Why not move all BF-109 F4 to 4.7?

[MSGKI_HARA_UOOH 2,828]

3.3 planes fighting F4 that can turn better, has better speed+acceleration, has better cannon, more ammo is just isnt fun

Even worse is when you just unlocked E4, A6M2, Spitfire Mk2B  you get to fight boat load of F4 on the enemy team.

The game becomes how many F4 you can bring in the team and its not fun.

[MrBader 516]

Hi,

Could not agree more.

[TheFoxInTheBox_ 217]

Haven't I already seen this kind of discussion about a dozen times before? 

[FORNAX_USA 71]

That plane is gonna do extremely well no matter what BR its put at. What really is the issue is the plethora of planes that are just not good. Remember when spitfires were actually dangerous for example. Yeah I don't either. 

[Daffan 6,158]

On 02/03/2020 at 18:53, Samuel_Hyde said:

3.3 planes fighting F4 that can turn better, has better speed+acceleration, has better cannon, more ammo is just isnt fun

Even worse is when you just unlocked E4, A6M2, Spitfire Mk2B  you get to fight boat load of F4 on the enemy team.

The game becomes how many F4 you can bring in the team and its not fun.

F4 is better than G2 yet lower BR in RB and AB. Funny. 

 

How can Gaijin leave F4 at 4.0 and G2 at 5.3 ? 

 

LMAOOOOOOOOOO

 

  

On 03/03/2020 at 04:20, TheFoxInTheBox_ said:

Haven't I already seen this kind of discussion about a dozen times before? 

 

Did the problem go away?

 

no

 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by DaffanZ

[MSGKI_HARA_UOOH 2,828]

4 hours ago, DaffanZ said:

F4 is better than G2 yet lower BR in RB and AB. Funny.

 

even worse is in AB it actually flies the same as G2.

G2 has a slightly better turn rate though, rivaling N1K2 with way higher BR

N1K2 doesnt have any advantage when fighting G2 or F4 because it doesnt hold infinite energy like G2 or F4

The wing mounted cannons are Type 99 mk 2 which is to say, not as good and not as precise compared to MG151

If the N1Ks dropped to 5.0 and 4.7 nobody would be angry because it suits the BR.

currently N1Ks fighting post war planes and jets with 4.7 plane performance.

 

Inb4 the "bUt iTs tHe lAsT fUn pLaNe!"

Having fun in expense of others misery?

i bet F4s and G2 responsible for thousands of players quitting WT

Edited March 4, 2020 by Samuel_Hyde

[Daffan 6,158]

1 hour ago, Samuel_Hyde said:

 

even worse is in AB it actually flies the same as G2.

G2 has a slightly better turn rate though, rivaling N1K2 with way higher BR

N1K2 doesnt have any advantage when fighting G2 or F4 because it doesnt hold infinite energy like G2 or F4

The wing mounted cannons are Type 99 mk 2 which is to say, not as good and not as precise compared to MG151

If the N1Ks dropped to 5.0 and 4.7 nobody would be angry because it suits the BR.

currently N1Ks fighting post war planes and jets with 4.7 plane performance.

 

Inb4 the "bUt iTs tHe lAsT fUn pLaNe!"

Having fun in expense of others misery?

i bet F4s and G2 responsible for thousands of players quitting WT

F4 for sure, ppl who spawn trapped and beginner will hate it. 

[KRISTINA_SEXY 20]

If you move the BF-109 F4 to 4.7, then no one will fly on a German fighter!))

[sardinha08@psn 3,179]

13 hours ago, KRISTINA_SEXY said:

If you move the BF-109 F4 to 4.7, then no one will fly on a German fighter!))

I would, at 4.7 there aren't any downtiered J2M2s  

 

On 03/03/2020 at 19:00, KentuckyKillaRUS said:

That plane is gonna do extremely well no matter what BR its put at. What really is the issue is the plethora of planes that are just not good. Remember when spitfires were actually dangerous for example. Yeah I don't either. 

This is the main problem.

Bf109 F-4 used to be 3.0/3.3 BR, they are now 4.0 and players still complain about them(I do too, for different reasons), raising it's BR hasn't solved anything, they are still good, and they would still be good at 4.7 or even at 6.0. Raising the BR isn't a good solution and I really don't want to play more WW2 planes against Cold War jets, what we need is that those once great planes that used to be competitive in this game get back to being competitive and good as they should.

[Head3masher 2,272]

Lol the F versions are like UFO.

[TheFoxInTheBox_ 217]

The flight models of the F-4 variants are a little much in arcade. A flat turning F-4 can out turn a rudder turning Yak-3P, for example. 

[PARAMI 478]

Yeah most 109s just fly super well. I agree with Fornax in that a lot of planes just don't fly as well as 109s do in terms of controllability and ease of use. 

[_MoNtaNa_ 928]

Ki84 Hei 6.7 

Bf109 F4 4.0

 

HAHAHA, btw F4 at 6.3 would solve the problem

[Lexing_ 241]

Raising BR's won't solve anything, as any fighter with a good pilot behind the controls is a serious threat. I've personally brought the F4 and G2 to par against F84B's, but again, I wish the Spitfires were good again, I wish the La-7B was good again, I wish the Ki84s were good again. As said before, there were so many great planes 4 years ago, the likes of P47M, Spitfire mkXVI, Ki 84 ko, etc etc. It also depends on the plane. The only reason the P47D's are still so low is because so many people use them as CAS, when in fact it was an air superiority fighter. I can testify that the P47D-28 could easily go up to 3.7-4.0. The problem with the F-4 is that it has no blatant weaknesses, whereas every other fighter in this game does. For the late 109's such as the G6 and K4, it's relatively poor sustained turn radius compared to other planes such as the G56. The early 109's also have problems, because their lower wing area hurts their vertical energy retention and low speed handling. The F-4 is really the perfect balance of performance and guns, but other planes were very competitive as well a long time ago.  The Spit 2b was a serious threat to the F4, and planes like the Yak 3 would eat the F4 for lunch. 

 

So, in a nutshell,

 

MAKE EVERY FIGHTER COMPETITIVE AGAIN.

[DocProfit 2,663]

The BR isn't the problem.

 

The problem is the gap between the 109 and other planes, such as the spitfire, in terms of it's flight model and firepower.

 

There is no way in hell a 109E, F, or G  series dominated every spitfire of it's time period in such an overwhelming fashion in real life.

 

In fact pretty much every report and pilot testimony I've ever seen or read says the spitfire was the better plane overall.

 

So Gijian need to either nerf the 109's, or better, buff planes like the spitfire 2B, Vb trop and IX, back to their former selves (particularly the hispano cannons which are terrible now) so we can have more planes to actually fly and some competition in the sky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[blastedryan 967]

1 hour ago, DocProfit said:

There is no way in hell a 109E, F, or G  series dominated every spitfire of it's time period in such an overwhelming fashion in real life.

 

In fact pretty much every report and pilot testimony I've ever seen or read says the spitfire was the better plane overall.

We're talking about arcade here. If WW2 was fought with planes with boosted engines the results would be completely different.

[Kosher_Locust 120]

I've seen people using "F" models in games against BR 6-6.3 players with some success.  Why it works isn't the puny 15mm pod cannon but the insane maneuverability and high speed machine gun.  Like other planes such as the I-15 a rapid fire machine gun can make a lot of difference.  I would vote in cutting down the performance--in real life the "F" was an early war plane, but then this isn't real life.  And yes, I remember when Spitfires could perform.

[_HansJurgen_ 129]

On 17/04/2020 at 02:08, DocProfit said:

The BR isn't the problem.

 

The problem is the gap between the 109 and other planes, such as the spitfire, in terms of it's flight model and firepower.

 

There is no way in hell a 109E, F, or G  series dominated every spitfire of it's time period in such an overwhelming fashion in real life.

 

In fact pretty much every report and pilot testimony I've ever seen or read says the spitfire was the better plane overall.

 

So Gijian need to either nerf the 109's, or better, buff planes like the spitfire 2B, Vb trop and IX, back to their former selves (particularly the hispano cannons which are terrible now) so we can have more planes to actually fly and some competition in the sky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is an issue just in arcade, and it is a recent one, more or less. Spitfires used to be better. This is not an issue in RB, where, in fact, the opposite is true, and spitfires dominate BF 109s at every tier.

The issue isn't that the F4 is good, but rather that most other planes are garbage and their flight models and ammo has went through numerous "adjustments" which made them terrible.

P-47 is also very good, most russian fighters have ufo flight models using their rudder a lot, but their ammo good nerfed into oblivion, and the recent swedish planes just wreck everything including F4s with their laser guns, and they are just BR 3.7. 

P-51 used to be good too, but its flight model was ruined some patches ago.

[Lexing_ 241]

On 23/04/2020 at 14:47, sfpeter68 said:

I've seen people using "F" models in games against BR 6-6.3 players with some success.  Why it works isn't the puny 15mm pod cannon but the insane maneuverability and high speed machine gun.  Like other planes such as the I-15 a rapid fire machine gun can make a lot of difference.  I would vote in cutting down the performance--in real life the "F" was an early war plane, but then this isn't real life.  And yes, I remember when Spitfires could perform.

Why cut down on the performance of the F4 when the J2m2 can climb at 45 degrees at sea level without losing speed while being a 3.7...?

[Challenger_TA 421]

I would move the 109f4 to 4.3 for now and start moving some of the190s down to 4.0-4.7 range

 

I didn't think it was a secret why the 109g2 had a higher br in arcade it can have 3x 20mm 151 more recently there were some nerfs to running pods.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by Challenger_TA

[Lexing_ 241]

12 hours ago, Challenger_TA said:

I would move the 109f4 to 4.3 for now and start moving some of the190s down to 4.0-4.7 range

 

I didn't think it was a secret why the 109g2 had a higher br in arcade it can have 3x 20mm 151 more recently there were some nerfs to running pods.

 

 

I think raising BRs are never good, but rather I would personally like Spitfires buffed back to their pre-1.53 state, and then the LAs, the Yaks, the A7Ms, the Hellcats, the 190s, etc etc.

 

However cutting down the BR of the 190 D9 is not a good idea, you'd be creating a monster xD. I love that plane already at 5.0 and if you can downtier it to 4.3 that guarantees downtiered games to 3.7-3.3.

[Sarin 2,329]

190A are overtiered in general, especially the "cannonship" A5/U12 (I think). With all the additions and changes since they were released, they can offer very little, only guns (and these days, everyone can do with 2 cannons for most engagements) and dive capabilities...but they'll have hard time climbing back up.

[Lexing_ 241]

56 minutes ago, Sarin said:

190A are overtiered in general, especially the "cannonship" A5/U12 (I think). With all the additions and changes since they were released, they can offer very little, only guns (and these days, everyone can do with 2 cannons for most engagements) and dive capabilities...but they'll have hard time climbing back up.

In RB it's a different story though, the 190A1 is overpowered there.

[Luftkatze_ 4]

The Bf 109 F4 has also its weaknesses. While having a good overall flight and combat performance, is also very vulnerable to enemy guns and quite easy to shoot down.

For example, P-51s and P-47s are a serious threat when they hit the target, as well as Swedish planes, since the F-4's engine and airframe suffer from even the slightest damage, which can severely affect their overall performance. The only chance the F-4s stand against them is turnfighting.

 

 

Edited May 23, 2020 by Luftkatze_

[Kosher_Locust 120]

1 hour ago, Luftkatze_ said:

The Bf 109 F4 has also its weaknesses. While having a good overall flight and combat performance, is also very vulnerable to enemy guns and quite easy to shoot down.

For example, P-51s and P-47s are a serious threat when they hit the target, as well as Swedish planes, since the F-4's engine and airframe suffer from even the slightest damage, which can severely affect their overall performance. The only chance the F-4s stand against them is turnfighting.

 

 

 

This is mostly true, but if you think of another plane that has good overall flight performance, turns well, is moderately armed but easily damaged....you have the Japanese Zero.  However people don't use those all over because the flight model isn't far off the real plane--nimble but not very fast, and the guns seem far weaker than the real plane.  The F4's advantage is it retains an unreal amount of energy in turns and loops so while a higher BR plane slows down it can keep up.  It should perform between the "E" and "G" series not because of the letters of the alphabet but because of the order they were developed.  The "E" is a competent plane but was a pre-war design and lightly armed and powered compared to later--you don't see many of those in the game, at least past BR 3.

 

The "F2" was the legendary plane that nearly wiped out the Russian Air Force....in 1941 against their early planes, and the "F4" was the cleanest and best handling basic fighter, while the "G" was faster and heavier armed but showed how the basic design was being modded to fit different roles.  If they kept all things equal and pared off the energy retention of the F4 it would closer reflect the real plane--more nimble than a "G" but not able to keep up with later fighters by turning and looping.  The F4 was regarded as slightly better than a Spitfire Mark V--a lot from things we don't see in game like fuel injection and a variable speed supercharger--and the V could out turn an F4 in a level plane.  Or more simply, in a game with magic elves that reload the plane in mid-air and instant reincarnation the F4 performs beyond what it should.

Edited May 23, 2020 by sfpeter68