CL Luigi Cadorna (Condottieri 2nd Group)

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

The Luigi Cadorna was the lead ship of the second series of the Condottieri "class" of light cruiser.  Like with their destroyers Italian Light cruiser construction was an iterative process between World War I and World War II.  They would ultimately produce five subclasses.  However, the final version of the Condottieris, the Abruzzi class, was a vastly different ship than the first series.  Currently the first series is represented in game by the Bartolomeo Colleoni and the third series by the Raimondo Montecuccoli.  The clear differences between those vessels highlight the evolution of the "class."  

 

Luigi Cardona (1943)

 

The second series of Condottieri "class" cruisers consisted of two ships, the Luigi Cadorna, and the Armando Diaz.  They were ordered by the Regia Marina about a year after the first series of Condottieri.  The intention was to improve the protection and seaworthiness of the vessels.  Both ships were laid down in 1930 and completed in 1933.  As built the ships would have the same protection as the first series vessels (the Giussano class represented in game by the Colleoni) but would have stronger hulls and better stability.  The stability was achieved in various ways, but visually the ships would look different as part of the process was lowering the bridge.  The class would also receive a more modern six inch gun.  While the design may seem very weak by typical light cruiser standards it must be noted that they were designed for speed as their purpose was to engage the large French "destroyer leaders."  They were not intended to battle enemy light cruisers.

 

As built the ships would have the following specifications:

Displacement (Full):  7001 tons

Length:  169.3m

Beam: 15.5m

Draft: 5.50m mean depth

Machinery:  2 sets Parsons steam turbines, 6 Yarrow boilers, 95,000 h.p.

Max Speed:  36.5 knots

Armor (in mm):  Belt:  24 + 18, bulkheads: 20, decks: 20, turrets: 40, conning tower: 70 - 25, (with a 30mm communications tube)

Armament:  4 x 2 - 152/53 OTO 1929, 3 x 2 - 100/47 OTO 1928, 2 x 1 - 40/39 Vickers-Terni 1917, 4 x 2 - 13.2/76, 2 x 2 - 533 TT

Crew:  544

 

The class would participate in various mine-laying and convoy escort missions throughout the early years of the war.  They would also both participate in the inconclusive Battle of Calabria in July 1940.  Deemed too frail for sustained combat operations the Cadorna would spend some time in reserve and as a training ship, but the need for ships would bring her back into service in 1942 where she again escorted convoys and laid mines until the armistice.  The Diaz would be torpedoed by HMS Upright in February 1941 and sunk in 6 minutes with the loss of 80% of her crew.  After the armistice the Cadorna would serve on the co-belligerent side until the end of the war.  Post war she would serve as a training ship for the Italian Navy until 1950 and was stricken in May 1951.

 

Both ships would modernize their AA and gain depth charge throwers in 1938.  The Diaz would see no further upgrades, but the Cardona would receive another set of upgrades in late 1943.  In order to differentiate this class from the Bartolomeo Colleoni in War Thunder as much as possible, and to make it a meaningfully different ship, I am proposing the Cardona  in her late 1943 configuration.  In this configuration her seaplane was removed and her armament consisted of  4 x 2 - 152/53 OTO 1929, 3 x 2 - 100/47 OTO 1928, 4 x 2 - 20/65 Breda 1935, 4 x 1 - 20/70 Oerlikon, 2 x 2 - 533 TT.

 

Sources:

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/italy/it_cr_cadorna.htm

https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/ww2/italy/cadorna-class-cruisers

https://www.world-war.co.uk/italy/luigi.php3

[ItssLuBu 1,803]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[Milocat 4,857]

+1, perfect light cruiser for the Italian tree.

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

Is it correct that you sometimes call it "Cardona"?

Also, am I evil enough if I want Armando Diaz instead just because of the name? (and also because Italian 20 mm are more a downgrade than an upgrade) XD

+ I want an Italian ship with seaplanes)

[angelomorte 1,369]

13 hours ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Is it correct that you sometimes call it "Cardona"?

Also, am I evil enough if I want Armando Diaz instead just because of the name? (and also because Italian 20 mm are more a downgrade than an upgrade) XD

+ I want an Italian ship with seaplanes)

laughs in generalissimo 

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

On 29/06/2020 at 03:29, _Condottiero_ said:

Is it correct that you sometimes call it "Cardona"?

Also, am I evil enough if I want Armando Diaz instead just because of the name? (and also because Italian 20 mm are more a downgrade than an upgrade) XD

+ I want an Italian ship with seaplanes)

I suck at spelling Italian names/words.  And Armando Diaz sounds like a billionaire playboy footballer who rescues women from human trafficking operations with an elite team of former special forces soldiers and hackers.  His right hand lieutenant is a former supermodel and extremely good at Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

10 hours ago, Conte_Baracca said:

I suck at spelling Italian names/words.  And Armando Diaz sounds like a billionaire playboy footballer who rescues women from human trafficking operations with an elite team of former special forces soldiers and hackers.  His right hand lieutenant is a former supermodel and extremely good at Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Cabaen 183]

Could be a good light cruiser for the 5.0 battlerank, armor like the Colleoni but the guns of Montecuccoli.

[Cabaen 183]

Since the modern meta at 5.0 is totally dominated by hordes of moffets can we just remove the Colleoni and put the Cadorna in the same place? the Colleoni with 4 rpm is basically not playable at all with thin armor and anemic shells. The Cadorna thanks to TWICE the fire rate can at least be playable.

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

32 minutes ago, Cabaen said:

Since the modern meta at 5.0 is totally dominated by hordes of moffets can we just remove the Colleoni and put the Cadorna in the same place? the Colleoni with 4 rpm is basically not playable at all with thin armor and anemic shells. The Cadorna thanks to TWICE the fire rate can at least be playable.

I don't think we have to get rid of the Colleoni.  But we definitely SHOULD get the Cadorna.

[Fireraid233 4,274]

+1

[ItalianAce02 40]

+1 for both the ships

[LukTroy 124]

+1. Bartolomeo Colleoni should go down to 4.7, and this class can take its place at 5.0

Edited June 2, 2023 by LukTroy

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

17 hours ago, LukTroy said:

+1. Bartolomeo Colleoni should go down to 4.7, and this class can take it's place at 5.0

right?

 

[ironcell26 252]

On 18/02/2023 at 19:03, Conte_Baracca said:

right?

 

+1 for this ship and i agree with a br reduction of the colleoni

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

This ship would be really helpful to flesh out the 5.0/5.3 lineups.

[Cabaen 183]

Just remove the useless (and unfinished) Etna and put this after the Colleoni at 5.0 (just put the Colleoni at 4.7, that ship is not 5.0 material).

Edited May 19, 2023 by Cabaen

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

19 hours ago, Cabaen said:

Just remove the useless (and unfinished) Etna and put this after the Colleoni at 5.0 (just put the Colleoni at 4.7, that ship is not 5.0 material).

I can see why people hate the Etna.  I don't, but it's an opinion I understand and sympathize with.

 

The Colleoni is definitely a 4.7 ship

 

The Cardona is a 5.0 ship and I agree, of course, that it is a must to add.

[Cabaen 183]

16 minutes ago, Conte_Baracca said:

I can see why people hate the Etna.  I don't, but it's an opinion I understand and sympathize with.

 

The Colleoni is definitely a 4.7 ship

 

The Cardona is a 5.0 ship and I agree, of course, that it is a must to add.

Yeah sometimes I'm too vocal about my personal hate about the unfinished ships, personally I think they devaluate the italian tree. Obviously Gaijin will never remove Etna and Margottini  and I can understand many people like those ships.

[Conte_Baracca 4,547]

1 minute ago, Cabaen said:

Yeah sometimes I'm too vocal about my personal hate about the unfinished ships, personally I think they devaluate the italian tree. Obviously Gaijin will never remove Etna and Margottini  and I can understand many people like those ships.

Again, be as vocal as you want.  It's a valid opinion.  I'm just glad we got that instead of cut and paste foreign ships.  Although there are a few of those I want too.  :-)

[LukTroy 124]

I like the Etna, because it's very unique compared to other Italian cruisers.

[ZackZooter 55]

I also agree with most of you who suggested that Colleoni should be 4.7 as Colleoni were 1st group that were built to combat French large destroyer which sacrifices protection for speed at the cost of poor seaworthy.. basically aggressive maneuver and rough turn would cause tilting one-sidedly especially during intense naval battle

 

Not to mention that Colleoni (1st group) in game were on its initial armament which is really poor for early WW2 AA standard. Luigi Cadorna (2nd group) would fill in the blank as its 1943 refit could offer better protection as it loses 4 twin 13mm MG for 4 twin 20mm Breda and 2 single 1917 Pom-pom for 4 single Oerlikon..

 

IF there are another Condottiere 2nd group that undergoes refit that includes their 37mm Breda Autocannon as older Pom-pom are no longer viable and even if it does, there are as few as only 4 single mount for Italian cruisers. Then this ship would not be my prime choice against higher level of match..

 

All that's left for Italian cruisers would be to add another Zara-class cruisers that have initial 8 twin 100mm OTO mod 1928 gun with poor AA armament would make it a nice artillery-style heavy cruiser with all 8 inch guns and 8 100mm secondary guns directly controlled & Trento's cousin, Trieste in its last refit.

 

Why i chose Zara-class -class cruisers, it have better protection and it doesn't carry torpedoes as it becomes external ammo rack.. Bolzano might not fit those choice in my opinion... Basically, Bolzano, Trieste and Zara-class cruiser with the most effective AA mount and maybe just 1 or 2 more post-war light cruiser would complete Italian cruiser navy