Mitsubishi F-4EJ Kai Super Phantom

[David Bowie 1,554]

Summary of arguments and rebuttals

 

Picture of the JDAM on the F-4EJ Kai?
it is just for display.

 

Is the ADTW's F-4EJ's new antenna is GPS antenna?
It's been installed since 1988, so that is not a GPS antenna.

 

A picture of the F-4EJ Kai with the XGCS-2?
Just performing aerodynamics and separation tests with dummy bomb, not real bomb.

 

F-4EJ Kai's GCS-1?
No ground attack ability due to seeker's performance

 

F-4EJ Kai's AGM-62 or AGM-65?
When producing the F-4EJ, all equipment was removed, and no functions were added even in EJ Kai.

[David Bowie 1,554]

2 hours ago, Wiggly_Armed_Man said:

One thing that is interesting to note is that this does have some IRCCM ability, though what that specifically is isn't described anywhere.

GCS-1's IRCCM function is simple, targets with an unusually high temperature difference from sea level are considered decoys and ignored.

[Wiggly_Armed_Man 2,383]

41 minutes ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

GCS-1's IRCCM function is simple, targets with an unusually high temperature difference from sea level are considered decoys and ignored.

While that may be the case it isn't described anywhere in the document that I could see.

[David Bowie 1,554]

5 minutes ago, Wiggly_Armed_Man said:

While that may be the case it isn't described anywhere in the document that I could see.

Read my excerpt, they wrote that part based on the GCS-1 technical outline

 

"また、温度差が異常に高いものにはフレアー判定を行なうIRCCM(赤外線妨害排除)機能を備えており、実用試験では実際に標的船の近くに遠隔操作可能なフレアー発生装置を搭載したブイを海上へ設置してIRCCMの能力確認試験を行なっている。"

Edited October 19, 2021 by _David_Bowie_

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

2 hours ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

(idk under which situations a ship or tank will pop flares, so I find this mildly amusing)

the flares are integrated into the ships smoke countermeasures I guess. Atleast thats how it works with MASS. I think SRBOC also has a similar system

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

36 minutes ago, L963 said:

the flares are integrated into the ships smoke countermeasures I guess. Atleast thats how it works with MASS. I think SRBOC also has a similar system

 

I don't remember if smoke is currently capable of masking the IR signature of a target right now, but if that capability is present that'd be neat, although I'm not sure how effective it'd be in the current state of things.

 

That said, 5 degree seeker FoV means after a fair distance, target resolution capabilities aren't going to be too great (if 2 different targets are within the FoV, it'll target an average point between them), although as a 500-750lb bomb, it's debatable how precise it'd truly need to be to achieve effective results, so it might even be a net positive.

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

3 minutes ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

I don't remember if smoke is currently capable of masking the IR signature of a target right now, but if that capability is present that'd be neat, although I'm not sure how effective it'd be in the current state of things.

Modern smoke does, just like its blocking thermal vision on tanks. WW2 smoke or engine exhaust doesnt

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

Just now, L963 said:

Modern smoke does, just like its blocking thermal vision on tanks. WW2 smoke or engine exhaust doesnt

 

I know modern smoke masks thermals, but I'm unsure if it masks against IR seekers right now.

[warhead_beast 352]

2 hours ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

 

I know modern smoke masks thermals, but I'm unsure if it masks against IR seekers right now.

They do block the Pars 3LR which have IR seekers i think 

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

31 minutes ago, warhead_beast said:

They do block the Pars 3LR which have IR seekers i think 

 

If that's the case then smoke does indeed mask against IR seekers, so I suppose to some effect the IRCCM it has is useful, that said, players won't get their LWR triggered, so I suppose this is generally going to remain effective regardless.

[Wiggly_Armed_Man 2,383]

Some ships do launch flares such as the PG-02. Its SRBOC system is capable of deploying flares along with the chaff which it does in-game, that might be what the IRCCM is intended to combat.

[LordMustang 7,405]

The JDAM will be removed from F-4EJ/Kai. More details should follow later.

 

Regarding the GCS-1, there is no information that it can succesfully detect and track ground targets. Detecting a heat signature of a ground target can be significantly more difficult than detecting ships. If there is information regarding this, or more specifics regarding the seeker performance, it could be considered.

 

 

 

[Fireraid233 4,274]

31 minutes ago, LordMustang said:

The JDAM will be removed from F-4EJ/Kai. More details should follow later.

 

Regarding the GCS-1, there is no information that it can succesfully detect and track ground targets. Detecting a heat signature of a ground target can be significantly more difficult than detecting ships. If there is information regarding this, or more specifics regarding the seeker performance, it could be considered.

 

 

 

Well I guess this means Japan won't have any sort of guided munitions against ground then rip.

[David Bowie 1,554]

1 hour ago, LordMustang said:

The JDAM will be removed from F-4EJ/Kai. More details should follow later.

 

Regarding the GCS-1, there is no information that it can succesfully detect and track ground targets. Detecting a heat signature of a ground target can be significantly more difficult than detecting ships. If there is information regarding this, or more specifics regarding the seeker performance, it could be considered.

Nice 

Edited October 20, 2021 by _David_Bowie_

[MD_mudhen 31]

Rip indeed

While JDAMs are pretty crap based on how its implemented, I have had hoped for japan top jets to get GCS-1. Guess it can only be a dream now

[David Bowie 1,554]

35 minutes ago, Fireraid233 said:

Well I guess this means Japan won't have any sort of guided munitions against ground then rip.

Wait for the F-2 to come out, At least it's a plane that actually uses JDAM

[AngelPipes 31]

18 minutes ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

Wait for the F-2 to come out, At least it's a plane that actually uses JDAM

Just few years to wait 

[ナナヲアカリ 88]

29 minutes ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

Wait for the F-2 to come out, At least it's a plane that actually uses JDAM

 

 

I think waiting for P-1+AGM-65 is also a good idea

 

 

[Vonarian 2,888]

1 hour ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

Nice 

Well, thanks for bug reporting the issue

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

3 hours ago, asrury said:

 

 

I think waiting for P-1+AGM-65 is also a good idea

 

Practically speaking, this would be Japan's most lucrative asset for standoff weaponry against ground targets, the F-2 will not offer AGM capability after all. Hopefully it receives greater consideration in the content pipeline.

[warhead_beast 352]

What about the ASMs? can they used against ground targets and what guidance systems do they use? 

 

[Fireraid233 4,274]

23 minutes ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

 

Practically speaking, this would be Japan's most lucrative asset for standoff weaponry against ground targets, the F-2 will not offer AGM capability after all. Hopefully it receives greater consideration in the content pipeline.

Would love to see it do we know if it has flares and chaff?

[warhead_beast 352]

Spoiler

yes it has 

[コタリ 2,733]

6 hours ago, LordMustang said:

 

Regarding the GCS-1, there is no information that it can succesfully detect and track ground targets. Detecting a heat signature of a ground target can be significantly more difficult than detecting ships. If there is information regarding this, or more specifics regarding the seeker performance, it could be considered.

What a joke. You are going to tell me that 1960s AGM-87s worked perfectly fine, 1970s AGM-65Ds worked perfectly fine, completely unmodified Mistrals were able to attack cargo trucks. Yet a 1990s GCS with a more advanced seeker is questionable on whether or not it can discern basic background radiation? In your imaginary world where the ground is somehow emitting 100°C+ worth of background IR enough to mask literal engines, all thermal sighting systems would be useless because they would be a massive white blob. Ships arguably emit less heat than a tank would since all their engines are below the waterline and the hottest thing would be the relatively cold exhaust stacks.

 

1 hour ago, Optical_Ilyushin said:

Practically speaking, this would be Japan's most lucrative asset for standoff weaponry against ground targets, the F-2 will not offer AGM capability after all. Hopefully it receives greater consideration in the content pipeline.

I don't see why the EJ Kai couldn't get AGM-65Fs.

1) With the restored bombing computer, there should technically be nothing stopping them from being mounted and fired

2) Japan actually has Mavericks in their inventories granted with the JMSDF

Both of these combined is more than what can be said with half the weapons decisions in game.

The US AH-64D never received the same package to mount ATAS that the A did yet has them in game.

The Lynx we have in game never received the proper targeting system to guide hellfires.

The Germany never had any AIM-9P inventory.

 

The EJ Kai getting AGM-65Fs has more precedent than all 3 examples above and Japan choosing not to for political reasons shouldn't apply to a fictional video game which has already taken plenty of artistic liberties.

Edited October 20, 2021 by AnimeThighs

[LordMustang 7,405]

1 minute ago, AnimeThighs said:

What a joke. You are going to tell me that 1960s AGM-87s worked perfectly fine, 1970s AGM-65Ds worked perfectly fine, completely unmodified Mistrals were able to attack cargo trucks. Yet a 1990s GCS with a more advanced seeker is questionable on whether or not it can discern basic background radiation? In your imaginary world where the ground is somehow emitting 100°C+ worth of background IR enough to mask literal engines, all thermal sighting systems would be useless because they would be a massive white blob. Ships arguably emit less heat than a tank would since all their engines are below the waterline and the hottest thing would be the relatively cold exhaust stacks.

You're comparing weapons specifically designed for engaging ground targets with a weapon designed for attacking naval targets. This does not mean that one is better than the other, they are designed for completely different goals.

[Optical_Ilyushin 5,554]

1 hour ago, Fireraid233 said:

Would love to see it do we know if it has flares and chaff?

 

The P-1 has access to flares and chaff yes

 

 

It also comes equipped with MAWS, RWR, and a wide array of other systems. Overall it's surprisingly well equipped and would be a really interesting vehicle in this game, as well as arguably the predominant standoff weapons platform Japan can access. Additionally, it's an indigenous design, which is nice.

 

Of note, the AGM-65F's warhead is semi armor piercing instead of shaped charge, and has a distinctly greater bursting charge when compared to the shaped charge counterparts.