Turkish Ground Forces Tech Tree

[wolfieraps21221 7]

TURKEY IS BEING ADDED? WHEN?

[Yontzee 1,676]

Nevermind

Edited December 19, 2022 by Yontzee

[Buzx 98]

+1

 

[Kingtiez@live 606]

Some rather unique twists.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Kingtiez@live

[Rambolf 371]

So with how the Altay was made with help from South Koreans and how from what I've seen online South Korea and Turkey seems a tight nit group (hopefully I got that right and didnt just offend loads of people) Would it not be best to either have Turkey as a main tree with a SK subtree or the other way around? Or am I reading a bit to less into that...

(I mean to imply that if there isn't enough for a full Turkish tree, and that maybe lacking as from what I've seen they have quite a few tanks and offshoots, with how the relations between Turkey and South Korea appear having them both in one tree could be a good idea, unless I've misjudged how deep those relations go.)

Edited December 18, 2022 by Rambolf

[lLiberté 345]

27 minutes ago, Rambolf said:

So with how the Altay was made with help from South Koreans and how from what I've seen online South Korea and Turkey seems a tight nit group (hopefully I got that right and didnt just offend loads of people) Would it not be best to either have Turkey as a main tree with a SK subtree or the other way around? Or am I reading a bit to less into that...

(I mean to imply that if there isn't enough for a full Turkish tree, and that maybe lacking as from what I've seen they have quite a few tanks and offshoots, with how the relations between Turkey and South Korea appear having them both in one tree could be a good idea, unless I've misjudged how deep those relations go.)

 

  Turkey and S.Korea indeed have quite good relationship, at least in terms of Defence Industry, but I don't think it is enough. Turkey has more than enough vehicles to makes its own Israeli style TT and so does South Korea, there is no need to stick them together. 

 

 

[Rambolf 371]

Just now, Dewastor said:

 

  Turkey and S.Korea indeed have quite good relationship, at least in terms of Defence Industry, but I don't think it is enough. Turkey has more than enough vehicles to makes its own Israeli style TT and so does South Korea, there is no need to stick them together. 

 

 

Mhm alright knowing gaijin tho probs enough to add a K2 as an event reward or squad vehicle...

[Raiden_Black 1,875]

Don't @ me for this suggestion ...
But ... how about Ukrainian sub-tree under Turkey? (If Ukraine's not getting a separate TT of its own with Poland)
Both have some connections, for few projects ... like T-84-120 Yatagan and MT-LB with Serdar RCWS etc etc
S.Korea sub tree can be added as well (again, if Joint-Korea is not getting a TT of its own)


T-84-120 and Leopard 2 during the Turkish tank trials, 2000

Edited December 19, 2022 by Raiden_Black

[lLiberté 345]

19 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

Don't @ me for this suggestion ...
But ... how about Ukrainian sub-tree under Turkey? (If Ukraine's not getting a separate TT of its own with Poland)
Both have some connections, for few projects ... like T-84-120 Yatagan and MT-LB with Serdar RCWS etc etc
S.Korea sub tree can be added as well (again, if there's Joint-Korea is not getting a TT of its own)


T-84-120 and Leopard 2 during the Turkish tank trials, 2000

 

  Again very similar situation, both Ukraine and Turkey has capabilities to have their own trees, adding either of them to each other's tree does not solve their problems either which is not having low tiers.

  I do believe though, shared or related projects should be shared, in that case Yatağan. I should end up in both trees, at least in my opinion, but having all the other Ukrainian vehicles in TTT would not do justice and plus that tree would be extremely bloated. It is not a bad idea but its not only option.

 

19 minutes ago, Raiden_Black said:

Both have some connections, for few projects ... like T-84-120 Yatagan and MT-LB with Serdar RCWS etc etc
 

 

  I haven't seen that one before, it is actually quite decent vehicle and prime example of Turkish-Ukrainian partnership. This one should go Ukrainian TT alongside the one on 4x4 platform. Turkey has its own platform which used SERDAR Turret. 

 

MT-LB with SERDAR RCWS

 

 

4x4 Platform with SERDAR RCWS

 

Ejder Yalçın 4x4 with SERDAR RCWS under Moroccan Service

 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Dewastor

[overic 1]

http://www.tayyareci.com/digerucaklar/turkiye/index.asp

 

Turkish aircraft history

[SubapbaP 32]

Considering Turkey, Yugoslavia and South Korea are the only logical options, I genuinely believe Turkey will be the next independent nation if we ever get one. Yugoslavia has unique vehicles only at lower tiers and Gaijin doesn't care lower tiers as much as higher tiers. South Korea on the other hand doesn't have the growth rate of Turkey. This year(2023), the 100th anniversary of the Republic, a lot of development from various military areas such as aviation and unmanned vehicles is expected to happen. Combat drones also put Turkey above Yugoslavia and South Korea as Turkey is one of the leading countries in the world when it comes to drone technology.

 

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M48A5T1

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M48A5T2

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M60A3 Fırat

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M60T

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M60TM Fırat(Pulat)

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Altay (2012)

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Altay (2015)

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Altay AHT

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Altay BMC

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Leopard 1A3

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Leopard 1T

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Leopard 2T1

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Leopard 2NG

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Leopard 2 BMC

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ACV-19 (90mm)

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Arma 6x6 (90mm)

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ACV-19 (BMP)

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Tulpar 105

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Kaplan MT

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Kaplan MT (Pulat)

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Arma 6x6 Omtas (2)

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Arma 6x6 Omtas (4)

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ACV-15 IFV (25mm)

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Arma 6x6 Bozok

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Tulpar IFV

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Kaplan 30 IFV

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Korhan

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Korhan (Akkor)

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Arma 8x8 Korhan

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Arma 8x8 L-UMTAS

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Cobra TOW

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ACV-15 HOT

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Tulpar-S Kornet (2)

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Tulpar-S Kornet (4)

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Arma 8x8 105

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Kaplan STA

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Pars STA

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Yalman

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Cobra 20

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Atılgan

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Sungur

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Korkut

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Hisar A

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Cobra SKIF

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T-155 Fırtına

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Ejder (Serdar)

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AV8 Gempita

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M60TM

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T84 Yatağan

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BMC Altuğ

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[Mahiwew 529]

10 hours ago, SubapbaP said:

Considering Turkey, Yugoslavia and South Korea are the only logical options, I genuinely believe Turkey will be the next independent nation if we ever get one. Yugoslavia has unique vehicles only at lower tiers and Gaijin doesn't care lower tiers as much as higher tiers. South Korea on the other hand doesn't have the growth rate of Turkey. This year(2023), the 100th anniversary of the Republic, a lot of development from various military areas such as aviation and unmanned vehicles is expected to happen. Combat drones also put Turkey above Yugoslavia and South Korea as Turkey is one of the leading countries in the world when it comes to drone technology.

 

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The tree

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M48A5T1

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M48A5T2

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M60A3 Fırat

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M60T

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M60TM Fırat(Pulat)

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Altay (2012)

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Altay (2015)

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Altay AHT

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Altay BMC

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Leopard 1A3

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Leopard 1T

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Leopard 2T1

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Leopard 2NG

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Leopard 2 BMC

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ACV-19 (90mm)

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Arma 6x6 (90mm)

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ACV-19 (BMP)

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Tulpar 105

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Kaplan MT

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Kaplan MT (Pulat)

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Arma 6x6 Omtas (2)

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Arma 6x6 Omtas (4)

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ACV-15 IFV (25mm)

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Arma 6x6 Bozok

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Tulpar IFV

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Kaplan 30 IFV

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Korhan

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Korhan (Akkor)

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Arma 8x8 Korhan

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Arma 8x8 L-UMTAS

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Cobra TOW

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ACV-15 HOT

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Tulpar-S Kornet (2)

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Tulpar-S Kornet (4)

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Arma 8x8 105

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Kaplan STA

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Pars STA

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Yalman

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Cobra 20

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Atılgan

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Sungur

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Korkut

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Hisar A

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Cobra SKIF

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T-155 Fırtına

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Ejder (Serdar)

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AV8 Gempita

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M60TM

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T84 Yatağan

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BMC Altuğ

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Saying that Yugoslavia has unique stuff only at lower ranks is utterly false.

If anything, lower ranks would be much less unique than the higher ones.

BOV series, M-84 series of MNT, M-90, BVP M-80 family, all the post-Yugoslav vehicles. This isn’t even mentioning the air tree that undeniably has more going for it than either Turkey or both Koreas combined.

As for drones, domestic production matters very little for the scope of the game. They don’t have a research tab and all nations get them regardless of if they operated the type given or not. Nevermind the fact that Serbia would have plenty of Chinese drones that could be picked from or their domestic Pegaz drone.

 

I do not say this to undermine Turkey and their developments, their appeal for the game is justified, but the statements regarding the Yugoslav tree are poorly informed.

[SubapbaP 32]

21 hours ago, Mahiwew said:

Saying that Yugoslavia has unique stuff only at lower ranks is utterly false.

If anything, lower ranks would be much less unique than the higher ones.

BOV series, M-84 series of MNT, M-90, BVP M-80 family, all the post-Yugoslav vehicles. This isn’t even mentioning the air tree that undeniably has more going for it than either Turkey or both Koreas combined.

A Sherman with a 122mm gun is more unique than a T-72 with an additional armour or some other improvements. We already have plenty of this kind of modernised high tier MBTs. T-72AV, Moderna, Gal Batash, M60 AMBT or a T-54 with a western 105mm gun are just a few examples. M-84s, M-90s and BVPs fall to this category. BOV vehicles yes they are good. But Yugoslavian MBTs have their analogues in the game. Uniqueness is a relative term. So I am not going to argue much on this but I believe lower tiers of Yugoslavia is more unique.

 

21 hours ago, Mahiwew said:

As for drones, domestic production matters very little for the scope of the game. They don’t have a research tab and all nations get them regardless of if they operated the type given or not. Nevermind the fact that Serbia would have plenty of Chinese drones that could be picked from or their domestic Pegaz drone.

How come domestic production doesn't matter? It is literally the first thing to look when adding a new nation.

We don't know too much about the future of drones in War Thunder. They don't have a tree YET. They may get their trees in the future. And having your own drone is always better than using someone else's.

 

21 hours ago, Mahiwew said:

I do not say this to undermine Turkey and their developments, their appeal for the game is justified, but the statements regarding the Yugoslav tree are poorly informed.

Just to make myself clear, Yugoslavia is a much better option than Turkey through and through. However as we understand by the addition of China and Israel, Gaijin has other factors and things when choosing the new nation. That's why I put Turkey above Yugoslavia.

[Mahiwew 529]

9 hours ago, SubapbaP said:

A Sherman with a 122mm gun is more unique than a T-72 with an additional armour or some other improvements. We already have plenty of this kind of modernised high tier MBTs. T-72AV, Moderna, Gal Batash, M60 AMBT or a T-54 with a western 105mm gun are just a few examples. M-84s, M-90s and BVPs fall to this category. BOV vehicles yes they are good. But Yugoslavian MBTs have their analogues in the game. Uniqueness is a relative term. So I am not going to argue much on this but I believe lower tiers of Yugoslavia is more unique.

M-84’s are upgraded T-72’s, sure, but they follow a separate path of development from the Soviet equipment. Much stronger engines, better armor, loads of prototypes with local FCS too, nevermind the modern iterations with domestic ERA too (Serbian M-84’s, Croatian M-84D has Israeli ERA). M-90 is fully domestically designed. It uses foreign components, but the tank itself isn’t derived from any other project.

BVP series are also domestic. Contrary to popular belief, they aren’t BMP’s. Other than Malyutka missiles there are no Soviet components on it.

These families, especially when bolstered by domestic Serbian projects, would lead to a tree as unique as the Turkish one at higher tiers.

At lower tiers there are a few gems, such as the aforementioned SO-122, but the majority of vehicles below 5.7 would be copy/paste with either very minor modifications or none at all.

 

9 hours ago, SubapbaP said:

How come domestic production doesn't matter? It is literally the first thing to look when adding a new nation.

We don't know too much about the future of drones in War Thunder. They don't have a tree YET. They may get their trees in the future. And having your own drone is always better than using someone else's.

I’m not saying it doesn’t, just that drones aren’t a significant part of the game as things stand now. One attack drone per nation isn’t really something major in my opinion.

 

9 hours ago, SubapbaP said:

Just to make myself clear, Yugoslavia is a much better option than Turkey through and through. However as we understand by the addition of China and Israel, Gaijin has other factors and things when choosing the new nation. That's why I put Turkey above Yugoslavia.

Indeed, the priority of which nations get added first is on Gaijin’s hand, I just wanted to clear up that Yugoslavia isn’t necessarily less unique than Turkey at higher tiers. Lazar and Milos series of vehicles for example could bolster Yugoslav numbers greatly. Both are good candidates nonetheless and I appreciate the mutual respect given.

[SubapbaP 32]

23 hours ago, Mahiwew said:

M-84’s are upgraded T-72’s, sure, but they follow a separate path of development from the Soviet equipment. Much stronger engines, better armor, loads of prototypes with local FCS too, nevermind the modern iterations with domestic ERA too (Serbian M-84’s, Croatian M-84D has Israeli ERA). M-90 is fully domestically designed. It uses foreign components, but the tank itself isn’t derived from any other project.

BVP series are also domestic. Contrary to popular belief, they aren’t BMP’s. Other than Malyutka missiles there are no Soviet components on it.

These families, especially when bolstered by domestic Serbian projects, would lead to a tree as unique as the Turkish one at higher tiers.

At lower tiers there are a few gems, such as the aforementioned SO-122, but the majority of vehicles below 5.7 would be copy/paste with either very minor modifications or none at all.

M-84s are simply based on T-72. As I said we already have modernized T-72s in the game. T-72AV has different and better FCS and T-72 Moderna has different era and a 30mm autocannon. So, M-84 level of uniqueness is already in the game. And as far as I understand from M-90, they are redesigned T-72s(M-84s actually) so that they can be produced locally with local parts. So they made a few tweaks to not to depend on foreign supply. Chinese ZTZs are also local projects. But the influence of Russian T- tanks on these Chinese MBTs are so obvious to overlook. I think M-90s and ZTZs are similar in this case.

 

The local designs of Yugoslavia such as the BVPs and M-90s look a LOT like Soviet equipment. I am not going to say they are copy/paste and disrespect Yugoslav engineers of course. These vehicles were probably redesigned by engineers so that they can produce them with local parts. So they look slightly different. This is what I think. But as far as uniqueness go in War Thunder, they aren't truly unique(Yes, they are unique designs but not for War Thunder's context.) Designing a brand new combat vehicle could very well be an expensive task so it is okay that countries choose different ways.

 

On 16/01/2023 at 19:45, Mahiwew said:

Indeed, the priority of which nations get added first is on Gaijin’s hand, I just wanted to clear up that Yugoslavia isn’t necessarily less unique than Turkey at higher tiers. Lazar and Milos series of vehicles for example could bolster Yugoslav numbers greatly. Both are good candidates nonetheless and I appreciate the mutual respect given.

Turkish MBTs actually have a worse position than Yugoslavian MBTs because most of them are simply light modernizations. Except Altay and few other heavily modernized ones like M60TM or BMC's Leopard modernization. The advantage of Turkey is simply growth rate. 10-15 years ago, there were almost no domestic Turkish combat products. But now they have their tanks, IFVs, SPAAs, SPHs, APCs, TDs with domestically produced guided missiles, unmanned ground vehicles, engines for their MBTs and so on. In the following years, there will be probably even more unique Turkish vehicles.

[Mahiwew 529]

18 minutes ago, SubapbaP said:

The local designs of Yugoslavia such as the BVPs and M-90s look a LOT like Soviet equipment. I am not going to say they are copy/paste and disrespect Yugoslav engineers of course. These vehicles were probably redesigned by engineers so that they can produce them with local parts. So they look slightly different. This is what I think. But as far as uniqueness go in War Thunder, they aren't truly unique(Yes, they are unique designs but not for War Thunder's context.) Designing a brand new combat vehicle could very well be an expensive task so it is okay that countries choose different ways.

The M-90 had a completely new hull and turret, it was a domestic tank.
It was inspired by Soviet design, but it was a local tank. The ZTZ-99 for example may look like a T-72, but it uses 0 Soviet or Russian components.

As for the BVP series, there was no redesigning at all, because it was made from scratch. It's like saying the Leopard 2 and Abrams are the same tanks purely on the basis of their looks.

 

18 minutes ago, SubapbaP said:

Turkish MBTs actually have a worse position than Yugoslavian MBTs because most of them are simply light modernizations. Except Altay and few other heavily modernized ones like M60TM or BMC's Leopard modernization. The advantage of Turkey is simply growth rate. 10-15 years ago, there were almost no domestic Turkish combat products. But now they have their tanks, IFVs, SPAAs, SPHs, APCs, TDs with domestically produced guided missiles, unmanned ground vehicles, engines for their MBTs and so on. In the following years, there will be probably even more unique Turkish vehicles.

Turkish arms industry has a bright future ahead of itself and I certainly hope this will expand into the aviation side of things. I don't doubt that they'd even be able to build a local jet fighter eventually.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Mahiwew

[Yontzee 1,676]

I can’t remember is @Dewastor (but props to him either way) or myself said this before but I think the T-72KAE should added but imo replace the M60AE as a premium and bump it to Battle Rating 10.0. 

It’s pretty natural at this point to have smaller defense industry nations in major tech trees. The T-72KAE has been jointly upgraded by both Kazakhstan and Turkey. Previous assistance came from Israel. It also adds a way to add Kazakhstan because they have some fun stuff.

T-72KAE main battle tank.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Yontzee

[lLiberté 345]

7 hours ago, Yontzee said:

I can’t remember is @Dewastor (but props to him either way) or myself said this before but I think the T-72KAE should added but imo replace the M60AE as a premium and bump it to Battle Rating 10.0. 

It’s pretty natural at this point to have smaller defense industry nations in major tech trees. The T-72KAE has been jointly upgraded by both Kazakhstan and Turkey. Previous assistance came from Israel. It also adds a way to add Kazakhstan because they have some fun stuff.

T-72KAE main battle tank.

 

  As far as I'm concerned M60AE is not a real vehicle, its much likely a photoshopped regular M60 or artistic rendition of M60A3T1, either way it has no place in TT. T-72KAE is a beautiful machine, it should be included in TTT but instead locking it behind a paywall, I envision it to be Squadron Vehicle alongside other cooperative/offered vehicle such as Arma and Tulpar IFV. 

 

  As a replacement of so called M60AE, there are few other options, a unique but simple modification of M60 that has been in service, allegedly, more than decade, Leopard 1T, Kaplan MMWT (Early) and M60TM (VOLKAN-M). 

 

  Israel could get their own earlier-varinat too if anyone manages to find information about it.

[SubapbaP 32]

On 17/01/2023 at 20:54, Mahiwew said:

The M-90 had a completely new hull and turret, it was a domestic tank.
It was inspired by Soviet design, but it was a local tank. The ZTZ-99 for example may look like a T-72, but it uses 0 Soviet or Russian components.

As for the BVP series, there was no redesigning at all, because it was made from scratch. It's like saying the Leopard 2 and Abrams are the same tanks purely on the basis of their looks.

Seems like we are not going to reach a consensus. As I said uniqueness is a relative term and I see no point in further discussion.

[Mahiwew 529]

9 hours ago, SubapbaP said:

Seems like we are not going to reach a consensus. As I said uniqueness is a relative term and I see no point in further discussion.

I’m not quite sure if there is a consensus to be reached, the aforementioned simply aren’t like Soviet vehicles (other than perhaps M-84’s, depending on your point of view). The point of M-90 being a T-72 that was redesigned to allow local production doesn’t add up, because M-84’s were all locally produced already.

BVP M-80 series is nothing like Soviet vehicles, because no Soviet IFV was armed with a 20mm autocannon and more modern variants have local 30’s that function differently than Soviet ones (being more akin to the 25mm Bushmasters for the purposes of War Thunder). Nevermind the French and German engines and domestically modernized Malyutka’s that perform equal to or better than some Konkurs variants.

The point simply is that they are unique vehicles not present in other nations and that there are many vehicles that could build up Yugoslav high tier to be as good, if not better than the Turkish.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Mahiwew

[Yontzee 1,676]

Korkut

The Korkut Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft vehicle capable of firing all 35mm NATO ammunition as well as the Turkish ATOM Airburst round. If I'm not mistaken, can also equip Stinger missiles as well. This thing would absolutely shred all types of vehicles, especially if it was given FAPDS-T rounds. It would be limited on mobility however, as it still uses a modified M113 platform that can only use so much extra addon armor due to suspension limitations. 

 

Easy 9.7+ if given FAPDS-T rounds, ATOM rounds, and Stingers.

 

I really want to see this added to the game. This and a standard Gepard 1A2 (w/ LRF) that can use the deadly FAPDS-T rounds. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Yontzee

[MasterOfUltramar 1,711]

As a subtree or multiple nation tree yes. But as independent tree, nope.

[Mahiwew 529]

9 hours ago, GuyCBRN said:

As a subtree or multiple nation tree yes. But as independent tree, nope.

What nations would you combine with it and why?

[Rambolf 371]

8 minutes ago, Mahiwew said:

What nations would you combine with it and why?

Israel maybe idk, only thing I can think off tbh....

[Yontzee 1,676]

37 minutes ago, Rambolf said:

Israel maybe idk, only thing I can think off tbh....

I agree. I’d like to see it as it’s own tree but as a sub-tree, the only nation that has the room for a sub-tree like Turkey is Israel. That’s not my opinion, it’s just realistically the only one that could fit (most of) Turkey right now and has some form of connection to it. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Yontzee