Early Chinese SPAA?

[gunthrum 60]

Simply wondering when the first two Chinese SPAA vehicles both labelled as "soon" in the Chinese tech tree will be arriving in game.

 

 

 

 

[magazine2 7,957]

Soon 

[Tubby_Vermin 2,161]

Very Soon™

[CaID 8,996]

I don't think the SD.kfz.222  should be a SPAA. It was a recon/armoured car and while the elevation is good enough, the rotation isn't.

 

It believes we could have the M2a1 halftrack apc could be a better option. A open top light armoured chassis with a 12.7mm m2hb on a 360 degree rotation, nearly 90 degree elevation and a additional 7.62mm m1919. Sound better than the Gaz AAA already.

 

Remember china never had the PzGr.40 round for the 20mm of the SD.kfz.222 and the German shall also get the SD.kfz.222 who is unneeded as SPAA in the German tree. While the m2a1 could also be added in the US tree just before the M13 mgc without problem.

 

Rank 2 could have a quad 12.7mm M45 mounted on the GMC cckw-553 

 

And since we are at it, we could remove the type65 who was not Chinese but Vietnamese. China have something similar but a bit better. The 301 SPAA who was having the same gun but a rounded turret and a type 62 light tank chassis

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by CaID

[CaID 8,996]

For you question. Its the SD.kfz.222 who had been sold in China in the mid 30s with little turret modification over the German model (no commander slight and the gun and coax was inverted left to right.) 

 

 

 

And the type 63 APC with 23mm auto-cannon. A bit too good for rank 2 but could go rank 3 I believe.

 

As far I can tell, Gaijin work on those 2 ATM but I be live the first shouldn't be in SPAA line and the second not be before the type 65. So we aren't much more advanced.

Edited February 12, 2020 by CaID

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

On 11/02/2020 at 20:02, CaID said:

I don't think the SD.kfz.222  should be a SPAA. It was a recon/armoured car and while the elevation is good enough, the rotation isn't.

 

To be fair though, the R3 T20 FA-HS was also built to be a recon vehicle, but in game it works very well as an anti-aircraft vehicle. You could probably find a few Chinese APCs/IFVs that could work as an anti-aircraft vehicle, like the WZ-551B.
 

[CaID 8,996]

On 14/02/2020 at 20:19, Shamshael said:

To be fair though, the R3 T20 FA-HS was also built to be a recon vehicle, but in game it works very well as an anti-aircraft vehicle. You could probably find a few Chinese APCs/IFVs that could work as an anti-aircraft vehicle, like the WZ-551B.
 

well, at the oposite of the Sd.Kfz.222, the R3 T20 was armed to defend himself against Helicopter. while the Sd.Kfz.222 wasn't really plane to track any air target. the turret rotation is quit low.

 

for anti-aircraft in the chinese tree, i built a uncomplet but very wide list of SPAA that could be built as a line. only i still have the Type 65 SPAAG and the Type 63 APC is placed rank 4. but obviously could be a rank 3 in his BR. the GMC cckw-553  is also missing. it could be BR 2.0 or so. might even be rank 2 if we need a gap filler but also could be rank 1 material.

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2020 by CaID

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

6 hours ago, CaID said:

well, at the oposite of the Sd.Kfz.222, the R3 T20 was armed to defend himself against Helicopter. while the Sd.Kfz.222 wasn't really plane to track any air target. the turret rotation is quit low.

 

for anti-aircraft in the chinese tree, i built a uncomplet but very wide list of SPAA that could be built as a line. only i still have the Type 65 SPAAG and the Type 63 APC is placed rank 4. but obviously could be a rank 3 in his BR. the GMC cckw-553  is also missing. it could be BR 2.0 or so. might even be rank 2 if we need a gap filler but also could be rank 1 material.

 

 

 

That is fair enough, I guess we will have to see how the Sd.kfz 222 is when or if it comes out. I just want China to have something before 5.3, you know? I also very much so like your list, I think there is a lot of good options in there. I do have some doubts about tier 1, as I feel two 7.62s, and one 12.7 on a halftrack might not be 'enough'. In any case, the Type 56 would make a great anti-air vehicle for lower tiers.

[CaID 8,996]

27 minutes ago, Shamshael said:

That is fair enough, I guess we will have to see how the Sd.kfz 222 is when or if it comes out. I just want China to have something before 5.3, you know? I also very much so like your list, I think there is a lot of good options in there. I do have some doubts about tier 1, as I feel two 7.62s, and one 12.7 on a halftrack might not be 'enough'. In any case, the Type 56 would make a great anti-air vehicle for lower tiers.

If referring to the M2a1 halftrack. Just compare it to the GAZ-AAA (DShK). The gas have no armour and the 12.7mm DHsK have a limited rotation. The M2a1 have armour, larger crew, 360 degree rotation for the 12.7mm and additional 7.62mm. I believe it's good enough. The M13 MGMC have 2x 12.7mm only in a 360 degree rotation turret who have a blind spot on the front and the same armour. 

 

For the m3a1, the main gun is a type 24 which is a Chinese version of the MG08 who have a penetration of 13 to 10mm in short range. Nothing to be impressed about but still better than the GAZ-AAA 4m. Sure the maxim 7,62 model 1910 of the Gaz-AAA have 4 gun but they have a fire rate of 1000 rpm total. The mg 08 have a RoF of 500 rpm alone and the m1919 have 400 to 600 rpm. So those two gun are superior to the 4 Russian one. And the M3a1 have some armour that may save you from the LMG fire.

 

They may not be the ultimate SPAA but they are potent starter meterial

[blockhaj 3,560]

On 15/02/2020 at 02:19, Shamshael said:

To be fair though, the R3 T20 FA-HS was also built to be a recon vehicle, but in game it works very well as an anti-aircraft vehicle. You could probably find a few Chinese APCs/IFVs that could work as an anti-aircraft vehicle, like the WZ-551B.
 

The R3 T20 is generally hated by the community and putting it at tier 3 was a mistake. Its a 1980's vehicle equipped with a 3 axis stabilizer facing ww2 vehicles. Adding equivalent vehicles to the Chinese tree is a big no no for me.

@CaID
Imo this is a perfect addition for a tier 2 Chines SPAA, its unique and period correct.

[CaID 8,996]

22 hours ago, blockhaj said:

The R3 T20 is generally hated by the community and putting it at tier 3 was a mistake. Its a 1980's vehicle equipped with a 3 axis stabilizer facing ww2 vehicles. Adding equivalent vehicles to the Chinese tree is a big no no for me.

@CaID
Imo this is a perfect addition for a tier 2 Chines SPAA, its unique and period correct.

yes, as i mention above a few message before. i just didn't put it in the SPAA list as i just forget that one.

[blockhaj 3,560]

12 minutes ago, CaID said:

yes, as i mention above a few message before. i just didn't put it in the SPAA list as i just forget that one.

You should try to find more info on it so we can implement it.

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

On 16/02/2020 at 19:25, CaID said:

If referring to the M2a1 halftrack. Just compare it to the GAZ-AAA (DShK). The gas have no armour and the 12.7mm DHsK have a limited rotation. The M2a1 have armour, larger crew, 360 degree rotation for the 12.7mm and additional 7.62mm. I believe it's good enough. The M13 MGMC have 2x 12.7mm only in a 360 degree rotation turret who have a blind spot on the front and the same armour. 

 

For the m3a1, the main gun is a type 24 which is a Chinese version of the MG08 who have a penetration of 13 to 10mm in short range. Nothing to be impressed about but still better than the GAZ-AAA 4m. Sure the maxim 7,62 model 1910 of the Gaz-AAA have 4 gun but they have a fire rate of 1000 rpm total. The mg 08 have a RoF of 500 rpm alone and the m1919 have 400 to 600 rpm. So those two gun are superior to the 4 Russian one. And the M3a1 have some armour that may save you from the LMG fire.

 

They may not be the ultimate SPAA but they are potent starter meterial

Well, it does seem to be all we have available, so I am for it if not the Sd.kfz 222.

On 16/02/2020 at 19:38, blockhaj said:

The R3 T20 is generally hated by the community and putting it at tier 3 was a mistake. Its a 1980's vehicle equipped with a 3 axis stabilizer facing ww2 vehicles. Adding equivalent vehicles to the Chinese tree is a big no no for me.

@CaID
Imo this is a perfect addition for a tier 2 Chines SPAA, its unique and period correct.

It is not really an equivalent. The WZ-133B is not stabilized, and has a 25mm gun firing at approximately 200 RPM max. It would be fast and likely have APDS, but I am hoping they will still put it at an appropriate battle rating.

[blockhaj 3,560]

3 hours ago, Shamshael said:

Well, it does seem to be all we have available, so I am for it if not the Sd.kfz 222.

It is not really an equivalent. The WZ-133B is not stabilized, and has a 25mm gun firing at approximately 200 RPM max. It would be fast and likely have APDS, but I am hoping they will still put it at an appropriate battle rating.

But thats beside the point, it would be a modern vehicle fighting ww2 vehicles.

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

8 hours ago, blockhaj said:

But thats beside the point, it would be a modern vehicle fighting ww2 vehicles.

It is not like that has never happened before. I only brought it up originally to show how a vehicle built for recon or another purpose can serve as an anti-aircraft vehicle. I really do not want to argue with anyone over something being taken out of the original context. But, as you say, that is besides the point. Hopefully we can see the suggested vehicles early on, as China does seem to lack pre-WWII and WWII anti-aircraft vehicles.

[GoddePro 1,147]

On 12/02/2020 at 12:14, CaID said:

And the type 63 APC with 23mm auto-cannon. A bit too good for rank 2 but could go rank 3 I believe.

 

As far I can tell, Gaijin work on those 2 ATM but I be live the first shouldn't be in SPAA line and the second not be before the type 65. So we aren't much more advanced.

lol rank II here it comes :P

I wouldn't be surprised if we se SD.kfz.222 in the next devblog update too.

[DreamADream4Me 2,838]

11 hours ago, GoddePro said:

lol rank II here it comes :P

I wouldn't be surprised if we se SD.kfz.222 in the next devblog update too.

 

It has practically no armor. R3 FA HS will rip it to shreds while doing donuts around it at 120kmh fully stabilized without needing to reload with 65mm pen ammo (remember, 8.0 Shilka has some 46mm of pen with AP belt).

[GoddePro 1,147]

2 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

 

It has practically no armor. R3 FA HS will rip it to shreds while doing donuts around it at 120kmh fully stabilized without needing to reload with 65mm pen ammo (remember, 8.0 Shilka has some 46mm of pen with AP belt).

doesn't mean it belongs at 3.7 too

IMO judge it by its AA effectiveness not by its AT effectiveness. It's a SPAA not a TD, you've got enough of those in the Chinese tree already. Don't you want something actually useful in the AA role?

[DreamADream4Me 2,838]

19 hours ago, GoddePro said:

doesn't mean it belongs at 3.7 too

 

We don't know it's BR yet. Plus, Tier2 goes up to 4.7.

 

 

19 hours ago, GoddePro said:

Don't you want something actually useful in the AA role?

 

Yes, I do, but that doesn't mean that what we ARE getting should be nerfed before it even appears on dev server because Gaijin will again get scared of communist bias accusations and ruin a vehicle to appease NATO fanboys. And it WILL get nerfed if it gets too much negative response, in fact the whining and hate in devblogs alone could contribute to that.

Edited May 8, 2020 by jackTIGR

[Jarms 1,558]

12 hours ago, jackTIGR said:

 

We don't know it's BR yet. Plus, Tier2 goes up to 4.7.

 

Which rank II vehicle is 4.7? Because I would be okay with that BR for the new Chinese SPAA. 

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

5 hours ago, Jarms said:

Which rank II vehicle is 4.7? Because I would be okay with that BR for the new Chinese SPAA. 

The highest battle rating I can see for a ground vehicle is the American T14, at 4.3.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Shamshael

[GoddePro 1,147]

15 hours ago, Shamshael said:

The highest battle rating I can see for a ground vehicle is the American T14, at 4.3.

IMO if it's over 3.7, then I don't see why you wouldn't put it at rank III, at least it'll get some proper earnings then

[DreamADream4Me 2,838]

14 hours ago, GoddePro said:

IMO if it's over 3.7, then I don't see why you wouldn't put it at rank III, at least it'll get some proper earnings then

 

That's precisely the reason why they would put it at tier 2 to "balance it out" by not making it earn much.

 

Best example: I-153 M62 and Zhukovsky. The M62 has only 0.4x lion reward while Zhukovsky only 0.3x which is I think the lowest qualifier for a PREMIUM vehicle in game - you earn less with this premium plane than you would with a regular tree vehicle at same BR THAT's how nerfed it's income is. M62 was also moved from Tier 2 into Tier 1. And I think that premium I-153P (the dead duck, RIP 2018) was moved from Tier 3 into Tier 2.

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

20 hours ago, GoddePro said:

IMO if it's over 3.7, then I don't see why you wouldn't put it at rank III, at least it'll get some proper earnings then

I honestly think they should put it at 3.7 to test the waters and see how it performs. If it does too well, then by all means move it up. I can not see a rank II vehicle being higher than 4.3, unless they decide to change what tier it is at.

[GoddePro 1,147]

14 minutes ago, Shamshael said:

I honestly think they should put it at 3.7 to test the waters and see how it performs. If it does too well, then by all means move it up. I can not see a rank II vehicle being higher than 4.3, unless they decide to change what tier it is at.

at this point, we may as well just wait and see