techtreesetup Change the Naval Techtree setup from Horizontal to Vertical

[zevesh 12]

 

6 minutes ago, Shadow__CZ said:

But why should players come to him? Why he can´t just look onto for example NF general section to see what other players think and then look into NF related discussion and especially Napalm is guilty here. 

 

hi

[Shadow__CZ 2,198]

13 minutes ago, zevesh said:

hi

hi?

 

[CaptnBerner 312]

4 hours ago, Shadow__CZ said:

Well there are several problems with NF I will try my best to cover most of them:

1. Problem between playerbase communacitation, meaning AB and RB playerbase these gamemodes apart from the core problems have extremly different gameplay experience eg. Aircraft balance
2. General lack of interest in boats from the outside playerbase (me included) > them being roadblock
3. Lack of interest from YTrs to dive into suggestion and community interaction on forums (I am looking at you @Napalmratte and @EuropeanCanadian) Is it that hard to interact at very least with players inside suggestion section when you Soo care about the game and this gamemode? And from TEC it is sadly also general lack knowledge of large ship gameplay.
4. Core problems of NF gameplay (Maps, DM, balance, general objectives)
   • Maps and objectives and balance - the ballance is mess because with current maps/objectives you can´t really have PT boats BR overlaping with DDs and DDs overlaping with CLs ect. that is reason for current crazy "balance" and econ. To solve this change maps and objective would be needed - just rough idea:

      

   • DM - it was crazy before and after 1.97 it even worse - there needs to be big rework to how it works becuse currently it is too inconsistent and too hard to read (I still have noidea how fires work?!)
5. Economy - IDK how to feel about it. I will admit it I am bad in planes and tanks but for me the NF is quite a money maker (I rarely go into - even in quite trash battles). Maybe the advance boats have bad econ but I simply don´t play them (+ I only have Omaha). I believe that ships like Jaguar, pr.206M ect should in perfect TT and gameplay be something like 7.0 (or even more) ships and should fight in battles with DDs, CLs, BC, BBs, CVs and with removing RP and SL rank limiters they would be perfectly fine with their cost 
6. UI - I have no problems with it but if we get more complex DM or FCS the UI should give more info too. The lack of understanding could be soleved by better tutorials and F1 help menu. 
7. I alread stated my opinion on the TTs - the idea is good execution and everything around is bad.

 

1. This flat out I can agree with. It's also a issue even within the Tankery and Plane community of WT. I've lost count of the amount of times that people from RB **** on those who play AB and those in AB just want to have a good time and play the game how they want to. Whether that be due to time constraints, tolerance for being insta-killed in RB where in AB you can generally have a good time, or some other reason. I've played both AB and RB and I genuinely do see what both have to offer and don't crap on those from one subset of the community or the other. I am pretty objective in that regard but even within TEC's own community I was verbally gone after and crapped on by people who are RB Purists. TEC did nothing to shut this harmful behavior down because he's a very hands-off YT creator.

 

2. I don't disagree with this, but looking at it with a objective eye it's not as cut and dry as how you make it sound (if you didn't mean for that no worries). The lack of interest stems from the lack of a coherent and positive feedback loop that then turns many players off. That coupled with the other issues in my last post only compound this problem. If people didn't care about Naval then why the heck is WoWs still having a large population? It's not because of a lack of interest, that's proven based on their steady (with dips here and there). It's because of the positive feedback loop in the game. It's fun, enjoyable and gets even better as you improve your skills. I left that game not because of those reasons but because of the increasing in worsening business practices from WGing. Things that are flat about unethical and morally bad. Like lootboxes for example.

 

3. I don't know who Napalmratte is, but I can speak about TEC. In one short sentience: I agree that TEC cares very little about Naval and so it's easy for him to dismissive any sort of methods of improving it.

Long answer?

He borderline hates the mode. I've seen very little positive encouragement from him with the mode. Most of the things either I've submitted on here or from others in terms of improving the mode he rips to shreds without actually giving any positive or constructive critism. He's defended ships lik the PG02 time and time again, he's also crapped on other content creators within his own server. Many of whom play WT for the community (not their community) and just to have a fun game to play with others. He very much hates what he doesn't like and tears it down repeatedly while putting himself on a sort of pedestal as someone who believes in positivist and not being nihilistic, when in reality being just that. TEC is a purist and a very harmful one at that. The only part of Naval he seems to say anything good about is the Royal Navy and it's pretty obvious why. British Bias. xD

 

4. Yes to this point and then some. Core gameplay loops, maps are really unbalaced (one team on many of the maps have more spawns and thus have a numerical advantage over the other team), objectives on the maps are stale, boring and very very repetitive after you've played 10-20 games in Naval.

 

5. You are lucky to not have to suffer through the High Ranks for Naval. I envy your purity in that.

Omaha CLs were historically one of the worst Cruiser Designs during the Second Great War. Their gun placements, slow top speeds and almost absent AA made the US quickly work on the Brooklyn class. Thank god for that too. This **** poor design is carried over into WT, where everything can kill the two (why two?!) Omaha's in swift secession. I personally wish they'd remove one of them, as two of them just to get to the better ships is a grind fest and I said screw it and just paid for the ability to use my abundance of unused RP to get through both of them. That's just how bad they are. Yet little did I know that the higher you go in Naval the worse and worse it becomes to turn a profit. You gain more RP then you do SL because you can't get negative RP. Yet the absorbent cost for the larger ships (and we arne't even to BC's or BB's yet in Naval) means you have two choices. Be stuck in that ship for a massive amount of your time in Naval, or move to a entirely different mode (like tanks or planes) so you can then turn back around once you've earned enough there to buy the next ship. It's a lot of hoop jumping like this that is killing Naval.

 

6. UI in Naval isn't bad, but it's cracks do start to show during the EC battles where conflicts are at such long ranges that knowing where the enemy is, knowing where your shells are landing and correcting your aim is sometimes impossible. Plus because outside of the first few Naval EC battles being AB, the rest of been nothing but RB. This means that the green shell drop overlay that you can enable in the setting is unusable because it's in RB. The very thing that would make EC all for the better because you know where your shells hit. And since WT Naval lacks the ability for large shell tracers to be seen in the game (which is super evident when you are scooped in trying to aim your shot), you more often then not are firing blind, wasting time, ship health and SLs. Where as the enemy ships that have a faster firing rate can put more shells down range and thus have more chances to hit you while making the same ranging mistakes but in less time allows them to kill you far faster. In short, the UI works in favor of some ships but others it creates a unbalanced playing field.

 

7. No worries.

 

4 hours ago, super_cacti said:

 

While I do prefer not to take part in large discussions like this, I must however devend TEC. I am very active on his Discord and talk with him on a regular basis.

While in his videos things might look different, he does interact with many people of the community on his Discord. And while he is not a fan of large naval vessels gameplay, he does talk with people that do play that and listens to their opinions.

 

So when it comes to YouTubers, keep in mind that they are not all knowing gods. We are all human, and share different views on different things.

 

Once upon a time I'd be in agreement with you, but I was in his Discord for long enough to see the sort of person who he is, how he thinks and how much he defaults to playing the blame game. Like blaming the whole entire WT for never agreeing on anything, but also doing the exact thing he chastises the community for. Crapping on other Content Creators in private (his discord) but not liking it when people question him on things he staunchly believes, etc etc.

 

TEC once upon a time was someone who was far more reasonable and friendly to both his community and the WT at large but he's turned vitriolic and finds it easier to just hate on those who don't agree with him without question. 

 

3 hours ago, Shadow__CZ said:

But why should players come to him? Why he can´t just look onto for example NF general section to see what other players think and then look into NF related discussion and especially Napalm is guilty here. 

 

 

3 hours ago, super_cacti said:

 

Because YouTubers have a life to. In TEC's case, he still has a job, a wife, YouTube videos to make, sleep.....

They can't be everywhere at the same time. If you want to be heard, you will have to come to them. And trust me TEC is easy to get in touch with. Some other YouTuber will straight up ignore you or never sit in open channels talking with people on Discord.

 

I think this is the biggest problem with some of the WT Content Creators. Yes they have life but that's a fallacy of a reason. If they have a life, then why are they playing a video game if they have a life, and two why do they make content that ultimately promotes and sells the game they play?

 

If they are going to be content creators and thus be functioning members of the games community then they shouldn't just ignore the forums while crapping on the community. Only visiting the forums after the fact of something being contributed to the game itself (passed onto the devs). As it stands I've never seen TEC actually provide any sort of constructive feedback on the game that could be used to then improve it. I've never seen him post anything in the suggestions for the game. At least within Naval. Yet he's very very critical of the mode, craps on the players who want to see it become something better and only plays it for the British ships because of his bias to anything British. I can't speak for other Creators but I can say that about TEC.

 

I mean if Content Creators are going to cover anything from the forums then they should be doing it in a way that is actually genuine and shows they actually do care about this game and it's community. It's funny in a twisted way because I remember very clearly that TEC was against the whole "Please Fix WT" movement within the community and in his Discord he was enforcing people to drop the subject during that whole thing. But then magically his was in agreement with it, which makes me think that Gaijin had something to do with it because while they haven't really fixed many issues with the game, it does look good as a form of publicity. Since there is no such thing as bad publicity after all. Lol

 

I will say that TEC has a thing out for the other creators in the Community. There have been times he's verbally dissed and said very tasteless things about MikeGoesBoom and even PhlyDaily. Both people who have been part of this community for far longer. Which makes me think he's got a inferiority complex because he's the child in the content creation scene for WT and he's taught himself to believe that tearing others down who have been at this for far longer is the only way to made a name for himself. It's disheartening.

 

Sorry for the lengthy reply, but I hope you all gave it a read.

 

I want Naval to be better then what it is now as much as the next person, but there are players/forces involved that could care less about it.

 

 

Edited March 19, 2020 by CaptDaragoth
Forum Glitched. Double post happened.

[devilskid4 41]

I would like to say I support this 100%. The only thing I would prefer is for all types of vessels (except maybe dreadnaughts and subs) to start at rank 1 or two. Then to make it so they don't just destroy everyone in the small boats you give them bigger rewards for doing tasks they are designed for (for dreadnaughts and maybe pre-dreadnaughts or even monitors if it goes back that far that would be destroying large ships and hitting inland targets. The inland targets could be seen like the bases bombers destroy in air battles).

[CokeSpray 7,274]

Suggestion passed to the developers for consideration.

[leroyonly 4,311]

As the naval system has been changed to a vertical one with the naval research tree reworks as per update 2.1 New Power,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.