Turkish Ground Forces Tech Tree

[lLiberté 345]

23 hours ago, SubapbaP said:

This is the final form of my Turkish Tree. Unfortunately, as we have this particular suggestion, no other suggestion will be accepted whether it is a full tree or semi tree like Israel. (Not sure about sub-branch suggestion under a certain country.)

 

 

  Another very well made suggestion  

 

  I would like point couple of things; 

• Is there a version of M60TM without Pulat, If yes I would like to see as I've never seen it. It would make great premium/event.
• I think Altay following Leopard line is aesthetically more pleasing, just my personal preference. Plus you can bump both M60T and M60TM to top tier. 
• Middle two line is kind of mixed, no ? Splitting them as Tracked and Wheeled-line would be good touch. 
• One of the Kaplan's should be premium, your TT lack premiums gotta please the mighty Snail come on. On serious note, Kaplan with Pulat to research tree as it was not adopted by Indonesia with that configuration. 
• Where's my beloved Zıpkın 
• Tulpar-S missile system is probably Aselsan's MLS. It could be armed variety of ATGM's not only Kornet-E yet Turkey employs only Kornet-E and OMTAS. Kornet as stock missiles and OMTAS as researchable seems appropriate you can bump it to top tier with OMTAS.
• As @Yontzee suggested Aselsan's Korhan should be premium. 

 

 That's all I can say, appreciate your effort

 

  While looking at your TT I realised Korhan received significant upgrade and turret system initially did not have Pulat APS

 

Initial Prototype 

 

Later Prototype Used in Tests

Edited June 9, 2022 by Dewastor

[SubapbaP 32]

2 hours ago, Dewastor said:

• Is there a version of M60TM without Pulat, If yes I would like to see as I've never seen it. It would make great premium/event.

 

I have attached a rar file below. You can find the picture of all the vehicles in my suggestion. Sources vary.

 

2 hours ago, Dewastor said:

• I think Altay following Leopard line is aesthetically more pleasing, just my personal preference. Plus you can bump both M60T and M60TM to top tier. 

 

I completey agree with you on this.But if I move Altay's to the second line, the american tank line will be rather small and German line will be crowded. Plus the balancing and placing issue of the Leopard BMC. I simply can't find better a solution than this.

 

2 hours ago, Dewastor said:

• Middle two line is kind of mixed, no ? Splitting them as Tracked and Wheeled-line would be good touch. 

 

Splitting tracked and wheeled vehicles create a lot of lines unfortunately. I also don't like it this way but this is the best I can arrange.

 

2 hours ago, Dewastor said:

• One of the Kaplan's should be premium, your TT lack premiums gotta please the mighty Snail come on. On serious note, Kaplan with Pulat to research tree as it was not adopted by Indonesia with that configuration. 

 

Fair point. Making one of the Kaplan premium would not hurt the tree indeed. But this tank doesn't have enough fame. I thought M60TM with its look would be more attractive.

 

2 hours ago, Dewastor said:

• Where's my beloved Zıpkın 

 

 

Atılgan and Zıpkın are very similar. But I guess Atılgan carry more missiles. That's why I chose it. Zıpkın might be more useful thanks its speed though.

 

3 hours ago, Dewastor said:

• Tulpar-S missile system is probably Aselsan's MLS. It could be armed variety of ATGM's not only Kornet-E yet Turkey employs only Kornet-E and OMTAS. Kornet as stock missiles and OMTAS as researchable seems appropriate you can bump it to top tier with OMTAS.

 

Yeah. But I think Kaplan S's should be limited to Kornets and stay at rank 6. Otherwise, there might be no ATGM carrier to put at rank 6. At least I could not find any other vehicle.

 

3 hours ago, Dewastor said:

• As @Yontzee suggested Aselsan's Korhan should be premium. 

 

At least one of the Korhan should stay as a regular tree vehicle. Korhan is natural continuation of the preceding IFVs. It presents an unmanned turret with 35mm main gun. 25mm at rank 5, 30mm at rank 6 and 35mm at rank 7 seem logical.

 

Pictures.rar

 

 

Thank you for your criticism @Dewastor

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

On 08/06/2022 at 16:59, SubapbaP said:

I did suggest the nation as a subtree for the ranks of 5,6,7 and 8(just like how Israel was introduced). It was deleted after around an hour. And when I messaged a suggestion moderator, He said ‘We already have a suggestion for this particular idea and unfortunately we can't have multiple of the same topics.’ although PikPikker’s suggestion is not a subtree suggestion.

I think they're not so pointless... Cuz the answers to the "Would you like to see Turkish tech tree in War Thunder?" question includes both ways. It doesn't specifically mean an Israeli-like tree or another main nation-like one.

 

People who vote for Yes here are voting for both a TT starting from Tier V to VIII and a TT starting from Tier I.

and people who vote for " Turkey should be a part of another tech tree" vote for a South African-like branch under a Major Nation.

 

I think that's why they've deleted your thread 

[SubapbaP 32]

On 09/06/2022 at 21:00, CneuHa3_TUR said:

I think they're not so pointless... Cuz the answers to the "Would you like to see Turkish tech tree in War Thunder?" question includes both ways. It doesn't specifically mean an Israeli-like tree or another main nation-like one.

 

People who vote for Yes here are voting for both a TT starting from Tier V to VIII and a TT starting from Tier I.

and people who vote for " Turkey should be a part of another tech tree" vote for a South African-like branch under a Major Nation.

 

I think that's why they've deleted your thread 

 

Fair point 

[lLiberté 345]

On 09/06/2022 at 21:00, CneuHa3_TUR said:

I think they're not so pointless... Cuz the answers to the "Would you like to see Turkish tech tree in War Thunder?" question includes both ways. It doesn't specifically mean an Israeli-like tree or another main nation-like one.

 

People who vote for Yes here are voting for both a TT starting from Tier V to VIII and a TT starting from Tier I.

and people who vote for " Turkey should be a part of another tech tree" vote for a South African-like branch under a Major Nation.

 

I think that's why they've deleted your thread 

 

  My topic got rejected with similar reason which is fair. Having gazillion of different topic would to more harm than good. Collaborating like we do is a lot more fruitful right now. 

 

On 09/06/2022 at 17:41, SubapbaP said:

 

I have attached a rar file below. You can find the picture of all the vehicles in my suggestion. Sources vary.

 

 

I'll be checking out tank you

 

On 09/06/2022 at 17:41, SubapbaP said:

 

I completey agree with you on this.But if I move Altay's to the second line, the american tank line will be rather small and German line will be crowded. Plus the balancing and placing issue of the Leopard BMC. I simply can't find better a solution than this.

 

 

 Yep you are completely right. 

 

On 09/06/2022 at 17:41, SubapbaP said:

 

Fair point. Making one of the Kaplan premium would not hurt the tree indeed. But this tank doesn't have enough fame. I thought M60TM with its look would be more attractive.

 

 

  Problem with M60TM it is indeed a top tier vehicle. Closest M60 in terms of performance is AMBT at 9.7 and I believe TM would be at least 10.0 even without APS system. 

 

On 09/06/2022 at 17:41, SubapbaP said:

 

Atılgan and Zıpkın are very similar. But I guess Atılgan carry more missiles. That's why I chose it. Zıpkın might be more useful thanks its speed though.

 

 

  I'm just messing with you  Atılgan has 8 missiles in two launchers on M113 platform while Zıpkın has 4 missiles on Defender which is probably un-armored. It's more of a meme machine with a bite.

 

On 09/06/2022 at 17:41, SubapbaP said:

 

Yeah. But I think Kaplan S's should be limited to Kornets and stay at rank 6. Otherwise, there might be no ATGM carrier to put at rank 6. At least I could not find any other vehicle.

 

 

 Kaplan-S with 2 missile launcher could fill that gap, it makes sense. Though 4 launcher version should be able to fire OMTAS as no other carrier has access to 4 launchers and it is amphibious. Alternatively, Cirit launching vehicles could fill that gap and you can place Yalman as a transition vehicle. Another option is Kaplan-S (x2) and Elder Yalçın (x4) with Kornets. 

 

On 09/06/2022 at 17:41, SubapbaP said:

 

At least one of the Korhan should stay as a regular tree vehicle. Korhan is natural continuation of the preceding IFVs. It presents an unmanned turret with 35mm main gun. 25mm at rank 5, 30mm at rank 6 and 35mm at rank 7 seem logical.

 

 

 Yep, I did not realised there were two different prototypes. Korhan and Tulpar makes great end of the line vehicles. It's not like every vehicle in trees are actively operated. 

 

 What about Pack Premium vehicle though, which one should be ? It should be somewhere between 9.0 and 9.7. There is few candidates in my opinion but I don't really know. Kaplan MT without APS good light tank candidate, as MBT there is Leopard 1T, M48A5T2 but it is kind of unattractive as T1 will be on tree, M60 Fırat also a good option. I can't think of anything else. 

 

 

 It is not like tree lacks any anti-air vehicles but I've come across two more vehicles.

 

Cobra II with Aselsan's Stinger Launching System 

 

 

I'm not sure if its really SLS but it looks like to be. 

 

Early Cobra I with Unidentified Launcher

 

 

 It looks like to be an early Cobra I with anti-air missile launcher. It might be early version of Zıpkın PMSS. 

Edited June 11, 2022 by Dewastor

[SubapbaP 32]

On 11/06/2022 at 11:37, Dewastor said:

 Problem with M60TM it is indeed a top tier vehicle. Closest M60 in terms of performance is AMBT at 9.7 and I believe TM would be at least 10.0 even without APS system. 

 

What about Pack Premium vehicle though, which one should be ? It should be somewhere between 9.0 and 9.7. There is few candidates in my opinion but I don't really know. Kaplan MT without APS good light tank candidate, as MBT there is Leopard 1T, M48A5T2 but it is kind of unattractive as T1 will be on tree, M60 Fırat also a good option. I can't think of anything else.

 

Yes, current top-tier pack premium tanks are located around 9.0 br. M60TM can't be there due to its advanced capabilities. M60TM is at least a 11.0 tank without APS and Kaplan MT needs to be nerfed to be put around those br ranges as well. The thing is I dont want Turkey to be implemented in the near future. Instead they should be reserved for now.  I designed my suggestion for the distant future, after around 3-4 years, the time we will most probably see rank 8. That's why I suggested this tank as a pack premium at rank 7. Otherwise, a rank 6 pack premium would not make sense when there is the 8th rank.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 11:37, Dewastor said:

 I'm just messing with you  Atılgan has 8 missiles in two launchers on M113 platform while Zıpkın has 4 missiles on Defender which is probably un-armored. It's more of a meme machine with a bite.

 

Okay then  . But afaik Atılgan has 8 as reserves. So in total it has 16 missiles. I don't know the source but this is what I remember.

 

On 11/06/2022 at 11:37, Dewastor said:

 Kaplan-S with 2 missile launcher could fill that gap, it makes sense. Though 4 launcher version should be able to fire OMTAS as no other carrier has access to 4 launchers and it is amphibious. Alternatively, Cirit launching vehicles could fill that gap and you can place Yalman as a transition vehicle. Another option is Kaplan-S (x2) and Elder Yalçın (x4) with Kornets. 

 

Yeah pretty much possible. Let's see how  will decide.

 

 

[Radonsider 3]

I don't even think that snail reads this discussion, yeah having a Turkish TT would be great but I don't even think that they know there are Turkish vehicles.

 

 

Even if we don't get the TT, we should at least get some vehicles to other trees like the Leopard 2A4T1 and the M60T(M). But knowing gaijin they will butcher the stats. (M60T will probably have 500mms of protection while irl it stopped a Kornet to the turret)

 

 

Also, if you have problems with what ammo the TAF uses with 120mm L/44(55) it is mostly DM63 and MKEK produced version of it, later there are the Israeli ones like M338 and M388 (all of the ammo used by TAF is 3rd gen APFSDS), for the HEAT-MP, there is the MKEK one, same with Thermobaric and HEF.

 

[霧 丹爪モ匕口丂 靄 466]

6 hours ago, Radonsider said:

I don't even think that snail reads this discussion, yeah having a Turkish TT would be great but I don't even think that they know there are Turkish vehicles.

 

 

Even if we don't get the TT, we should at least get some vehicles to other trees like the Leopard 2A4T1 and the M60T(M). But knowing gaijin they will butcher the stats. (M60T will probably have 500mms of protection while irl it stopped a Kornet to the turret)

 

 

Also, if you have problems with what ammo the TAF uses with 120mm L/44(55) it is mostly DM63 and MKEK produced version of it, later there are the Israeli ones like M338 and M388 (all of the ammo used by TAF is 3rd gen APFSDS), for the HEAT-MP, there is the MKEK one, same with Thermobaric and HEF.

 

Well... their ignorance on Historical/Semi-Historical Turkish Camos made by users kinda approve your words, but still only thing we can do is proving better ideas and proves about the tree  

So just shouldn't give up and keep the thread alive  

[SubapbaP 32]

On 14/07/2022 at 16:45, Radonsider said:

I don't even think that snail reads this discussion, yeah having a Turkish TT would be great but I don't even think that they know there are Turkish vehicles.

 

 

Even if we don't get the TT, we should at least get some vehicles to other trees like the Leopard 2A4T1 and the M60T(M). But knowing gaijin they will butcher the stats. (M60T will probably have 500mms of protection while irl it stopped a Kornet to the turret)

 

 

Also, if you have problems with what ammo the TAF uses with 120mm L/44(55) it is mostly DM63 and MKEK produced version of it, later there are the Israeli ones like M338 and M388 (all of the ammo used by TAF is 3rd gen APFSDS), for the HEAT-MP, there is the MKEK one, same with Thermobaric and HEF.

 

 

Considering they added M60 AMBT, I don't think Gaijin is unaware of Turkish vehicles. Even so, they can easily come across most of the vehicles we talk about here with a little research. It is only up to their intention. I think it would be so nice if they somehow inform us about the possibility of Turkey in War Thunder. As there is no need for further discussion if they don't plan adding the nation.

 

Btw, I want to ask something, do Turkey have any fully indigenous APFSDS rounds for their 120mm guns?

[Radonsider 3]

On 18/07/2022 at 15:52, SubapbaP said:

 

Considering they added M60 AMBT, I don't think Gaijin is unaware of Turkish vehicles. Even so, they can easily come across most of the vehicles we talk about here with a little research. It is only up to their intention. I think it would be so nice if they somehow inform us about the possibility of Turkey in War Thunder. As there is no need for further discussion if they don't plan adding the nation.

 

Btw, I want to ask something, do Turkey have any fully indigenous APFSDS rounds for their 120mm guns?

Yes we do, it is more of a mix of the M388 and DM63, lacking some features in manufacturing but the test showed that they are better than every Korean APFSDS (K279/K276) Turkey bought. It has a performance between M388 and DM63, same class with them. Leopard 2A4T1 can withstand DM63 from the frontal arc

[lLiberté 345]

5 hours ago, Radonsider said:

Yes we do, it is more of a mix of the M388 and DM63, lacking some features in manufacturing but the test showed that they are better than every Korean APFSDS (K279/K276) Turkey bought. It has a performance between M388 and DM63, same class with them. Leopard 2A4T1 can withstand DM63 from the frontal arc

 Do you have any info about TAF’s inventory of 105 and 120mm rounds ? Is there anything else for 120mm besides DM63 and MOD 290 of MKE and you also mentioned Korean rounds, anything else ? (I’m not counting HE/HEAT/HP rounds) 
 

  MKE produces some sort of sub-caliber 105mm but that’s all I know, any other kinetic rounds ? 

[_prometheus_ 1]

i hope to coming

[lLiberté 345]

  Made a little more research about tank caliber rounds used by Turkey, there is;  American, Korean, German, Israeli and indigenous rounds caliber of 105mm and 120mm. List of rounds I've found so far:

 

Korean

• 120mm K277 HEAT-MP-T   
• 120mm K276 APFSDS-T
• 105mm KM456A1 HEATFS/HEAT (?)

 

Israeli

• 120mm M322 APFSDS-T
• 120mm M325 HEAT-MP

German

• 120mm DM63 APFSDS-T
• 120mm DM53A1 APFSDS-T

 

American

• 105mm M833 APFSDS-T
• 105mm  M774 APFSDS-T

 

Indigenous

 

• 120mm MOD 300 HE-T
• 120mm MOD 310 HEAT-MP
• 120mm MOD 290 APFSDS-T 
• 120mm MOD 292 High Pressure 
• 120mm TANOK Missile 
• 105mm MOD 233 HE 
• 105/35mm MOD 270 Sub-Caliber * _{^{May not be an operational round}}

 

  I'm pretty sure that list missing few rounds, could not find anything about 105mm German rounds used on Leopard 1 or anything pre-M774.

 

 

[ByLunaci 191]

Not only the ground forces, but the whole tree must come.

[Turgineer 2]

Turkey may not be enough to create its own tree. Due to the lack of original vehicles until modern times.

 

 

 

I think it should come to America or Israel as a subtree.

[lLiberté 345]

On 09/10/2022 at 13:05, ByLunaci said:

Not only the ground forces, but the whole tree must come.

 

  Potentially, Turkey could come up with proper Air, Ground and Naval TT. Air is a bit problematic though, there are enough helicopters to make a good one, also there are quiet abundant drones but airplanes are lacking severely. There are pretty much nothing unique in current scope of TTs. Naval, with the help of Ottoman vessels can stand in solidly. Ground has tons of vehicles too. TTT must be follow Israeli-style TT though, at least for ground and air, navy can have lower tiers, as lower tiers willl be virtually copy-paste. 

 

14 hours ago, Turgineer said:

Turkey may not be enough to create its own tree. Due to the lack of original vehicles until modern times.

 

 

 

I think it should come to America or Israel as a subtree.

 

  I mean we proved time and time again, TTT has more than enough modern vehicles to be a standalone TT. How are you going to justify addition products of FNSS, Otokar or BMC to Israel or US ? Couple of M60 and their upgrades just not enough to disregard other unique stuff and prototypes. Also Snail proved that there is no longer need for lower tier to make a TT with Israel TT. And addition of Finnish sub-line showed that Snail is not shy about adding complete copy-paste vehicles, even though there were lots of unique ones. 

[Mahiwew 529]

45 minutes ago, Dewastor said:

Potentially, Turkey could come up with proper Air, Ground and Naval TT.

Don't you think an air tree would be highly uninteresting?
While sure, they would more than likely have the amount of aircraft necessary to warrant a tree, I think it'd be a case like the Koreas, where their ground is very potent but air would be utterly disappointing.

[lLiberté 345]

4 minutes ago, Mahiwew said:

Don't you think an air tree would be highly uninteresting?

 

  It will yes, there's no denying. I've already mention airplane TT, not the whole Air, has virtually nothing unique to offer not even upgrades. 

 

6 minutes ago, Mahiwew said:

While sure, they would more than likely have the amount of aircraft necessary to warrant a tree, I think it'd be a case like the Koreas, where their ground is very potent but air would be utterly disappointing.

 

  Even numbers are not that high and there is very limited variety.  There might be 2 or 3 lines at most, nothing fancy.

[Mahiwew 529]

14 minutes ago, Dewastor said:

 

  It will yes, there's no denying. I've already mention airplane TT, not the whole Air, has virtually nothing unique to offer not even upgrades. 

 

 

  Even numbers are not that high and there is very limited variety.  There might be 2 or 3 lines at most, nothing fancy.

Even still, I'd very much be in favor of them adding Turkey eventually, Israel has already shown that Gaijin cares more for ground anyways.

[_prometheus_ 1]

ne zaman gelecek be ukrayna geldı bu gelmedı

[lLiberté 345]

On 17/10/2022 at 15:54, Mahiwew said:

Even still, I'd very much be in favor of them adding Turkey eventually, Israel has already shown that Gaijin cares more for ground anyways.

 

  Current iteration of ground TT is quite solid right now and it is in shape of an actual tree.

 

2 hours ago, worldofcomarx said:

ne zaman gelecek be ukrayna geldı bu gelmedı

 

  Soon™

[Giray_Yasin_ 14]

17/10/2022 tarihinde saat 00:05'te Turgineer şunları söyledi:

Türkiye kendi ağacını oluşturmaya yetmeyebilir. Modern zamanlara kadar orijinal araçların eksikliği nedeniyle.

 

 

 

Bence bir alt ağaç olarak Amerika'ya ya da İsrail'e gelmeli.

If it is suitable, if it is, they should buy the T-129 Atak helicopter from Italy. For this reason, a suitable or separate tree should come to Italy. It is an issue that we should give full support to now.

Turkish tree Turkish tree Turkish tree. :)

[Giray_Yasin_ 14]

With the arrival of the Turkish tree, it probably means to come on new maps. This is the Cyprus Peace Operation, which was historically carried out by Turkey, on 20 July 1974. Of course, there are also operations in the air force before this date.

This is a map that I produced as an estimate, of course, I took it as an image on google maps.

If we come here, if this map comes in War Thunder, if you ask in which countries it will come across.

It may be England, the Soviets and the USA against Turkey, or it may be England and the Soviets against Turkey.

It is a map that will be suitable as both realistic and simulation.

Both the air operations and the tank wars on the island of Cyprus would be very good.

After the T-129 Atak helicopter, when the F-104 comes as a Turkish plane, I believe that one day the Turkish tree will also come.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Giray_Yasin_

[Yontzee 1,676]

1 hour ago, Giray_Yasin_ said:

With the arrival of the Turkish tree, it probably means to come on new maps. This is the Cyprus Peace Operation, which was historically carried out by Turkey, on 20 July 1974. Of course, there are also operations in the air force before this date.

This is a map that I produced as an estimate, of course, I took it as an image on google maps.

If we come here, if this map comes in War Thunder, if you ask in which countries it will come across.

It may be England, the Soviets and the USA against Turkey, or it may be England and the Soviets against Turkey.

It is a map that will be suitable as both realistic and simulation.

Both the air operations and the tank wars on the island of Cyprus would be very good.

After the T-129 Atak helicopter, when the F-104 comes as a Turkish plane, I believe that one day the Turkish tree will also come.

 

 

 

 

Turkey would most likely come as a Rank IV+ nation similar to Israel due to copy and paste reasons. At the minimum a sub-tree. Hopefully with these small introductions to Turkish vehicles, it’s leading to Turkey’s implementation soon. 

[lLiberté 345]

2 hours ago, Giray_Yasin_ said:

With the arrival of the Turkish tree, it probably means to come on new maps. This is the Cyprus Peace Operation, which was historically carried out by Turkey, on 20 July 1974. Of course, there are also operations in the air force before this date.

This is a map that I produced as an estimate, of course, I took it as an image on google maps.

If we come here, if this map comes in War Thunder, if you ask in which countries it will come across.

It may be England, the Soviets and the USA against Turkey, or it may be England and the Soviets against Turkey.

It is a map that will be suitable as both realistic and simulation.

Both the air operations and the tank wars on the island of Cyprus would be very good.

After the T-129 Atak helicopter, when the F-104 comes as a Turkish plane, I believe that one day the Turkish tree will also come.

 

 

 

 

 

  Something tells me Snail would avoid Cyprus. We would see an Aegean or Black Sea air map though. 

 

19 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

Turkey would most likely come as a Rank IV+ nation similar to Israel due to copy and paste reasons. At the minimum a sub-tree. Hopefully with these small introductions to Turkish vehicles, it’s leading to Turkey’s implementation soon. 

 

  Exactly, other way is not just feasible.