techtree Argentine Air Forces Tech tree

[OsO73 491]

3 hours ago, Xenecrite said:

SM.79B:

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Keeping this site can help and occasionally be useful for your aerial tree. This site lists most of the planes used in each country from WW1 until today plus they are colored.

Enjoy it

https://cse.google.ru/cse?cx=partner-pub-6141657215653160%3Aqmow5l623ra&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Argentine&sa=Search

Thanks !!!

As for the SM.79, i have it as a possible addition, but i can't seem to find anything about it, no reports or pictures. if i manage to find something about it being used by the AAF ill surely add it.

[Xenecrite 899]

@OsO73

Here I found a proof for the Savoia Marchetti SM.79B Argentina :

 

Prototype white black:

The evaluation was positive in the different tests, and in the competition was among the finalists, but even if he does not win the contract for the Regia Aeronautica, obtained it the green light for its export.
After participating in the Regia Contest ,the Savoia Marchetti SM79B was widely performed in many foreign air forces, including, Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, China, Czechoslovakia, Finland, Iraq, Romania, Russia, Spain, Turkey and Yugoslavia.



The Romanian Air Force, immediately ordered 24 engines combined with Gnome Rhome Mistral Major K.14, which disengaged with some success and the time to think about the expansion of the Romanian Air Force demanded a further batch of 24 but this SM79B was of providing with a more powerful and reliable engine Junkers Jumo 211Da of 1220 hp 12-cylinder in-line and cooled with liquid. At the same time the Romanian Aviation Industry of Bucharest, buy the licensed production of SM.79B, going to call SM79JR (Junkers Romanian). Without gondola and new tail in the new design.
The performance of SM79JR had a top speed of 445 km / h at 5000 m (faster than any "Sparviero"! Except for the SM79-III) ascends up to 3050 m in 8 minutes and 40 seconds. (More than two minutes better of the SM.79B/A80) with a maximum of 7400 m tangency, and weights 7194 kg and vacuum 10790 kg load, the bomber transformed the first election to send to the Russian front, while the front SM 79B were bound to tasks of transport.
Iraq, ordered 4 SM.79B/A.80 SM.79B more one of the prototypes at that time the SM.79B/A.80 in the Middle East was the most advanced aircraft in service, and the revolt in this country against British forces, gave quite a hard time, however, the revolt was finally suppressed by Great Britain and all the iraqui SM.79B were destroyed.
In South America the SM.79B participated in the1937 Contest for a new bomber for the Argentine Army, is the occasion was comented that the SM79B have a lack of maneuverability; The Savoia Marchetti Pilot Just jump on the aircraft and took her to flight, running inmmediatamente 4 Loops! The SM.79B won. But after loggistic considerations, for the beginning of war in Europe, finally made the Argentine government ordered 35 Martin-135W bombers.

 

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

Source:

Dimensione Cielo Bombardieri-4 di Ed. Bizzarri-Roma
Profile No. 89 Profile Publications Ltd,Illustrated Encyclopedia of Aircraft No. 80,Aerei 10/1987Aerofan 1 / 82Storia dell’Aviazione Ed. Fabbri

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/contest-1934-a-speedy-bomber-for-the-royal-italian-air-force.13013/

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Xenecrite

[PlanyKaanere 722]

On 23 de agosto de 2020 at 07:21, OsO73 said:

 

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Due to recently noticing that there are too much attachments ill have to reduce the quality of some pics and get rid of the least needed ones. 

 

I recommend you to use an external image hosting site (Imgur for example), and copy the url of the images onto the post. That way, you won't need to use attachment space.

[OsO73 491]

4 hours ago, Xenecrite said:

@OsO73

Here I found a proof for the Savoia Marchetti SM.79B Argentina :

 

Prototype white black:

The evaluation was positive in the different tests, and in the competition was among the finalists, but even if he does not win the contract for the Regia Aeronautica, obtained it the green light for its export.
After participating in the Regia Contest ,the Savoia Marchetti SM79B was widely performed in many foreign air forces, including, Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, China, Czechoslovakia, Finland, Iraq, Romania, Russia, Spain, Turkey and Yugoslavia.



The Romanian Air Force, immediately ordered 24 engines combined with Gnome Rhome Mistral Major K.14, which disengaged with some success and the time to think about the expansion of the Romanian Air Force demanded a further batch of 24 but this SM79B was of providing with a more powerful and reliable engine Junkers Jumo 211Da of 1220 hp 12-cylinder in-line and cooled with liquid. At the same time the Romanian Aviation Industry of Bucharest, buy the licensed production of SM.79B, going to call SM79JR (Junkers Romanian). Without gondola and new tail in the new design.
The performance of SM79JR had a top speed of 445 km / h at 5000 m (faster than any "Sparviero"! Except for the SM79-III) ascends up to 3050 m in 8 minutes and 40 seconds. (More than two minutes better of the SM.79B/A80) with a maximum of 7400 m tangency, and weights 7194 kg and vacuum 10790 kg load, the bomber transformed the first election to send to the Russian front, while the front SM 79B were bound to tasks of transport.
Iraq, ordered 4 SM.79B/A.80 SM.79B more one of the prototypes at that time the SM.79B/A.80 in the Middle East was the most advanced aircraft in service, and the revolt in this country against British forces, gave quite a hard time, however, the revolt was finally suppressed by Great Britain and all the iraqui SM.79B were destroyed.
In South America the SM.79B participated in the1937 Contest for a new bomber for the Argentine Army, is the occasion was comented that the SM79B have a lack of maneuverability; The Savoia Marchetti Pilot Just jump on the aircraft and took her to flight, running inmmediatamente 4 Loops! The SM.79B won. But after loggistic considerations, for the beginning of war in Europe, finally made the Argentine government ordered 35 Martin-135W bombers.

 

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  Reveal hidden contents

 

Source:

Dimensione Cielo Bombardieri-4 di Ed. Bizzarri-Roma
Profile No. 89 Profile Publications Ltd,Illustrated Encyclopedia of Aircraft No. 80,Aerei 10/1987Aerofan 1 / 82Storia dell’Aviazione Ed. Fabbri

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/contest-1934-a-speedy-bomber-for-the-royal-italian-air-force.13013/

 

Wow, thank you so much !!!

I guess this aircraft could be a rank 2 premium (since we don't have any premium bombers in rank II) but also the regular tree kinda lacks a 2.X bomber... too, ill have to compare and see where to put it. 

4 hours ago, PlanyKaanere said:

 

I recommend you to use an external image hosting site (Imgur for example), and copy the url of the images onto the post. That way, you won't need to use attachment space.

thanks ! ill try that 

[ARGENTVS 292]

No IAe-27?. The Pulqui I existed and was a failure but flew and isn't much worse than the Mig-9s and P-80s.

 

 

The IA-63 as Camberra replacement?. I wouldn't do that. The Pampa is a light advanced jet trainer with limited and very small payload which heavily reduces it's performance. Can only carry 2/4 small bombs like in reserve planes or small rockets or a belly pod for machine guns on 7.62. A 12.7 MG pod was made and tested but never used and a 30 mm pod was never built and in theory proppossed for the IA-63 Pampa III from 2014-2020, none made.

 

The bomber line should die at the Camberras.

 

The IA-63 is a poor choice for the game save like a subsonic small fighter for support, it has superb maneuverability but no speed to mach any jet fighter. It was made based on the AlphaJet design by a team of Dornier and FMA engineers, different wings, single engine with computer limited power, short range, weak structural wing bars for loads as it was intended as a trainer that has to be cheap to operate in advanced training for fighter and attack pilots simulating with it's computer weapons before pilots were sent to their destiny units where they would convert to the actual fighters.

 

There is an IA-68 attack jet that was cancelled by political plays that was part of the program of aeronautical development for 1980-2000s. You could add this to the attack line after the Daggers and A-4s, but it never exited the technical design papers.

 

https://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/los-ia-58-pucará-con-turborreactores.57720/

 

 

https://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/el-avión-de-ataque-avanzado-fma-ia-68.56141/

 

The intention was that the IA-63 Pampa would serve to retrain engineers, modernize construction methods, introduced computer assisted design and introduce new technologies as the contract with Dornier did.
From the IA-63 experience a bigger IA-68 would appear to replace the A-4, the MS.760 and Aermacchis. By the 1990 a next program IA-xx known in internet as the fictional SAIA-90 was the end goal with a twin engine mid-light fighter with similar performances to the F-18.

 

 

Back to the IA-68, it started in 1975 by the IA-60 of Vicecommodore Engineer Hector Ruiz, chief of the Engineering Department of the Military Factory of Aircraft.

 

 

 

The Air Force rejected the proposal and the project died in wind tunnel mock up test in 1976.

 

https://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/fma-ia-60-anteproyecto-de-avión-de-entrenamiento-y-ataque.30564/

 

But in 1979 the FAA requested the works on the program that would become the IA-63 Pampa. After the 1982 Southern Atlantic Conflict (actual official name in Argentina of the Malvinas War), the Materials Area Río Cuarto (technical area of the Air Force) propossed the Advanced Strike Aircraft (Avión de Ataque Avanzado) which would be a similar design to the AMX International. It started as a heavy modification of the IA-63 called Avión de Ataque Intermedio (Intermediate Strike Aircraft).

 

 

There was also other Pucarás.

If you want premium IA-58 you could put the prototype with the Garret TPE331-U-303 turbofan that was discarded in favor of the Turbomeca, in a very failed move.

 

 

There was also proposals to make jet engine Pucarás:

 

In 1969 an intern proposal for project was made with 2 Turbomeca Astafan I turbojets put to the sides of the fuselaje, eliminating the engine beds and leaving just the landing gear covers in order to make the minimal modifications possible to the IA-58 base design. The 2 1200kg of jet trust would make the aircraft reach 750km/h in level flight.
The initial pre-project was called AX-2, intended its mission to be aerial reconnaissance and photography.

 

In 1974 Reimar Horten and an internal group of engineers in the Aeronautical and Space Research Institute proposed another variant that was called IA-59. The model shortened the fuselaje and included the more powerful Turbomeca Astafan IV. The Air Force never showed interest in the concept and it was died in the research institute, being the last work made by Horten in Argentina.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by ARGENTVS

[OsO73 491]

1 hour ago, ARGENTVS said:

No IAe-27?. The Pulqui I existed and was a failure but flew and isn't much worse than the Mig-9s and P-80s.

 

 

I thought about adding it, but i really haven't found any information about it being fitted with armament, it was more go a technology demonstrator than a fighter, i can consider it but there are too much compromises (Spitfre and Ñamcu) (and nope, it wasn't a failure, it was the first jet we made, it can't be perfect)

1 hour ago, ARGENTVS said:

The IA-63 as Camberra replacement?. I wouldn't do that. The Pampa is a light advanced jet trainer with limited and very small payload which heavily reduces it's performance. Can only carry 2/4 small bombs like in reserve planes or small rockets or a belly pod for machine guns on 7.62. A 12.7 MG pod was made and tested but never used and a 30 mm pod was never built and in theory proppossed for the IA-63 Pampa III from 2014-2020, none made.

 

The bomber line should die at the Camberras.

 

The IA-63 is a poor choice for the game save like a subsonic small fighter for support, it has superb maneuverability but no speed to mach any jet fighter. It was made based on the AlphaJet design by a team of Dornier and FMA engineers, different wings, single engine with computer limited power, short range, weak structural wing bars for loads as it was intended as a trainer that has to be cheap to operate in advanced training for fighter and attack pilots simulating with it's computer weapons before pilots were sent to their destiny units where they would convert to the actual fighters.

As you can see in the TT image, the line ends with the Canberras, the Ia.63s follow as a separate thing that will not require the Canberras to be researched, they can be researched as soon as the rank is unlocked. 

 

Im sorry to digress, but the Pampa, much like the Alpha jet, was design to be used in a light CAS role, it can carry a pretty substancial payload when it comes to bombs or rockets, 125/250Kg bombs, LAU-60/Mamboreta/Zuni Rockets, 7.62 Mg pods and the Ventral 30mm pod (DEFA or Mauser), all were tested and used. 

Spoiler

The Pampa In game will give players a different option for CAS, since its performance its quite poor to dogfight with other jets. The aircraft will end up between 7.7 and 8.0 (where the aircraft will not be OP and it will have somewhat of a chance to be effective).

 

1 hour ago, ARGENTVS said:

There is an IA-68 attack jet that was cancelled by political plays that was part of the program of aeronautical development for 1980-2000s. You could add this to the attack line after the Daggers and A-4s, but it never exited the technical design papers.

 

https://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/los-ia-58-pucará-con-turborreactores.57720/

 

 

https://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/el-avión-de-ataque-avanzado-fma-ia-68.56141/

 

The intention was that the IA-63 Pampa would serve to retrain engineers, modernize construction methods, introduced computer assisted design and introduce new technologies as the contract with Dornier did.
From the IA-63 experience a bigger IA-68 would appear to replace the A-4, the MS.760 and Aermacchis. By the 1990 a next program IA-xx known in internet as the fictional SAIA-90 was the end goal with a twin engine mid-light fighter with similar performances to the F-18.

 

 

Back to the IA-68, it started in 1975 by the IA-60 of Vicecommodore Engineer Hector Ruiz, chief of the Engineering Department of the Military Factory of Aircraft.

 

 

 

The Air Force rejected the proposal and the project died in wind tunnel mock up test in 1976.

 

https://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/fma-ia-60-anteproyecto-de-avión-de-entrenamiento-y-ataque.30564/

 

But in 1979 the FAA requested the works on the program that would become the IA-63 Pampa. After the 1982 Southern Atlantic Conflict (actual official name in Argentina of the Malvinas War), the Materials Area Río Cuarto (technical area of the Air Force) propossed the Advanced Strike Aircraft (Avión de Ataque Avanzado) which would be a similar design to the AMX International. It started as a heavy modification of the IA-63 called Avión de Ataque Intermedio (Intermediate Strike Aircraft).

 

Im not adding something that didnt existed, as you can see all the aircraft in the tree flew, there are few compromises, like the I.Ae.30 and the spitfire who flew without armament, but that can be excused since its they were supposed to be armed. I can't compromise a full aircraft, so no paper designs.

 

1 hour ago, ARGENTVS said:

If you want premium IA-58 you could put the prototype with the Garret TPE331-U-303 turbofan that was discarded in favor of the Turbomeca, in a very failed move.

 

This aircraft is already on the tree, its called Ia.66 and it goes after the Ia.58D. The premium pucaras are the B version and others used by foregin air forces. 

1 hour ago, ARGENTVS said:

In 1969 an intern proposal for project was made with 2 Turbomeca Astafan I turbojets put to the sides of the fuselaje, eliminating the engine beds and leaving just the landing gear covers in order to make the minimal modifications possible to the IA-58 base design. The 2 1200kg of jet trust would make the aircraft reach 750km/h in level flight.
The initial pre-project was called AX-2, intended its mission to be aerial reconnaissance and photography.

 

In 1974 Reimar Horten and an internal group of engineers in the Aeronautical and Space Research Institute proposed another variant that was called IA-59. The model shortened the fuselaje and included the more powerful Turbomeca Astafan IV. The Air Force never showed interest in the concept and it was died in the research institute, being the last work made by Horten in Argentina.

 

 

Again, no paper designs, cool to know about the plane tho

Edited September 2, 2020 by OsO73

[ARGENTVS 292]

4 hours ago, OsO73 said:

I thought about adding it, but i really haven't found any information about it being fitted with armament, it was more go a technology demonstrator than a fighter, i can consider it but there are too much compromises (Spitfre and Ñamcu) (and nope, it wasn't a failure, it was the first jet we made, it can't be perfect)

As you can see in the TT image, the line ends with the Canberras, the Ia.63s follow as a separate thing that will not require the Canberras to be researched, they can be researched as soon as the rank is unlocked. 

 

Im sorry to digress, but the Pampa, much like the Alpha jet, was design to be used in a light CAS role, it can carry a pretty substancial payload when it comes to bombs or rockets, 125/250Kg bombs, LAU-60/Mamboreta/Zuni Rockets, 7.62 Mg pods and the Ventral 30mm pod (DEFA or Mauser), all were tested and used. 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Pampa In game will give players a different option for CAS, since its performance its quite poor to dogfight with other jets. The aircraft will end up between 7.7 and 8.0 (where the aircraft will not be OP and it will have somewhat of a chance to be effective).

 

Im not adding something that didnt existed, as you can see all the aircraft in the tree flew, there are few compromises, like the I.Ae.30 and the spitfire who flew without armament, but that can be excused since its they were supposed to be armed. I can't compromise a full aircraft, so no paper designs.

 

This aircraft is already on the tree, its called Ia.66 and it goes after the Ia.58D. The premium pucaras are the B version and others used by foregin air forces. 

Again, no paper designs, cool to know about the plane tho

 

4 hours ago, OsO73 said:

I thought about adding it, but i really haven't found any information about it being fitted with armament, it was more go a technology demonstrator than a fighter, i can consider it but there are too much compromises (Spitfre and Ñamcu) (and nope, it wasn't a failure, it was the first jet we made, it can't be perfect)

As you can see in the TT image, the line ends with the Canberras, the Ia.63s follow as a separate thing that will not require the Canberras to be researched, they can be researched as soon as the rank is unlocked. 

 

Im sorry to digress, but the Pampa, much like the Alpha jet, was design to be used in a light CAS role, it can carry a pretty substancial payload when it comes to bombs or rockets, 125/250Kg bombs, LAU-60/Mamboreta/Zuni Rockets, 7.62 Mg pods and the Ventral 30mm pod (DEFA or Mauser), all were tested and used. 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Pampa In game will give players a different option for CAS, since its performance its quite poor to dogfight with other jets. The aircraft will end up between 7.7 and 8.0 (where the aircraft will not be OP and it will have somewhat of a chance to be effective).

 

Im not adding something that didnt existed, as you can see all the aircraft in the tree flew, there are few compromises, like the I.Ae.30 and the spitfire who flew without armament, but that can be excused since its they were supposed to be armed. I can't compromise a full aircraft, so no paper designs.

 

This aircraft is already on the tree, its called Ia.66 and it goes after the Ia.58D. The premium pucaras are the B version and others used by foregin air forces. 

Again, no paper designs, cool to know about the plane tho

Well, considering that there is some paper machines in game that never saw light, we could have this ones to fill gaps. I would make them costly in research and grant very low silver gains in battle.

The 30 mm was never tested in the Pampa, it was fitted to a pod but never actually used and the Air Force doesn't want it.

No, the Pampa was not designed for CAS. Its performance is lacking badly, to carry full load of small bombs it loses a very good chunk of speed since its engine has low power. For the Pampa III they bought engines without thrust capping to increase weight/thrust ratio.

The plane was made as trainer, weapons were to be simulated by the computer and small rockets and practice bombs or 7.62 mm gun pod were requested for training not CAS. The "light attack" capabilities are due current political and economical realities and are not really wanted by the Air Force but are pushed by the factory and the government as propaganda programs.

Edited September 3, 2020 by ARGENTVS

[OsO73 491]

16 minutes ago, ARGENTVS said:

 

Well, considering that there is some paper machines in game that never saw light, we could have this ones to fill gaps. I would make them costly in research and grant very low silver gains in battle.

Paper vehicles should not be used to fill gaps and in this case we are not lacking a top tier jet attacker, we already have a pretty good number of aircraft that can fulfill the CAS role, A-4s/Mirage V/M5 Dagger/SUE to name a few.

Edited September 3, 2020 by OsO73

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

On 02/09/2020 at 12:20, ARGENTVS said:

No IAe-27?. The Pulqui I existed and was a failure but flew and isn't much worse than the Mig-9s and P-80s.

 

 

 

At best, an armed version of the Pulqui I (with its proposed 4 x 20 mm Hispano armament, with an option for bombs and rockets) would be comparable to the P-59 in-game.  Even the unarmed prototype could only reach a top speed of around 450 mph, which would drop even further on a combat-capable version.  The one major advantage it'd have is that even the slower jets tend to be really good at energy retention, especially when coming out of a dive (you can see this in the Yak-15s - you're almost never going to get them to their listed top speed in a straight line, but coming out of a dive one can get them close to it and have them maintain it for a long time).

Edited September 7, 2020 by Z3r0_

[OsO73 491]

42 minutes ago, Z3r0_ said:

 

At best, an armed version of the Pulqui I (with its proposed 4 x 20 mm Hispano armament, with an option for bombs and rockets) would be comparable to the P-59 in-game.  Even the unarmed prototype could only reach a top speed of around 450 mph, which would drop even further on a combat-capable version.  The one major advantage it'd have is that even the slower jets tend to be really good at energy retention, especially when coming out of a dive (you can see this in the Yak-15s - you're almost never going to get them to their listed top speed in a straight line, but coming out of a dive one can get them close to it and have them maintain it for a long time).

If im not mistaken, there were 2 stages of the prototype, one with complete wings, and other that reduced the surface area trading it for speed, the aircraft was the first jet made in SA, its more of a demonstrator rather than a fighter. 

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

6 minutes ago, OsO73 said:

If im not mistaken, there were 2 stages of the prototype, one with complete wings, and other that reduced the surface area trading it for speed, the aircraft was the first jet made in SA, its more of a demonstrator rather than a fighter. 

 

From what I could find, it was proposed to arm the Pulqui I in a hypothetical production model, but its performance was deemed disappointing, especially when comparably-performing piston-engined fighters could be purchased as cheap surplus from the victorious Allied Powers after World War II.  It still provided useful test data that went into the Pulqui II though, which probably would have been a successful aircraft had its development cycle not been so protracted (and I would argue that it still could have seen some use as a fighter-bomber, like the F-84 and G.91 when they were no longer competitive with the latest fighter aircraft).

Edited September 7, 2020 by Z3r0_

[OsO73 491]

7 minutes ago, Z3r0_ said:

 

From what I could find, it was proposed to arm the Pulqui I in a hypothetical production model, but its performance was deemed disappointing, especially when comparably-performing piston-engined fighters could be purchased as cheap surplus from the victorious Allied Powers after World War II.  It still provided useful test data that went into the Pulqui II though, which probably would have been a successful aircraft had its development cycle not been so protracted (and I would argue that it still could have seen some use as a fighter-bomber, like the F-84 and G.91 when they were no longer competitive with the latest fighter aircraft).

Thats why its test/experiment, the followup (pulqui II) was the design that was thought as a fighter from the start.

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

2 minutes ago, OsO73 said:

Thats why its test/experiment, the followup (pulqui II) was the design that was thought as a fighter from the start.

 

Of course, if it was added, it wouldn't be the first jet in-game to have armament when the real plane was unarmed, that distinction going to the Sea Meteor on the British tree (and there's a number of aircraft that feature ahistorical armament besides that, like the Ho 229 with MK 103s, when, as far as I know, it was supposed to use MG 151s or MK 108s if it actually entered production).

[OsO73 491]

8 minutes ago, Z3r0_ said:

 

Of course, if it was added, it wouldn't be the first jet in-game to have armament when the real plane was unarmed, that distinction going to the Sea Meteor on the British tree (and there's a number of aircraft that feature ahistorical armament besides that, like the Ho 229 with MK 103s, when, as far as I know, it was supposed to use MG 151s or MK 108s if it actually entered production).

i kinda left those compromises for the Ñamcu and the Spitfire, since both were supposed to have armament and they never got it. (the less compromises, the better) 

[Sargent_Joe 0]

I believe that the avro lancaster is missing in the TT. Great work on the TT though.

[OsO73 491]

On 08/11/2020 at 18:19, Sargent_Joe said:

I believe that the avro lancaster is missing in the TT. Great work on the TT though.

The Lancaster B Mk.I is present in the tree, compared to the one found in the British tree, this can carry guided bombs !

 

[OsO73 491]

Update !!!

We see some BR changes, the moving of the Mirage VP to the main fighter line and the addition of 2 aircraft, An SM.79B and the Super Etendard Modernise. 

Spoiler

Im currently working on on the naval tree, i hope to finish soon !

[Bladehold 2]

Acá se puede visitar el interior de varios aviones entre ellos I Ae 33 Pulqui II y I Ae 27 Pulqui I.

http://noticiasenvuelo.faa.mil.ar/mna/index.htm

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

2 hours ago, Bladehold said:

Acá se puede visitar el interior de varios aviones entre ellos I Ae 33 Pulqui II y I Ae 27 Pulqui I.

http://noticiasenvuelo.faa.mil.ar/mna/index.htm

 

I kind-of understand what you're saying, but please post in English moving forward.  This is the English-language forum, after all.

[OsO73 491]

14 minutes ago, Z3r0_ said:

 

I kind-of understand what you're saying, but please post in English moving forward.  This is the English-language forum, after all.

Its a link to a site that belongs to the MNA (National Aeronautics Museum/Museo Nacional de Aeronautica) Where you can see the cockpits of most aircraft featured in this suggestion on a 360º view, its kinda crude, but its pretty cool !

[Z3r0_ 4,128]

On 15/01/2021 at 14:39, OsO73 said:

Its a link to a site that belongs to the MNA (National Aeronautics Museum/Museo Nacional de Aeronautica) Where you can see the cockpits of most aircraft featured in this suggestion on a 360º view, its kinda crude, but its pretty cool !

 

I figured it had something to do with them (my Spanish is rusty at best, and since I live in the Southwestern US I'm most familiar with the Mexican dialect, not Argentinian Spanish).

Edited January 17, 2021 by Z3r0_

[OsO73 491]

Quick update:

The G59 is re-added and the M.S.760 "Paris" is passed to the "researchable" tree as an starter jet+changes in Br.

Spoiler

 

[OsO73 491]

Update!

Ill be adding the criteria that i use for the tree, this might not sound like much, but is a great way to understand my choices when it came to my selection of Aircraft for this tree, this doesn't mean that the tree is complete, various aircraft are "on hold" awaiting to be added, meanwhile i want you to know whats my criteria to select and add them.

Criteria (Air forces):

Spoiler

When it comes to Aircraft, things become a bit more conditioned and complicated, Why? lets start:

• Aircraft used and adopted by the Argentine Air Force (Examples: A-4, Mirage, Pucara, etc)
• Aircraft used by the neighboring nations of Uruguay/Paraguay (Premiums, Examples: F6F, T-33, etc)
• Aircraft received by argentina as donations by foreign nations (Examples: Spitfire, Hurricane, etc)
• Prototypes Finished/Partially finished (Must flew) (Examples: Pulqui Series, Pucara Charlie, Ñancu, etc)
• Aircraft bought by Argentina but never arrived to the country: This is a tricky one, 2/3 examples can be found, Meteors Mk.IIIs bought and flew under argentine Serials, never left Britain, Israeli A-4Hs bought by the Argentine Navy, prepared and painted in Argentine colors, equipment arrived to argentina but the aircraft didn't, Same scenario with Later versions of British Canberras. (all examples wore argentine livery)
• Experimental (and non experimental) Armament used and tested by aircraft (Examples: PAT-1 bomb, AAMs, etc)
• Aircraft used by the Argentine-British squadron in WW2 + Aircraft used by argentine volunteers in the RAF (Premiums only, Examples: Spitfire, Hurricane, B-24, etc)

This is mostly all of the criteria i used to select the aircraft, i hope i can finish the tree soon so we can have a good picture of how many aircraft we have and if it we have gaps, or any other issues.

 

[ARGENTVS 292]

Why is the M-V Mara a fighter in top tier?.

The Mirage V's bought to Peru are very old. The A-4Ar is much more complex and advanced to it. 

The M-III EA es more new.

The A-4Ar too seems off, is too much more modern. Is a plane made in 1998, the upgrade included F-16B15 electronics improved nearly the B30 standards. Seems out of the game's timeline.

[OsO73 491]

3 hours ago, ARGENTVS said:

Why is the M-V Mara a fighter in top tier?.

The Mirage V's bought to Peru are very old. The A-4Ar is much more complex and advanced to it. 

The M-III EA es more new.

The A-4Ar too seems off, is too much more modern. Is a plane made in 1998, the upgrade included F-16B15 electronics improved nearly the B30 standards. Seems out of the game's timeline.

The  Mirage Vp and Vp "Mara" sit momentarily as top tier while i tried to balance the other aircraft a bit (it will be back to the attacker line pretty soon). But i must say, that the MARA is a bit more capable than the IIIEA, having RWR, Flares and Chaff and better avionics (despite not having a radar).

Sadly the A-4AR lags behind in some aspects, the fact of being subsonic and not being able to carry more than 2 missiles puts it in a very complicated spot, its a recent modernization of the A-4M, and thats make its a great aircraft, but it will have a hard time against most of its Supersonic adversaries.