Sherman IB & III & VC: The Swedish Evaluation Shermans

[Arne7 72]

(Left: Sherman IB (10,5 cm Sherman), Right: Sherman VC (Firefly), Source: Westerlund/Försvarsstabens pressavdelning)

 

By 1945, the war was over, Victory in Europe then Victory in Pacific (Asia) months later. Sweden had its own experience with armoured vehicles, but none grizzled or battle-hardened as the Americans, British, German, and Russians. In 1946 and 1947, the Swedish army purchased four Shermans from British surplus, and those Shermans were hand-picked and never were the same. They bought following:

* Sherman III (M4A2)

* Sherman IVB (M4A3 with 10,5 cm howitzer, sic)

* Sherman V (M4A4, completely stripped off of any armaments)

* Sherman VC (M4A4 Firefly, this one had a Chrysler engine)

 

For a unknown period starting early as the purchases, the Swedish used the Shermans in numerous field trails and performance trails under field-like conditions. Numerous reports were written about the trails and the performance. Not much else is known about the Shermans in Swedish possession, they may been become demoted to shooting range targets.

 

The three Shermans, III, IVB, and VC are underrated and rather forgotten bricks towards to the Swedish armoured vehicles as we I know it. Giving the Swedes impression of how the others designed their tanks and what design considerations that they needed to take into mind when picking a tank fit for the rather diverse field conditions of the north.

 

Since the others have Sherman tanks, and Sweden did have legally (read, not captures) possessed and operated Sherman tanks, to limited extend as they were for study and evaluation purposes only. Adding them would add a familiar face to the Swedish tree and perhaps give more opportunities to a more diverse playstyle when playing as Sweden, fill some gaps in the ratings and tree itself.

 

Pictures & Livery

Spoiler

Photos of Sherman IVB (10,5 cm Sherman), marked as IV, from a Swedish winter exercise sometime after 1947(?)

(Source: Westerlund/Försvarsstabens pressavdelning)

 

Keep in mind that the characteristics below are copy-and-pastes of original characteristics, but are modified if sources say otherwise.

Characteristics (Sherman III)

Spoiler

General

- Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander)

 

Powerplant: General Motors 6046 (375 hp)

Performance:

- Max speed: 32 km/h

 

Armament:

- Primary: 1x 75 mm M3 cannon

- Secondary: 1x 7,62 mm Browning M1919

 

Characteristics (Sherman IVB)

Spoiler

General

- Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander)

 

Powerplant: Ford GAA V-8 petrol engine (450 or 500 hp)

Performance:

- Max speed: 41 km/h

 

Armament:

- Primary: 1x 105 mm M4 howitzer

- Secondary: 1x 7,62 mm Browning M1919

 

Characteristics (Sherman VC)

Spoiler

General

- Crew: 4 (Driver, Gunner, Loader, Commander)

 

Powerplant: Chrysler A57 (370 hp)

Performance:

- Max speed: 32 km/h

 

Armament:

- Primary: 1x 76.2 mm QF-17 Pounder

- Secondary: 1x 7,62 mm Browning M1919

 

Sources:

Primary:

(Swedish, report) Ainsp/C no 23:8 15/3 1948 - Sten Koch, Archival reference: SE/KrA/0363/005:H/F I/3 (Online PDF mirror provided at: http://tanks.mod16.org/pdf/Sherman Askersund 1948.pdf)

 

Secondary:

(English, blog) http://tanks.mod16.org/2016/09/30/swedish-impressions-of-the-sherman/

(English, blog) http://tanks.mod16.org/2016/10/01/swedish-impressions-of-the-sherman-part-2/

(English, book) The Encyclopedia of Weapons of World War II, Chris Bishop, MetroBooks, New York 1998, ISBN: 1-58663-762-2 (For characteristics)

(English) https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ (For characteristics)

Edited June 5, 2021 by Arne7
Clear up designation confusion.

[Miki_Hoshii 2,449]

Open for discussion.

[qpranger 1,887]

Boring, we have enough Sherman clones already.

[Sternjaeger84 1,076]

If it could fill those pathetic holes in the low tiers.. it's ok for me.

 

And as we have the T-34 mod 43 in the Chinese 3 (as its never known service in PLA), I'll not be very surprised to see one or two in the Swedish tree.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Sternjager

[Milocat 4,857]

I wouldn't mind seeing one or two of these as cheap premiums or something.

[Sternjaeger84 1,076]

Just now, Milocat said:

I wouldn't mind seeing one or two of these as cheap premiums or something.

Same.

[Wolf_89 2,525]

Maybe one of them as a Prem.

But for the Tech tree. I'd rather see them adding Danish/Norwegian/Finnish vehicles.

Instead of vehicles Sweden never used/made/captured/lend lease.

[Solarmod 1,204]

Sure, maybe the Firefly as a premium, and the other two as tree? +1

[Stridswombat 1,089]

I'm not so keen on adding vehicles that weren't used in service to fill gaps that could very well be filled by unique vehicles. As it stands all of these vehicles have Swedish or otherwise unique vehicles that can fill the same BR spot in the tree.

[Jarms 1,558]

No more Sherman’s please. The Italians getting them was a nail in the coffin for me. It just ruins RB and SB lineups. Making their match making effectively mixed battles. 

[Lonewold 415]

Sorry but I'd radther have the Panther and the Tiger 2p that were used in trials or actual swedish or nordic designs, possibly finnish vehicles. 

[NecroReaper 408]

As long as they're not added to SB in any way that screws up the gameplay there...

[eleks12 1,079]

+1 

[Kebabboy2 21]

we Don't need any more Shermans in the game

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

-1 no more Shermans please

[Solarmod 1,204]

Honestly I would feel like this would've been better received if Italy didn't get a ton of Shermans for some ungodly reason.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

On 31/05/2020 at 00:27, Solarmod said:

Honestly I would feel like this would've been better received if Italy didn't get a ton of Shermans for some ungodly reason.

It was already too many Shermans before Italy got them.

Besides i'm grinding trough Sweden and don't want another Sherman Barrier to go trough

[Solarmod 1,204]

5 hours ago, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

It was already too many Shermans before Italy got them.

Besides i'm grinding trough Sweden and don't want another Sherman Barrier to go trough

I get where you're coming from, but I would've preferred just one Sherman as an event vehicle, or a limited premium, cause "Everyone needs a Sherman."

 

I still hope they remove the Italian Shermans >>

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

14 hours ago, Solarmod said:

I get where you're coming from, but I would've preferred just one Sherman as an event vehicle, or a limited premium, cause "Everyone needs a Sherman."

 

I still hope they remove the Italian Shermans >>

"Everyone needs a Sherman" meme isn't even that funny, also Gaijin will not remove those Italian Shermans

Edited June 2, 2020 by Cpt_Jack_Irons

[LancePosting 31]

can you don't? it already feels like half the vehicles in warthunder are shermans

[Rieskaruisku 506]

Big no for turning this fine game into Sherman Thunder. -1

[stuka2689 314]

Finally swedish sherman. Maybe Only 1 for premium(for easy grinding)but tech tree? No.

Edited June 7, 2020 by police2689
.

[blockhaj 3,560]

The Shermans never serviced with the Swedish army. If u add the Shermans then u might as well add the Swedish Tiger II, Panther, Stug III and Comet as they will be 10x more useful.

[eleks12 1,079]

42 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

The Shermans never serviced with the Swedish army. If u add the Shermans then u might as well add the Swedish Tiger II, Panther, Stug III and Comet as they will be 10x more useful.

 

I would not mind to see these vehicles in game also!

 

[mixu83 209]

1 hour ago, blockhaj said:

The Shermans never serviced with the Swedish army. If u add the Shermans then u might as well add the Swedish Tiger II, Panther, Stug III and Comet as they will be 10x more useful.

 

Maybe a Finnish Comet as a premium? Finnish army bought 40 of them in 60's together with Charioteers. Would make more sense than one-off test vehicles.