J34 - Swedish Hunter F.4 with Sidewinders

[Ein79 5,752]

( Hawker Hunter F.4 / J34 on display at the Flygvapenmuseum – the Swedish Air Force Museum in Linköping. Source: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Swedish_Airforce_J34_Hawker_Hunter_Jetfighter.jpg )

- short article & photo walk around J34 at the Flygvapenmuseum: http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/hawker-hunter-in-detail/
- even better photo walk around J34 at the Flygvapenmuseum: http://plasticfantastique.com/walk_arounds/walk-around-the-hawker-hunter/

 

Text below from: 

Hawker Hunter: A Comprehensive Guideby Paul Bradley, 

SAM Publications, 2009, ISBN-10: 0955185890.

 

 

Above right: Swedish Air Force armourer loads ammunition into the port inboard gun of Hunter. Source: ADEN, The 30mm ADEN Cannon by David J. Griffin, ISBN-10: 1329113519, ISBN-13: 9781329113510, 2015, p.68.

 

 

( Hawker Hunter F.4 / J34 on display at the Flygvapenmuseum – the Swedish Air Force Museum in Linköping. Source: https://www.airfighters.com/photo/163119/M/Sweden-Air-Force/Hawker-J34-Hunter-Hunter-Mk-50/34016/ )

- Swedish designation: J34

- British designation: Mk.50 (export variant of F.4)
- Service time in Swedish Air Force: 1955-1969
- Number of aircraft acquired: 120
 

Armament:

 

4 x 30 mm akan m/55 (ADEN) cannons   

(source: ADEN, The 30mm ADEN Cannon by David J. Griffin, ISBN-10: 1329113519, ISBN-13: 9781329113510, 2015)

 

2 x RB24B (AIM-9B) missiles 

 

(source: https://www.aef.se/Flygvapnet/Notiser/Sidewinder.htm)

 

Performance and other data (comparison with F.1, F.2 and F3), 612 knots = 1133 km/h:

EDIT:

I found an interesting fragment in F.4's pilot notes that directly says about the maximum speed in level flight at full throttle in Mach numbers - most likely it should be interpreted as "no less than Mach 0.93 and no more than Mach 0.95 depending on altitude". At see level Mach 0,93 is no less than 1140 km/h.


Source:

 

The scan from SFI J 34 recived from Flygvapenmuseum:

- 1150 km/h at low alt
- 425 km/h limit for landing gear
- 450 km/h limit for full flaps
- 550 km/h limit for flaps at 40 degree

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

( source: https://aerofred.com/details.php?image_id=86817 )
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aditional, historical photos:


(source: http://www.f10kamratforening.se/?page_id=402)
 

(source: https://blogg.forsvarsmakten.se/flygvapenbloggen/2019/03/20/en-skonhets-sorti-ett-50-arsminne/ )
 

(source: Warpaint Series No.8: Hawker Hunter by Alan W. Hall, Hall Park Books Limited, ISSN: 1363-0369)
 

(source: Warpaint Series No.8: Hawker Hunter by Alan W. Hall, Hall Park Books Limited, ISSN: 1363-0369)
 

(source: http://t-norum.bloggplatsen.se/2014/01/01/10956423-hawker-hunter-f4-mk-50-1954-1967/)
 

(source: https://blogg.forsvarsmakten.se/flygvapenbloggen/2019/03/20/en-skonhets-sorti-ett-50-arsminne/ )

 

(source: https://elpoderdelasgalaxias.wordpress.com/2013/01/25/hawker-hunter-j34-mk-50-scandinavian-makeup/)
 

(source: https://www.aef.se/Flygvapnet/Notiser/J34_Hawker_Hunter_Notis_2.htm)

(source: https://blogg.forsvarsmakten.se/flygvapenbloggen/2019/03/20/en-skonhets-sorti-ett-50-arsminne/ )

 

Painting and marking:

(source: Warpaint Series No.8: Hawker Hunter by Alan W. Hall, Hall Park Books Limited, ISSN: 1363-0369)

I think the "Acro Hunters" badge could be a great preorder bonus (as a whole skin or just special decal):

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

(click twice to see in higher resolution)

 

J34 colors shades standards information:

 

( source: http://www.mooserepublic.se/product/32006-j-34-hawker-hunter-mk-50-1-32/ )

(source: The Hawker Hunter: A Comprehensive Guide by Paul Bradley, SAM Publications © 2009, ISBN: 978-1-9551858-9-2)

(source: http://www.clavework-graphics.co.uk/aircraft/hawker_hunter/hunter_041.html)
 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Einherjer1979

[ItssLuBu 1,803]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[Ein79 5,752]

On 28/12/2019 at 11:06, ItssLuBu said:

Approved and open for discussion. 

THX!

@Aquilachrysaetos - as an Hunter expert feel free to correct or supplement my suggestion. BTW - have you got Hunter F.4 pilot notes manual? I have only for F.6, FGA.9 and FR.10.

 

EDIT - I found your suggestion for British F.4. Are you sure about that top speed of 1148 km/h? Same as F.6?

 

Got the F.4's manual. I'm afraid 620 knots = 1148 km/h it's just IAS limit (VNE), not actual top speed in level flight, because same we have in pilot notes for F.1.
 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Einherjer1979

[Milocat 4,857]

+1, yes please!  This gets my full support, it would be an incredible addition to the Swedish tree!

[Borotovas 4,500]

+1

[PremiumFuelOnly 1,604]

On 28/12/2019 at 05:24, Einherjer1979 said:

THX!

@Aquilachrysaetos - as an Hunter expert feel free to correct or supplement my suggestion. BTW - have you got Hunter F.4 pilot notes manual? I have only for F.6, FGA.9 and FR.10.

 

EDIT - I found your suggestion for British F.4. Are you sure about that top speed of 1148 km/h? Same as F.6?

 

Got the F.4's manual. I'm afraid 620 knots = 1148 km/h it's just IAS limit (VNE), not actual top speed in level flight, because same we have in pilot notes for F.1.
 

 

 

Yes, it is the VNE.

 

However, given enough time, it is likely that the Hunter F.4 could accelerate to this same top speed (as it is airframe-limited, seeing as that the F.6 and and F.4 airframes are identical, with only wings differing). A few of the secondary sources and books I used seem to confirm this suspicion, but I'd reserve definitive judgement until I could look at the F.4's operating data. 

 

In case you don't know, our Hunter F.1 in-game should be capable of 113X kph as well, seeing as that it is the late pre-production variant with the airbrake. But because when it was added, Gaijin actually carefully considered balance instead of trying to meet every whim and fancy of the playerbase, they (for better or for worse) created a hybrid pre-production Hunter F.1 of sorts: the 3D model and airbrake of the late F.1 pre-production run, but the speed/performance of the first produced example that completely lacked an airbrake (it was to use its flaps instead, similar to the Swifts...a feature that even the later Hunters retained despite the addition of the airbrake).

 

 

[Sternjaeger84 1,076]

+1.

[Ein79 5,752]

2 hours ago, Aquilachrysaetos said:

 

Yes, it is the VNE.

 

However, given enough time, it is likely that the Hunter F.4 could accelerate to this same top speed (as it is airframe-limited, seeing as that the F.6 and and F.4 airframes are identical, with only wings differing). A few of the secondary sources and books I used seem to confirm this suspicion, but I'd reserve definitive judgement until I could look at the F.4's operating data. 

I found an interesting fragment in F.4's pilot notes that directly says about the maximum speed in level flight at full throttle, but gives it in Mach number and does not specify at what altitude:

 

 

Mach 0,93 = about >1140 km/h at see level...so MAYBE...if it's not a Mach number for higher altitudes....but we have also "to 0,95M" which could be the number for higher altitude while "0.93" for see level. So most likely it should be interpreted as "no less than Mach 0.93 and no more than Mach 0.95 depending on altitude".

So maybe Hunter F.4 was as fast as F.6 & FGA.9, just slower accelerating to this speed. 

I would be grateful if you put additional information about performance in the thread (from your "secondary sources").

BTW - Mach 0.93 in the game at low alt:



And this is top speed of Hunter F.6 in the game at 5000 m - Mach 0.94:

Edited December 31, 2019 by Einherjer1979

[DrDrakenlans 50]

Adding the F.4 would make sense not only for the Swedish tree, but because it was used by several Nato countries that never had the F.6. And that would open for additional camouflages, and premium options later on.

I don't have a J 34 manual at hand (or any F.4 equivalent) at the moment. But given some time, I'll dig in to the performance and try to make sense of it.

[Ein79 5,752]

11 minutes ago, DrLimerep said:

I don't have a J 34 manual at hand (or any F.4 equivalent) at the moment. But given some time, I'll dig in to the performance and try to make sense of it.

 

We are close, the truth is out there..Mach 0,93-0,95 in level flight..but I will appreciate any additional information, especially from the Swedish manual. Thx in advance!

[PremiumFuelOnly 1,604]

On 30/12/2019 at 18:09, Einherjer1979 said:

I found an interesting fragment in F.4's pilot notes that directly says about the maximum speed in level flight at full throttle, but gives it in Mach number and does not specify at what altitude:

 

 

Mach 0,93 = about >1140 km/h at see level...so MAYBE...if it's not a Mach number for higher altitudes....but we have also "to 0,95M" which could be the number for higher altitude while "0.93" for see level. So most likely it should be interpreted as "no less than Mach 0.93 and no more than Mach 0.95 depending on altitude".

So maybe Hunter F.4 was as fast as F.6 & FGA.9, just slower accelerating to this speed. 

I would be grateful if you put additional information about performance in the thread (from your "secondary sources").
 

 

I should've been more specific: the secondary sources (i.e. the various books I've cited in my RAF F.4 suggestion) suggest that my theory of the F.4's airframe (barring the wings) being highly similar to the late Hunters is correct. They do not confirm that the top speed of the Hunter F.4 is 620 knots at sea level.

 

Nevertheless, here are some numerical excerpts that are about performance data...

 

Warpaint 08:

 

Hunter in action:

 

The Warpaint series book seems to indicate that the F.4 would've only been as fast as a standard production F.1, while the second just provides some sort of arbitrary speed figure for some unknown altitude. I generally like to take books like these with a grain of salt unless it's by an extremely reputed author or publisher (like the SAM Publications title on the Hunter, which unfortunately doesn't have performance data for anything other than the F.6). In my time spent reading and researching various planes, I've certainly found a few inaccuracies in Warpaint books. I'd say 610 knots would still be pretty credible as the thrust output of the F.4 vs. F.1 is still nearly identical, and the airframe differences even between the two are also fairly minor, with the chief addition being the gun blisters. The F.4 is sort of the bridging stopgap between early and late Hunters, as it introduced many features seen in later versions, but lacks the dogtooth leading edge wings & ordnance as it's still saddled with the early powerplants (albeit with improved reliability)...so until somebody is willing to shell out for the F.4's ODM, whether the plane does 610 or nearly 620 knots is anybody's guess.

 

That being said, I'm inclined to agree with your conclusion from the F.4's P.N. and the consensus so far.

 

 

[Ein79 5,752]

To avoid confusion but also to share cool stuff:

 

Searching the web for information on the "Swedish Hawker Hunter" you will find tons of photos and also videos of the beautifully restored Hunter in Swedish painting with the "Acro Hunters" badge.

 

Painting is completely historical, but the plane itself is not Swedish J34!

 

In fact it is ex-Swiss Airforce Hawker Hunter F MK.58 nowadays operated by Swedish Airforce Historic Flight.

 

The MK.58 is the equivalent of the British Hunter F.6 with several FGA.9 features incorporated and later upgraded by Swiss.

 

This is a different airframe than Hunter F.4 / J34. The most noticeable difference is the "toothed" wing, which first appeared on Hunter F.6 and was not used by Swedish Hunters.

 

On the other hand, it's worth reviewing these photos and videos to feel the esthetics and spirit of Swedish Hunters. I strongly recommend it!

 

 

 

 

 

+

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/1228540/se-dxm-swedish-air-force-historic-flight-hawker-hunter-f-58/

+
https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/1228540/se-dxm-swedish-air-force-historic-flight-hawker-hunter-f-58/

 

...and many more in google 

[MasterOfUltramar 1,711]

+1 premium only tho.

[pieve 3,578]

There is a version of the J-34 that can carry 4 missiles, I just don't know which version it is. So this version could be line

 

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

Here you can see the other two missiles in the belly of the J-34.

 

[Ein79 5,752]

48 minutes ago, FinlandSupreme said:

+1 premium only tho.

 

Yes, I also think it should be a premium, already spaded and with some nice decal & skins bonuses. And also the grinding tool with some SL/RP boosters. 

 

26 minutes ago, pieve said:

There is a version of the J-34 that can carry 4 missiles, I just don't know which version it is. So this version could be line

 

Thx, interesting, have to investigate it.

[DrDrakenlans 50]

No, no, no! No!! The J 34 could never carry more than two missiles. The dorsal mount in that last picture is on a J 35! See image below of a better view of the arrangement on one of the Draken prototypes. Also, that odd-looking J 34 with the peculiar ejector configuration was the one used for afterburner trials. And before anybody goes nuts over those; no, it was never implemented on service aircraft.

Edited January 4, 2020 by DrLimerep
Added picture

[pieve 3,578]

1 hour ago, DrLimerep said:

No, no, no! No!! The J 34 could never carry more than two missiles. The dorsal mount in that last picture is on a J 35! See image below of a better view of the arrangement on one of the Draken prototypes. Also, that odd-looking J 34 with the peculiar ejector configuration was the one used for afterburner trials. And before anybody goes nuts over those; no, it was never implemented on service aircraft.

It's really. but I mistook the hunter from Singapore

 

Spoiler

 

[Submarine6 32]

+1

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

+1 at 9.0 since the 9.3 br is a trap and it will fight top tier , see how the FGA.9 struggle atm

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

Kinda surprised we didn't have a Hunter on the tree upon release, since it would've saved Gaijin some work.

[Ein79 5,752]

11 hours ago, Z3r0_ said:

Kinda surprised we didn't have a Hunter on the tree upon release, since it would've saved Gaijin some work.

 

So support and keep your fingers crossed for Hunter J34 in 1.97.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Einherjer1979

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

On 11/01/2020 at 14:30, Z3r0_ said:

Kinda surprised we didn't have a Hunter on the tree upon release, since it would've saved Gaijin some work.

it's kind of a good thing because it's 1 less "copy pasta plane"

[Ein79 5,752]

20 minutes ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

it's kind of a good thing because it's 1 less "copy pasta plane"

J34 would be far from "copy pasta plane":

- differences in airframe
- differences in performance
- differences in weapon
- unique skins

 

[Ace122496 1]

+1

I think this is an excellent idea! Sweden really needs more aircraft in the tree and the J34 would be perfect! You have my vote.

[Lanata 29]

I want to play the hunter but I don't want to grind the British tree.

+1