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Should the Praga M53/59 be added?  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. Should this vehicle be added? And to what tree?

    • Yes, but only if a new tree containing Czechoslovakia is added (independent CS tree, Warsaw Pact, etc)
      34
    • Yes, as a researchable vehicle in the USSR tree
      13
    • Yes, as a premium or event vehicle in the USSR tree
      4
    • No, it shouldn't be added
      0
  2. 2. At what BR?

    • 6.0 or lower
      22
    • 6.3
      12
    • 6.7
      11
    • 7.0
      5
    • 7.3
      1
    • 7.7 or higher
      0
    • I said no
      0


Praga PLDvK vz. 53/59

 

QiF7MKK.jpg

 

In short: a cold war Czechoslovak SPAAG, made famous for its use in the Yugoslav Wars.

 

 

Historical background

 

In 1941 the Kriegsmarine started development on a new 30x210mm Anti-Aircraft cannon, intended for use in Type XXI submarines. This weapon, designated as 3cm MK 303 Flak, began testing in 1944. The cannon was belt-fed and had a fire rate of 400 rpm.  222 units had been produced in Brno by March 1945, but the gun never entered service with the Kriegsmarine.

 

After the war the Czechoslovak military resumed work on the cannon. It finally began mass production in 1953, now with an improved RoF of 450 to 500 rpm and designated as M53. Two were mounted on the PLDvK vz.53 towed AA gun, fed by 10 round magazines. In the late 50s the turret was adapted for use in a self propelled chassis. The new vehicle would be based on the Praga V3S 6x6 truck, with a new armored cabin and a turret with twin M53 cannons on the back. The vehicle was designated internally as Praga PLDvK vz. 53/59, but came to be known internationally as the M53/59 Praga.

 

The M53/59 entered service with the Czechoslovak Army in the late 50s and was in use throughout the Cold War. It was retired from service in the Czech Republic in 2003, but remains in reserve in Slovakia. The vehicle was ordered by Yugoslavia in 1969, who had up to 789 M53/59 by the 80s. The Praga saw service throughout the Yugoslav Wars, where it proved effective against light and unarmored targets despite its obsolescence against aircraft. Nowadays it remains in service with the armies of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Serbia. The M53/59 has also been sold to Egypt and Libya, where they remain in service.

 

 

Technical details:

 

The M53/59 is based on the Praga V3S truck. It has a 6x6 drivetrain and a Tatra T-912-2 engine (110 hp at 2.200rpm). The transmission has four forward and two reverse gears. A top speed of 60 Km/h can be reached.  A crew of four (driver, gunner, two loaders) mans the vehicle. The cabin has 10 mm of all-around steel armor.

 

The turret is based on the PLDvK vz.53 towed AA gun, but uses 50 round magazines instead of 10 round clips. Between 600 and 800 shells can be carried internally. It has a 360º powered traverse and an elevation of -10º to +85º. The gunner sits on an armored basket next to the guns, while the two loaders remain inside the cabin until reloading is necessary. The vehicle has no radar; it’s aimed solely through optical sights, which makes it effective only in daytime and clear weather. 

 

Additionally, the entire turret assembly can be lowered with a ramp and used on the ground.

 

Length

6.92 m

Width

2.35 m

Height (without magazines)

2.59 m (2.95 w/ magazines)

Combat weight

10,300 Kg

Engine

Tatra T-912-2 (6-cylinder air cooled diesel)

Power 

110 hp at 2.200 rpm

Transmission

6x6 drive; 4 forward and 2 reverse gears

Maximum speed

60 Km/h

Range

500 Km

Fuel capacity

120 l

Ground clearance

0.4 m

Vertical obstacle

0.46 m

Trench

0.69 m

Gradient

60%

Lateral inclination

30%

Fording depth

0.8 m

 

 

The M53 fires a 30x210 cartridge (the largest 30mm round to ever see service) from a 2370 mm long barrel. On the M53/59 the cannons are fed by 50 round magazines. Each cannon has a rate of fire of between 450 and 500 rounds per second. Between 600 and 800 rounds were carried. 

 

Three types of rounds were used: HEI-T, API-T, and training rounds. The API-T is reported to be able to penetrate 65 mm of RHA at 90º/200m. The War Thunder Penetration Calculator gives it a value of 72 mm at 90º/0m.

 

Yugoslav penetration table:

 

Spoiler

NeJc8Th.jpg

 

Type

HEI-T

API-T

Czechoslovak designation

JFSv

JPZSv

Projectile mass (g)

435

Propellant mass (g)

195

Propellant type

nctp 3x1,25/3,5-KFL propellant powder

Explosive mass (g)

36.5

0

Explosive type

A-IX-2

-N/A-

Maximum chamber pressure

3200 Kg/cm^2

Muzzle velocity (m/s)

997

Self destruction distance (m)

6600

-N/A-  (No time fuze)

Tracer burning time (s)

4 s

 

 

Pictures

 

Spoiler

bAaU7HO.jpg

The PLDvK vz.53 towed AA gun, the basis of the turret of the M53/59

 

lGv9Xrp.jpg

A Praga V3S, the basis of the M53/59.

 

pDuG8Fk.jpg

A blueprint

 

ospYZ72.jpg

 

SELDDiZ.jpg

 

 

 

kzEfMwW.jpg

 

zNQnY1V.jpg

An M53/59 towing the PLDvK vz.53 

 

bqUv3sr.jpg

 

http://oklop2.tripod.com/praga/m53-7.JPG http://oklop2.tripod.com/praga/m53-11.JPG

 

http://oklop2.tripod.com/praga/m53-8.JPG

 

http://oklop2.tripod.com/praga/m53-22.jpg

http://oklop2.tripod.com/praga/m53-23.jpg

Two examples of SFRY camouflages.

 

 

A list of some surviving vehicles with pictures: http://www.massimocorner.com/afv/Surviving_Praga_Jesterka.pdf

 

Video

 

An old documentary on the Praga. Shows a few factory images, the turret being lowered from the bed (8:43), and the reloading cycle (18:35):

Spoiler

 

 

 

Where and why should it be added?

 

Personally, I think that the best place to add this vehicle would be a tree containing Czechoslovakia, be it an independent CS tree, a Warsaw Pact tree or an Eastern Europe tree. Another option is to add it to the USSR tree to cover the SPAAG gap between 4.7 and 7.7 (CS was a Warsaw Pact member, so it's a simillar case to the Rooikat on the UK tree). These options aren't mutually exclusive, since it can be added to the USSR TT soon-ish and removed if/when a Czechoslovak tree is added. It can also be added to a Yugoslav or Arab tree if those were to be added.

 

A BR of arround 7.0 would be my recommendation.

 

 

Sources

 

https://old.weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/EE03%20-%20M53/59.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20070930084134/http://www.eldon.sk/historia/m53_59_list.html

http://oklop2.tripod.com/praga/m53.htm

http://www.znaci.net/00003/464.pdf (page 254)

http://www.vojska.net/eng/armed-forces/equipment/spaa/praga/

 

 

Ammo sources:

https://www.wk2ammo.com/archive/index.php/t-3091.html

http://balkannovoteh.co.rs/en/?page_id=894

Edited by PlanyKaanere
Added links to tree suggestions
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  • Suggestion Moderator

Open for discussion.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...
  • 1 year later...
  • 3 months later...

Armour penetration table for M53/59 30mm gun (taken from a Yugoslav manual). It penetrates about 65 mm at 90º/200m

 

NeJc8Th.jpg

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  • 2 months later...
10 hours ago, Deathmisser said:

But why it has nothing to do with them ? :dntknw:

Likely due to Czechoslovakia being a satellite state of the Soviet Union at one point. Gaijin also probably wanted a vehicle to bridge the gap between the BTR-RD and ZSU-57-2, but there are Russian-built alternatives like the MT-LB 6MB3 or MT-LB 6MB4.

Spoiler

r/Warthunder - Gaijin please MT-LB 6MB3. MT-LB with 23 mm GSh-23

Gaijin please MT-LB 6MB4 and 6MB5. Anti-aircraft MT-LB with 2 30mm  autocannons : r/Warthunder

(The vehicle pictured above is the MT-LB 6MB5. The 6MB4 is just a 6MB5 without the AA missiles. I anyone has an actual picture of the 6MB4, please let me know.)

 

Edited by DMYEugen
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23 minutes ago, Deathmisser said:

What BR would this thing be at ? 4.7 ?

6.0 to 6.3 imo. It has similar firepower to Kugelblitz

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4 hours ago, DMYEugen said:

Likely due to Czechoslovakia being a satellite state of the Soviet Union at one point. Gaijin also probably wanted a vehicle to bridge the gap between the BTR-RD and ZSU-57-2, but there are Russian-built alternatives like the MT-LB 6MB3 or MT-LB 6MB4.

Reveal hidden contents

 

The zsu-23-4m2 "Afgan" would have also been a nice gap filler.ary2ugj91y761.jpg.5970e606ec9f64693080f3

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1 hour ago, Major_Shaker said:

This is madness. USSR has enough SPAAs and enough vehicles to play. This deserved to be under its own tech tree.

I’ve got a bad feeling that Czechoslovakian vehicles are going to be the “sub-tree” of the USSR sadly. At least the vehicles that were built/used post-WWII. Not a normal format sub-tree like SA or Finland, but scattered vehicles to fill BR gaps. Many of them are probably going to be event vehicles like the T-72M2 Moderna. 
:crysnail:

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22 minutes ago, Yontzee said:

I’ve got a bad feeling that Czechoslovakian vehicles are going to be the “sub-tree” of the USSR sadly. At least the vehicles that were built/used post-WWII. Not a normal format sub-tree like SA or Finland, but scattered vehicles to fill BR gaps. Many of them are probably going to be event vehicles like the T-72M2 Moderna. 
:crysnail:

That would be absolutely awful. Ussr not only doesn't really need a sub tree but also has options that would make much more sense (my favorite being Cuba).

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