swedish op planes

[MrBader 516]

Hi,

When do you guys think that the FM's on some of these planes will be fixed? The twin boom ones and that 2 engine B1B or whatever its called.

 

Jesus they're outahand.

I tried to join the party, but I have to fly the swede reserves and those are borderline unflyable with manual controls in ab. 

[etuhoha 66]

Yes, they are overboosted, because Gaijin wants to sell Swedish premiums while they are hot and pay for the development. However these planes are not OP. They may be perceived as such because they fit the suicidal point-and-click style, which majority of the player base employs, slightly better - big guns, sturdy DM. If approached cautiously you can strike at their weaker sides - subpar energy retention, average top speed, climb rate and wobbly rudder controls. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by etuhoha

[MrBader 516]

Hi,

Well I use a stick full controls so I can loop and turn pretty well, and that 2 engine thing easily out looped my d28. For 4 or 5 loops. So don't know what to tell ya, but thx for responding.

[etuhoha 66]

Well, for starters you can tell us why are you complaining after

 

1) taking a knife to a gun fight (stick vs mouse/keyboards)

2) trying to win by looping in a Thunderbolt

 

[anyuser 5,136]

15 minutes ago, MrBader said:

Hi,

Well I use a stick full controls so I can loop and turn pretty well, and that 2 engine thing easily out looped my d28. For 4 or 5 loops. So don't know what to tell ya, but thx for responding.

Planes with big flaps on the tail usually loop very good in AB with boosted controls. And the B18 happends to be a twin fin aircraft with very big control surfaces at the tail...

While it can out dogfight some heavy fighters. And when it gets slow with full flaps it can do a lot of good things. Even more because of 2 very strong engines.

 

But the P47D is still one of the most undertired plane in AB (many others are US planes too...) that can outspeed, outdive and outclimb the B18 (last one when at speed). So why didn't you boom and zoomed him to death?
Why do you have to throw yourself in fist fight situation, while your weapon is a rifle build for sniper duels?

 

Btw, while the B18 are very good planes, the other swedish planes are not good. They got guns and thats it. With most people comitting into headons or flying with blinders as jucy clay pidgions...

[Lexing_ 241]

Ok, as others have said, the P-47D-28 is one of the, if not the single most overpowered aircraft in the game. It doesn't have to engage with anyone that is at an advantage and kills anything that you engage assuming you picked up energy. However the B18 and T18 are definitely not op, they excel at suicide headons which is the reason so many players pick them up, but I never saw any merit to using them over my Yak 2 which is both faster, more maneuverable, and a more capable fighter killer. Of course, their BR is still relatively low, but just look at what they did to the J21As, raising BRs all the way up to 3.7. Expect the BRs on the B/T18 move up 0.3 or so in a bit. 

 

Regarding full stick controls, no. Full controls will give you very good turning performance if you have perfected it, and only if you perfected it. KBM is still the best way to turn as it allows you to maintain situational awareness while still maneuvering as tightly as possible. A Thunderbolt shouldn't ever be in a situation where it has to turn, otherwise you did something wrong. What the Thunderbolt does excel in is getting guns on target quickly and dispatching the opponent as fast as possible. This is what you should abuse every single time when engaging an opponent by Boom n Zooming and minimizing turning.

[MrBader 516]

Hi,

Guys I have no problem with stick in ab. Been flying that way since 2014. Mkb don't cut it for me. Wayyyytoo easy. 

 

If y'all don't see that the FM's of the new guys are fudged...well that's OK also.

 

Also I know the p47. But in this case, I initially thought the B1b or whatever its called, was a bomber. When he started dogfighting I said OK buddy, eat lead. Was surprising that this thing would eat a p38 for lunch. And I'm guessing the real one did not fly this way. But you're the experts:-) 

[GTVADeimos 50]

To give an idea of how poor a turn the P47 had, a KI-43 or Zeros wing loading was in the region of 110-120 kg per m2, a Spitfire V was around 130kg (shows how bad it has been gimped in WT), a KI-61/Bf-109F was around 175kg, a J21 around 185 kg and the P47 around 210kg.

 

It is only in WT that a P47 pilot would contemplate turn fighting even a J21 as it and in general all American fighters were vastly overweight giving them ridiculously high wing loads do deal with.

 

J21s are not OP they are average for everything bar firepower but they should still out handle a P47 with some ease. P47s should be flown like a jet, wide turns maintaining speed and energy not like a Zero.

 

 

[MrBader 516]

Hi,

The two engine B18 is the fight I was speaking of. 

And everyone knows the twin boom guys were op and still are a bit at 3.7.

 

I know how to fly a p47. But thx for the advice.

[GTVADeimos 50]

1 hour ago, MrBader said:

Hi,

Guys I have no problem with stick in ab. Been flying that way since 2014. Mkb don't cut it for me. Wayyyytoo easy. 

 

If y'all don't see that the FM's of the new guys are fudged...well that's OK also.

 

Also I know the p47. But in this case, I initially thought the B1b or whatever its called, was a bomber. When he started dogfighting I said OK buddy, eat lead. Was surprising that this thing would eat a p38 for lunch. And I'm guessing the real one did not fly this way. But you're the experts:-) 

 

If you have flown P38s in WT since 2014 you should be well used to being regularly out turned by bombers never mind single engine fighters. P38s are frankly awful and will not have a chance of shaking of even a humble SB2M if the pilot wants to be aggressive never mind something like a B7A2. The only thing that saves many fighters is bomber pilots not willing to be aggressive or being unaware of their aircraft's abilities. Specific to the B18 it has a lower wing loading than a P47 and a significantly lower wing loading than a P38 which has a frankly awful 260kg per m2 v the B18s roughly 200kg per m2. That is not so far away from the Gross Weight wing loadings of a Mosquito FB VI which in the real world could hold its own v 190s (but nerfed hard in WT).

[GTVADeimos 50]

16 minutes ago, MrBader said:

Hi,

The two engine B18 is the fight I was speaking of. 

And everyone knows the twin boom guys were op and still are a bit at 3.7.

 

I know how to fly a p47. But thx for the advice.

 Not sure who the everyone is that knows the J21 was Op. As someone else mentioned here it has pretty average turn, stability and climb with above average energy retention for zoom climbs and excellent firepower. If you want to head on one feel free although the P47 is outgunned in that and trying to dogfight one in anything American is not a good idea.

[Kosher_Locust 120]

The B18 hasn't been much different to me than a ME-110, A-20, or PBJ. A little better handling but way less on firepower.  The J22A/B is a competent low tier fighter, similar to a P-43 or low tier F6F.  The J-21/A-21 are the ones people talk about the most; they have rapid fire guns and cannons but are slow, lose energy quick, and are lightly armored.  I could swear the two J's were BR 3.3 and the A was 3.7 but regardless they're all 3.7 now.  They can handle their own against BR 3.3 and down, but up....well once I tried the J21RA jet in a match ending up at a BR of 6.3 and after it was shot down I did get F-80 with a J-21 but it wasn't easy.

 

Overall the only way I can see a player getting an advantage with the Swedes is to use on J-21 and lower tier everything, maybe getting into a 3.3 BR. 

[Lexing_ 241]

3 hours ago, sfpeter68 said:

The B18 hasn't been much different to me than a ME-110, A-20, or PBJ. A little better handling but way less on firepower.  The J22A/B is a competent low tier fighter, similar to a P-43 or low tier F6F.  The J-21/A-21 are the ones people talk about the most; they have rapid fire guns and cannons but are slow, lose energy quick, and are lightly armored.  I could swear the two J's were BR 3.3 and the A was 3.7 but regardless they're all 3.7 now.  They can handle their own against BR 3.3 and down, but up....well once I tried the J21RA jet in a match ending up at a BR of 6.3 and after it was shot down I did get F-80 with a J-21 but it wasn't easy.

 

Overall the only way I can see a player getting an advantage with the Swedes is to use on J-21 and lower tier everything, maybe getting into a 3.3 BR. 

The J21 does get smoked by the P47D though, like I said before the P-47D-28 was akin to cheating back when it was at 3.3. It got to a point where I would get consistent downtiers if I downtiered a p47 to 3.0. I think the enemy PBYs who were subject to this didn't have a lot of fun... xDD

[Maj_Fox@psn 521]

Saw a few J21A-1 planes in a game while I was flying hight, (5,000m).

 

Tries to bate them in to stalling but they just keep climbing. When they get get to the same alt they can just loop like they just dived not climbed. Energy retention is excellent.

 

If the FM is over the top then I'll avoid them till then. If not, I'm in trouble.

 

Cheers

[Lexing_ 241]

11 hours ago, *Maj_Fox said:

Saw a few J21A-1 planes in a game while I was flying hight, (5,000m).

 

Tries to bate them in to stalling but they just keep climbing. When they get get to the same alt they can just loop like they just dived not climbed. Energy retention is excellent.

 

If the FM is over the top then I'll avoid them till then. If not, I'm in trouble.

 

Cheers

Honestly, those things arent difficult to outturn, it just comes down to not letting them abuse their roll rate. Regarding loops, they aren't the best loopers at 3.7 and if you're flying something like a P-47 you can bait them to 7000m and fight them there.

[Maj_Fox@psn 521]

14 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

Honestly, those things arent difficult to outturn, it just comes down to not letting them abuse their roll rate. Regarding loops, they aren't the best loopers at 3.7 and if you're flying something like a P-47 you can bait them to 7000m and fight them there.

 

I was in the Brit premium Mustang.

 

Cheers

[Lexing_ 241]

On 27/05/2020 at 03:41, *Maj_Fox said:

 

I was in the Brit premium Mustang.

 

Cheers

yeah, honestly, good luck outturning anything in that, it loses energy like crazy.

[anyuser 5,136]

And the engine is simply bad at higher altitude.

Even at 5km it will loose power, while the J-21 will have more or less full power...

 

Allison without high alt super (or turbo?) charger tries to bait a DB60X with such a charger at 5000m.

Best idea ever...

What could possibly go wrong.

Edited May 28, 2020 by anyuser

[Lexing_ 241]

1 hour ago, anyuser said:

And the engine is simply bad at higher altitude.

Even at 5km it will loose power, while the J-21 will have more or less full power...

 

Allison without high alt super (or turbo?) charger tries to bait a DB60X with such a charger at 5000m.

Best idea ever...

What could possibly go wrong.

I believe the DB605A (on the J21) doesn't have a turbosupercharger but has a single-stage mechanical supercharger, so it performs decently up till 6000m, where the American Thunderbolts begin to outpace it.

 

In retrospect I think the Thunderbolt has a water-injection system that boosts horsepower above 5000m

[Maj_Fox@psn 521]

I think I need to re-think how I play the Mustang.

 

Using it similar to the US P-51s but they seem to have better performance therefore, better results.

 

Thanks for feedback.

[anyuser 5,136]

The P 51D got an Merlin like the spitfire with an aiditional high altitude whatever charger.

All Cannonstangs and the P 51A got the Allison like the P-40 without high altitude performance.

 

All are build for being Pursiut fighters (high speed), but they are very different because of the engine.

 

18 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

I believe the DB605A (on the J21) doesn't have a turbosupercharger but has a single-stage mechanical supercharger, so it performs decently up till 6000m, where the American Thunderbolts begin to outpace it.

 

In retrospect I think the Thunderbolt has a water-injection system that boosts horsepower above 5000m

Right, I mixed that up.

The DB gets a - lets call it adaptive - charger, that allows to work the engine up to nearly 6000m with full power.

The single stage charger of the Allison has lost a lot of its power at 4500m.

[Lexing_ 241]

49 minutes ago, anyuser said:

The P 51D got an Merlin like the spitfire with an aiditional high altitude whatever charger.

All Cannonstangs and the P 51A got the Allison like the P-40 without high altitude performance.

 

All are build for being Pursiut fighters (high speed), but they are very different because of the engine.

 

Right, I mixed that up.

The DB gets a - lets call it adaptive - charger, that allows to work the engine up to nearly 6000m with full power.

The single stage charger of the Allison has lost a lot of its power at 4500m.

Definitely, however I think the earlier mustangs are much more competitive because they are excellent at higher speeds, with good roll, initial turn, and energy retention. However the Ds for some reason have far, far worse high speed handling, lacking the snappy initial roll and turn of the cannonstang, hence why I think they are among the worst planes in the game.

[anyuser 5,136]

D-30 and H-5 are able to eat anything at their BR alive.

D-5 is a different story...

 

But they have to be used more like jets then anything else.

[Lexing_ 241]

8 hours ago, anyuser said:

D-30 and H-5 are able to eat anything at their BR alive.

D-5 is a different story...

 

But they have to be used more like jets then anything else.

Again, that is very true. However, the D-30 gets beaten at its own game by 190 D-9s. The D-9 climbs faster, rolls faster, and has a better initial turn than the D-30. However I am perpetually biased against the D-30 in general so take this with a grain of salt.

[VT_88 342]

they still are OP at 3.7

 

need to move to 4.3