tech tree Visegrad Group - Ground tech tree

[RazNaRok 616]

23 hours ago, AkIvonDemolka said:

Polish Anti-Aircraft Fiat 621 with a designed base with two CKM wz.30

 

The base was to be mounted on Polish ships, fortifications and trucks in 1939.

 

WoW nice find.

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

9 hours ago, RazNaRok said:

WoW nice find.

 

Thanks. Let me say that our engineers also worked on a 20 mm anti-aircraft gun on trucks, but there is no technical documentation. I also found an unknown tank from Poland from 1939, unknown armored cars from 1939 with guns, and a converted captured German vehicle from 1939 with a Polish cannon from England, and captured armored cars with a 76.2mm cannon in the Polish army. I will put it on Visgerad and in the Polish tree when I have time.

[RazNaRok 616]

16 hours ago, AkIvonDemolka said:

Thanks. Let me say that our engineers also worked on a 20 mm anti-aircraft gun on trucks

 

Yup.

 

The idea of mounting FK-A 20mm with the use of heavy naval type pedestals on truck chassis, appeared during the discussion about the armament for tankettes.

This was to be a way of solving the problem of anti-aircraft cover of armored vehicles on the march and on the battlefield.

However ultimately took a decision to use light mounts on wheeled trailers, towed by the new PZInż 303 artillery tractors.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by RazNaRok

[atta26hu 108]

I have researched some hungarian vehicles that could be added in game I will post these vehicles.

Probably you guys know most of the vehicles but I hope I can and could show you something new.

 

V-4 first version

V-4 second version

38M Toldi I (A.20)

42M Toldi II (B.20)

42M Toldi IIA (B.40)

        Toldi IIAK

43M Toldi III (C.40)

43M Toldi Páncélvadász ('Toldi tank destroyer')

40.M Turán I

40.M Turán I late

40.M Turán I with 60mm armour

41.M Turán II

41.M Turán II late

41.M Turán II with 60mm armour

43.M Turán

44.M Tas 75mm

44.M Tas 80mm

Zrínyi prototype

Zrínyi II

Zrínyi II late/1944 version

Zrínyi I

Zrínyi I sorozatvető

Nimród Buzogányvető

Toldi Buzogányvető

Botond tehergépkocsi Buzogányvető

Krupp Protze Buzogányvető

Opel Blitz Buzogányvető

Rába Botond with 15 cm rocket

Rába Botond - 8mm 31.M Solothurn light machine gun and/or a 8mm 07/31.M Schwarzlose machine gun

Krupp Protze - 8mm 31.M Solothurn light machine gun /and or a 8mm 07/31.M Schwarzlose machine gun

Krupp Protze - 15mm machine gun

Krupp Protze - 20mm machine gun

Opel Blitz – 39.M Gebauer 8 mm machine gun

Gebauers experimental machine gun on a truck

Nimród prototype

Nimród

Nimród late version

27.M Rába “Vr”

39M Csaba

Csepel D-344 (zpu-2) 14,5mm SPAA

Csepel D-350 BM-14

Straussler Monitor

88mm Straussler Self-Propelled Gun

PSZH with Malyutka ATGMs

D–944.00 PSZH

FUG-70

PSZH 6x6 (there are claims that there was one built)

T-55AM (t-55 upgraded in Hungary it has ammunition differences than what we have in game in the soviet tech tree)

2b9 installed on a MT-LB (it can only fire backwards so maybe a no)

2B9 on a AMB-1

82 mm 2B9M automatic mortars on the (HMMWW)

2b9 on a Mercedes Unimog

Mistral Unimog

KF-41 HU

 

 

There are sources that claim there were Turán Is and Turán IIs that were up armoured from 50mm to 60mm, and its quite possible that they made the upgrade so why not could it be in game.

Now again probably a lot of vehicles need more info but Gaijin could possibly look into them, and I know that there are stuff that it is not needed but I just want to post it what hungary could offer.

 

These are the vehicles that I could research, there is probably more hungarian vehicles.

 

The upcoming Zrínyi I from the data mines seem to have a lot of inaccuracies the gears, the Zrínyi I superstructure is from the datamines 75mm now some sources say it was 75mm but there are a lot of sources that indicate that it was not 75mm and it was 100mm and i am not talking about the +25mm that the mantlet gives but the whole front around the mantlet is 100m thick, and it should have 6 reverse gears the same as forward but in game it will have 3, the armour is messed up the lower front plate should have to be 75mmm and not 35mm (i dont even know where they gt this info from), the rockets vertical limit should be from 6,5° to 45° and not 0 to 10 degrees.

There are a lot of inaccuracies regarding the Zrínyi but they have problems with the Turán too.

 

I am furious at Gaijin that they cannot name the vehicles properly, like they named it Turan and not Turán, named it Zrinyi and not Zrínyi, its completely different saying it, why cant they name it properly, like why cant they put accentuated letters, like the finnish vehicles have them, but hungarian vehicles dont, but it should be an easy fix for them.

 

The historical inaccuracies are a big thing too, the Zrínyi, Turán and the Toldi have many amounts of inaccuracies to speak of, why you may ask, I do not know, there headquarters is in Budapest in Hungary so the Archives are really close for them so they could look in to the archives of hungarian tanks or just look it up on the internet, but maybe they do not have people to do the research for the hungarian vehicles, I dont know and I am not sure.

 

I hope I posted some vehicles that you guys did not know about.

Edited August 10, 2022 by atta26hu

[Major_Shaker 2,633]

Slovakia just announced that it will get 15 Leopard 2A4 tanks from Rheinmetall for transforming BMP-1 to Ukraine. So we can just confirm 2A4 to be regular tank in service of all V4 countries since Czech republic will also get Leopard 2A4

. 

 

https://e.dennikn.sk/minuta/2980877

[RazNaRok 616]

June 2022 post cleanup

 

Following suggestions were archived/removed as these not met the rules:

Vehicle	Nation	Reason
PZL-Mielec Lim-5	Germany	Bundle post
PZL-Mielec Lim-5P	Germany	Bundle post
PZL-Mielec Lim-6	Germany	Bundle post
(PL) PZL-Mielec Lim-6bis	Other Nations	No poll

 

 

Vehicle	Nation	Reason
Panzerkampfwagen 7TP 731(P)	Germany	no history
(PL) Borsuk	Other Nations	No "No" answer
(PL) KTO Rosomak M1 IFV	Other Nations	Multiple specific versions
(PL) KTO Rosomak M1M IFV	Other Nations	Multiple specific versions
(PL) PT-91 Twardy	Other Nations	No poll

 

 

Vehicle	Nation	Reason
(PL) MW D class Cruiser, ORP Dragon (D46)	Other Nations	Missing "no" options in the poll
(PL) MW Grom class destroyer, ORP Grom (H71)	Other Nations	Missing "no" options in the poll
(PL) MW Project 30 bis class Destroyer, ORP Grom (H53)	Other Nations	Missing "no" options in the poll
(PL) MW S class Motor Gun Boat, ORP S-2 "Wilczur"	Other Nations	Bundle post
(PL) MW S class Motor Gun Boat, ORP S-3 "Wyzel"	Other Nations	Bundle post

[Yontzee 1,676]

I think this tree, if Gaijin doesn’t/refuses to implement alliances, should be rebranded as a Poland tree and have the other nations be a sub-tree of Poland. It’s the same thing but it suits Gaijin’s historical trend. Either way I’m for it, just providing an alternative in case the former can’t be implemented.

[atta26hu 108]

Csepel 130 with DShK heavy machine gun at the hungarian millitary parade 1954.

 

 

 

Csepel-344 with ZPU-2 14.5mm machine gun.

 

GARANT 30K with ZPU-2 14.5mm.

[atta26hu 108]

Csepel Járda gépkocsi ZU-23, the truck was made specifically for carrying and using the Zu-23 autocannon, the plato was reinforced with metal and the cab was protected with a "wall" so that the casings would not break the glass or something else. They were rarely used, but its an interesting vehicle.

 

 

 

PSZH with 3 Malyutka ATGMs.

[atta26hu 108]

GAZ-66 IGLA "Láma" in 1999 június 3. at Drégelypalánk.

 

This is the Llama installed on the GAZ-66, with a double launcher, which, thanks to the quick lock/unlock mechanism, retained the possibility for the gunner to take the launcher out of its place, leave the vehicle and continue using it as a MANPAD. A 1L15-1 electronic plan board was also placed in front of the passengers seat in the GAZs cab, which received the target data via an RH data transmission system.

 

1L15-1 - is intended for timely notification of the commander (team) of anti-aircraft shooters about the location, direction of movement and affiliation of air targets ("own - foreign") in the deployment area of PL shooters.  Information about the air situation passes to the "terminal" via a radio channel from the command post in the form of a codegram.

Tactical and technical characteristics :
Frequency range: 37,000 - 51,950 MHz, 300 channels in 50 kHz steps
"Terminal" sensitivity (excluding 37,000, 40,000, 47,000, 50,000 MHz with reduced sensitivity) not lower than: 10 mV;
Distance of radio reception on flat terrain: not more than 15 km,
top connection range: 0.2 - 99.9 km,
Matrix LED display zone: 25.6 x 25.6 km
Matrix indicator resolution south-north, west-east: 1.6 km
Luminescence of LEDs when displaying "foreign" membership targets: pulse frequency 3.56, translucency 2
Luminescence of LEDs when displaying "own" membership targets: continuous or pulse frequency 1.06 Hz translucency 1.03
There are no more than 4 targets at a time
Time of display of received target information: 9.5 ± 1.5 s
Presence of sound and light signaling: loss of connection, cancellation of top connection, battery malfunction, presence of a foreign target in the display zone
Time to enter the mode after turning on the power: up to 7 s
Working mode: continuous day and night (24 hours)
Continuous operation time of the "terminal" from the connected power supply without cell replacement at ambient temperature from - 50 to + 50: 12 hours
Dimensions: 340 x 240 x 186 mm

 

 

 

 

 

1L15-1

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by atta26hu

[atta26hu 108]

Mistral Unimog.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by atta26hu

[Kminek246 123]

Just found this and i love it. From seeing the suggestion of Czechoslovakian TT there could be more vehicles added. But still I would love to see this in game.

And small Question. Though the STROP II was Czechoslovakian and not Polish, but i may have been wrong.

 

+1 for me 

[Rikers_Beard 517]

EDIT nevermind

Edited March 7, 2023 by Rikers_Beard

[Yontzee 1,676]

My interpretation of the V4 Group. Let me know what you guys think.

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Yontzee

[Yontzee 1,676]

Updated my concept posted above. I tried to focus on Hungarian, Czechoslovakia, and Polish indigenous designs (and Polish Army's during late-WWII) within Rank I and II. Rank III starts to transition to Cold War era vehicles with the use of Soviet technology. Rank IV is Soviet technology and different country's modifications of it. Rank V and Rank VI finishes off the Cold War and begins to transition to modern era vehicles, introducing Western vehicles. Rank VII focuses on new technology/Post-Cold War by focusing on advanced upgrade packages of Soviet technology or new vehicles altogether.

 

Notes:

• This was done to try and avoid rapid mixes of different nation's vehicles all within the same Rank. Have some sort of transition.
• Copy and paste, while not popular, is a necessary evil for parts of the tree. Not to mention, some of the copied vehicles play key historical roles in each nation's armed forces. 
• As Gaijin introduces Rank VIII, there will be more room to add other vehicles.
• Plenty more vehicles overall can be added.
• While there are many Self-Propelled Guns and Self-Propelled Howitzers (or artillery vehicles) that could be added, I only added the most known pieces. This is because SPH/SPG's are essentially glass cannons and do not of a role greater than that in-game. This limits their overall Battle Rating capabilities and doesn't do the tree any good over-saturating the Tank Destroyer line with artillery guns that mainly use the same types of munitions. If they had artillery functions, that would be a different story.
• The Czech Republic may purchase Leopard 2A8's which would be the peak of the tree and add APS.

Editor's Note:

• I think the original idea behind this tree is genius. As individual nation tree's, all 3 (or 4 if you count Czechia and Slovakia separately) would struggle in many areas with parts of each tree completely bare. While they all have a LOT of vehicles, many of them are clustered around the same BR, causing gaps in Ranks. Creating a combined tree allows the introduction of many popular nations to the game that share a lot of similarities and equipment without having to worry about massive gaps or a tree that is like the current Israeli Tree (while the Israeli Tree has many opportunities, in its current form, it is bare bones with the exception of Merkava's and Magach's even though it has several LT, SPAA, and TD options). It corrects the gaps within the tree for the most part and allows for a full/complete tree that touches on each nation's vehicles that were used within their armed forces or experimented with. 

 

I will continue to update this based on new information and new ideas.

Edited June 17, 2023 by Yontzee

[PacketlossRedux 595]

22 hours ago, Yontzee said:

My interpretation of the V4 Group. Let me know what you guys think.

 

its nice, and i see you added the T-55 with the HU ERA pack..nice....its worth it to point it out that just because we called it Visegrad (4) tech tree it can be called Polish,Hungarian, Czech whatever honestly. It just has to be introduced with  "sub trees" from the point of its introduction to the game. The "vehicle nationality" ratio changes from rank to rank and it also differs in ground, aviation, navy..etc So the name the tree goes by dont matter and it provides a pretty fun gameplay experience.

 

I would move the Nimrod a bit higher tho because of its anti tank heat grenade and add the Csepel-344 with ZPU-2 14.5mm machine gun that can be seen here on the 12 page. The Csepel truck had a legendary offroad capability. And the Csepel Járda gépkocsi ZU-23, (also above) since there is a hole in the spaa line, and i hate british filler crap. These two could be 3.7 and 4.3-7 or 5.0 ..similar vehicles can be found in the russian tree at similar br's.

The low tier SPAA selection is quite sad tho. We placed in the Opel Blitz Gauber for a good reason as it has a nice high rate of fire with two 8mm guns and 2000~ rpm. The 75mm SPAA has timed fuze so you wont hit **** with it in the air and it will be mostly used as a TD. 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2023 by PacketlossRedux

[Yontzee 1,676]

20 minutes ago, PacketlossRedux said:

its nice, and i see you added the T-55 with the HU ERA pack..nice....its worth it to point it out that just because we called it Visegrad (4) tech tree it can be called Polish,Hungarian, Czech whatever honestly. It just has to be introduced with  "sub trees" from the point of its introduction to the game. The "vehicle nationality" ratio changes from rank to rank and it also differs in ground, aviation, navy..etc So the name the tree goes by dont matter and it provides a pretty fun gameplay experience 

Thanks I appreciate it  They all 4 deserve to be added, just trying to find the best way to do so. 

 

I agree, having one nation be added and then sub-tree'ing the others is pretty much the same thing as the V4 and would fit with the Gaijin meta. Could even bring in nations like Lithuania and have their vehicles as a premium option/small role or something of the sort...Vilkas IFV 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Yontzee

[atta26hu 108]

On 16/06/2023 at 15:33, Yontzee said:

My interpretation of the V4 Group. Let me know what you guys think.

 

Nice tech tree, love it!

 

I love the hungarian side of things, I like that you included a lot of vehicles from hungary but I just want to help you a lil bit.

 

The Nimród could be two vehicles Nimród and Nimród late or Nimród 1944, the difference would be that the later model would get a fin stabilized HEAT grenade and the engine would be hungarian made.

Toldi I could be added as well and the Toldi IIAK with the side skirts. I dont know if you knew this and its not really important but the V4 had two variants, the difference was the hull.

 

The Turán I  can be two vehicles too, one without the side skirts and the late model with side skirts and with a better AP ammo. The Turán II can be separate vehicles as well, one without side skirts and the other one with side skirts and with added tracks as armour on the whole front of the vehicle.

 

Zrínyi II can be separate vehicles, the late models would get skirts and a lot of tracks added onto them that would increase weight and armor greatly.

 

Zrínyi I can be two separate vehicles, Zrínyi I and Zrínyi I sorozatvető. One with rockets and one without them. Tas could be two vehicles which would be the best in my opinion, one with the 75mm and the other with the 80mm gun.

 

BTR-80A could be named BTR-80A CURRUS, just visual changes, not really important.

 

I see you included the T-55 SZRP, question did you see it from my suggestion/topic? :Dbecause if yes I am very happy that someone used and uses the information I painstakingly searched for weeks. Love that you included the SZRP, its a rare vehicle that would be cool to have ingame.

 

I dont know if the T-72M1 is the normal one or with the Hungarian ERA, because there is a T-72M1 that has Hungarian ERA by Currus, the name it should get would be T-72M1 Currus, the ERA has 600mm of protection against HEAT.

 

You could add the Csepel trucks with AA guns that I posted here.

 

Hungarians have off road vehicles with METIS and other launchers which could be added.

 

Really cool vehicles you could add would be the Buzogányvető vehicles, I made a topic about the Nimród buzogányvető if you want some info on them and the rocket. You could add the Nimród, Krupp Protze and the Toldi Buzogányvető.

 

You could add PSZH with ATGMs, 2b9 and DE-81 mortar vehicles and other cool stuff from Hungary.

 

Again I like the tech tree, I just want to give you some info about Hungarian vehicles. If you want help, info or pictures about vehicles than just ask, I will gladly reply.

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by atta26hu

[Yontzee 1,676]

1 hour ago, atta26hu said:

Nice tech tree, love it!

 

I love the hungarian side of things, I like that you included a lot of vehicles from hungary but I just want to help you a lil bit.

 

The Nimród could be two vehicles Nimród and Nimród late or Nimród 1944, the difference would be that the later model would get a fin stabilized HEAT grenade and the engine would be hungarian made.

Toldi I could be added as well and the Toldi IIAK with the side skirts. I dont know if you knew this and its not really important but the V4 had two variants, the difference was the hull.

 

The Turán I  can be two vehicles too, one without the side skirts and the late model with side skirts and with a better AP ammo. The Turán II can be separate vehicles as well, one without side skirts and the other one with side skirts and with added tracks as armour on the whole front of the vehicle.

 

Zrínyi II can be separate vehicles, the late models would get skirts and a lot of tracks added onto them that would increase weight and armor greatly.

 

Zrínyi I can be two separate vehicles, Zrínyi I and Zrínyi I sorozatvető. One with rockets and one without them. Tas could be two vehicles which would be the best in my opinion, one with the 75mm and the other with the 80mm gun.

 

BTR-80A could be named BTR-80A CURRUS, just visual changes, not really important.

 

I see you included the T-55 SZRP, question did you see it from my suggestion/topic? :Dbecause if yes I am very happy that someone used and uses the information I painstakingly searched for weeks. Love that you included the SZRP, its a rare vehicle that would be cool to have ingame.

 

I dont know if the T-72M1 is the normal one or with the Hungarian ERA, because there is a T-72M1 that has Hungarian ERA by Currus, the name it should get would be T-72M1 Currus, the ERA has 600mm of protection against HEAT.

 

You could add the Csepel trucks with AA guns that I posted here.

 

Hungarians have off road vehicles with METIS and other launchers which could be added.

 

Really cool vehicles you could add would be the Buzogányvető vehicles, I made a topic about the Nimród buzogányvető if you want some info on them and the rocket. You could add the Nimród, Krupp Protze and the Toldi Buzogányvető.

 

You could add PSZH with ATGMs, 2b9 and DE-81 mortar vehicles and other cool stuff from Hungary.

 

Again I like the tech tree, I just want to give you some info about Hungarian vehicles. If you want help, info or pictures about vehicles than just ask, I will gladly reply.

 

Thanks! I really appreciate it. I’ll definitely make some changes when I get the opportunity and share it here. 
 

I did see your suggestion T-55 SZRP and thought it was a solid entry. As for the other vehicles I wasn’t aware of the variants and modifications of each. I definitely wasn’t tracking on the Hungarian T-72M1 Currus. I’ll have to look into that. 

[atta26hu 108]

17 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

Thanks! I really appreciate it. I’ll definitely make some changes when I get the opportunity and share it here. 
 

I did see your suggestion T-55 SZRP and thought it was a solid entry. As for the other vehicles I wasn’t aware of the variants and modifications of each. I definitely wasn’t tracking on the Hungarian T-72M1 Currus. I’ll have to look into that. 

Heres some info about the T-72 CURRUS

 

 

 

Some pictures of it:

 

Its not Kontakt-1 as some people might think, its a Hungarian made ERA. Currently there is little to no info on it, so it needs research.

 

This was showed off at the 1999 C+D millitary exhibition in Budapest.

It is a modernised T-72 with ERA.

 

This is hungarian made ERA which needs to be researched more, but what I could gather is that:

600mm cumulative protection

12.7 armor piercing bullets or incendiary projectiles and shrapnel from artillery do not detonate/initiate the reactive armor.

The blocks cannot initiate each other.

Reactive blocks can withstand the thermal effects of napalm for 20 minutes.

 

I will try to research more information about it.

 

sources:https://forum.index.hu/Article/showArticle?na_order=&na_start=19998&na_step=300&t=9010902

 

The only source I found while researching it in the past is one guy talking about it, there isn't any info in Haditechnika and other millitary newspapers, which is really unexpected (well, for me it is).

So take the info with a grain of salt.

 

But in my eyes I think the infos are probably true. From the source the guy also says that these infos were shown at the millitary exhibition.

[atta26hu 108]

24 minutes ago, __Fleks__ said:

If you decide to make an offer about the T-72 of Hungary, then here is a little information:
 

Reveal hidden contents

 

Nice picture! Yours is more clearer than what I have.

[atta26hu 108]

OH  MY GOD! Guys I found new info on the Hungarian special T-72 CURRUS.

 

The new system can reload 8-10 rounds per min. and has 5-6 seconds of reload!

 

Will post more info if I find more!

[atta26hu 108]

Okay so we know that it reduces penetration of HEAT projectiles by 60-70%, the problem is we dont know what kind of HEAT, ATGM was tested on it. Because on the SZRP we know the penetration of the cumulative weapon was around 800mm, but here we dont know.

Here is stabiliser compared to the old one, left one is the original on the T-72 and the right one is the modernised. I dont know if this is important or what do these mean but I think its worth to note them.

If anyone can explain what does this comparison mean I would be happy to read the reply.

Edited June 18, 2023 by atta26hu

[atta26hu 108]

If anyones wondering I used Internet archives wayback machine to find info, it did not disappoint. I found a considerable amount of info on the Hungarian T-72, but these what I posted are the ones that are important. Considering that this vehicle is rarely talked about I think I got quite an amount of info on it.

[Yontzee 1,676]

3 hours ago, __Fleks__ said:

If you decide to make an offer about the T-72 of Hungary, then here is a little information:
 

Hide contents

 

 

1 hour ago, atta26hu said:

If anyones wondering I used Internet archives wayback machine to find info, it did not disappoint. I found a considerable amount of info on the Hungarian T-72, but these what I posted are the ones that are important. Considering that this vehicle is rarely talked about I think I got quite an amount of info on it.

I appreciate it. The vehicle deserves a place in the tree