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  1. 1. Which Variants Would You Like?

    • Sk 60B (Production Trainer / Attacker Variant)
      98
    • Sk 60C (Production Recon / Attacker; Sk 60B With Long Camera Nose, Otherwise Identical)
      81
    • Saab 105G (600mph Re-Engined Prototype With 2000kg Of Payload)
      104
    • I Don't Know
      3
    • None Of Them
      1
  2. 2. If Added, Which Vehicles Should Be Researchable?

    • Sk 60B (Production Trainer / Attacker Variant)
      87
    • Sk 60C (Production Recon / Attacker; Sk 60B With Long Camera Nose, Otherwise Identical)
      59
    • Saab 105G (600mph Re-Engined Prototype With 2000kg Of Payload)
      70
    • I Don't Know
      9
    • None Of Them
      1
  3. 3. If Added, Which Variants Should Be Premium?

    • Sk 60B (Production Trainer / Attacker Variant)
      17
    • Sk 60C (Production Recon / Attacker; Sk 60B With Long Camera Nose, Otherwise Identical)
      27
    • Saab 105G (600mph Re-Engined Prototype With 2000kg Of Payload)
      43
    • I Don't Know
      11
    • None Of Them
      36
  4. 4. If Added, Which Variants Should Be Event / Tournament / Squadron Rewards?

    • Sk 60B (Production Trainer / Attacker Variant)
      12
    • Sk 60C (Production Recon / Attacker; Sk 60B With Long Camera Nose, Otherwise Identical)
      21
    • Saab 105G (600mph Re-Engined Prototype With 2000kg Of Payload)
      19
    • I Don't Know
      13
    • None Of Them
      70
  5. 5. If Sk 60B And Sk 60C Were Both Researchable, Given That They're Functionally Identical How Should They Be Differentiated?

    • Give One AAMs At A Higher BR, One Without At A Lower BR
      14
    • Give One AIM-9Js At A Higher BR, One Without Slightly Lower
      28
    • Leave Their Armament Identical, But Give One the 1993 "Sk 60W" Engine Upgrade
      20
    • Don't Differentiate Them At All
      16
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      36
    • Other (Please Comment)
      0
    • I Don't Want These Planes
      1
  6. 6. How Should The 1993 "Sk 60W" Engine Upgrade Be Implemented?

    • As Separate Vehicles (e.g. You Could Have Both Sk 60B & Sk 60B (1993) In A Lineup)
      32
    • As A Researchable Modification For The Base Models (After All, The Re-Engined Sk 60B Was Still An Sk 60B)
      25
    • As Default For Both Models
      4
    • As Default For One Model, To Make It Different From The Other
      13
    • As A Modification For One Model, To Make It Different From The Other
      11
    • I Don't Know
      27
    • Other (Please Comment)
      1
    • I Don't Want It
      1
    • I Don't Want These Planes
      1
  7. 7. If Added, What BR Range Should They Be?

    • 4.0-4.7
      0
    • 5.0-5.7
      1
    • 6.0-6.7
      8
    • 7.0-7.7
      34
    • 8.0-8.7
      35
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      35
    • Other (Please Comment)
      1
    • I Don't Want Them
      1
  8. 8. If Added, What Camos Would You Like To See? (Multiple Choice; Example Images Available At Bottom Of Post)

    • Standard Bicolour Green & Brown Scheme
      98
    • Standard Bicolour Black & Dark Brown
      85
    • Standard Unpainted Metal Training Scheme
      75
    • Team 60 Display Livery (Green & Brown Upper Surfaces With Sky Blue Tail & Underside, Yellow Stripes On The Wings' Sky Blue Undersides, And "FLYGVAPNET" Across The Top Of The Wings)
      73
    • Second Prototype "SE-XBZ" Original Livery (Horizontal Striped Pattern Of Red, Yellow & Blue; Forms The Yellow Cross On Blue Of The Swedish Flag On The Tail)
      67
    • Early Prototype / Foreign Sales Scheme (Unpainted Metal With One Thick Black And One Thin Red Stripe Running Horizontally Along The Middle Of The Fuselage)
      65
    • Saab 105G Monocolour Medium Brown Scheme
      80


The Saab 105 (designated Sk 60 in Swedish service) is a 1960s Swedish multirole jet aircraft primarily serving as a trainer, but also as an air defence fighter, a light ground attacker, and a photoreconnaisance plane. First flying in 1963, the Saab 105 is one of Sweden's most successful and long-lived military jets and remains in service with both Sweden and Austria, though Sweden is now looking to replace their aircraft. Though it carries no fixed armament, a combination of gun pods, bombs, rockets and missiles (both air-to-air and air-to-ground) can be carried, suiting it to almost any role. Though the Sk 60 design has many variants, not all of them are suitable for War Thunder, so this suggestion is for the Sk 60B attacker, the Sk 60C photorecon / attack plane, the 1993 "Sk 60(W)" upgrade package, and the Saab 105XT / 105G export prototype.

 

36112342702_406d2dfea2_b.jpg

 

History:

 

The Saab 105 began development in 1959 as a private venture, the company intending from the very start for the aircraft to fill multiple different roles (a sensible choice for a private venture, since it provides a wider range of potential customers. This, aside from being Saab's attempt at breaking into the business jet market, meant that the plane was capable of a number of military applications equal, and in some cases in excess of, the class of light attack / trainers that would form and thrive in later years. The '105 could carry all of Sweden's then-current unguided rockets, standard 250kg bombs, Rb 24 air-to-air missiles (AIM-9 Sidewinders) and Rb 05 air-to-surface missiles, as well as two different gun pods: 12.7mms for practice, and 30mm Akans for combat. Though Saab's hopes of a business jet breakthrough didn't come to fruition with the Saab 105, its future as a military aircraft was far brighter. Enthusiastic about Saab's proposed design, the Swedish military committed to an order of at least 100 aircraft so long as the prototype lived up to Saab's promises during flight testing, and after tests in both Sweden and France (the latter conducted by the French company Turbomeca, who developed the 105's engines) they ordered 130, to be designated Sk 60.

 

7609766690_399abb153d_b.jpg

An Sk 60B of display group Team 60.

 

Following the successful 1963 prototype, the initial production focused on three variants: the Sk 60A trainer, Sk 60B attacker, and Sk 60C photorecon-attacker; while all three usually flew with a crew of two, the Sk 60A was able to fly with four crew in non-ejecting seats, and the Sk 60C could also do so with modifications, mainly by swapping its ejector seats to a smaller type (unfortunately for the passengers, only the C's pilot and copilot had ejector seats). The Sk 60C was developed later than the other early models: its prototype flying in 1967, the same year the A & B were already entering service, and was the 150th and final Saab 105 to be built, with all other Sk 60Cs being conversions of As and Bs. The Sk 60A, B and C were only the first variants, however, since as to be expected from an aircraft that's served since 1967, the Saab 105 had numerous improved models, though not all were successful. Immediately following the initial trio was the Saab 105XT, an enhanced version with vastly improved General Electric J85 engines intended for export, which was converted from the second prototype. Though the Saab 105 was largely an export failure in both civil and military forms, the 105XT caught the attention of Austria, whose Air Force were already owners of Saab's J29 "Tunnan" fighters, and who were seeking a replacement for both their J29s and their DeHavilland Vampires. The Austrian Air Force eventually purchased 40 of an improved version of the XT, designated the Saab 105Ö (for Österreich / Austria), after Saab further tailored to Austria's needs with strengthened wings for heavier payloads; these planes entered service in 1970 and are still in use. 

 

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A long-nosed Sk 60 recon-attacker with gunpods and four rockets.

 

The next Swedish version, converted from Sk 60As later in the 1970s, was the Sk 60D transport. This largely took on the original business jet configuration, with four airline-style seats replacing the usual pair of ejector seats, though these could be replaced (as with the four-seat conversions of the Sk 60C for long flights) with a more basic seat that could accommodate crew wearing parachutes. The Sk 60E was a similar variant that was ultimately converted to D standard, which featured civilian avionics and controls in order to train reserve pilots of the Flygvapnet to fly civil aircraft, and another transport model, the Saab 105D, was marketed as a more refined business jet but once more failed to sell. The Saab 105XT was later modified again as the Saab 105G, taking on a form very similar to the Austrian Saab 105Ö with modified stronger wings (in photos it can be seen carrying 6x 250kg bombs, more than twice the 700kg limit of most Saab 105s), an even more powerful J85s producing 12.85 kN of thrust (the XT & Ö' had 12.68 kN J85s), and a precision nav/attack system as part of an overall avionics overhaul. Since the G seems to match most of the Ö's upgrades, it's possible that it was the final form of the XT prior to the Austrian sale, but given the even better engines and more modern avionics it seems more likely that it was converted from the XT after the sale, in which case it seems not to have sold. An even further upgrade of the 105 was proposed for Switzerland, the 105H (for Helvetica, the Latin name for Switzerland), but despite even more upgrades including a fuselage-mounted 30mm cannon, a braking chute and a laser rangefinder, this too failed to sell, Hawker Hunters and Northrop F-5E Tiger IIs being chosen instead. A similar proposal for Finland, the Saab 105S, met the same fate; neither were built, even as prototypes.

 

ci15.jpg

The Saab 105G prototype in the air.

 

The current newest variant, informally known as the Sk 60W, was created in 1993, primarily setting out to replace the plane's veteran Turbomeca engines (which had been designed specifically for the plane, and had served for ~30 years at this point) with a newer, more efficient powerplant. The new engines, Williams International FJ44s, produced 1.15 kN more thrust than the old RM9s had, while also being lighter, quieter, more fuel efficient and far easier to maintain. With the Williams engines, the so-called Sk 60W could reach 6000m altitude 30% faster, was 25% more fuel efficient while cruising and 14% more efficient at max thrust, had improved turning characteristics (helped in part by the reduced weight), and had a takeoff distance a full 80m shorter. As well as the engines, the 115 Sk 60As, Bs and Cs converted gained digital engine controls to match, bringing them back up to standard for service, and to facilitate the long post-upgrade service intended for the "W" models, all of the D/E transports were taken out of service for use as parts hulks. Although "Sk 60W" is the best-known name for the type, this was only ever an informal designation within Saab itself, and the upgraded planes simply retained their original letter designation afterwards: since any planes without the new engines were exiting service, there was no need to differentiate between them by changing the designation. These planes remain in service in training and second-line attack roles with the Flygvapnet, though a replacement for the aging Sk 60s, which at this point are nearly 50 years old, is currently being sought. While not as flashy as Saab's fully-fledged fighters like the Draken and Viggen, the Saab 105 is nevertheless one of the company's most significant planes, its long and successful service with both its operators showing how well-designed this '60s jet has turned out to be. An undeniable piece of Swedish history, and a pretty formidable ground attacker, I believe the Sk 60 more than deserves a spot in War Thunder.

 

The Rb 05 Air-to-Surface Missile:

 

The Rb 05 was an air-to-surface missile designed as the armament of the AJ 37 Viggen, which entered service in 1971. Although many internet sources state that the Saab 105 never operationally carried these weapons (the Viggen, the Rb 05's primary carrier, is often claimed to be its sole platform), Saab's own advert for the plane directly contradicts this claim. In actual fact, the missile was intended as an option for the Sk 60 right from the design phase, and both Sk 60Bs and Cs carried the practice version in training missions just like the AJ and AJS Viggen attackers. Though it was later replaced by the AGM-65 Maverick, which Sweden designated Rb 75, the Rb 05 was quite sophisticated for its time: it had a smokeless engine so that the pilot could easily keep track of both the target and the guidance flare in the missile's tail, and was roll-stabilised and manouvrable for its type, allowing the plane to launch from angles other than straight towards the target, which made the launch aircraft less vulnerable. The Rb 05 was guided optically via joystick, using the flare to indicate the missile's position, which makes it more similar to the Fritz-X (PC-1800X) bomb currently implemented in War Thunder than it is to the TV-guided AGM-12 Bullpup, which is naturally easier to aim.

 

image.png.5a0e0fb8be8715dfb45dba3d52be30ci08.jpg

The Rb 05A on an Sk 60C and an Sk 60 prototype.

 

One source, the otherwise accurate Air Force Magazine issue focusing on the Saab 105, implies that the Sk 60's Rb 05As were self-guided via a primitive-sounding lock-on system, but I can find nothing on this kind of guidance for the missile and even the writer admits this is what they expect it to have, rather than official information (the issue is from 1969, when the Rb 05 was still in testing, so naturally its capabilities were still classified). The prototype Rb 05B was TV guided, but it was developed later and Sweden chose the AGM-65 Maverick instead, which seemed more cost-effective than developing a new Rb 05 variant to do the same thing. The Rb 05, somewhat unusually for a ground attack missile, had a proximity-detonated HE warhead rather than direct-impact HEAT; while this would reduce the need for exacting precision against the target, it would also reduce the armour penetration compared to the multiple-hundred-mm usually boasted by HEAT ASMs. From the air, however, it would be quite easy for Sk 60 pilots to hit the thin roofs of their targets with this missile, so the proximity fuse may prove more help than hindrance in practice, especially since it has much more HE filler than Type 75's 6.98kg (9.14kg TNT equivalent) and should therefore be able to penetrate more armour and kill from greater distances. In trials, the Swedish Air Force also found the Rb 05 capable of air-to-air use against large or slow aircraft like transports, as well as against helicopters, with the proximity fuse and large warhead making it quite lethal against aircraft, so long as the target is unmanoeuvrable enough to hit in the first place. Since War Thunder is the game of people who kill jet fighters with such unlikely weapons as the Swordfish's torpedo, I have no doubt some intrepid players would be able to replicate the Swedes' results. 

 

Specifications (Rb 05 ASM):

Saab_Rb_05_%2801%29.jpg

Length: 3.6m 

Wingspan: 0.8m 

Diameter: 0.3m

Weight: 305 kg

Warhead: 160 kg proximity HE (<10m trigger radius)

Propulsion: liquid rocket motor

Guidance: Manually-aimed, radar-guided

Speed: >Mach 1

Range: 9km

 

Specifications (Sk 60B/C/"W" & Saab 105G):

 

215-2.jpg

 

Length: 10.8m (B/XT only; C has longer nose)

Wingspan: 9.5m 

Height: 2.7m

Weight (Empty): 2849 kg

Weight (MTOW): 4635 kg

Crew: 2 (2-4 for Sk 60C)

Engines:

--- Sk 60B/C: 2x Volvo Flygmotor RM9B (Turbomeca Aubisque 1A) turbojet engines (7.3 kN thrust)

--- Sk 60(W): 2x RM15 (Williams FJ44-1) turbojet engines (8.45 kN thrust)

--- Saab 105G: 2x General Electric J85-17B turbojet engines (12.85 kN thrust)

Max Speed:

--- Sk 60B/C: 466 mph (750 kph)

--- Sk 60(W): 484.67 mph (780 kph)

--- Saab 105G: 600 mph (970 kph)

Rate of Climb:

--- Sk 60B/C: Unknown, <70 m/s (Est. 53.8 m/s, based on the "W" variants being known to climb 30% faster)

--- Sk 60(W): 70 m/s 

--- Saab 105G: 75 m/s

Service Ceiling:

--- Sk 60B/C: 12000m (39370 ft)

--- Sk 60(W): 13500m (44291 ft) 

--- Saab 105G: 13700m (44948 ft)

Braking Chute: None

Armour: None

Fixed Armament: None

Suspended Armament: 700kg of gun pods, rockets, bombs and missiles across 6 pylons (Saab 105G can carry 6x 250kg bombs, and the preceding XT is stated to have a 4500lb / 2041 kg max payload)

 

Suspended Armament List:

--- 12.7mm & 30mm Akan gun pods (maximum of 2) 

--- 250kg bombs (maximum of 2)

--- Rb 24 air-to-air missiles (AIM-9B & J Sidewinders; usually 2 but up to 4 can be carried) 

--- 75mm unguided rocket pods (1 per pylon)

--- 135mm unguided rockets (2 per pylon)

--- 145mm unguided anti-ship rockets (1 per pylon)

--- Rb 05 air-to-surface missiles (maximum of 2)

 

Potential Armament Loadouts (Sk 60B/C):

 

Spoiler

 

Air Defence Fighter (Training): 2-4x Rb 24 (AIM-9B or J) AAMs & 2x 12.7mm gun pods (unknown rpg)

Air Defence Fighter (Combat): 2-4x Rb 24 (AIM-9B or J) AAMs & 30mm Akan gun pods (150 rpg)

---

Close Air Support (Missile) #1: 2x Rb 24 (AIM-9B or J) AAMs & 4x 145mm anti-ship rockets 

Close Air Support (Missile) #2: 2x Rb 24 (AIM-9B or J) AAMs & 4x 75mm multiple-rocket pods

Close Air Support (Missile) #3: 2x Rb 24 (AIM-9B or J) AAMs & 8x 135mm rockets 

Close Air Support (Missile) #4: 2x Rb 24 (AIM-9B or J) AAMs & 2x 250kg bombs

---

Close Air Support (Gun) #1: 2x 12.7mm or 30mm gun pods (?/150 rpg) & 4x 145mm anti-ship rockets

Close Air Support (Gun) #1: 2x 12.7mm or 30mm gun pods (?/150 rpg) & 4x 75mm multiple-rocket pods 

Close Air Support (Gun) #3: 2x 12.7mm or 30mm gun pods (?/150 rpg) & 8x 135mm rockets 

Close Air Support (Gun) #4: 2x 12.7mm or 30mm gun pods (?/150 rpg) & 2x 250kg bombs

---

Close Air Support (Bomb) #1: 2x 250kg bombs & 4x 145mm anti-ship rockets 

Close Air Support (Bomb) #2: 2x 250kg bombs & 4x 75mm multiple-rocket pods  

Close Air Support (Bomb) #3: 2x 250kg bombs & 8x 135mm rockets 

---   

Close Air Support (Rocket) #1: 6x 145mm anti-ship rockets 

Close Air Support (Rocket) #2: 6x 75mm multiple-rocket pods  

Close Air Support (Rocket) #3: 12x 135mm rockets  

---

Anti-Shipping #1: 2x Rb 05 ASMs & 2x Rb 24 (AIM-9B or J) AAMs

Anti-Shipping #2: 2x Rb 05 ASMs & 4x 145mm anti-ship rockets  

Anti-Shipping #3: 2x Rb 05 ASMs & 8x 127mm or 135mm rockets  

 

 

Its Place In War Thunder:

 

Though the Swedish air tree already has some fantastic and varied planes, there's clearly also room for more, so it stands to reason that a home-grown plane with the capabilities and service record of the Saab 105 would fit right in. Its most limiting factor is speed, compounded by the fact that all its armament is external: while carrying some very impressive weapons and sporting a pretty decent rate of climb, it is less than 100mph faster than the propeller-driven A21A, and slower than the jet-powered A21RB by about the same amount. Given that its missiles are only ever carried in pairs, and may be more difficult to use against more manoeuvrable prop planes than they are against jets, it might be a good idea to situate the plane at quite a low BR for a jet. The 5.3 BR of the P-59A, while in my opinion much too low for that plane, may be a decent starting point for this little jet. There's certainly a gaping BR gap between the A21s -- the A21A sits at just 3.3, while the jet-powered A21RB is all the way up at 6.7 -- that the Saab 105s could fit quite happily in with the right BR. Manoeuvrability and some powerful weapons (the Air Defence loadout of 30mm Akan pods and Sidewinders is especially potent) should make it fairly competitive in air battles, while the wide range of bombs, rockets and missiles available for ground attack may mean it finds its true calling in ground battles. The Sk 60B and C are quite similar, so either one would have to be premium or their loadouts would have to be made artificially different (if it was given no missiles, the more recon/attack-oriented C could sit at a lower BR, creating a similar dynamic to the Ar 234s, where one has guns and the other doesn't). Being a one-off prototype, the Saab 105G might be the better choice as premium, but on the other hand its vastly better speed of 600 mph would also make it a good contender for a main tree vehicle, where it could easily follow the A21RB or even the J28B. I'm definitely open to suggestions on where each individual model should go, but I do think we need at least one of them in the tree.

 

I hope you like these planes, and I look forward to hearing from you in the comments!

 

Video Of A Display Team Sk 60:

 

This video of one of Team 60's Sk 60s performing a display gets its excellent manoeuvrability across pretty well.

 

Possible Camos:

 

Spoiler

Saab_105OE_10.jpg

A black and dark brown sheme common with Sk 60s; the belly is light grey.

 

Saab-sk60A-F5-60113_03.png

The standard brown and green camo used by most Sk 60Bs.

 

Saab-sk60A-F5-60140_03.png

The silver scheme used by some Sk 60A trainers.

 

Saab-sk60A-in-Flight-2-900x602.jpg

A variant on the silver / unpainted metal trainer scheme celebrating the plane's 50th anniversary.

 

No photo description available.

The scheme of Sweden's display group Team 60, seen from below.

 

3136c16714cab810659fb945b91a0270_453168.

The same scheme from above

 

se_502-a_70943673.jpg

An unusual scheme possibly used while Saab were trying to export the plane.

 

se-xbz-2_70784579.jpg

The second prototype (later the Saab 105XT and G) in its original livery.

 

1280px-Saab_105_SE-XBZ.jpg

The same plane reincarnated as Saab 105G, painted in a uniform brown.

 

se-xbz_183151646.jpg

The Saab 105G in the more standard green and brown.

 

More Pictures:

Spoiler

 

36112342702_406d2dfea2_b.jpg

An Sk 60B and Sk 60C in flight together.

 

Saab-sk60A-in-Flight-2-900x602.jpg

The 105 in livery celebrating its 50th year of service. 

 

Saab_105OE_10.jpg

An Sk 60B in flight, painted in the dark brown & black scheme.

 

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The cockpit of an Sk 60.

 

Saab_105_Sk60A_Detail_Cockpit.jpg

Outside.

 

Aircraft%20Manufacturers-SAAB-1971-57389

Saab's ad for the Saab 105, specifically the XT or G based on the heavier "2.3 tons" payload listed here. The advertisement of Rb 05A missiles here also proves definitively that the 105 did carry it and that most internet sources are to be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

avsa105_3.png

A picture comparing the A and C variants, showing one of the many payload configurations.

 

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An Sk 60C with its gun pod open for reloading or maintenance.

 

sk60c-1.jpg

Another Sk 60C with gun pods, displayed next to its full load of rockets.

 

sk60c-1.jpg

The nose of an Sk 60c, showing its cameras.

 

33118650691_cb7690a2ce_b.jpg

Another good front view, showing four Sidewinders and a pair of gun pods.

 

1114158-large.jpg

An Sk 60C in the same black & dark brown camo as the one above.

 

ci32.jpg

An Sk 60 banking with a load of four bombs and two Sidewinders, which is either an XT/G or a regular Sk 60B and the claim of just 700kg of total payload is wrong.

 

ci08.jpg

An Sk 60B prototype with Rb 05A missiles and Rb 24 Sidewinders.

 

1280px-Saab_105_SE-XBZ.jpg

SE-XBZ, the second prototype, in its later form as either Saab 105XT or 105G. I'd love to know what the blue pods are (judging by the holes in the front, they might be the 12.7mm practice gun pods?).

 

se-xbz-2_70784579.jpg

SE-XBZ in its original livery as the second Sk 60A prototype.

 

ci09.jpg

SE-XBZ as the Saab 105G with a load of 6x 250kg bombs.

 

ci15.jpg

Another view.

 

ci13.jpg

And another.

 

ci14.jpg

The last of this set.

 

se-xbz_183151646.jpg

SE-XBZ as the Saab 105G with what looks like gun pods and bombs, or two different sizes of bomb.

 

se_xbz-le-bourget-690529_183151018.jpg

SE-XBZ as the Saab 105XT, carrying a payload of rockets.

 

ci17.jpg

SE-XBZ testing the "Red Baron" recon pod.

 

ci18.jpg

The same as above.

 

36239863226_508c68d7e4_b.jpg

Swedish Air Force Sk 60As in formation.

 

5b5d0adeebea21a423b075a49f01d152.jpg

Sk 60Bs in standard Swedish Air Force green & brown camo.

 

8584491607_203046bb4a_b.jpg

The same camo.

 

Sk60A-Trainer-Display-900x600.jpg

One of the prototypes on display.

 

se_502-a_70943673.jpg

A Saab 105 in a unique livery, possibly when Saab were trying to sell it to other customers.

 

sk60c-2.jpg

An Sk 60C at an air show with gun pods attached and rockets laid out in front of it.

 

Image result for saab sk 60 gunpod

The same plane from the front

 

avsa1057.jpg

Another Sk 60C, also with gun pods.

 

5-sk60.jpg

An Sk 60C on the ground.

 

7609766690_399abb153d_b.jpg

An Sk 60 of the Swedish display group Team 60.

 

ea88cd28658db739f335f22835dfbd79.jpg

Another Team 60 Sk 60.

 

CwatZNlWIAA0zRN.jpg:large

A top view of a Team 60 display Sk 60.

 

DHg8CddW0AEepQq.jpg

An underside view of another Team 60 plane, in the same livery of the others.

 

77069_1094852959.jpg

Another underside view of the Team 60 Sk 60s.

 

avsa105_1.jpg

More Team 60 planes.

 

DjGmYzOXgAAfO1z.jpg

Team 60 in formation.

 

2-sk60.jpg

Another view.

 

Saab_Rb_05_%2801%29.jpg

The Rb 05 ASM, carried by the Sk 60.

 

Turbomeca_Aubisque.jpg

The Turbomeca Aubisque engine that powered the Saab 105 for the first 30 years.

 

avsa105_5.png

The proposed Swiss variant.

 

ww5ASo2lUILfqIrun6M5oBnlnOauTkycWSLdVBMl

An Sk 60C in flight.

 

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An Sk 60C on the ground.

 

1395145-large.jpg

Another Sk 60C on display.

 

585676fa0d8a689c669bb42d20be9976--wester

A pair of Cs in flight.

 

SAAB-SK-60C-SAAB-105-FlygvapnetUSAFscale

A model Sk 60C with gun pods.

 

17270_1345237981.jpg

An Sk 60A/B making a low pass.

 

 

Relevant Pages From Air Force Magazine Issue 52 On The Saab 105:

 

Spoiler

image.png.4e0c4c2955fa8481d11ae86d1c7195

image.thumb.png.46e0423592484e2609ad1ecf

image.png.23a12e270020af451d97adaf852f9f

 

Sources:

 

Air Force Magazine, Issue 52 (1969), "SAAB 105 -- Viggen's Little Brother", Pages 65-68 (See the spoiler above for the relevant pages)

http://www.airvectors.net/avsa105.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_105

https://www.plane-encyclopedia.com/cold-war/saab-105/

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.asp?aircraft_id=1650

http://www.militaryplanes.co.uk/saab105.html

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/saab-105.htm

https://www.x-plane.org/home/urf/aviation/text/60saab105.html

https://encyclopedie-des-armes.com/index.php/aviation/air-sol/1578-rb-05a

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rb_05

http://www.astronautix.com/r/rb05.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbomeca_Aubisque

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams_FJ44

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_J85

Edited by Zombificus
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There seems to be an issue with the poll: the first four questions are single-choice ones, so we can't select multiple variant for the Tech-Tree, for example.

 

3 hours ago, Sternjager said:

+1, but wasn't this already planned?

 

And btw, if Saab 105 is a prototype, go premium.

 

Only the Sk 60C, which is marked as a future premium on the release tree. The 60B and 105G aren't.

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7 hours ago, PlanyKaanere said:

Only the Sk 60C, which is marked as a future premium on the release tree. The 60B and 105G aren't.

Oh well, ok!

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So the SK60B and C could not carry any AA missiles and had a limited load to just over 500 kg. Also the SK60W is just a trainer, they were not used as light attackers by the time they were modified. Also in my opinion the SK60B and C are too weak for the game, they cannot carry gunpods and rockets at the same time which makes them very limited, unlike the Saab 105XT or G which can carry gunpods and other ordnance, specifically gunpods and AIM-9B's.

image.png.e3db69cc8b7ba934e34d9fa71c1c78
These are not AAM's, they are pylons for the rockets.

image.png.b06c8b490aa18a0ae7e0eb29100a58

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  • 2 months later...

I support all 3 of them (the Sk 60C should be a premium/event/squadron vehicle IMO), great work, but if it eventually gets into the game, the 105G should be designated as the 105Ö (the difference is mainly in the nav/attack system, and electronics, which is irrelevant from the game's point of view, and the Ö variant has seen active service), and it should sport a Luftstreitkräfte camo.

 

 

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On 09/02/2020 at 21:26, blockhaj said:

specifically gunpods and AIM-9L's which will make it a beast if added below 9.0

no thank you we don't need an all aspect missile at that br

 

On 05/02/2020 at 08:51, Zombificus said:

The Rb 05 was guided optically via joystick, using the flare to indicate the missile's position, which makes it more similar to the Fritz-X (PC-1800X) bomb currently implemented in War Thunder than it is to the TV-guided AGM-12 Bullpup, which is naturally easier to aim.

the bullpup is guided optically , it's not a TV-guided missile like the maverick

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On 09/02/2020 at 21:26, blockhaj said:

 Also in my opinion the SK60B and C are too weak for the game, they cannot carry gunpods and rockets at the same time which makes them very limited

They can still be useful in a CAS role in ground RB if nothing else. That's good enough for me.

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Here's a question regarding Sk 60's 2-man crew. Would the second crewmember in the passenger seat be able to pilot the plane and fly it in the case of the main pilot being shot out? That could give it a slight edge in survivability if that's the case.

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On 10/06/2020 at 11:11, Stridswombat said:

They can still be useful in a CAS role in ground RB if nothing else. That's good enough for me.

I'd rather have the A21RA as it has more rockets and actual armament

10 hours ago, Stridswombat said:

Here's a question regarding Sk 60's 2-man crew. Would the second crewmember in the passenger seat be able to pilot the plane and fly it in the case of the main pilot being shot out? That could give it a slight edge in survivability if that's the case.

It has dual controls

On 30/04/2020 at 19:26, IGLA_HUN said:

I support all 3 of them (the Sk 60C should be a premium/event/squadron vehicle IMO), great work, but if it eventually gets into the game, the 105G should be designated as the 105Ö (the difference is mainly in the nav/attack system, and electronics, which is irrelevant from the game's point of view, and the Ö variant has seen active service), and it should sport a Luftstreitkräfte camo.

 

 

The 105G is very different from the 105Ö. It has a different nose, cockpit, antenna + several other visual differences. It also has RWR and a ballistic computer with laser designator.

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On 13/06/2020 at 15:15, blockhaj said:

I'd rather have the A21RA as it has more rockets and actual armament

Variety is the spice or life. Something that Sk 60 has that the A 21 doesn't have are those gunpods. They would do a far better job of penetrating armour than A 21's guns.

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I might as well list the loads and features of each relevant variant as i have knowledge on it.
 

SK 60B & SK 60C
770 km/h.
Max load: 800 kg.
4 light pylons, each capable of carrying ca 100 kg.
2 heavy pylons, each capable of carrying ca 700 kg, however limited to 400 kg due to the MTOW of the SK60B and C.

 

To hit ground targets:

Spoiler

Bombs:

  • 2x 120 kg SB M/61: fragmentation bombs. Exists on the A32A in game. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
  • 2x 250 kg MB M/50: high explosive bombs. Exists on the A32A in game. Removed from loads in 1975.

Rockets:

  • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/56D: high explosive rockets, 3,7 kg of TNT, 650 m/s excluding aircraft speed.
  • 6x 145 mm PSRAK M/49/56: one per pylon. Exists on the J35D in game (however using the wrong name in game).

Rocket pods:

  • 6x MFI RAKKAP ABEL: Rocket pod carrying seven 75 mm SRAK M/57B anti air rockets. Ca 60 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 42x 75 mm SRAK M/57B: Exists on the J32B in game.
  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm SRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/70: High explosive rockets (3,7 kg TNT). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.
  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70: HEAT rockets (ca 700 mm). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

Air to ground missiles:

  • 2x RB05A: MCLOS, 305 kg, ca 350 m/s, 160 kg of TNT, contact proximity fuse, 9000 km range. Removed from loads in 1980.

To hit air targets:

Spoiler

Gun pods:

  • 2x 12,7 mm AKANKAP M/70: gun pod featuring a 12,7 mm akan m/39A machine gun with 100 rounds (theoretically more can be loaded). Ca 350 kg loaded. Historically for exercise only.
    • 12,7 mm AKAN M/39A: 800 rpm. 900 m/s. Ammo types:
      • 12,7 mm slbrsprj m/90 (HEI-T)
      • 12,7 mm brsprj m/90 (HE-I)
      • 12,7 mm pbrprj m/90 (AP-I)
      • 12,7 mm slprj m/90 (Tracer)
      • 12,7 mm övnprj m/45 (Ball).
  • 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70: gun pod featuring a 30 mm akan m/55 autocannon with 150 rounds. Ca 363 kg loaded.
    • 30 mm AKAN M/55: 1400 rpm. 795 m/s. Ammo types:
      • 30 mm mgr m/55 (Mineshell)
      • 30 mm övnprj m/55 (Steel AP)
      • 30 mm pprj m/55 (Tungsten AP)

Rocket pods:

  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets with proximity fuse. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70 ZONAR: HEAT rockets with proximity fuse (TNT equivalent 7 kg). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

 

Saab 105Ö SE-DCX

(Note: only existed in 1972)

970 km/h.
Max load: 2350 kg.
6 heavy pylons, each capable of carrying ca 700 kg.

 

To hit ground targets:

Spoiler

Bombs:

  • 6x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82: high explosive bombs.
  • 2x 1000 lb LDGP Mk 83: high explosive bombs + 4x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82: high explosive bombs.
  • 4x 1000 lb LDGP Mk 83: high explosive bombs.

Rockets:

  • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/56D: high explosive rockets, 3,7 kg of TNT, 650 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

Rocket pods:

  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm SRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/70: High explosive rockets (3,7 kg TNT). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.
  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70: HEAT rockets (ca 700 mm). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

Air to ground missiles:

  • 2x RB05A: MCLOS, 305 kg, ca 350 m/s, 160 kg of TNT, contact proximity fuse, 9000 km range.

To hit air targets:

Spoiler

Gun pods:

  • 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70: gun pod featuring a 30 mm akan m/55 autocannon with 150 rounds. Ca 363 kg loaded.
    • 30 mm AKAN M/55: 1400 rpm. 795 m/s. Ammo types:
      • 30 mm mgr m/55 (Mineshell)
      • 30 mm övnprj m/55 (Steel AP)
      • 30 mm pprj m/55 (Tungsten AP)

Gun pods + air to air missiles:

  • 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70 + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.

Rocket pods:

  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets with proximity fuse. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70 ZONAR: HEAT rockets with proximity fuse (TNT equivalent 7 kg). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

Multi-purpose weapon

Spoiler

Rockets + gun pods:

  • 4x 135 mm SRAK M/56D: high explosive rockets + 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70.

Bombs + air to air missiles:

  • 4x 500 lb LDGP Mk 82: high explosive bombs + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.
  • 4x 1000 lb LDGP Mk 83: high explosive bombs + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.

Air to ground missiles + air to air missiles:

  • 2x RB05A: MCLOS AGM + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.

 

Saab 105G

BT9R ballistic computer with laser range finder and automatic bomb release.

App27/48 radar warning system (RWS) + radar blocker.

1000 km/h.

 Max load: 2350 kg.
6 heavy pylons, each capable of carrying ca 700 kg.

 

To hit ground targets:

Spoiler

Bombs:

  • 6x 120 kg SB M/61: fragmentation bombs. Exists on the A32A in game. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
  • 6x 250 kg MB M/50: high explosive bombs. Exists on the A32A in game.
  • 2x 600 kg MB M/50: high explosive bombs + 4x 250 kg MB M/50: high explosive bombs.

Rockets:

  • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/56D: high explosive rocket, 3,7 kg of TNT, 650 m/s excluding aircraft speed.
  • 6x 145 mm PSRAK M/49/56: one per pylon. Exists on the J35D in game (however using the wrong name in game).

Rocket pods:

  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm SRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/70: High explosive rockets (3,7 kg TNT). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.
  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70: HEAT rockets (ca 700 mm). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

Air to ground missiles:

  • 2x RB05A: MCLOS, 305 kg, ca 350 m/s, 160 kg of TNT, contact proximity fuse, 9000 km range.

To hit air targets:

Spoiler

Gun pods:

  • 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70: gun pod featuring a 30 mm akan m/55 autocannon with 150 rounds. Ca 363 kg loaded.
    • 30 mm AKAN M/55: 1400 rpm. 795 m/s. Ammo types:
      • 30 mm mgr m/55 (Mineshell)
      • 30 mm övnprj m/55 (Steel AP)
      • 30 mm pprj m/55 (Tungsten AP)

Gun pods + air to air missiles:

  • 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70 + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.

Rocket pods:

  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets with proximity fuse. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70 ZONAR: HEAT rockets with proximity fuse (TNT equivalent 7 kg). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

Multi-purpose weapon

Spoiler

Rockets + gun pods:

  • 4x 135 mm SRAK M/56D: high explosive rockets + 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70.

Bombs + air to air missiles:

  • 4x 120 kg SB M/61: fragmentation bombs + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.
  • 4x 250 kg MB M/50: high explosive bombs +2 x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.
  • 2x 600 kg MB M/50: high explosive bombs + 2x 250 kg MB M/50: high explosive bombs + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.

Air to ground missiles + air to air missiles:

  • 2x RB05A: MCLOS AGM + 2x RB24B: AIM-9B Sidewinders.

 

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On 17/06/2020 at 12:02, blockhaj said:

I might as well list the loads and features of each relevant variant as i have knowledge on it.
 

SK 60B & SK 60C
Max load: 800 kg.
4 light pylons, each capable of carrying ca 100 kg.
2 heavy pylons, each capable of carrying ca 700 kg, however limited to 400 kg due to the MTOW of the SK60B and C.

 

To hit ground targets:

  Reveal hidden contents

Bombs:

  • 2x 120 kg SB M/61: fragmentation bomb. Exists on the A32A in game. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
  • 2x 250 kg MB M/50: high explosive bomb. Exists on the A32A in game. Removed from loads in 1975.

Rockets:

  • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/56D: high explosive rocket, 3,7 kg of TNT, 650 m/s excluding aircraft speed.
  • 6x 145 mm PSRAK M/49/56: one per pylon. Exists on the J35D in game (however using the wrong name in game).

Rocket pods:

  • 6x MFI RAKKAP ABEL: Rocket pod carrying seven 75 mm SRAK M/57B anti air rockets. Ca 60 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 42x 75 mm SRAK M/57B: Exists on the J32B in game.
  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm SRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm SRAK M/70: High explosive rockets (3,7 kg TNT). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.
  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70: HEAT rockets (ca 700 mm). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

Missiles:

  • 2x RB05A: MCLOS, 305 kg, ca 350 m/s, 160 kg of TNT, contact proximity fuse, 9000 km range. Removed from loads in 1980.

To hit air targets:

  Reveal hidden contents

Gun pods:

  • 2x 12,7 mm AKANKAP M/70: gun pod featuring a 12,7 mm akan m/39A machine gun with 100 rounds (theoretically more can be loaded). Ca 350 kg loaded. Historically for exercise only.
    • 12,7 mm AKAN M/39A: 800 rpm. 900 m/s. Ammo types:
      • 12,7 mm slbrsprj m/90 (HEI-T)
      • 12,7 mm brsprj m/90 (HE-I)
      • 12,7 mm pbrprj m/90 (AP-I)
      • 12,7 mm slprj m/90 (Tracer)
      • 12,7 mm övnprj m/45 (Ball).
  • 2x 30 mm AKANKAP M/70: gun pod featuring a 30 mm akan m/55 autocannon with 150 rounds. Ca 363 kg loaded.
    • 30 mm AKAN M/55: 1400 rpm. 795 m/s. Ammo types:
      • 30 mm mgr m/55 (Mineshell)
      • 30 mm övnprj m/55 (Steel AP)
      • 30 mm pprj m/55 (Tungsten AP)

Rocket pods:

  • 2x ARAKKAP M/70: rocket pod carrying six 135 mm PSRAK M/70 attack rockets with proximity fuse. Ca 375 kg loaded. Historically not part of standard loadouts.
    • 12x 135 mm PSRAK M/70 ZONAR: HEAT rockets with proximity fuse (TNT equivalent 7 kg). 600 m/s excluding aircraft speed.

 

Saab 105Ö SE-DCX TBA
Max load: 2350 kg.
6 heavy pylons, each capable of carrying ca 700 kg.

 

Saab 105G TBA
Max load: 2350 kg.
6 heavy pylons, each capable of carrying ca 700 kg.

I found something in a book suggesting Sk 60B could carry both gunpods and up to 8 13.5cm rockets. Do you know anything about this?

 

IMG_2562.thumb.JPG.4e41987c6f063287d7c1a

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16 hours ago, Stridswombat said:

I found something in a book suggesting Sk 60B could carry both gunpods and up to 8 13.5cm rockets. Do you know anything about this?

 

IMG_2562.thumb.JPG.4e41987c6f063287d7c1a

Thats the Saab 105G. Its capacity was close to 3000 kg.

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