Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29S (9-13S) "Fulcrum-C" - The Legendary Renowned Steel Bird

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

Hello and welcome back to another suggestion that's probably surprising you, for what it is and it's coming from me.

 

Recently my view and opinion on rank 7 jets changed quite a bit. I now believe they have a place in the game with interesting gameplay. 

 

If you want my full arguments for tier 7, click here and read carefully

 

This suggestion is actually long overdue; my friend @MonkeyBussiness suggested it to me months ago but as the MiG-29A which is the export version so I'm suggesting the MiG-29S, the first true Soviet MiG-29 which had a better avionics package, ground-attack capabilities (although limited) and a wider range of missiles. 

 

Before I begin, I must stress out that this is NOT a priority because tier 6 is still fairly new and we're missing the century series and quite a handful of jets to place there! 

 

Tier 7 right now is no priority, and when/if added, the BRs should be proper ones. This is just a suggestion for the future (and I want to make it before somebody else takes the cake )

There's also a suggestion on an East German MiG-29UB, an inferior version to the MiG-29S by a good amount. In my opinion (and I think logically), the USSR is supposed to get the best variants because the jets belong to them, so I think this is a good idea for the future (MiG-29S for the USSR, MiG-29UB for the GDR).

 

 

Now let's go. First tab is important too! 

 

 

Quick overview:

 

(serial 904 with four FAB-500M-62 bombs)

 

Spoiler

 

The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29S (NATO codename "Fulcrum-C") is a supersonic, mach 2-capable twin-engine air superiority jet fighter designed around the need for the Soviets to counter new American aircraft such as the F-15 and F-16. 

 

This specific variant took to the air for the first time on the 4th of May, 1984, after being converted from the "9-12" standard. Then, in 1985, it received the Gardeniya-1 radar jammer. Mass production commenced a year later in 1986. The multistage upgrade of the 9-13 subverstion in the second half of the 1980s brought the more capable 9-13S deriative to life; and that's when it received the designation "MiG-29S". Its maiden flight took place in January 1989, and later remedied its predecessor's lack of range by introducing a provision for two 1,150 litre underwing tanks, making it possible to increase the total fuel capacity to 8,420 litres and giving it a maximum flight range of 2,900 km

 

In comparison to its first export brethren, the MiG-29A (both "9-12A" and "9-12B" sub-variants), the MiG-29S boasted:

 

1- An improved avionics package, including the new NO19M Topaz-M pulse-doppler radar with detection range against fighter-sized targets of up to 100 km (1,564 nm) and the ability to track ten targets, simultaneous dual-target engagements as well as better protection from active radar jamming.

2- Ground attack capabilities ranging up to 4,000 kg (8,818.5 lbs) of ordnance in the heaviest configurations comprising of 5 x FAB-500M-52 bombs and 2 x R-73 AAMs or 8 x FAB-500M-52

3- A bulge spine aft the cockpit initially designed for increased internal fuel capacity (although by just 240 liters) and to house the Gardeniya-1 radar jammer

4- The optional addition of the new and very deadly R-77 "Adder" air-to-air missiles, alongside the capability of firing two simultaneously

5- With the new radar also came the extended-range R-27ER SARH-homing and R-27ET IR-homing missiles with a maximum high-level/head-on range of 70 km (IR variant)

6- New and improved IRST, which supported a more accurate gun-firing mode

7- It was able to fire its Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-301 30mm cannon, even with an underfuselage external fuel tank, something impossible on the MiG-29A

8- An increased operational Angle of Attack (AoA) of 28 degrees, compared to the MiG-29A's baseline of 26 degrees

 

 

 

 

History, design and development:

 

 

Spoiler

 

NATO allocated the new reporting name 'Fulcrum-C' for aircraft fitted with a bulged and extended spine, which reportedly houses both fuel and avionics, and which may also be applied through retrofit. Internal fuel is increased by provision of larger No. 1 fuel tank, though different sources disagree as to the size of the increase (75, 130, 175 or 240 litres/20, 34, 46 or 63 US gal, according to Mikoyan documents). Soviet sources suggest that the 'Fulcrum-C' is still simply designated MiG-29, although the nickname 'Gorbatov' (hunchback) is commonly used.

 

The first 'fatbacked' MiG-29 was 9-13, the second pre-production aircraft, which first flew on 23 December 1984, in the hands of V.M. Gorbunov. At one time the 'Fulcrum-C' seemed to be slowly replacing the 'Fulcrum-A' in VVS service, bu the two types continued in production alongside one another and often serve in the same units (occasionally with the very early ventral-finned MiG-29s). Pilots report that apart from endurance, there is no difference in flying/operating characteristics, although some sources suggest that the 'Fulcrum-C' has an enhanced ground attack capability and/or provision for an active jammer. Certainly the 9-13 has redesigned wingtips which appear to accomodate new RWR antennas. No 'hunchbacked' 'Fulcrum-Cs' have been exported yet, though Malaysia's MiG-29s may prove to be based on the 'Fulcrum-C'.

 

The 9-13 formed the basis of the improved MiG-29S (9-13S), which was designed as an increased-capability version of the standard MiG-29. According to Mikoyan, the MiG-29S represents "what happened when we squeezed all we could from the basic MiG-29 airframe." The new variant has a new modified flight control system, using small computers to improve stability and controllability, and the control surfaces have greater deflection. Alpha and g limits are increased. All MiG-29S features can be incorporated by upgrading existing 'Fulcrum-Cs', and MAPO is aggressively marketing a similar upgrade for export 'Fulcrum-As'.

The MiG-29S introduces revised radar/weapons system algorithms and software (and it is believed that processing capacity has been increased) to allow for the simultaneous tracking and engagement of multiple targets. The modified radar is redesignated N-019M. Operational capability has been enhanced by fitting a new sighting system, and more recently by making provision for the active homing AAM-AE 'AMRAAMski'. The first MiG-29S made its maiden flight during 1984, and three prototypes were followed by new production aircraft and conversions. Two polk (squadrons) are in service.

 

The designation MiG-29SE has been applied to an export version of the MiG-29S. This has a slightly downgraded radar (the N-019ME) which retains multiple-target tracking and which may give compatibility with AAM-AE. An aircraft displayed at Le Bourget in June 1993 was not a MiG-29SE, but was a standard MiG-29 variant plumbed for the carriage of underwing fuel tanks, but this is untrue, since many Soviet 'Fulcrum-As' have been seen carrying these for ferry flights. The MiG-29S may, however, be the first variant stressed to carry underwing tanks in combat, or to have provision for extra pylons (like the MiG-29M and the MiG-29K) to allow tanks to be carried without sacrificing weapons, and is the first export model offered with underwing tanks. External warload is doubled by the simple expedient of restressing the inner underwing pylons to carry up to four 500-kg (1,102-lb) bombs in side-by-side tandem pairs. 

 

Other improvements are allocated in the first tab of the OP.

 

The end of the Cold War has led to a dramatic down-scaling of MiG-29 production, both for the VVS and for the export customers. Production in Moscow (at the Labour Banner factory) and in Nizhny Novograd continues at a very low rate, adding to a June 1993 stockpile which totalled about 100 unsold aircraft. A July 1993 Malaysian order for the MiG-29 may have been for some of these aicraft upgraded to MiG-29SE standards, or for MiG-29Ms. The 18 aircraft on order include some two-seaters (perhaps as many as six). Hungary's MiG-29s have been described as MiG-29Ss by some sources, but are actually standard 'Fulcrum-As'.

 

 

 

 

Cockpit:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Internal Components:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Camouflages:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Specifications

 

 

Spoiler

 

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29S (9-13S) "Fulcrum-C"

 

 

General Characteristics

 

First flight:  5th of May, 1984 (9-13 deriative), January 1989 (9-13S deriative)

Role:  Air superiority fighter

Number built:  432 

Status:  Production, canceled (1986 - 1991)

Crew: 1

Length: 17.32 m (56.82 ft)

Wingspan: 11.36 m (37.27 ft)

Wing area: 38.1 m ² (410 ft²)

Height: 4.73 m (15.52 ft)

Empty weight: 10,900 kg (24,030.387 lbs)

Loaded weight (clean): 14,300 kg (31,526 lbs)

Loaded weight (2 x R-27R1, 4 x R-60): 15,600 kg (34,392 lbs)

Max. takeoff weight: 19,700 kg (43,431 lbs)

Max. landing weight: 14,200 kg (31,305.6 lbs)

Powerplant: 2 x Klimov RD-33 afterburning turbojets:

• without afterburner: 4,326 kgf (42.44 kN, 11,100 lbf) (each), 8,652 kgf (84.44 kN, 22,200 lbf) (total)
• with afterburner: 8,298 kgf (81.4 kN, 18,300 lbf) (each), 16,596 kgf (162.8 kN, 36,600 lbf) (total)

 

Performance

 

Maximum speed:

• at sea level (normal thrust): 1,185 km/h (736 mph, 640 kts)
• at sea level (full power): 1,530 km/h (950.7 mph, 826 kts)
• at altitude (11,000 m / 36,100 ft) (full power): 2,400 km/h (1,491 mph, 1,296 kts)

Stall speed (clean):  240 km/h (149 mph, 130 kts)

Landing speed (clean): 250 km/h (155 mph, 135 kts)

Never-exceed speed (=IAS):  1,500 km/h 

Never-exceed speed (=M):  2.3M

Rate of climb:  330 m/s (1,082.68 ft/s) (full power)

Service ceiling: 

• clean: 18,000 m (59,055 ft)
• with two AAMs: 17,500 m (57,415 ft)

G tolerance: 

• Positive: +9G
• Negative: -3G

Range: 

• Low-level, internal fuel: 710 km (441 mi, 383 nmi)
• High altitude, internal fuel: 1,500 km (932 mi, 810 nmi)
• Ferry, underfuselage tank: 2,100 km (1,305 mi, 1,134 nmi)
• Ferry, underfuselage tank, two wingtip tanks: 2,900 km (1,802 mi, 1,566 nmi)

Wing loading:

• Empty weight: 286.089239 kg/m ² (58.6 lb/ft ²)
• Loaded weight (clean): 375.328084 kg/m ² (76.87 lb/ft ²)
• Loaded weight (2 x R-72R1, 4 x R-60): 409.448819 kg/m ²  (83.86 lb/ft ²)
• Max. takeoff weight: 517.060367 kg/m ² (105.9 lb/ft ²)
• Max. landing weight: 372.703412 kg/m ² (76.34 lb/ft ²)

Thrust/weight (without afterburner):

 

• Empty weight: 0.79
• Loaded weight (clean): 0.60
• Loaded weight (2 x R-72R1, 4 x R-60): 0.55
• Max. takeoff weight: 0.44
• Max. landing weight: 0.61

Thrust/weight (with afterburner):

 

• Empty weight: 1.52
• Loaded weight (clean): 1.16
• Loaded weight (2 x R-72R1, 4 x R-60): 1.06
• Max. takeoff weight: 0.84
• Max. landing weight: 1.17

 

Armament

 

NOTE:  for this aircraft, there are many and endless weaponry combinations. I'll roughly summarize them a bit in my words then insert the full list of possible offensive armament selections. For example, it could combine R-73s and R-27R1s, 5 x FAB-500M-62 and 2 x R-73, etc. 

 

Guns: 1 x 30mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-301 autocannon (150 rds)

Missiles: 

• 2 - 6 x R-60M infrared-homing / heat-seeking air-to-air missiles

or

• 2 - 6 x R-73 / R-73M / R-74M infrared-homing / heat-seeking air-to-air missiles

or

• 2 - 6 x R-27R1 semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 2 - 6 x R-27ER1 semi-active radar-homing air-to-air missiles

or

• 2 - 6 x R-27T1 infrared-homing / heat-seeking air-to-air missiles

or

• 2 - 6 x R-27TE1 infrared-homing / heat-seeking air-to-air missiles

Bombs: 

• 2 - 10 x FAB-250M-62

or

• 2 - 8 x FAB-500M-62

or

• 2 - 8 x ZB-500GD / ZB-500SH

Rockets:

• 4 x B-8M1 rocketpods (18 x 57mm S-5K rockets each)

or

• 4 x 240mm S-24 unguided rockets

Countermeasures:

• Flares: 20SP flares dispenser, 2 x BVP-30-26 blocks (64 total PPI-26 or PPR-26)
• ECM system

Electronics:

• Radar: NO19M Topaz-M search & tracking pulse-doppler radar, fighter-sized target detection up to 100 km, capable of tracking 10 targets simultaneously 
• Radar Warning Receiver (RWR): SPO-15LM Beryoza / L005 Sorbitsiya radar-warning-receiver (RWR), 360° horizontal coverage and 30° up and down in elevation.
• IRST (Infrared Search & Track): OEPS-27 IRST; detection range up to 50 km against a receding target (tail-on), 90-100 km @ high altitude against a target with afterburner(s) activated
• Other: such as flight navigation systems, etc

 

 

 

Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to first read the link I added at the beginning of the post ( or here ) if you're going to argue with this addition.

 

Fan art!

 

 

 

Sources/References:

 

 

Spoiler

• Yefim Gordon, Famous Russian Aircraft: Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29. Ian Allan Publishing, 2010

 

• Soviet Cold War Fighters (1947 - 1991) - © Alexander Mladenov 2016

 

• Fourth Generation Stars - Roman Ashtakov

 

• Wings of the Motherland - Mikhail Levin

Edited October 19, 2021 by EpicBlitzkrieg87

[ItssLuBu 1,803]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[ColdMatches 943]

Yes, but the only thing I worry about all higher gen fighters is how Gaijin will (or will not most likely) separate them with BRs. If they ever come.

 

Also could this carry any Kh-23, Kh-25s?

Edited March 28, 2020 by ColdMatches

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

13 hours ago, ColdMatches said:

Yes, but the only thing I worry about all higher gen fighters is how Gaijin will (or will not most likely) separate them with BRs. If they ever come.

 

 

I think, by the time they come, all of our top tier 6 jets (the upcoming ones, I imagine we'll have the MiG-21bis, MiG-23ML or MLA, F-4J or S, etc) will be feasible enough to counter gen 4 fighters in case they get matched up with them. Those top tier 6 jets would have powerful missiles like the R-60M, R-23T, R-24T, AIM-9L, etc, with the addition of flares on all of them. 

 

13 hours ago, ColdMatches said:

Also could this carry any Kh-23, Kh-25s?

 

None at all. As I mentioned in the first tab (quick overview): 

 

Quote

2- Ground attack capabilities ranging up to 4,000 kg (8,818.5 lbs) of ordnance in the heaviest configurations comprising of 5 x FAB-500M-52 bombs and 2 x R-73 AAMs or 8 x FAB-500M-

 

The "Kh" type of AGMs / air-to-surface missiles came with the radically reworked MiG-29M (the Kh-25ML and Kh-29T)

 

[ColdMatches 943]

3 minutes ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

The "Kh" type of AGMs / air-to-surface missiles came with the radically reworked MiG-29M (the Kh-25ML and Kh-29T) 

Hmm, I guess I'll wait for that, or the Su-25/27 if it would ever appear.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

3 minutes ago, ColdMatches said:

Hmm, I guess I'll wait for that, or the Su-25/27 if it would ever appear.

 

You can wait for the Su-7BKL and Su-17M or M2/3/4, one of those variants  they're very well possible for tier 6 and you never know, they might come next patch. The first MiG-29s (MiG-29A "9-12A" and "9-12B" and MiG-29S "9-13S") were air superiority fighters. Starting with the MiG-29M the Fulcrum became a multirole jet. 

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

OMG such a good looking jet , thanks for mentionning me but you did ALL the job , great article btw :p

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

from a gameplay point of view i would like to see some stock loadout like 6 R-60M for example and when fully spaded you can carry the R-73 with BVR missile like the R-27 or even maybe the R-77

[Milocat 4,857]

Eventual +1 from me.  Sooner or later I think this will be worth adding to the game.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

8 hours ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

OMG such a good looking jet , thanks for mentionning me but you did ALL the job , great article btw :p

 

Thanks  

[Warlock_Leader 292]

About time someone made this! 

 

+1000

 

Interesting starting with the 29S and not the 29A? Or was the "A" a western designation?

Edited April 5, 2020 by DarkSideSix

[lambsauce 150]

58 minutes ago, DarkSideSix said:

About time someone made this! 

 

+1000

 

Interesting starting with the 29S and not the 29A? Or was the "A" a western designation?

Already a suggestion for a DDR MiG-29A, which was inferior even to the standard Soviet MiG-29A, so the Russians get the top version for the time... as they should.

[Bringer_Of_War 901]

+1 , just want to know , why not a Su-27 ? 

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

29 minutes ago, _ArchangelAzrael said:

+1 , just want to know , why not a Su-27 ? 

because epic is a Mig's fan but don't worry i'm pretty sure a suggestion on the Su-27 is coming

1 hour ago, DarkSideSix said:

Interesting starting with the 29S and not the 29A? Or was the "A" a western designation?

the "A" is the export version for the warsaw pact (close friend) and that's why it's in the germany's suggestion and not here

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

3 hours ago, _ArchangelAzrael said:

+1 , just want to know , why not a Su-27 ? 

 

There's still some reading for me to do

 

4 hours ago, DarkSideSix said:

Interesting starting with the 29S and not the 29A? Or was the "A" a western designation?

 

The MiG-29A was purely an export model, "Product 9-12A" was for Warsaw Pact countries only and "9-12B" was for non-WP countries 

 

"9-13" is a prototype and the one that forged the way to the production MiG-29S

 

3 hours ago, lambsauce said:

Already a suggestion for a DDR MiG-29A, which was inferior even to the standard Soviet MiG-29A, so the Russians get the top version for the time... as they should.

 

This also

Edited April 5, 2020 by EpicBlitzkrieg87

[RanchSauce39 397]

5 hours ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

 

 

MIG29S At some point. Although when it does get added i foresee that itl might be restricted from R77's unless gajin adds post cold war variations of teen fighters and other nato aircraft  with Aim120.

 

Either that or decision made active guided misisles like Aim120 or R77 are not added to prevent players from having a missile that can eventually become "fire and forget" when it goes pitbull as well as preventing multishot capability that comes with associated TWS radar modes utilized with active guided radar missiles.

 

7 hours ago, lambsauce said:

Already a suggestion for a DDR MiG-29A, which was inferior even to the standard Soviet MiG-29A, so the Russians get the top version for the time... as they should.

 

if needs to be more competitive a better suggestion would be a post reunification  Luftwaffe MIg29G.

 

something of an unofficial designation given the Lufwaffe mig29's with modifications to make the former DDR Mig29A compatible with NATO communications and IFF systems.

 

 

 since soviet era 9.12A's had IFF removed Not having any form of IFF system in a generation 4 era of aircraft would be detrimental, when many of the current tiers 6 endgame aircraft have IFF systems.

Edited April 5, 2020 by RanchSauce39

[Warlock_Leader 292]

On 05/04/2020 at 13:13, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

The MiG-29A was purely an export model, "Product 9-12A" was for Warsaw Pact countries only and "9-12B" was for non-WP countries 

Ahhh, ok, makes sense. Can't wait to see it. I'm going to guess we will begin seeing these after Rank 7 Aircraft are announced with Patch 2.01 or, well actually i don't know if i can make that prediction anymore since the whole global movement restrictions thing. Not sure how Gaijin devs are going to handle continued research and what not.

Edited April 7, 2020 by DarkSideSix

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

On 05/04/2020 at 22:13, RanchSauce39 said:

MIG29S At some point. Although when it does get added i foresee that itl might be restricted from R77's unless gajin adds post cold war variations of teen fighters and other nato aircraft  with Aim120.

 

Either that or decision made active guided misisles like Aim120 or R77 are not added to prevent players from having a missile that can eventually become "fire and forget" when it goes pitbull as well as preventing multishot capability that comes with associated TWS radar modes utilized with active guided radar missiles.

 

+1 

 

1 hour ago, DarkSideSix said:

Ahhh, ok, makes sense. Can't wait to see it. I'm going to guess we will begin seeing these after Rank 7 Aircraft are announced with Patch 2.01 or, well actually i don't know if i can make that prediction anymore since the whole global movement restrictions thing. Not sure how Gaijin devs are going to handle continued research and what not.

 

Smin told us that first they're going to flesh out rank 6 here, so I wouldn't expect tier 7 that soon

 

 

[Warlock_Leader 292]

1 hour ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

+1 

 

 

Smin told us that first they're going to flesh out rank 6 here, so I wouldn't expect tier 7 that soon

 

 

Well, i'm going mainly based on a post that was released awhile ago that predicted the release of a new tech tree (sweden), and the introduction of a new rank of aircraft. The former came true but the latter has yet to be fulfilled. I thought 2.01 was a good patch since it's the version 2 of War Thunder, which could potentially bring a variety of grand improvements. It's also possible for them to split the Rank VI and VII with the introduction of Radar Guided Missile capable aircraft, or generally more advanced such as MiG-23's Mig-27's, F-5E's, Mirage, etc... There's definitely still potential to see Rank VII aircraft this year, and it doesn't hav to be 4th gen just yet.

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

8 minutes ago, DarkSideSix said:

Well, i'm going mainly based on a post that was released awhile ago that predicted the release of a new tech tree (sweden), and the introduction of a new rank of aircraft. The former came true but the latter has yet to be fulfilled. I thought 2.01 was a good patch since it's the version 2 of War Thunder, which could potentially bring a variety of grand improvements. It's also possible for them to split the Rank VI and VII with the introduction of Radar Guided Missile capable aircraft, or generally more advanced such as MiG-23's Mig-27's, F-5E's, Mirage, etc... There's definitely still potential to see Rank VII aircraft this year, and it doesn't hav to be 4th gen just yet.

 

But doing that would place the F-4C and other mach 2 jets at rank 7. Some SARH missiles were underwhelming like the AIM-7C, D and possibly the E variant. For the Russians it's the R-3R although it has good range. All of them were easily prone to notching and ground clutter.

 

So the way I see it is that rank 7 would contain iconic fourth gen fighters with missiles the performance of AIM-9Ls, R-73s, AIM-7E-2s, R-27Rs etc. 

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

2 hours ago, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

So the way I see it is that rank 7 would contain iconic fourth gen fighters with missiles the performance of AIM-9Ls, R-73s, AIM-7E-2s, R-27Rs etc.

R-73 seems a bit too powerfull compare to the poor AIM-9L , the R-60M is more closer in term of perf

 

2 hours ago, DarkSideSix said:

Well, i'm going mainly based on a post that was released awhile ago that predicted the release of a new tech tree (sweden), and the introduction of a new rank of aircraft. The former came true but the latter has yet to be fulfilled. I thought 2.01 was a good patch since it's the version 2 of War Thunder, which could potentially bring a variety of grand improvements. It's also possible for them to split the Rank VI and VII with the introduction of Radar Guided Missile capable aircraft, or generally more advanced such as MiG-23's Mig-27's, F-5E's, Mirage, etc... There's definitely still potential to see Rank VII aircraft this year, and it doesn't hav to be 4th gen just yet.

wt 2.0 is just a myth we might just get update 1.101 after 1.99

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

17 hours ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

R-73 seems a bit too powerfull compare to the poor AIM-9L , the R-60M is more closer in term of perf

 

 

It's just an example, I could have also mentioned the AIM-9M

[RanchSauce39 397]

On 07/04/2020 at 20:09, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

But doing that would place the F-4C and other mach 2 jets at rank 7. Some SARH missiles were underwhelming like the AIM-7C, D and possibly the E variant. For the Russians it's the R-3R although it has good range. All of them were easily prone to notching and ground clutter.

 

So the way I see it is that rank 7 would contain iconic fourth gen fighters with missiles the performance of AIM-9Ls, R-73s, AIM-7E-2s, R-27Rs etc. 

 

i would not place Aim7E2's anywhere in tier 7 category let alone being anywhere near the same level as R27R.  R27R contemporary is typically regarded as Aim7M.

 

Aim7E2's (  AIm7E4 are  literally E2's made to work with Tomcats AWG9 radar)  are basically just  modified Aim7E's with clipped  wings and changes made to fuse, to make them more maneuverable for close range combat at the cost of max range, and i believe they have a shorter lock on and launch time.  However these missiles are still subpar for low altitude combat against fighters because they are still are prone to ground clutter interference.

 

 

I would also point out, that you can't notch basic pulse radars ( or for select pulse doppler radars that can turn off Doppler filter and operate via reverting to pulse mode) However of course you don't need to notch pulse radars given you can just fly lowish altitudes to be masked among the ground clutter.

 

I would also pitch in that any jet that can currently carry flare can carry chaff due to the countermeasure system type thye would have used.  In fact chaff predates usage of flares. FOR eg the navy already had AN/ALE 29 Chaff system  before An/ALE40 ( combined flare and chaff countermeasure system)  was adopted AN/ALE38 Chaff system  existed for the F4's  before AN/ALE40. Chaff will mess up the missiles guidance, as well as cause visible interference on the radar. So even without Electronic jamming these early radar guided missiles can already have be countered at top tier besides evasive maneuvering or notching  against pulse doppler radars.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by RanchSauce39

[EpicBlitzkrieg87 8,350]

On 09/04/2020 at 00:48, RanchSauce39 said:

i would not place Aim7E2's anywhere in tier 7 category let alone being anywhere near the same level as R27R.  R27R contemporary is typically regarded as Aim7M.

 

 

They were stll the first Sparrows capable of dogfighting to a certain degree, but of course I didn't mean to compare them to the R-27Rs. 

 

Rest is nice information thank you

 

Side note I edited the plane's max speed at sea level

[Bringer_Of_War 901]

On 07/04/2020 at 17:09, EpicBlitzkrieg87 said:

 

But doing that would place the F-4C and other mach 2 jets at rank 7. Some SARH missiles were underwhelming like the AIM-7C, D and possibly the E variant. For the Russians it's the R-3R although it has good range. All of them were easily prone to notching and ground clutter.

 

So the way I see it is that rank 7 would contain iconic fourth gen fighters with missiles the performance of AIM-9Ls, R-73s, AIM-7E-2s, R-27Rs etc. 

This would cause a balancing problem 

 

This would allow phantoms to carry 8 missiles

Round this up for a team of let's say... 8 phantoms

 

That's 64 missiles that can be fired

It's gonna be really hard to justify giving Phantoms such a potent air to air loadout vs planes that can barely have 4 missiles for the best ones and 2 to none for the worst ones, which also have no countermeasures

It's gonna be a huge amount of spam , coming from planes that already dictate how they fight when facing other planes and just upping the BR would mean the Phantoms would have to face much much better jets with much better radar guided missiles and probably larger loadouts with BVR capabilities to boot

 

So I think it's for the better if Phantoms don't get Aim-7 series 

A possible fix would be to make the plane have a variable BR depending on what you have equipped but gaijin has made it clear that they don't want variable BRs 

 

Edited April 11, 2020 by _ArchangelAzrael