tech tree Visegrad Group - Ground tech tree

[AftiksPL 197]

Suggestion: Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) 

mit 7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24

 

Another vehicle built for the Germans, 4 prototypes were built at the end of 1944, one of them was sent to Germany for tests in 1945. They were armed with the KwK 37 L/24 gun (the same gun as in the early Pz. IV). It can function as a vehicle in the light tank or a tank destroyers lines on 1.7-2.0 Br. or as a premium vehicle.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by AftiksPL

[NeXeS-PL@psn 270]

KTO ROSOMAK ZSSW-30

 

Remote-Controlled Turret System, armed with a 30mm ATK Mk 44 Bushmaster II automatic cannon, a Rafael Spike LR dual anti-tank guided missile launcher and a 7.62mm UKM-2000C machine gun, mounted on a chassis that RosomakTekst comes from the MILMAG Military Magazine.

 Read more at: https://www.milmag.pl/szef-sztabu-generalnej-wp-w-hsw/

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

Suggestion: Armored car wz. 34-II armed with a 37mm cannon.

 

Vehicle for memes. Speed 50 km / h. The most modern variety, characterized by the use of a reinforced Polish Fiat 108-III engine (with a capacity of 995 cm³ and a power of 25 HP at 3600 rpm). In addition, the vehicles had a newer production rear axle from the Polski Fiat 618 car. Several further improvements were also made, including complete electrical installation and hydraulic brakes. Armed: Puteaux SA 18.

[AftiksPL 197]

Suggestion: OT-64 Cobra

 

Slovak modification of the OT-64, armed with a new one-man turret with a 2A42 30mm cannon, coupled MG PTK and the possibility of mounting a 9K111 Fagot missile launcher

[TheNexonRegime 429]

On 25/03/2021 at 19:19, TheNexonRegime said:

Whoever made the Dana and it's sister platform have unveiled a new one, Diana, which is more or less the same idea but brought to a much more modern standard

 

So I made a mistake, its actually called "Dita".

[NeXeS-PL@psn 270]

KTO ROSOMAK

Combat vehicle with Hitfist-30P turret (Rosomak) - wheeled infantry fighting vehicle equipped with a two-man turret with ATK Mk 44 cannon for 30 × 173 mm cartridge and UKM-2000C machine gun, 6 ZM Dezamet 902A smoke grenade launchers, 81 mm caliber connected to a self-shielding system SSP-1 OBRA-3 manufactured by Bumar Łabędy SA The vehicles of this version, used on missions outside the country, had reinforced ballistic armor (Rosomak-M1) and with anti-cumulative missile protection (RPG-7 and similar) QinetiQ RPGNet (Rosomak-M1M) .

+ IV level of protection

-  no water propellers

 

source:  Artykuł (obrum.gliwice.pl)

KTO ROSOMAK M1M

KTO ROSOMAK M1

Edited April 5, 2021 by NeXeS-PL@psn

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

Suggestion: 7.62 cm PaK 36 (r) auf Fgst. PzKpfw. II (F) (Sfl.) (Sd.Kfz. 132) 'Marder II'

 

According to some internet sources, it appears that the Germans also provided the Hungarian with at least one (or more) 7.62 cm PaK 36 (r) auf Fgst. PzKpfw. II (F) (Sfl.) (Sd.KFz. 132) Marder II, which was based on the Panzer II flamm tank chassis. This vehicle had a completely different suspension system and was armed with modified captured Soviet 7.62 cm field guns. This was probably supplied with the other Marder IIs at the end of 1942. It is not clear if this vehicle is included in the five previously mentioned Marder II. Sadly there is no more information about this vehicle in Hungarian service.

 

Currently, this vehicle is not in the German WT tree at this time so it can be used and the Hungarians were one ally that used this vehicle.

[RazNaRok 616]

On 03/04/2021 at 21:53, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: Armored car wz. 34-II armed with a 37mm cannon.

 

Vehicle for memes. ...

 

Khemm not to old?

Just Can't imagine the game play even on reserve with that mighty SA-18...

 

 

[RazNaRok 616]

On 01/10/2020 at 12:01, AkIvonDemolka said:

TKD is a good idea and would be more fun.

 

Ermmm... A carrier for the 47 mm anti-personnel gun wz.25 "Pocisk"?

The gun had a penetration of 25 mm at 750 m, but this result was obtained during tests against low strength plates...

 

Or maybe You just mean the TK-SD with 37mm wz.36 "Bofors"?

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by RazNaRok

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

On 09/04/2021 at 16:49, RazNaRok said:

 

Khemm not to old?

Just Can't imagine the game play even on reserve with that mighty SA-18...

 

 

 

Overall, the "powerful" Puteaux SA 18 is reasonably capable of fighting. It is also used as an armament for the French tanks in the game FCM.36 and H.35. And it is dangerous for tier I vehicles. It all depends on the player and the mode in which the game is played.

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

On 09/04/2021 at 17:06, RazNaRok said:

 

Ermmm... A carrier for the 47 mm anti-personnel gun wz.25 "Pocisk"?

The gun had a penetration of 25 mm at 750 m, but this result was obtained during tests against low strength plates...

 

Or maybe You just mean the TK-SD with 37mm wz.36 "Bofors"?

 

 

Both. TKD and TK-SD. Of course, you can find another vehicle instead of the TKD. Only here was supposed to be a transition from TKD to TK-SD.

[GrumpyStranger 723]

17 hours ago, AkIvonDemolka said:

It is also used as an armament for the French tanks in the game FCM.36 and H.35. And it is dangerous for tier I vehicles. It all depends on the player and the mode in which the game is played.

You mean the stuff that's been so terriffic to play that it's been relegated from 'Reserve' to 'Optional' despite having about twice  septuple as much armor as the polish armored cars. Right.

Edited April 12, 2021 by GrumpyStranger

[HufnagelPista 135]

13 minutes ago, GrumpyStranger said:

stuff that's been so terriffic to play that it's been relegated from 'Reserve' to 'Optional'

It was bad, thats not a question. But dont forget, that was on a slow vehicle. This cart should be significantly faster, (but that mighty 25Hp engine could prove this theory wrong)
 

[GrumpyStranger 723]

Nope. At 12HP/t it's not exactly a fast vehicle, and even putting that aside, the SA18 is nowhere near 'reasonably capable'. I remember it bouncing off angled sides or getting dissapeared by fenders.

 

Overal, it has most of the drawbacks of early french tanks while being succeptible to MG fire.

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

6 hours ago, GrumpyStranger said:

Nope. At 12HP/t it's not exactly a fast vehicle, and even putting that aside, the SA18 is nowhere near 'reasonably capable'. I remember it bouncing off angled sides or getting dissapeared by fenders.

 

Overal, it has most of the drawbacks of early french tanks while being succeptible to MG fire.

 

Only that it is about the armored car wz. 34-II, which has a more powerful 25 HP engine than the older version with 14 HP, and this is the difference. Besides, this vehicle is not a tank, and the armored car and armor are the same as other pre-war vehicles.

 

And up to SA 18 the fact in WT when shooting is sometimes strange, but also sometimes good.

 

 

[RazNaRok 616]

55 minutes ago, AkIvonDemolka said:

 

Only that ...

 

Look at it a little bit more objectively from the gameplay pov.

Relatively tall vehicle, with a weak engine, paper armor and outdated armament.

Will it be playable enough to keep ppl's interested in play with the reserve vehicles of tech tree ?

Edited April 12, 2021 by RazNaRok

[AftiksPL 197]

WZ.34 and other pre-war Polish armored cars cannot be added, they are simply too weak. Another thing is that the project already has a large number of machines for BR 1.0-1.3, and if you really need to add a new vehicle, there are better choices, such as PA-II Délový, Š-I-SPO, 27.M Ràba "Vr", Túran Prototype, Skoda T-13M or 7TP wzm. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by AftiksPL

[GrumpyStranger 723]

5 hours ago, AkIvonDemolka said:

 

Only that it is about the armored car wz. 34-II, which has a more powerful 25 HP engine than the older version with 14 HP, and this is the difference. Besides, this vehicle is not a tank, and the armored car and armor are the same as other pre-war vehicles.

 

And up to SA 18 the fact in WT when shooting is sometimes strange, but also sometimes good.

Am I somehow writing in broken english without realizing it?

I'm well aware that you cherry-picked the wz.34-II, that's why I wrote 12HP/t and not 8.

Actually, you know what, here. One of those things is not like the others.

 

Oh, by the way. Did I mention that the in-game R-35 has the SA-18 model 37, which is not the same thing as the Puteaux wz.18? The french gun has 1930s ammo, the polish one has turn of the century ammo. Let that sink in. This thing has a gun that's even worse than the legendarily terrible french SA-18. It uses AP shells that pre-date tanks.

 

It's really bewildering how something this obviously useless requires this much work to prove that it's useless...

[HufnagelPista 135]

14 hours ago, AkIvonDemolka said:

the older version with 14 HP

Bro, its almost weaker than the starter engine in my New Holland 

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

15 hours ago, GrumpyStranger said:

Am I somehow writing in broken english without realizing it?

I'm well aware that you cherry-picked the wz.34-II, that's why I wrote 12HP/t and not 8.

Actually, you know what, here. One of those things is not like the others.

 

Oh, by the way. Did I mention that the in-game R-35 has the SA-18 model 37, which is not the same thing as the Puteaux wz.18? The french gun has 1930s ammo, the polish one has turn of the century ammo. Let that sink in. This thing has a gun that's even worse than the legendarily terrible french SA-18. It uses AP shells that pre-date tanks.

 

It's really bewildering how something this obviously useless requires this much work to prove that it's useless...

 

Ok. I understand it was a bad idea. However, I found a different and better post-war machine.

[AkIvonDemolka 352]

Suggestion: BTR-40AZhD

 

This rail version was introduced in 1959 and produced until 1969. It received a "kit" of four adapted rail wheels placed on special supports. Production of this version is unknown. In Poland, modifications were made by installing a 14.5 mm double-coupled anti-aircraft machine gun ZU-2 with the Polish version of the PKM-2 on the BTR-40AZhD.

 

Technical data: ZU-2 The Polish version of the PKM-2 Caliber: 14.5 mm Weight in the marching position: 994 kg; combat: 639 kg Firing angle: 360º horizontally; -7º to + 90º vertically Rate of fire: theoretical: 1200 rounds / min; practical: 300 rds / min.

 

The vehicle was completed anti-aircraft vehicles in Visegrad post-war vehicles and you can safely add.

 

14.5 mm PKM-2 (also known as ZPU-2) is intended for anti-aircraft protection of subunits against helicopters and low-speed planes (up to approx. 600 km / h) at an altitude of up to 1400 m and to fight lightly armored targets.

 

[HufnagelPista 135]

On 14/04/2021 at 08:39, AkIvonDemolka said:

intended for anti-aircraft protection of subunits against helicopters and low-speed planes

14.5 mm... Without radar, or any optical-electronic magic... I dont know how effective this cart would have been irl. 
About the game... this is almost like the R3, just with less penetration, and much bigger profile. That italian time-traveller cart is widely hated by the community. 
I think this coffin would get the same tratment, because of the caprushers
 

Edited April 16, 2021 by HufnagelPista

[Miltaccfd 240]

On 07/03/2021 at 09:31, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: OT-810D

It was already in the suggestion, dont know why you asked for it.
 

On 24/03/2021 at 15:58, AftiksPL said:

- BTR-50PK Volant

- OT-62 Vydra I

- OT-62 Vydra II

- OT-62 with PTK 85mm gun

Im a little bit updating, I said yes for Volant and the 85 mm one, but Vydras are not really for this game. They are interesting, unique, but counting only on autocannons. They would be acceptable in SPAA roles, if needed, just like R3, but we already have the SPAAs of the tree, and I dont think we need to change or add more. HEAT ammunition developed in the Vydra project for the 30 mm guns will be added to the suggestion tho, as a possibility for Jesterka.
 

On 24/03/2021 at 13:30, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: T-34 R10

Someone already replied, but ill, too. This 57 mm gun fired a quite unique ammunition, which is not interchangeable with russian or other 57 mm ammo. So this gun can fire only what czechoslovakia developed. The thing is, there is no information about an AP round. There are slices of information, that it was planned, and would have been used on future SPAAs, of which there were only small mockups. But no testing or even manufacturing of the munition, no velocity, weight, anything known. Historically, this gun was operated with only HE ammo, an in ground battles around 3-4 mm penetration is ridiculously low, and I wont add it for this reason.

 

On 31/03/2021 at 02:36, AftiksPL said:

Suggestion: Hetzer Starr (Tatra 108)

I said yes for this vehicle too, will add this to the suggestion as a premium vehicle.

 

On 25/03/2021 at 10:16, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: OA S-971 Jarmila 82mm Vz. 59

This was already in the suggestion, too.

 

On 29/03/2021 at 18:20, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: Rosomak VSHORAD

This is awesome, but in this tree, we are overloaded with 8.0-10.7 SPAAs. I can count like... 12 or more of them Its not possible to add all. We have to choose, and I personally still think, that the STROP I -> Sopel -> Stalagmit is the best line we can have. Now this Rosomak is the second best for 8.0-8.3 SPAA, for the 9.3-10.0s the second in the line is STROP II and BRAMS, also maybe ZSU-23-4MP Biala. Hard to decide, but I think, I will go with what we already have there.

 

On 31/03/2021 at 23:24, Koreflash said:

Suggestion for SPAA 

1) STROP 2 

See my previous answer

On 31/03/2021 at 14:49, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: Samohybné děla Hummel 152 mm ShH vz. 18 / 47N or SD-152

Now... SD-152 is hard. Its a german tech, new caliber. After 1945, but lower than it should be in this tree. I think a lot of us wants it, but I dont see the need of it, and it would be a little bit weird to have it in the tree. Its not like an R3 in rank II/III, but eeh It looks like german, feels like german, but wants to be soviet, and in a lineup where there are these german vehicles are with german calibers... I think I will just wait, maybe the Hummel will be added to Germany, and see the reputation of the community. Maybe I will add it, maybe decide about not to add. I really have no idea. What do you want?
 

On 29/03/2021 at 22:21, AftiksPL said:

Suggestion:  15 cm Schweres Infanteriegeschütz 33/2 Selbstfahrlafette auf Jagdpanzer 38(t)

I decided to add this one as well as the short 75 Hetzer called Vollkettenaufklärer 38(t) Kanone 51.

 

On 02/04/2021 at 23:07, AftiksPL said:

Suggestion: Aufklärungspanzer 38(t) 

mit 7.5 cm KwK 37 L/24

This one is also hard. You probably know that we have problems in low tier, we can have max 4 or maybe, sometimes 5 folders per rank, max 10 premium vehicles per rank, because ingame there is only one exception, german rank 3 with I think 11 vehicles. Now, we have all 10 premium places filled and 7 rank 1 TDs in 4 folders. So, I can say its overfilled, and I cant see how I could add this. However, this vehicle is the 75 mm variant of the 20 mm 1.3 premium starter vehicle for Germany, so the solution is probably to add this vehicle to Germany. Germany has 6 rank 1 premiums if I remember well, so they can easily have it. Probably they will have the 150 mm and short 75 mm Hetzers too, I just add them here too, because there is place for and you want to see them. Even if I said before I dont want to add as many protos for Germany as possible

 

On 03/04/2021 at 10:39, NeXeS-PL@psn said:

KTO ROSOMAK ZSSW-30

I should probably add this, even if there is nothing special about it. We already have the Rosomak Scipio in the tree, which could have a Slovak modification. I might will do a research on it, because the most common problem with these vehicles are the number of missiles. If you have only 2 missiles, you can not be effective in a WT battle. Anything under 4 ammo is a no-go. Probably this is going to have 4, but I want to be sure.

 

On 03/04/2021 at 21:53, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: Armored car wz. 34-II

No Low pen, low mobility, bad armour. Not a 1.0.
 

On 04/04/2021 at 19:21, AftiksPL said:

Suggestion: OT-64 Cobra

Mmmaybe. Same story as before, I want to be sure it has at least 4 missiles to shoot. Right now, I just dont know, I found no source that claims its number of missiles carried.

 

On 05/04/2021 at 12:38, NeXeS-PL@psn said:

KTO ROSOMAK

Armament of only an autocannon with around 100 mm of pen is not enough. Even if it gets the most modern APFSDS round for it (I dont know its operated or not), its just around 150 mm of pen, which is less than it should be to call it an acceptable main armament. If something is armed with an autoannon only, it has to be an SPAA, a low tier or a high caliber (at least 40 mm, because of penetration, needs to be over 170-200 mm) AC to be viable. Rosomak is not an SPAA, not low tier, nor has powerful gun or missiles for hard targets.

 

On 07/04/2021 at 09:28, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: 7.62 cm PaK 36 (r) auf Fgst. PzKpfw. II (F) (Sfl.) (Sd.Kfz. 132) 'Marder II'

Thats something else, which needs to be German. Its possible to be add as a premium or something still, I already have the Marder II as a premium in this tree, but I dont feel its right

 

On 09/04/2021 at 17:06, RazNaRok said:

Ermmm... A carrier for the 47 mm anti-personnel gun wz.25 "Pocisk"?

The gun had a penetration of 25 mm at 750 m, but this result was obtained during tests against low strength plates...

 

Or maybe You just mean the TK-SD with 37mm wz.36 "Bofors"?

We were speaking about the SA.18 guns or maybe the Toldis or other 20 mm stuff, and I think I said I wouldnt like to add something with 36 (SA.18 with APCR) or 31-34 mm of pen (S-18/100 with APHE), because its not good enough. The only exception is TKD. Unlike the 37 mm APCR and 20 mm APHE with 1,4-1,7 g TNTe, the 47 mm cannon would do something when penetrates. It would have 41-44,4 g TNTe, enough to kill anything if pens. Also, unlike the Toldis or wz.34-II, TKD is small, more like a meme vehicle. I feel TKD would be much better to use ingame, even if it has less pen than the SA.18 (33 mm instead of 36) and not such a fast firing gun like an AT rilfe with clips like S-18/100. You do not bounce from anything because you are shooting APCR and you dont suffer with projectiles under 2 gramms of explosive mass. Still not a good TD, as I said, more like a meme machine.

 

On 14/04/2021 at 08:39, AkIvonDemolka said:

Suggestion: BTR-40AZhD

Another SPAA, not needed. Even if there is something needed around 3.0-3.3 (like BTR-152 with the same guns), I would add the Robur LO-1800A or Csepel D-344 with a ZPU-2 But as I said before, if possible, I dont add post-war stuff to low BRs.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Miltaccfd

[AftiksPL 197]

1 hour ago, Miltaccfd said:

I should probably add this, even if there is nothing special about it. We already have the Rosomak Scipio in the tree, which could have a Slovak modification. I might will do a research on it, because the most common problem with these vehicles are the number of missiles. If you have only 2 missiles, you can not be effective in a WT battle. Anything under 4 ammo is a no-go. Probably this is going to have 4, but I want to be sure.

As far as I know, it's supposed to take 2+2 or 2+3 Spike missles. This and the possibility of changing the caliber of the main gun to 40mm should probably be enough.

1 hour ago, Miltaccfd said:

and I cant see how I could add this.

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I would love to see this vehicle and the 150mm Hetzer in the light tank line (Aufklärungpanzer at 1.7 between LT-40 and T-15. and 150mm Hetzer at 3.0-3.3). Both are based on the LT-38 chassis, both are prototypes for the Germans and have not entered mass production like the T-15 and THN n.A.

Edited April 17, 2021 by AftiksPL

[RazNaRok 616]

13 hours ago, Miltaccfd said:

TKD is small, more like a meme vehicle. I feel TKD would be much better to use ingame

 

Keep in mind that the known penetration values of the 47mm wz.25 cannon are overstated. The tests were carried out using mild steel plates.

It will be better to give it up in favor of the TK-SD with the 37mm Bofors wz.36 cannon.

Unless you need a transition vehicle to the TK-SD with a heavily limited MM and BR 1.0

Edited April 18, 2021 by RazNaRok