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Republic F-84F-51-GK Thunderstreak [Armée de l'Air]


French F-84F-51-GK Thunderstreak  

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  1. 1. Should the F-84F-51-GK Thunderstreak be added to the French tree?

    • Yes.
      46
    • No.
      9


Aircraft: Republic F-84F-51-GK Thunderstreak

 

Classification: Single-engine jet fighter-bomber

 

Visuals: 

 

Spoiler

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Description: In 1955, the Armée de l'Air began to receive a substantial number of Thunderstreaks, many of which were of the -51-GK block built by General Motors and utilizing the upgraded W-7 engine. This was right in time for the Suez Crisis of 1956 in which F-84Fs of the 1st & 3rd Escadre participated, also marking the only instance where Thunderstreaks of any nation were used in hostile combat.

 

These Thunderstreaks wore the classic yellow and black invasion stripe markings at the wing roots, and were predominantly used in support of French, British, and Israeli ground forces. The 1st Escadre initially went into action on October 29th, 1956 where they conducted assaults on Egyptian air bases, destroying 20 Soviet-supplied Il-28s despite the Egyptians’ best efforts to protect them. During the two-month duration of Thunderstreak operations in 1956, only one aircraft and its pilot was lost. 

 

After the Suez Crisis, French Thunderstreaks soldiered on for several years, with the first F-84Fs being phased out in 1957 and the last in 1966. French F-84Fs were replaced in service largely by the indigenous Mirage IIIE and Mirage 5F.

 

Fuel and Oil Data:

Fuel Grade: JP-4

Fuel Weight (internal): 

Internal Fuel Capacity: 577 gallons (900 additional gallons in 2x inboard wing drop tanks, and 460 additional gallons in 2x outboard wing drop tanks)

Oil Capacity: 4.5 gallons 

 

Engine Data:

Manufacturer: Wright

Designation: J65-W-7

Type: axial flow turbojet

Turbine: two-stage axial

Compressor: 13-stage axial

Combustor Type: annular

 

Power Data:

Maximum Power: 7800 lbf @ 8300 RPM (5 min limit)

Military Power: 7800 lbf @ 8300 RPM (30 min limit)

Normal Power: 6870 lbf @ 8000 RPM (continuous)

 

Dimensional Data: 

Length: 43.4 ft

Height: 15 ft

Wing Span: 33.6 ft

Wing Area: 325 sq. ft 

Wing Loading: 62.5  lbs/sq ft @ combat weight of 20313 lbs

 

Weight Data: 

Empty Weight: 13645 lbs

Design Weight: 18500 lbs

Combat Weight: 20313 lbs

Maximum Takeoff Weight: 27000 lbs

Maximum Landing Weight: 17337 lbs

 

General Performance Data:

Maximum Speed: 595 knots (1101.94 kph) @ SL*

Rate of Climb @ SL:  7400 ft/min (37.59 m/s)* 

Power-off, flaps-up Stall Speed: 131 knots (242.61 kph) @ 25226 lbs

Takeoff Distance (ground run @ SL): 5810 ft @ 25226 lbs (4480 ft w/ assisted takeoff)

Service Ceiling: 46350 ft (@ 18700 lbs & military power)

*Note: Speed with inboard fuel tank pylons equipped.

 

Structural Constraints: 

Maximum Load Factor: +9G @ design weight (+7.33G @ maximum takeoff weight)

 

NOTE: exact speed:altitude figures have limited accuracy (+/- 5 knots) due to SAC graph resolution in some instances.

Maximum Speeds (Max Power, Combat Weight of 18700 lbs, Fuel Tank Pylons Attached):

At SL: 595 knots (1101.94 kph)

At 10000 ft: ~584 knots (1081.57 kph)

At 20000 ft: ~569 knots (1053.79 kph)

At 30000 ft: ~547 knots (1013.04 kph)

At 35000 ft: 532 knots (985.26 kph)

At 40000 ft: ~527 knots (976.00 kph)

 

NOTE: exact speed:altitude figures have limited accuracy (+/- 5 knots) due to SAC graph resolution in some instances.

Maximum Speeds (Normal Power, Combat Weight of 18700 lbs, Fuel Tank Pylons Attached):

At SL: 580 knots (1074.16 kph)

At 10000 ft: ~572 knots (1059.34 kph)

At 20000 ft: ~560 knots (1037.12 kph)

At 30000 ft: ~540 knots (1000.08 kph)

At 40000 ft: ~516 knots (955.63 kph)

 

NOTE: exact climb:altitude figures have limited accuracy due to SAC graph resolution.

Rate of Climb (Max Power, Combat Weight of 18700 lbs, Fuel Tank Pylons Attached):

At SL: 7400 ft/min (37.59 m/s)

At 10000 ft: ~6000 ft/min (30.48 m/s)

At 20000 ft: ~4750 ft/min (24.13 m/s)

At 30000 ft: ~3500 ft/min (17.78 m/s)

At 40000 ft: ~1500 ft/min (7.62 m/s)

 

NOTE: exact climb:altitude figures have limited accuracy due to SAC graph resolution.

Rate of Climb (Normal Power, Combat Weight of 18700 lbs, Fuel Tank Pylons Attached):

At SL: ~5800 ft/min (29.46 m/s)

At 10000 ft: ~4800 ft/min (24.38 m/s)

At 20000 ft: ~3600 ft/min (18.29 m/s)

At 30000 ft: ~2500 ft/min (12.70 m/s)

At 40000 ft: ~1000 ft/min (5.08 m/s)

 

Time to Climb (Takeoff Weight of 25226 lbs @ Maximum Power):

SL to 40000 ft: 5.57 min 

SL to 50000 ft: 10.40 min

 

Armament: 

Guns: 6x .50 cal M3 machine guns (1800 rds total, 300 RPG)

Maximum Bomb Capacity: 6000 lbs

Rockets*: 

  • 24x 5” HVARs mounted under wings

Bombs*: 

  • 2x 2000 lb bombs (box fin or conical fin types)
  • 4x 1000 lb bombs (box fin or conical fin types)
  • 4x 750 lb bombs (“new series”)
  • 4x 500 lb bombs (box fin or conical fin types)
  • 4x 250 lb bombs (box fin or conical fin types)

*Note: Listed ordnance types are for the US-spec F-84F-50 and subsequent types. It is possible that French-service F-84F-51s might have used French-specific ordnance.

 

Sources:

[1] Standard Aircraft Characteristics F-84F Thunderstreak Republic (W-7 Engine), 2 September 1958

[2] Republic F-84F Thunderstreak and RF-84F Thunderflash in European Air Forces by Paul A. Jackson, Warpaint Series No.1, Alan W. Hall Publications, 1976

[3] The Republic F-84F Thunderstreak by Ray Wagner, Profile Publications Number 95

[4] Republic F/RF-84F Thunderstreak/Thunderflash in USAF/BAF/R Nor AF/R Neth AF/Luft/French AF/TAF/CNAF & RDAF Service by Ernest R. McDowell, Aircam Aviation Series No.14, Osprey Publications, ISBN: 86045-016-0

 

Edited by Aquilachrysaetos
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  • Senior Suggestion Moderator

Open for discussion. :salute:

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Well, you know how I feel about the Thunderstreak, and by this point, I don't care how it gets into the game anymore as long as US eventually gets one as well. Big +1 from me!

 

Edit: I think you mean to say 24x 5" HVARs, FFARs are 2.75" rockets

Edited by mrparty1
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Here are some additional armament pictures with HVARs :

Spoiler

1796614823_TinyTim.jpg.ea1079af8876babc5

1812737883_8xHVAR4.jpg.fb26df307ab6c7ff3

519811332_8xHVAR3.jpg.95ca2b105c677841a0

1421912297_8xHVAR2.jpg.fe73b7efb51da8a59

578084256_8xHVAR1.jpg.7e0df4706692abcc33

 

Edited by Cedjoe
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I looked up  F84F, i don't know if these are the specific 51-GK variant but i assume they all can use similar loadouts.

 

Seems like the french variant had HVAR, like its US counterpart

 

Spoiler

normal_js1024_02_60_-F84F-9CA-face795x58

normal_js1024_02_61_--F84F-9CA-travers79

 

 

And here's one with a bomb (also animal i can't name because of integrated censorship decal)

Spoiler

1-PA-1.jpg

 

 

Edited by nxdefiant001

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6 hours ago, mrparty1 said:

Well, you know how I feel about the Thunderstreak, and by this point, I don't care how it gets into the game anymore as long as US eventually gets one as well. Big +1 from me!

 

Edit: I think you mean to say 24x 5" HVARs, FFARs are 2.75" rockets

 

Hah, yes I do. Will fix.

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-1 don't need it, first need the Mystere IV

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13 hours ago, Trotrodor said:

-1 don't need it, first need the Mystere IV

You understand that a suggestion isn't saying that the aircraft needs to be added before all else right? Would your opinion change if the Mystere IV was already in the game?

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1 hour ago, mrparty1 said:

You understand that a suggestion isn't saying that the aircraft needs to be added before all else right? Would your opinion change if the Mystere IV was already in the game?

yeah sure, but one aircraft always comes despite another, for me france really really really need the Mystere IV, basically the most iconic french aircraft of the era (btw being the same as the f84f), but yeah still a big big shame its not in the game yet ...

 

But personnally and like many other, I think france has enough US copypaste, the only ones I'm really looking forwards or the one that trully played a big role in french history (F8FN Crusader for example).

 

And the F84F is definetly not one of them (As the Mystere IV was around at that time, and stoll the fame big time).

Edited by Trotrodor
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2 hours ago, Trotrodor said:

And the F84F is definetly not one of them

But then, as the presentation tells us, French F-84Fs were the only ones to ever be engaged. Which makes France the most significant user of this plane (alongside the US which designed it of course).

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2 hours ago, Trotrodor said:

But personnally and like many other, I think france has enough US copypaste, the only ones I'm really looking forwards or the one that trully played a big role in french history (F8FN Crusader for example).

 

And the F84F is definetly not one of them (As the Mystere IV was around at that time, and stoll the fame big time).

 

Except you're wrong about that as you've clearly not read the suggestion. 

 

French F-84Fs served alongside Mystere IVAs in the Suez Crisis, a conflict France participated heavily in. France is also the only NATO operator to use Thunderstreaks in hostile combat, which is impressive considering the dozen or so countries the F-84F served with outside the US.

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7 hours ago, FouManchou said:

But then, as the presentation tells us, French F-84Fs were the only ones to ever be engaged. Which makes France the most significant user of this plane (alongside the US which designed it of course).

 

6 hours ago, Aquilachrysaetos said:

 

Except you're wrong about that as you've clearly not read the suggestion. 

 

French F-84Fs served alongside Mystere IVAs in the Suez Crisis, a conflict France participated heavily in. France is also the only NATO operator to use Thunderstreaks in hostile combat, which is impressive considering the dozen or so countries the F-84F served with outside the US.

 

 

Yes I know, I have reed it, France was a significant user of the F84F, it was an important part of the F84F history ...

 

But not inversly !!

As we are discussing the introduction of the F84F in the french tech tree, the question is more of : was it significant in the french history (and not in the F84F history, can you see the twist)

 

And at that time period, france had a much much much more relevant plane: in the Mystere IV !!

 

So its definetly a -1 for me, until the Mystere IV is added into the french tech tree, and until france is competitive at top tier, than why not

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Mystere 4a has already been send for consideration z while ago afaik if it is planned then he will come before this one if not then this one might come first that's all 

 

That's a +1 for me

Edited by Nicolaser
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33 minutes ago, Nicolaser said:

Mystere 4a has already been send for consideration z while ago afaik if it is planned then he will come before this one if not then this one might come first that's all 

 

That's a +1 for me

True, and they talked about the Mystère IV at the same time as the Swift in a Q&A more than a year ago, and the Swift came last year so imo the Mystère IV is probably being worked on, at least I hope so.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 months later...

For the only nation to use them in combat not to get them would be a travesty. Although indigenous French designs are obviously more important, we do need this in game, and I’d like to see it come sooner rather than later. To make developing the plane more efficient and avoid the cries of “What about the US?”, the devs could even add them to multiple nations at once, just like the F-104s and Razorback P-47s.

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Definitely a +1 for me. Would be a much more logical plane to have between the F-84 and the

F-86K. Also logical to have it from a historical point of view given France's use of it in conflict. And sure, you can say what you want about more original French designs, but I think we can use any extra plane in the tree rn. 

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