M1 M2 ... because BUMAR will already introduce improvements to those tanks that are being made in Poland.  Of course, they will not be very important in the game, but, for example, replacing communication systems with new ones is quite important on the real battlefield.

[_IvalinA_ 88]

1 hour ago, NeXeS-PL@psn said:

 It's good that at least the Leopard 2PL already has our flag.

 

It definitively shouldn't have one, Mr. Patriot

 

In my opinion, it's just a slap in the face of the Polish community, instead of the icons of the Polish army and the domestic arms industry, we get a vehicle constructed in Germany and delivered to the Polish army by a German consortium, as the limping domestic industry couldn't make anything better than yet another modernization of soviet commie relics.

 

Our ancestors are rolling over in their graves of laughing.

Edited March 13, 2021 by _IvalinA_

[GrumpyStranger 723]

11 hours ago, _IvalinA_ said:

Our ancestors are rolling over in their graves of laughing.

 

Those that would care about this have already been spinning in their graves over women's voting rights, the removal of horses from cavalary units or something equally inane.

[Bagniewski 36]

On 13/03/2021 at 11:47, NeXeS-PL@psn said:

long ago Gaijin should have added a common nations tree rather than cramming individual vehicles into different trees.  The Visegrad Group or Yugoslavia are proposals that bring together several countries, which gives great opportunities for the development of the branch.  It's good that at least the Leopard 2PL already has our flag.  In the future, before the last Leopard2PL is created, it will definitely be marked as M1 M2 ... because BUMAR will already introduce improvements to those tanks that are being made in Poland.  Of course, they will not be very important in the game, but, for example, replacing communication systems with new ones is quite important on the real battlefield.

M1 version is already introduce on tanks delivered in 2021.

[_IvalinA_ 88]

On 15/03/2021 at 10:30, Bagniewski said:

M1 version is already introduce on tanks delivered in 2021.

 

Potentially, the 2PLM1 could be the top vehicle of the both trees, the independent Polish and the Visegrad group.
Well, unfortunately, we must not forget that they were still vehicles from the trial series delivered by the German Rheinmetall, and what is worse, the introduced changes were just cosmetic from the point of view of the game and its visual models, these changes willbe not noticeable on both the visual models and in the vehicle's statistics neither in the play style.

Only those that underwent the final M2 modernization could be consider the so called "Polish vehicles".
Unfortunately, it looks like GJ with his movement spanked the Polish community and the idea of an independent technological tree, maybe even affecting the top of Visegrad group
Convincing the developer to use the M1 and the M2 as top tier vehicles will be a difficult task.

 

The time has come for a certain group of foalers trolling here and there with their split personalities to come down to earth to really stay on their toes and face the truth instead of playing the role of razor grasping drowners. The idea of a full independent Polish tree is and was doomed to failure in advance, Those foolish trolls should either focus on proven solutions and support the idea of Visegrad group tech tree or a mini trees and premium vehicles in allied trees or just be silent forever.

Edited March 21, 2021 by _IvalinA_

[NeXeS-PL@psn 270]

KTO ROSOMAK ZSSW-30

 

Remote-Controlled Turret System, armed with a 30mm ATK Mk 44 Bushmaster II automatic cannon, a Rafael Spike LR dual anti-tank guided missile launcher and a 7.62mm UKM-2000C machine gun, mounted on a chassis that RosomakTekst comes from the MILMAG Military Magazine.

 Read more at: https://www.milmag.pl/szef-sztabu-generalnej-wp-w-hsw/

[Colerend 225]

i suggest looking at MSPO military fairs in Poland. Some really interesting vehicles were proposed and some of them were actually build not just a mockup.

 

[_IvalinA_ 88]

 

5 hours ago, Colerend said:

i suggest looking at MSPO military fairs in Poland.

 

How do You think... Does the vehicles of the decline of the 20th and the beginning of the 21st century actually fit with the game's timeframe?

 

Usually most of those not... with exception like the L2PL with somehow break the rule.
These can be seen only from perspective of potencial event or premium's.

Edited March 25, 2021 by _IvalinA_

[Colerend 225]

type16, leo 2a6, t72 b3 and leo2pl you mentioned are in game so i don't think it's a problem adding new vehicles.  Some of those vehicles are a upgrade of a already existing platform like BMP 1 so i don't think it's a problem.

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

Suggestion: Rosomak VSHORAD

 

Armament 35 mm automatic gun systems.

Polish-made programmable ammo. Possibility to use sub-caliber ammunition. Armored turret.

Status: Prototype in development.

[_IvalinA_ 88]

On 29/03/2021 at 18:18, AkIvonDemolka said:

Status: Prototype in development.

 

Hmmm...

 

Oh c'mon step on the ground... shouldn't we use vehicles that really served Polish Army ??

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

3 hours ago, _IvalinA_ said:

 

Hmmm...

 

Oh c'mon step on the ground... shouldn't we use vehicles that really served Polish Army ??

Maybe so. But other countries also have prototypes in the WT trees

[_IvalinA_ 88]

 

On 06/11/2020 at 09:07, NeXeS-PL@psn said:

Each PSR-A Pilica fire unit consists of two 23-mm ZUR-23-2SP Jodek anti-aircraft guns, being a modification of the ZU-23-2, two Piorun / Grom missile launchers, as well as a computerized command post, Soła radar, observation point  and a wired and radio communication system

 

 

On 09/11/2020 at 09:26, NeXeS-PL@psn said:

You have poor information regarding this system.  If the damage range is about 5km, it is suitable for 8.0-9.0

 

Hilarious, but there are no two-piece weapon systems in the game...

[Towarzysz_Beagle@psn 26]

This is an amazing idea and one I've often thought about myself. Polish forces scattered and fought both with the Western and Eastern opponents of Germany during WW2. It was then part of the Warsaw Part before becoming part of NATO.

 

This means we could have a Polish line with an incredible variety of existing vehicles layered with domestic vehicles.

 

The OP could even flesh out the line up he's posted more. There could be a 76mm Sherman and a Firefly in there. There could also be a handful of T-54/55 variants and T-72 variants in there. I also believe Poland is modernising their fleet of Leopards to A6 standard as well.

 

I want this to happen, and not just because I'm half Polish!

[inch2000 1]

Well, Poland has enough vehicles, but what would make it even better is if we had a Pan-Eastern-Europe tech tree, rolled up with Yugoslavia, Slovakia, and Hungary. They don't have a lot of vehicles, and I would really like for them to be added into the game. It would make the Eastern European gameplay much more interesting, as Poland alone would basically be a Sweden or China-sized tree, and we all know how that plays out for lineups. These nations have plenty of vehicles for themselves, leaving the Eastern Europe tech tree with quite a few vehicles, probably on par with France, Italy, or maybe even the former British tech tree w/o South Africa. It would be nice to have plenty of lineups and representation of other minor nations.

 

See you in battle!

[GAUGAN 4]

I like the idea of a Polish tech tree, but I wouldn't exactly cry if it was included as subtree of British or Central/Eastern European common tree. I don't mind having foreign tanks (british and soviet made) in the tree either. If a tech tree somewhat similiar in spirit to the Chinese one (lots of foreign tanks mixed with domestic designs) is OK with Gaijin, then sure.

---------------------------------------

As to the hypothetical vehicle roster included by OP, the choice of many vehicles is questionable at best. Full of paper tanks and one literally plywood tank (PL-01 was a wooden mockup). Vehicles that are entirely redundant (why have TKS-D and TKD both at 1.0 with the exact same chassis and gun?). Some of them are weirdly anachronistic, like Hibernyt (a 1980s design at 4.3, that's literally the R3 situation), some are definetly out of place, like mobile artillery pieces (2S1 Gvozdika, AHS Krab, WR-40 etc.), some never actually used by polish soldiers and some entirely ommited for no real reason - like polish IS-2 or T-72 (which would tie up neatly between T-55AM and PT-91). 

The list of vehicles that have no place in polish tree is quite long. 

Landswerk I-181 (not actually in use by polish armed forces)
TKD/TKS-D/PzInz 160 (almost identical, redundant)
Praga LTL (not actually in use by polish armies)
7TP/7TP wz. 39 (almost identical, one of them is redundant)
Vickers M1937 (not actually in use by polish armies)
WB-10 (functionally a paper tank)
Somua S-35 (not actually used by polish armies. The french tank that Poland had was Renault R-35)
14TP (paper tank)
Robur ZU-2 (not in use ever)
T-34-100 (functionally a paper tank)
AHS Krab (mobile artillery)
WR-40 (mobile rocket artillery incapable of direct fire)
2S1 Gozdzik (?) (mobile artillery)
AHS Kryl (mobile artillery incapable of direct fire)
PT-94 (paper tank)
PL-01 (PLYWOOD tank)
PT-16 (paper tank with wooden mockups)
MT-LB Promet/Sopel (virtually identical to Stalagmit: the same chasis and guns)


 

Edited May 28, 2021 by GAUGAN

[_IvalinA_ 88]

On 28/05/2021 at 22:35, GAUGAN said:

TKD/TKS-D/PzInz 160 (almost identical, redundant)

 

Sometimes those "almost" make the big difference...

Unlike Strv's of the early era of Swedish ground forces tree...

Those differ much...

 

TK-D - based on the TK-3 chassis, armed with the wz.25 Pocisk 47mm infantry gun

TK-SD - based on the improved chasis of TK-S with side clutches and the idler wheel working also as driving wheel, armed with wz.37 Bofors 37mm anti-tank gun

PZInż 160 - based on the chassis of the PZInż140 Tank, armed with wz.37 Bofors 37mm anti-tank gun.

 

Those will make nice TD line with historic transition between grindable vehicles

 

 

On 28/05/2021 at 22:35, GAUGAN said:

7TP/7TP wz. 39 (almost identical, one of them is redundant)

 

One of them has different armor shape, stronger chassis, different internal module placement, thus better crew performance and survivability.

With make the perfectly candidates for both grind and premium content

 

 

On 28/05/2021 at 22:35, GAUGAN said:

WB-10 (functionally a paper tank)

 

Apart from the fact that due to construction errors, the vehicles being built could not move. It was an existing vehicle.

After the failure of the project, the vehicles became the object of legal claims, become secured and stored In the courtyard of the citadel .

Photographic documentation of them has survived, including photos made by german soldiers after Poland defense fall.

 

On 28/05/2021 at 22:35, GAUGAN said:

Somua S-35 (not actually used by polish armies.

 

Poland had placed offer to buy one, french didn't agree.

Instead Poland get R-35 and H-35.

 

Premium content

 

 

On 28/05/2021 at 22:35, GAUGAN said:

14TP (paper tank)

 

According do surviving documents in CAW (polish military archives), tank prototype was 60~80% completed or a contract was issued to build it.

Existed prototype either was destroyed by it's builders or fall into hands of occupant (after war some documents were found in abwehr archives with review of new polish tank prototype

, later those were reconstructed by polish Historian and are now known as the PzKpfw T39 (p) ).

 

Premium or grind if we have to fill the gaps between grind vehicles

 

 

On 28/05/2021 at 22:35, GAUGAN said:

T-34-100

 

The only prototype that was built was observed and described by a CIA agent, a report on it is available in public CIA records ...

Probably abandoned or scrapped, because just like soviets the Polish engineers encountered serious problems with relatively large recoil of the 100mm gun

mounted in the standard T-34/85 turret.

 

Premium with same or slightly different BR than it's predecessor T-34/85 M2

Edited May 30, 2021 by _IvalinA_

[GrumpyStranger 723]

 

9 hours ago, _IvalinA_ said:

According do surviving documents in CAW (polish military archives), tank prototype was 60~80% completed or a contract was issued to build it.

Existed prototype either was destroyed by it's builders or fall into hands of occupant (after war some documents were found in abwehr archives with review of new polish tank prototype

, later those were reconstructed by polish Historian and are now known as the PzKpfw T39 (p) ).

No. Polnishe panzerwagen T39 from the abwehr documents has nothing in common with 14tp. Enough is known about the design process of the 14tp to definitely rule this out, but not enough is known to recreate it entirely.

 

Even if the prototype was supposedly 70% finished, since no hard data survived, it has no place in WT.

 

9 hours ago, _IvalinA_ said:

The only prototype that was built was observed and described by a CIA agent, a report on it is available in public CIA records ...

Probably abandoned or scrapped, because just like soviets the Polish engineers encountered serious problems with relatively large recoil of the 100mm gun

mounted in the standard T-34/85 turret.

The CIA agent described what has been relayed to him. Occlam's razor (and about a month's worth of digging and discussions) says this was a case of misidentification of a T-44 they had around for training.

 

Quote

7TP/7TP wz. 39 (almost identical, one of them is redundant)

Only half-true. While the PzInz variant used the same hull shape with heavier plates (and it needs to be stated, the armor is almost tripled in some cases), the BBTrBrPanc variant has a unique hull shape on top of having twice the armor thickness. As long as the scarcity of data is not a deal breaker, it's a decent addition for BR1.3-ish.