Jump to content

Pbv 301 & Pbv 302 APCs: Battle Boxes


Zombificus
 Share

Please Read Before Voting  

52 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Of These Vehicles Would You Like? (Multiple Choice)

    • Pbv 301
      43
    • Pbv 302A
      36
    • Pbv 302B/C
      41
    • I Don't Know / I Don't Mind
      4
    • None Of Them
      4
  2. 2. If Added, What BR Should Pbv 301 Be?

    • Below 2.7
      11
    • 2.7
      11
    • 3.0
      5
    • 3.3
      1
    • 3.7
      2
    • Above 3.7
      1
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      15
    • Other (Please Comment)
      1
    • I Don't Want It
      5
  3. 3. If Added, What BR Should Pbv 301A Be?

    • Below 2.7
      5
    • 2.7
      5
    • 3.0
      8
    • 3.3
      6
    • 3.7
      1
    • Above 3.7
      4
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      16
    • Other (Please Comment)
      0
    • I Don't Want It
      7
  4. 4. If Added, What BR Should Pbv 302B/C Be?

    • Below 2.7
      5
    • 2.7
      2
    • 3.0
      6
    • 3.3
      6
    • 3.7
      6
    • Above 3.7
      6
    • I Don't Know / I Don't Mind
      16
    • Other (Please Comment)
      0
    • I Don't Want It
      5
  5. 5. If Added, Which Should Be Researchable? (Multiple Choice)

    • Pbv 301
      34
    • Pbv 302A
      31
    • Pbv 302B/C
      36
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      8
    • None Of Them
      1
    • I Don't Want Them
      4
  6. 6. If Added, Which Should Be Premium/Event/Squadron Vehicles? (Multiple Choice)

    • Pbv 301
      11
    • Pbv 302A
      8
    • Pbv 302B/C
      8
    • I Don't Know / Don't Mind
      12
    • None Of Them
      17
    • I Don't Want Them
      4


The Pansarbandvagn 301 and Panzarbandvagn 302 were two Swedish APCs of the 1960s, intended to modernise their armoured forces, who had previously been using the wheeled, lightly-armed Terrängbil m/42 "KP-Bil" as their sole APC. Although different designs, the two were developed in concert, with the less sophisticated Pbv 301 intended as a stop-gap while the definitive Pbv 302 could be brought into production. They are also highly similar vehicles: both are conventional APCs with a boxy, thinly-armoured superstructure similar to the contemporary M113, a fully-tracked chassis, and a 20mm primary armament contained in a small offset turret. Further variants such as the Pbv 302B and 302C implemented additional spaced armour to the front of the APC to bring it up to more modern protection standards, presenting the pinnacle of the type. Although not likely to fare well against tanks due to their light armour and poor penetration, I believe these APCs could slot nicely into Sweden's mid-tier AA line as a complement to the Lvtdgb m/40 "Mad Max truck", providing faster-firing and more intuitive AA armament in contrast to the m/40's higher-penetrating but slow 40mm. 

 

2560px-Pansarbandvagn_301_Revinge_2013-1pansarbandvagn-302-pbv-302_1.jpgh8KgzFC_d.webp?maxwidth=728&fidelity=gracycwifln7d411.png?auto=webp&s=8d396c12b5

 

History:

 

In the late 1950s, the Swedish Army was looking to modernise, having used the 1942 Terrängbil m/42 KP since it entered service in 1944. The vehicle, affectionately known as the KP-bil ("bil" being the Swedish for "car"), was by this point showing its age, even a 1950s refit into a light AA platform not having done much to modernise what was, in effect, a four-wheeled, thinly-armoured troop truck. A look at other nations showed that Sweden was well behind the curve on APC development, so work began on replacing the KP-bil with a modern, fully-tracked design equivalent to the M113 then in trials with the US Army. The slow pace of Swedish armoured development since the war meant that for their first such design, the Swedish designers turned to the same concept behind the Strv 74 and once again converted an obsolete WWII-era tank into a more modern fighting machine. Rather than use the Strv m/42 on which Strv 74 was based, they used the Strv m/41 instead: this 1935 design, part of the same TNH family as the Pz.38(t), was still in reserve in decent numbers and was reasonably reliable for a vehicle of its age. The resulting Pansarbandvagn 301 (armoured tracked vehicle 301) retained the lower hull and running gear of the Strv m/41, but relocated the engine towards the front and fitted an all-new steel superstructure above it. Even though its purpose was to provide a fully-sheltered transport for the infantry, the Pbv 301 was barely more thickly armoured than the vehicle it was replacing except for being fully-roofed. It was the same 8mm as Tgb m/42 everywhere except the front, where its upper glacis was 20mm thick and angled 55 degrees, while the lower glacis was unchanged from the m/41's 50mm, making it the thickest on the entire vehicle.

 

swedish-scania-skpf-kp-bil-apc-in-the-coKP-bilar

The Terrängbil m/42 SKPF / VKPF, which served as Sweden's APC from 1944.

 

Rather than arm their new APC with a 12.7mm HMG as most nations did, the Swedish chose to once again recycle a retired piece of technology: the 20mm akan m/45, formerly the armament of the J 21 and A 21 family of fighter-bombers retired in 1957, which was redesignated m/45B for this new application. Sharing ammunition with the Hispano-armed De Havilland J 28 Vampires Sweden had adopted after the war, they provided more punch than the contemporary M113's M2 Browning but penetrated slightly less (just 25mm at 10m), since the weapon was primarily an aircraft gun, whereas the American 12.7mm cartridge had been designed from the start as a multipurpose anti-materiel round. Operated by the vehicle commander, the akan m/45B was fitted in a small turret atop his cupola, which could rotate 360 degrees, elevate to 60 degrees and depress to 10 degrees, making it suitable for engaging infantry, light armour or aircraft. Interestingly, and unlike the J/A 21s' installation, the HEF-T and AP-T ammunition were fired from different sources: HEF-T was fired from long 135-round belts, while the AP-T came in 10-round magazines. The prototype Pbv 301 was built in 1959 and production of 220 vehicles began in 1960, which quickly replaced the Tgb m/42 and served for a decade until they were themselves replaced by the superior Pbv 302 in 1971. Of these 220 examples, 20 were built as Slpbv (stridsledningspansarbandvagn) 3011 command vehicles, while a further 15 were forward artillery observation vehicles, designated Epbv (eldledningspansarbandvagn) 3012. Reflecting its stop-gap nature, the Pbv 301 had no secondary armament or NBC protection and was incapable of amphibious use, unlike the M113 and the subsequent Pbv 302. It was, nevertheless, a major step forward for the Swedish and presented a definite improvement over their antiquated Tgb m/42s. 

 

Stridsvagn m/41 – Wikipedia5D3_6137.jpg

The Pbv 301 shared the lower hull and running gear of the obsolete Strv m/41 medium tank.

 

Beginning development in 1961, just as the Pbv 301 was beginning to enter service, the Pbv 302 was intended to complete the modernisation of the Swedish Forces by supplying a truly modern APC that was equal to the M113 and not the last gasp of a deeply obsolete chassis. Hägglund & Söner, who would go on to produce the massively successful CV90 family, started entirely from scratch and produced an accordingly different vehicle: almost a metre longer than Pbv 301, it had a more curved shape which formed a shallow "V" front, in contrast to its predecessor's slab sides and simple one-piece frontal slope. Unlike Pbv 301, and like the M113, it was amphibious and NBC protected, although it retained steel for its hull rather than aluminium. Compared to the US vehicle, it had a very similar weight and engine, resulting in nearly identical power-to-weight ratios and top speeds between the two. The only features retained from Pbv 301 were the steel armour, somewhat similar suspension, and the 20mm main armament; everything else about the old design was entirely discarded. The new vehicle also gained secondary armament of one coaxial Ksp 58 7.62mm machine gun (a variant of the FN MAG), and on the Pbv 302C variant two 71mm illumination mortars, making it more versatile overall than the vehicle it had replaced. The Pbv 302 also moved the main gun from a remote controlled station above the commander's cupola to a full turret for the gunner, making the weapon accessible for reloading without exiting the vehicle. 

 

pbv_302-7.jpg430239.png

A Pbv 302A or B without external armour, and a UN Pbv 302B or C with the add-on ceramic blocks.

 

Like its predecessor, Pbv 302 had a 20mm armament recycled from retired aircraft, but in this case it was the akan m/47B (Hispano Mk V in Swedish service) formerly used on the De Havilland J 28 Vampire and Saab J 29A Tunnan fighters, which was redesignated for ground use as with the Pbv 301's gun, becoming the akan m/47D. It fired the same rounds at the same velocities as the akan m/45B, and thus retained the same 25mm maximum penetration, since the Swedish did not use the same AP-T belts as the British (the British Vampire FB 5, for instance, has AP-T which penetrates 26mm at 10m in game, whereas the Swedish J 28B Vampire penetrates only 25mm with its equivalent belt). The Pbv 301's arrangement of long HE belts and small AP magazines was found overcomplicated and was later replaced by a system of 30-round universal magazines, of which 10 were carried (some sources claim a total of 505 rounds, but this number is actually the ammunition carried before the change to universal magazines: (135 HE x 3) + (10 AP x 10) = 505 rounds total.) Following the initial Pbv 302A model, the Pbv 302B introduced spall liners and distinctive external applique armour, thus representing the peak of protection offered by the Pbv 302 series. The Pbv 302C took the 302B and further upgraded it by improving the suspension, replacing the turbo, lights and A/C unit, and adding the pair of 71mm illumination mortars I mentioned before. As with the Pbv 301, the Pbv 302 saw production in specialised variants as well as the base APC, such as the Stripbv (stridsledningspansarbandvagn) 3021 command vehicle, the Epbv (bldledningspansarbandvagn) 3022 forward observation vehicle, the Pjrekpbv (päsrekognoseringspansarbandvagn) 3025 battery reconnaisance vehicle, and the Brobv (brobandvagn) 941 armoured bridgelayer, among others. The Pbv 302 served in combat zones more than once as part of Sweden's contributions to UN efforts in Bosnia and Kosovo, during which time the vehicles came under fire freqently, including by RPGs and other anti-tank rockets, but generally performed well, particularly with the add-on ceramic package fitted in 1993, which allowed vehicles to survive hits that would otherwise have been fatal. Although it has now been mostly replaced by the CV90 series of IFVs, the Pbv 302 remains in limited second-line service with the Swedish Army, whereas the related Ikv 91 (the two share many components) came later but has already been retired. 

 

As Sweden's first truly modern APCs, and in Pbv 302's case one of the longest-serving members of its armed forces, these oft-forgotten Cold War vehicles deserve recognition for their historical significance; recognition I'm sure they could earn in War Thunder.  

 

Specifications (Pbv 301):

 

5D3_6138.jpg

 

Length: 4.66m

Width: 2.23m

Height: 2.64m

Weight: 11.7t

Crew: 2 (Driver, Commander/Gunner) + 8 Passengers

Armour: 20mm UFP (at 55 degrees), 50mm lower glacis, 8mm sides and rear

Primary Armament: remote controlled 20mm akan m/45B autocannon

Primary Ammunition: 3x 135-round HEF-T belts + 10x 10-round AP-T magazines

Secondary Armament: None

Engine: Svenska Flygmotor B44 gasoline engine (160 hp)

P/W Ratio: 13.68 hp/tonne

Max Speed: 28 mph (45 kph)

Smoke: 6x smoke grenades

 

Specifications (Pbv 302A):

 

Pansarbandvagn_302_Revinge_2015-4-1.jpg

 

Length: 5.35m

Width: 2.86m

Height: 2.50m

Weight: 14 tonnes

Crew: 3 (Driver, Commander, Gunner) + 8 Passengers

Armour: 23mm frontal armour, proof against small arms & shrapnel elsewhere (est. 8mm+)

Primary Armament: 20mm akan m/47D autocannon

Primary Ammunition: 3x 135-round HEF-T belts + 10x 10-round AP-T magazines (initial) or 10x 30-round universal magazines (typical)

Secondary Armament: 1x 7.62mm Ksp 58 coaxial light machine gun (1000 rounds)

Engine: Volvo THD 100 (270 hp)

P/W Ratio: 19.29 hp/tonne

Max Speed: 41.25 mph (66 kph)

Smoke: 6x smoke grenades

 

Specifications (Pbv 302B/C):

 

Pansarbandvagn_302_Artillerimuseet_2017-

 

Length: 5.35m

Width: 2.86m

Height: 2.50m

Weight: 14 tonnes

Crew: 3 (Driver, Commander, Gunner) + 8 Passengers

Armour: 23mm steel + spaced ceramic-based applique (unknown thickness) frontal armour, proof against small arms & shrapnel elsewhere (est. 8mm+)

Primary Armament: 20mm akan m/47D autocannon

Primary Ammunition: 10x 30-round universal magazines

Secondary Armament: 1x 7.62mm Ksp 58 coaxial light machine gun (1000 rounds)

Engine: Volvo THD 100 (270 hp)

P/W Ratio: 19.29 hp/tonne

Max Speed: 41.25 mph (66 kph)

Smoke: 6x smoke grenades

 

Specifications (akan m/45B):

 

EIKd7WyXUAAfkcQ.jpg:large

 

Calibre: 20mm 

Cartridge: 20x110mm Hispano-Suiza

Weight: 49.5kg

Total Length: 2014mm

Barrel Length: 1300mm 

Muzzle Velocity: 845-880 m/s 

Rate of Fire: 725 rpm (some sources state that ROF was reduced to 300 rpm for the m/45B)

Ammunition Types: AP-T, HEF-T (Initially carried in 10-round AP magazines & 135-round HE belts, later replaced by 30-round universal magazines)

Penetration: 25mm at 10m; 23mm at 100m; 17mm at 500m (AP-T)

Firing Angles: 360 degree traverse, -10 to 60 degrees elevation

 

Specifications (akan m/47D):

 

pbv_302-vapenhuv.gif

 

Calibre: 20mm 

Cartridge: 20x110mm Hispano-Suiza

Weight: 38.0kg

Total Length: 2184mm

Barrel Length: 1333mm 

Muzzle Velocity: 840-880 m/s 

Rate of Fire: 600-850 rpm 

Ammunition Types: AP-T, HEF-T, and later MPHC-T (Initially carried in 10-round AP magazines & 135-round HE belts, later replaced by 30-round universal magazines)

Penetration: 25mm at 10m; 23mm at 100m; 17mm at 500m (AP-T)

Firing Angles: 360 degree traverse, -10 to 50 degrees elevation

Sights: 8x magnification 

 

Their Place In The Game:

 

Due to their limited armour penetration, these APCs could only really be SPAAs in War Thunder's meta, in which role they could provide an alternative to mid-tier 40mm AA like the soon-to-be 2.7 Lvtdgb m/40 "Mad Max truck" and the L-62 Anti-II up at 3.7. Sweden's existing AA at these BRs have hard-hitting guns but both have appallingly slow traverse and elevation speeds, especially the Anti-II, while also being fragile and open-topped. The Pbv 301 and Pbv 302 feature more armour (even if not by much), higher-velocity guns with faster ROF, and powered gun traverse, as well as being both faster and fully enclosed. Their downsides are their almost useless AP ammunition (combining low-penetration and a very small magazine size), smaller crews (as Pbv 301 has just 2 crew, the tank dies as soon as one of its crew does), and their more limited elevation angle of 60 degrees for Pbv 301 and 50 degrees for Pbv 302. This is still better than the hopeless 45 degrees Pvlvv fm/42 has to work with, particularly Pbv 301, so unlike that tank they should still be able to engage planes without too much trouble, but it does mean that they are entirely defenceless against planes diving on them, which is definitely something to consider.

 

The Pbvs' small ammo reserves are also something of a weakness, with the early ammo storage system giving just 405 HEF-T rounds in three belts and 100 AP-T rounds across 10 magazines. The later system is an improvement for AP use, since it triples the ammunition available before each reload, but since just 10 of the universal magazines are carried, this gives a supply of just 300 rounds split between the two ammo types. This is not a huge amount to work with: compared to Crusader AA Mk II, the Pbv 302B has half the rounds per gun as well as half as many guns, whereas Flakpanzer 38(t) carries four times the amount for its single 20mm. A comparable and successful AA is in game already, however -- the Flakpanzer I. This vehicle has just 20 more rounds than the Pbv 302B (and less than early Pbv 302s or Pbv 301 with their 505-round total) and like Pbv 301 features a two-man crew, with one man forced to fire and load the gun by himself. Given that Flakpanzer I uses 20-round magazines and gets a reload of 3.0-3.9s, it's likely that even on Pbv 301, where the commander has to reach out the hatch to reload his gun, the reload on the 10-round AP magazines should be relatively short, most likely around the 1.5-2.5s range. The 135-round HE belts would not doubt take longer, but the much longer times between reloads should balance this out. Pbv 302, meanwhile, would no doubt reload even faster since its gunner has a dedicated turret and the commander can help load by passing up ammo from the hull, so all things considered its 30-round universal magazines would probably sit around the same reload as Flakpanzer I's 20-round ones. On balance, granted a reload in the realm of Flakpanzer I's or better (which I think is pretty likely), these should still be workable AA even if they are on the lower end of the ammo scale.

 

These vehicles' status as Cold War AAs with 20mm autocannons might have some of you fearful that they will be a repeat of the R3 T20 FA-HS, which has been a colossal pain in the backside since it was added. If we look at the statistics of these vehicles, though, I think it's clear that this would not be the case. The R3's Oerlikon KAD has a rate of fire of 1000 RPM and a muzzle velocity of 1100 m/s, which makes it intuitive to aim since the velocity reduces the need to lead your shots while also drastically reducing the time-to-kill against an air target since so many rounds will hit it in the space of just a second or two. Neither of the Pbvs' armaments have such extreme performance: their velocity of 800-840 m/s is in the same ballpark as the German 20mms used on most of their AA (their HE gets 900 m/s, which is even faster, while their AP gets the slightly slower 780 m/s), while their rate of fire sits at around 725 RPM for both guns, which is faster than the Flakpanzer I's 480 RPM but not nearly as fast as the R3's and less than half of the Wirbelwind's combined ROF with its quad gun setup. If the one source that states that the rate of fire was reduced to 300 RPM on these tank-based mounts (which would make sense given the small magazine size) is correct, then they would actually have one of the slowest fire rates out of the 20mms in the game and would be entirely incapable of being abused like the R3. The small ammo supply before reloads, especially with AP-T or the 30-round universal magazines, also makes it less likely that even the highest stated fire rate would be abused for spray-and-pray tactics the way the R3's much larger belts encourage. The two APCs are also tracked, preventing the irritating R3 tactic of running in circles around its victim, and are both much slower than the armoured car, making them less likely to get to the cap well ahead of their team and steal it for themselves. The low AP, while disappointing, is another factor that ensures they won't be such problematic vehicles, as they will be unable to penetrate even the sides and rears of many tanks, reducing them to only killing vehicles that would also be vulnerable to the ubiquitous M2 Brownings mounted on nearly every American vehicle.

 

All things considered, I believe these vehicles could work well between 2.7 and 3.7 between the Lvtdgb m/40 and the Anti-II, where they'd give an easier-to-aim AA counterpart to the more AT-focused 40mm AA, or perhaps even lower to give an actually effective alternative to the Pvlvv fm/42, which is a serviceable light tank but little else. Despite being postwar vehicles, there are already tanks of that era in Tier II such as the Sav m/43 (1946) and the Ikv 73 event vehicle, so they wouldn't be all that much out of place in their own tree. Pbv 301's distinctive lower chassis, shared with the Strv m/41, Pz.38(t) and Hetzer, would make it an even better fit for the lower 2.X bracket than Pbv 302 is, so the two could even be split up either side of Lvtdgb m/40, each would still fit pretty well. The precise BRs of these vehicles are pretty open to debate, since their unique combination of era and capabilities could fit them comfortably across a degree of positions, so in the end I'm not too attached to any particular idea. I'd prefer they be added wherever they're most balanced and most helpful to the tree, which could certainly use some more effective AA at the lower tiers.

 

I hope you like these vehicles, and I look forward to reading your comments!

 

More Pictures:

 

Spoiler

5D3_5804.jpg

5D3_6361.jpg

A museum Pbv 301

 

pbv_301-11.jpg

pbv_301-12.jpg

The prototype Pbv 301.

 

Ls95KcL.jpg

Pansarbandvagn_302_Revinge_2015-3-1.jpg

Pansarbandvagn_302_Revinge_2015-2-1.jpg

A Pbv 302 on exercise.

 

Swedish_Pbv_302_IFOR_Bosnia-1.jpg

A Pbv 302C of IFOR in the field. 

 

pbv_302-29.jpg

The prototype Pbv 302.

 

pbv_302-18.jpg

Pbv 302A production.

 

pbv_302-2.jpg

A Pbv 302A swimming with its splash plate extended.

 

pbv_302-32.jpg

A Pbv 302B from the front with ceramic applique plates fitted.

 

pbv_302-33.gif

A comparison of the Pbv 302A and B's rear; the Bs were the result of a REMO program.

 

pbv_302-6.jpg

KFOR Pbv 302Bs or Cs on the move.

 

2560px-Pansarbandvagn_301_Revinge_2013-1

A Pbv 301 and an S-Tank on exercise.

 

0w1gfkous2901.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&a

Pbv-302-P6-SIB-1987-Revinge-24-av-26-e15

EEWu8WfXkAAvTsD.jpg

A Pbv 301A with an additional machine gun fixed to its 20mm.

 

EKKiyoFXYAIsIiw.jpg

A Swedish soldier stands in front of a UN Pbv 302 ready for transport by train.

 

pbv_302-5.jpg

A Pbv 302A.

 

pbv_302-40.jpg

A Pbv 3021 command vehicle.

 

pbv_302-13.jpg

One of Pbv 302's many variants.

 

UDES08-2web.jpg

A Pbv 302 during UDES' testing exercises; the UDES XX20 can be seen behind.

 

cycwifln7d411.png?auto=webp&s=8d396c12b5

A Pbv 301 and 302 in a convoy following a Strv 102R.

 

430239.png

A UN Pbv 301C.

 

r9ue0fw1as341.jpg

blwdanx5gs341.jpg

This Pbv 301C suffered a hit on its left side by an RPG or ATGM. Its convoy suffered multiple vehicles knocked out and 5 wounded, but no-one was killed, thanks in part to the fibreglass spall liners fitted prior to their deployment in 1993.

 

2560px-PBV_301_mg_7765.jpg

The interior of a Pbv 301.

 

15108051850_ec04c440e6_b.jpg

A museum Pbv 301 with its splash plate down.

 

XUXT5sRKdymUGFmHTvhR3NmWzNlpz1bKX1AnhTW0

A Pbv 301A on an exercise.

 

post-2-1231015672.jpg

PDRM1445-e1520963038183.jpg

KFOR Pbv 302Bs / Cs without the add-on armour.

 

Sources:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansarbandvagn_301

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansarbandvagn_302

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_20_mm_automatkanon_m/45 (source in Swedish)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano-Suiza_HS.404#Post-war_development

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/Sweden/Pansarbandvagn-301.php

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/coldwar/Sweden/Pansarbandvagn-302.php

https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=271

https://arsenalen.se/en/katalog/pansarbandvagn-301-pbv-301/ (source in Swedish)

http://www.ointres.se/pbv_301.htm (source in Swedish)

http://www.ointres.se/pbv_302.htm (source in Swedish)

https://www.sphf.se/svenskt-pansar/fordon/pansarbandvagn/pbv-302-fordonsfamilj/ (source in Swedish)

http://www.armedforces.co.uk/Europeandefence/edequipment/edland/edland4a10.htm

https://tvd.im/land-systems/2810-pansarbandvagn-302-pbv-302.html#hmenu-5

 

Edited by Zombificus
  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really not sure how I feel about these, for the same reason Synthjaeger mentioned.  I'm going to adopt a wait-and-see attitude on this thread.  

 

Have a funny video to sweeten the deal (the thread title inspired me to find and link):  

Spoiler

 

 

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the feeling that 25mm of penetration is not enough for self defense and the turret would not make it a effective SPAA. A single 20mm for a BR 3.7 with a RoF this low it would be painful. It could go lower BR but there it would meet early WW2 vehicles wich sort of break the game experience. I think we could set it aside

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh good someone beat me to it, I had a heck of a time finding info on these. I don't see why there's the R3 comparisons (for the Pbv 301),  this doesn't have the same anti-tank capability, or the same mobility, if I'm honest, as the R3. I think it would make a good 2.7 SPAA, but that's me.

Edited by Solarmod
  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To bad they don't have any rockets/missiles to make them useful.

Could prob be used as SPAA. Depending of turret speed & elevation speed.

Could prob work in Br 1.7-2.7. At that BR range they MIGHT be able to do some damage to other vehicles.

Edited by Wolf_89
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
On 28/10/2020 at 20:36, Wolf_89 said:

To bad they don't have any rockets/missiles to make then useful.

Could prob be used as SPAA. Depending of turret speed & elevation speed.

Could prob work in Br 1.7-2.7. At that BR range they MIGHT be able to do some damage to other vehicles.

There was a version that had an RBS 56 BILL ATGM launcher which was mentioned in the Pvrbtgb B RBS56 thread on here. 

Though it is not described or covered in detail.

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

There is also the UDES 08(later called PBV 302H), its a modified version of the pbv 302, it was tested with Mauser mk25E, Oerlikon KBA, Oerlinkon KBB, Rheinmetall RH-20 and M242 Bushmaster cannons. It was also used to test if overlapping roadwheels gave any advantages and disadvantages.

https://www.ointres.se/udes.htm

Spoiler

udes_08-rigg_web1.jpg

 

  • Upvote 3
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/12/2020 at 16:18, INFOSEC said:

There was a version that had an RBS 56 BILL ATGM launcher which was mentioned in the Pvrbtgb B RBS56 thread on here. 

Though it is not described or covered in detail.

I know about that one. I was more talking about having missiles and its 20 mm gun.

Edited by Wolf_89
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it would have 42mm of pen since thats what the PVLVV FM/42 has and they use basicaly the same ammo at the same speed.

Edited by strv122
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as i love to have the Pbv-301/302's ingame since Sweden have some noticeable gaps in their TT, unfortunately i'm going to say no to this suggestion atm mainly because they cannot be placed without either being a total suffer bus or completely dominating the br it's placed in and there are currently better alternatives (both in terms of both SPAAG's & light tanks) that Sweden and Finland used that can be added in the Swedish TT also it doesn't help that it's only anti-tank round is a low penning AP-T belt

If it had one or more of the following changes/features i'll be more inclined to seeing this APC ingame

  • An HVAP/APDS shell that the 20mm autocannon can use assuming if there is a HVAP/APDS shell for it.
  • An additional Anti air/Anti tank weapon to compliment the 20mm (i.e a age appropriate ATGM, SAM or Recoilless rifle)
  • A variant with a more powerful Autocannon that can be added or a researchable module that upgrades the 20mm into a more powerful Autocannon like what STRV122 stated
    On 10/01/2021 at 02:27, strv122 said:

    There is also the UDES 08(later called PBV 302H), its a modified version of the pbv 302, it was tested with Mauser mk25E, Oerlikon KBA, Oerlinkon KBB, Rheinmetall RH-20 and M242 Bushmaster cannons. It was also used to test if overlapping roadwheels gave any advantages and disadvantages.

    https://www.ointres.se/udes.htm

      Reveal hidden contents

    udes_08-rigg_web1.jpg

     

  • The ability to scout and repair friendly vehicles like light tanks and certain TD's & SPAAG's. Since the Pbv-301/302 is an APC, it can potentially get a brand new gameplay feature that essentially gives it the ability to replenish friendly tanks crewmembers (note: this can only work if you have any troops inside the troop compartments and can also replenish your own crew with them)
  • Upvote 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, AspandaIV said:

As much as i love to have the Pbv-301/302's ingame since Sweden have some noticeable gaps in their TT, unfortunately i'm going to say no to this suggestion atm mainly because they cannot be placed without either being a total suffer bus or completely dominating the br it's placed in and there are currently better alternatives (both in terms of both SPAAG's & light tanks) that Sweden and Finland used that can be added in the Swedish TT also it doesn't help that it's only anti-tank round is a low penning AP-T belt

If it had one or more of the following changes/features i'll be more inclined to seeing this APC ingame

  • An HVAP/APDS shell that the 20mm autocannon can use assuming if there is a HVAP/APDS shell for it.
  • An additional Anti air/Anti tank weapon to compliment the 20mm (i.e a age appropriate ATGM, SAM or Recoilless rifle)
  • A variant with a more powerful Autocannon that can be added or a researchable module that upgrades the 20mm into a more powerful Autocannon like what STRV122 stated
  • The ability to scout and repair friendly vehicles like light tanks and certain TD's & SPAAG's. Since the Pbv-301/302 is an APC, it can potentially get a brand new gameplay feature that essentially gives it the ability to replenish friendly tanks crewmembers (note: this can only work if you have any troops inside the troop compartments and can also replenish your own crew with them)

On the 20mm there is no hvap/apds as far as i know and there is one version that mounts a rb56 atgm

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...
  • Senior Suggestion Moderator

As the Pbv 301 has been implemented with update 2.9 Direct Hit,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions. :salute:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...