[Feedback] Counter insurgency aircraft.

[TerikG2014 1,389]

2 hours ago, Cedjoe said:

Yes my bad it's the military version of the Skymaster.

Well a military version exclusively used by the Rhodesian military.

[Draco_Argentum 1,504]

21 hours ago, AggressiveRecon said:

the biggest issue I see is how to decide when somethign gets added to the COIN/light attack tree and what gets added to the normal tree or at least what gets treated how by BR and matchmaking, generally COIN aicraft would be impossible to balance in air RB

 

Some principles for picking COIN planes vs regular attackers:

1. If BRed by performance would be very anachronistic. Time travelers like the R3 in GF are subject to complaints, the COIN tree would allow aircraft to be added without that problem.
2. Capable of using guided weapons. As an even bigger factor post war guided weapons can't be allowed into WW2 era battles without ruining them.
3. Payload is similar to helicopters in terms of max weight/ability to destroy ground targets. They shouldn't be something that is going to outshine helis in a hypothetical Heli EC that is actually fun.
4. Air to air capabilities are not too good compared to helis. A COIN plane shouldn't be something thats going to make helis feel bad in their own mode. Even though Vikhrs already do that.

One of the bigger issues is likely to be something like the Super Tucano, Skyraider level performance with AIM-9Ls. Obviously the missiles mean it needs a high BR and it fits the COIN concept. But the speed is quite a lot better than the fastest helis.

[blockhaj 3,560]

Here is another Russian COIN AC. The Technoavia SM-92P.

[shanrocks1 383]

This type of aircraft promotes Air Rb Ec, so im all for it. Really would improve the game and give certain vehicles like the A-4 and su-6 a more major role then a fighter.

[GregKjr 520]

I voted for aircraft tech tree.  But I also wanted to add a caveat... I think helicopters should also be in the aircraft tech tree as well.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

We could get a « light aircraft tree » which would include helis and coin plains.

[Flame2512 3,386]

You've said they would be of little use in air battles, but would they actually be any more use in tank battles, or will they just be SPAA food?

 

There are some rather cool COIN aircraft though, so it would be nice to see them in some form.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

2 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

You've said they would be of little use in air battles, but would they actually be any more use in tank battles, or will they just be SPAA food?

 

There are some rather cool COIN aircraft though, so it would be nice to see them in some form.

It would all depend on their BR and what they end up facing I guess...

[Cedjoe 5,482]

I just added the Sipa S.1100 and the MS.1500 Épervier to my previous list.

 

Here's an interesting article about French COIN operations in Indochina and Algeria :

http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v3/v3n1/frcoin.html

[Wolf_89 2,525]

Aircraft from after WW2 could go into a separate line in the Heli tree.

Especially if they can carry AAM/ATGM's.

 

But aircraft's like Bü 181 C-3 should be in the air tree.

 

 

[Flame2512 3,386]

25 minutes ago, Wolf_89 said:

But aircraft's like Bü 181 C-3 should be in the air tree.

 

But if it is in the air tree then it would be allowed into air battles, and the Bü 181 C-3 would be completely worthless in air battles, just being a burden on whichever team it ends up on (and to be honest it would be pretty useless in ground battles as well).

Edited August 16, 2020 by Flame2512

[Iron_physik 3,485]

they simply should be put into the aircraft techtree, because they are fixed wing aircraft.

 

for placement either make a new line, put them in as event planes, or as premiums

alternatively they could be in the atacker lines atlow tiers.

 

 

BRs are given accordingly to their performance, so a OV-10 with only unguied weapons is like 5.7 to 6.0, while it goes up to 7.0 if it gets AIM-9

On 12/08/2020 at 14:14, Draco_Argentum said:

Air to air capabilities are not too good compared to helis. A COIN plane shouldn't be something thats going to make helis feel bad in their own mode. Even though Vikhrs already do that

and what about things like the OV-10?

 

one of its design missions was heli hunting, even without guided weapons.

its tactical manual talks about shooting down MI-24 with proximity fuzed Zuni rockets.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Iron_physik

[Draco_Argentum 1,504]

21 hours ago, Iron_physik said:

and what about things like the OV-10?

 

one of its design missions was heli hunting, even without guided weapons.

its tactical manual talks about shooting down MI-24 with proximity fuzed Zuni rockets.

 

I fail to see the problem? Its not mega fast compared to the better helis and has Sidewinders just like the US helis already have. It might be good at killing helis, but I doubt it'd be OP at it.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

Here I found another one :

 

- Cessna L-19E

Spoiler

https://www.alat.fr/preacutesentation-l-19.html

 

[Cedjoe 5,482]

On 11/08/2020 at 19:05, TerikG2014 said:

That's not a skymaster that's Rhodesian Lynx.

After looking more into it, the Rhodesian Lynx is actually a modification of the Reims-Cessna FTB337G Super Skymaster aka FTMA Milirole (French-built armed version of the Skymaster) which was sold to some other countries as well (Portugal is one IIRC). The lynx had some new armament options including the 2 overwing MGs.

 

Edit : Added it to the list

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Cedjoe

[G3cko873 506]

I think that to help balance aircraft like this, they probably shouldn't be given AAMs. IMHO its more of a problem with things like jet trainers that could potentially be added, as some of them have 8.3-9.3 performance, ordnance that is easily worthy of 9.3-9.7, but their AAMs also completely outclass anything in game. I still think this problem is with propeller driven aircraft though, I don't think its nearly as bad as in a way a lot of the propeller driven aircraft would be like helicopters, but they would sacrifice things like the weapon sight, and the ability to shoot from a stationary position, so using that logic they could just get a BR of helicopters with comparable ordnance.

[TerikG2014 1,389]

7 hours ago, Cedjoe said:

After looking more into it, the Rhodesian Lynx is actually a modification of the Reims-Cessna FTB337G Super Skymaster aka FTMA Milirole (French-built armed version of the Skymaster) which was sold to some other countries as well (Portugal is one IIRC). The lynx had some new armament options including the 2 overwing MGs.

 

Edit : Added it to the list

 

Nice if still add it a British list rather than the French one and maybe give the French the Portuguese one

Edited January 21, 2021 by TerikG2014

[Cedjoe 5,482]

2 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

Nice if still add it a British list rather than the French one and maybe give the French the Portuguese one

France could get the early prototypes which were painted with French roundels.

[TerikG2014 1,389]

1 minute ago, Cedjoe said:

France could get the early prototypes which were painted with French roundels.

That definitely works much like the strikemaster for the UK

[Cedjoe 5,482]

7 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

That definitely works much like the strikemaster for the UK

Yep why not

 

Here are some pictures :

Spoiler

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Cedjoe

[TerikG2014 1,389]

7 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

Yep why not

 

Here are some pictures :

Hide contents

 

Pretty neat  I do like pusher props.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

Just now, TerikG2014 said:

Pretty neat  I do like pusher props.

Yeah they do look nice, hopefully they get a place in game, maybe in heli battles 

[_Pixy 196]

Always had a fascination with COIN aircraft, a personal favorite of mine being the AU-24 Stallion   I hope we get some at some point.

[blockhaj 3,560]

On 15/08/2020 at 17:07, Flame2512 said:

You've said they would be of little use in air battles, but would they actually be any more use in tank battles, or will they just be SPAA food?

Well they should in theory be about as useful as helicopters on lower battleratings. Rocket armed ones would be kinda equal to the AH-1G, while missile armed ones would be more akin to UH-1B's etc.

[AspandaIV 376]

I more than love to see some COIN aircraft in game since they are criminally under-represented ingame

Anyways here is some that i found that are not mentioned

Norman NDN-1 Firecracker (UK)

Spoiler

IAR-823 (Romania)

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Yak 52B (USSR)

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HJT-16 "Kiran" (India)

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HJT 36 (India)

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SOKO J-20 "Kraguj" (Yugoslavia)

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C.6 (Unique Spanish AT-6 Texan variant)

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PC-7 (Switzerland, though this example shown is Austrian)

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P-95 Bandeirulha (Brazil)

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AT-28E (US)

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Caviler Turbo Mustang (US) Note: the other Caviler Mustangs look similar to the Regular Mustangs ingame but like the Turbo mustang and Piper Enforcer is primarily used/intended to be used as a Attack/COIN aircraft

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Piper Enforcer (US)

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