Hungarian Tank Tree - Updated

[Rieskaruisku 506]

Gimme those Zrínyis. Now!

 

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[Dzsigolo_Lanty 1,435]

 Hunor and Csepel k 250 prototípus /prototype 

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A Hunor úszó páncélautó és a Csepel k 250 prototípus ,avagy a Csaba utódai ,ha megvalósulnak !

A háborús évek tervezett fegyverzetei sorában
kerekes jármûvek között az utolsó a Hunor páncélautó
volt. 1940-ben kezdtek vele foglalkozni, mint a Csaba
utódjával, 1943-ban a tervek készen álltak. Ekkor a
HM és a hadvezetõség megvitatta a gyártást, és nem
járult hozzá. A kivitelezésre nem volt elegendõ kapacitás
és anyag. AWM le volt terhelve a harckocsiprogrammal,
ezért Harmos Zoltán vezérõrnagy nem
engedett új típust gyártásba venni, a Csaba páncélautó
3. sorozatát rendelték meg, 70 db-ról 50-re csökkentve
a szériát.
A terv az 1940-es évek legmodernebb úszóképes
páncélautója volt. Atest a német xxxx.Kfz. 67a típusú páncélautóját
használta fel mintának. Ezt a kúpos páncélautótestet
1935 körül tervezték, fõleg rádiós jármûként
volt ismert. Háború alatti jelzése Kfz. 232 volt. Hasonló
méretû volt a Benz és Büssing-NAG xxxx.Kfz. 67 típus is.
Az alváz szimmetrikus 3 tengelyes, 6 kerekû típus
volt, 11.00 x 20 méretû lõbiztos Lypsoid abronccsal.
Ez a nyersgumibelsõvel ellátott gumi Straussler egyik
szabadalma volt, de a háború alatt a kaucsuk beszerzése
már reménytelen volt.
A meghajtásra 2 db V-8-as Cadillac rendszerû benzinmotor
szolgált, ez 65 mkg nyomaték mellett 165 LE
teljesítményû volt. A fékrendszer Humber Hexonaut
rendszerû elektromos volt. A kétirányú vezetõfülkés
felépítményben 3-4 fõ fért el. A torony középre
helyezett, német mintájú. Egy 20 mm-es gépágyút és
egy 8 mm-es géppuskát hordozott. Üzem közben mocsárjáró
képessége mellett egy átkapcsolással két
hajócsavar-meghajtással is tudott vízen úszni. Az
úszást a test két oldalán végighúzódó gumírozott vászonból
készült hurka biztosította, amelyek kompreszszorral
bármikor felfújhatók voltak. Ennek rajzai 1946-
ban Straussler útján kikerültek a WM-bõl, és az Alvis
gyár keretein belül hasznosultak.
Ez a terv ott mint Straussler-Alvis 12 ton.
Amphibious Armounred Car vagy AAC 10-12 (DD
típ.) szerepel. Ennek alapján dolgozták ki 1949 után a
Saladin, Saladin Mk1, Saracen I. és II. páncélautókat.
A magyar katonai vezetés 1948 után újból javasolta
a Hunor terv elõvételét és a Csepel gyár bázisán való
megvalósítását. Ezt nem ismert okból elutasították, de
a HTI 1950-ben mégis parancsot kap új páncélautó tervezésére
a Csepeli gyár fõdarabjaiból. Ez a Csaba
utángyártása lett volna, de csak a famodellje készült el,
mikor a szovjet fegyverzet miatt a programot törölték.

[Dzsigolo_Lanty 1,435]

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Belpolitika - Katonai díszszemle a Felvonulási téren

Magyarország, Budapest, Budapest

Budapest, 1985. április 4. A Magyar Néphadsereg BRDM-2 úszóképes páncélozott felderítő járművei a rájuk épített SA-9 (Gaskin) kis hatómagasságú önjáró légvédelmi rakétarendszerrel vonulnak el a dísztribün előtt az április 4-ei (1950 és 1989 között állami ünnep) díszszemlén a Felvonulási téren (2006-tól 56-osok tere). MTI Fotó: Friedmann Endre
A 9K31 Sztrela–1 (SA–9 Gaskin) a Szovjetunióban az 1960-as években kifejlesztett, páncélozott járműre telepített, kis hatómagasságú önjáró légvédelmi rakétarendszer. Hordozójárműve az úszóképes BRDM–2 felderítő harcjármű átalakított változata, amely két pár (összesen négy darab) szállító–indító konténert hordozhat. A rakétarendszerhez a 9M31 légvédelmi rakétát alkalmazzák. Modernizált változata a Sztrela–1M, melyhez a 9M31M légvédelmi rakétát használják.

 

9K31 Strela-1 /SA-9 (Gaskin)

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Dzsigolo_Lanty

[Dzsigolo_Lanty 1,435]

T-55AM1 or T-55AMH

 

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A T-55AM adatai (T-55A, Magyarországi AM, Csehszlovák AM2, 1986-88 évi példák):

	T-55A	T-55AM (Magyar)	T-55AM2 (Csehszlovák)
Tömeg:	38000 kg	38500 kg (+3000kg BDD)	41500 kg
Hossz:	9000 mm	9000 mm	9000 mm
Szélesség:	3760 mm	3760 mm	3760 mm
Magasság:	2400 mm	2400 mm	2400 mm
Hasmagasság:	340mm	340mm	340mm
Sebesség úton (terepen):	50 (27) km/h	50 (27) km/h	50 (27) km/h
Hatótáv (terepen):	500 (320)km	500 (320)km	500 (320)km
Árokáthidalás:	2,5 m	2,5 m	2,4 m
Teljesítmény:	572 Le (427kW)	572 Le (427kW)	611 Le (456kW) (920kg)
Fajlagos telj.:	13,78	13,78	14,72
Fő fegyverzet:	100mm H/53.5  D-10TS löveg lőszer: 51 db	100mm H/53.5  D-10TS löveg (TG is!) hőköpennyel, lőszer: 43 db 23 repesz-romboló 14 páncéltörő (APCBC) 6 páncéltörő, nyíllövedék (APDS)	100mm H/53.5 D-10TSA löveg, hőköpennyel, Lőszer: 38db 18 repesz-romboló 4 páncéltörő (APCBC) 6 páncéltörő, kumulatív (HEAT) 10 páncéltörő, nyíllövedék (APDS) (háborúban +max 5db 9k116 Bastion rakéta)
Másodlagos fegyverzet:	7.62mm PKT gpu, 3000 db 12,7 mm DSK n. gpu, 500db	7.62mm PKT géppuska, 3000 db 12,7 mm DSK nehézgéppuska, 500db 8 db elektromos működtetésű 81mm  TUCA ködgránátvető	7.62mm PKT gpu. 3000 db (később: 1500) 12,7 mm DSKM nehézgéppuska, 500db 8 db elektromos működtetésű 81mm  TUCA ködgránátvető
Személyzet fegyvere:	20 gr. 3 pu. 1gk.	20 kézigránát, 3 pisztoly, 1 gépkarabély	20 kézigránát, 4 géppisztoly
Tűzvezető rendszer:	STP-2 Ciklon stabilizátor TS-2-22 célzótávcső R-173 rádió	Kladivo számítógép, CM-2 kétsíkú stabilizátor 5x nagyítású PNK parancsnoki periszkóp kapcsolt gnoiméterrel TS2B-32K célzótávcső, amely képérére a számítógép a cél adatainak megfelelően referencia-pontot jelöl mozgó vörös hajszálcsíkkal. Szélérzékelő és besugárzásjelző R-173 rádió	Kladivo számítógép, CM-2 kétsíkú stabilizátor Parancsnok számára 5x nagyítású PNK periszkóp kapcsolt gnoiméterrel TPN-1-49-23célzótávcső, amely képérére a számítógép a cél adatainak megfelelően referenciapontot 1K13 célzótávcső a Bastion rakéta irányításához Szélérzékelő és besugárzásjelző R-173 rádió
Védettség függőleges RHA ekviva-lenciában, kinetikus / kumulatív lőszerek ellen, mm-ben	Test front: 200 Test oldal: 80 Test far: 47 Test padló: 20 Test tető: 15 Torony front: 203 Torony oldal: 160 Torony hátul: 65 Torony tető: 30	Test felső homlokpáncél: 320 / 450 Test oldal: 80+5 / 230 Torony front: 203-320 / 203-450 Torony oldal: 150-220 / 150-450 Vezető alatt: 20+20 (aknák ellen hatásos szendvics kivitel) Többi részen azonos a T-55A-val	Test felső homlokpáncél: 320 / 450 Test oldal: 80+5 / 230 Torony front: 203-320 / 203-450 Torony oldal: 150-220 / 150-450 Vezető alatt: 20+20 (aknák ellen hatásos szendvics kivitel) Többi részen azonos a T-55A-val

 

 

https://makettinfo.hu/forum/image.php?img_id=269245&size=full#image_269245

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Dzsigolo_Lanty

[DarthGergely 464]

T-55AM was a 1980s modernization of the basic T-55 tank. The 144 T-55AM tanks received Czechoslovak-produced "Kladivo" fire control system, thermal sleeve on gun, new mounting for 12,7mm HMG, a laser rangefinder, mounted over the barrel, inside a large rectangular armoured box. Hungarian tanks fitted with BDD add-on armour blocks on the turret front-sides area and glacis (known as the "horse-shoes" or the "Brezhnev's eyebrow" armour). The BDD armour panels consist of armoured steel boxes filled with Penpolyurethane and thin HHS steel plates. The BDD semi-reactive armor adding 120mm of protection against APDS and 200-250mm of protection against HEAT ammunition, thus these tanks had similar protection as early versions of T-72 (similarly to the Czech AM2s). The type was partly unsuccessful due to the unreliable Kladico FCS and inadequate mobility (Hungarian vehicles never received new engines). T-55AM tanks were withdrawn from service during the early years of the 2000s (decade), some scrapped, some mothballed, leaving only a handful of T-72B and T-72M vehicles in active Hungarian army service

[Sternjaeger84 1,076]

23 hours ago, Jacky95 said:

Thats going to be the king of premium lines than. 30+ Hungarian,Romanian premiums+ Itallian premiums. 

I said tech tree integration, no premiums (except prototype). JUst add a Hungarian line in the Italian tech tree, and just mix the SPAAGs and maybe SPGs with Italians. There aren't so much Hungarian stuff.

[PacketlossRedux 595]

19 minutes ago, UFO_Interceptor said:

I said tech tree integration, no premiums (except prototype). JUst add a Hungarian line in the Italian tech tree, and just mix the SPAAGs and maybe SPGs with Italians. There aren't so much Hungarian stuff.

Gaijin already said no to that, not to mention the Itallian community too would rather see Itallian vehicles in the normal tech tree. Based on the latest Gaijin comments they intended Hungary and Romania as premiums for Italy, most likely cherrypicking a few stuff+shoveling already existing premiums there. 

side branches are a thing of fantasy,independently of it being a good or bad idea.

so in the current state of the game, thats out of the question. 

[Matt_82 1,096]

I think the low tier vehicles of this tree look genuinely interesting and I'd like to see them in game. One you get past WWII though, things get very c&p and the interest dries up. 

 

The mix of German and Russian stuff means that one of those nations will be fighting against it's own tanks and we already have that with the US and it sucks.

 

So imo I'd rather see this become minor axis or a tree that stops at WWII as that's where the unique vehicles end.  I'd rather they had mini trees that either start at WWII and end afterwards or start afterwards in the case of Israel than try make complete trees just because that's how it's always been done with larger military countries. 

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

1 hour ago, UFO_Interceptor said:

I said tech tree integration, no premiums (except prototype). JUst add a Hungarian line in the Italian tech tree, and just mix the SPAAGs and maybe SPGs with Italians. There aren't so much Hungarian stuff.

There are too many vehicles to add as regulars and that would not fit because there would be 8 or more branches in just one tree....that's not game play friendly 

[stefffff1871 2,448]

5 hours ago, UFO_Interceptor said:

I said tech tree integration, no premiums (except prototype). JUst add a Hungarian line in the Italian tech tree, and just mix the SPAAGs and maybe SPGs with Italians. There aren't so much Hungarian stuff.

some months ago i would have agreed with you, BUT

1. the italian line is complete trash in my eyes

2. the most produced IAR 81 version is already a premium there so i actually want (a) seperate axis-tree(s) asap.

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

15 hours ago, stefffff1871 said:

some months ago i would have agreed with you, BUT

1. the italian line is complete trash in my eyes

2. the most produced IAR 81 version is already a premium there so i actually want (a) seperate axis-tree(s) asap.

3. If most produced vehicles end up premiums in an already existing tree people will complain, if just a couple of vehicles end up in a single line people will complain because there wouldn't be space for more. Third, any minor nation that coule be proposed would have DOUBLE the indigenous vehicles that China has....if Gaijin wants to play this game they must make things better then China, and any minor nation would have a far more complete tree with less copy paste vehicles. (nothing against China just it was utterly sheiße the way it was introduced in game) 

Edited October 28, 2019 by MadMax_ITA_

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

3 hours ago, stefffff1871 said:

some months ago i would have agreed with you, BUT

1. the italian line is complete trash in my eyes

2. the most produced IAR 81 version is already a premium there so i actually want (a) seperate axis-tree(s) asap.

To say the Italian tree is trash is an understatement, it's a national tragedy. The Italian community full of its purists and fanatics wanted nothing to do with Hungary and as expected they got shafted by Gaijin. I have zero sympathy for them and yet they continue to whine today how Gaijin hates Italy when in reality it's only their fault to blame. I agree a minor axis tree is truly the only way to go at this point.

[PacketlossRedux 595]

28 minutes ago, Private_Wolk said:

To say the Italian tree is trash is an understatement, it's a national tragedy. The Italian community full of its purists and fanatics wanted nothing to do with Hungary and as expected they got shafted by Gaijin. I have zero sympathy for them and yet they continue to whine today how Gaijin hates Italy when in reality it's only their fault to blame. I agree a minor axis tree is truly the only way to go at this point.

lets stop with such valuations that lead to nowhere and just derail the topic.

the problems with the Itallian tech tree is more up to its unfinished state, than available material. Gaijin prefers to pump new modern shill and new and new half finished tech trees( between adding new mechanics like thermal that completelly ruin the game), than making existing ones acceptable. A long standing grief of the community.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Jacky95

[Hadur4 2,108]

I also support the Hungarian tech tree!

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

1 hour ago, Private_Wolk said:

To say the Italian tree is trash is an understatement, it's a national tragedy. The Italian community full of its purists and fanatics wanted nothing to do with Hungary and as expected they got shafted by Gaijin. I have zero sympathy for them and yet they continue to whine today how Gaijin hates Italy when in reality it's only their fault to blame. I agree a minor axis tree is truly the only way to go at this point.

Are you serious? I'm Italian and I'm working on this indipendent tree

The reason Is that Hungary and Italy have too similar vehicles that would not fill each other trees. This means that an Hungarian tree has the same quality and numbers as the Italian does therefore it deserves to be indipendent. First of all let's make Hungary just a single line in the ITT, chose just 6 vehicles to add to the ITT the rest trow them into garbage then we'll talk...if you prefer to never see 20 or so Hungarian vehicles added in game this is tour choice. If you prefer an entire tree just for Hungary then feel free to support us

[stefffff1871 2,448]

13 hours ago, Private_Wolk said:

To say the Italian tree is trash is an understatement, it's a national tragedy. The Italian community full of its purists and fanatics wanted nothing to do with Hungary and as expected they got shafted by Gaijin. I have zero sympathy for them and yet they continue to whine today how Gaijin hates Italy when in reality it's only their fault to blame. I agree a minor axis tree is truly the only way to go at this point.

i am curious. i think we have different reasons to "dislike" the italian tree. so why it is exactly bad in your eyes?

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

16 hours ago, MadMax_ITA_ said:

Are you serious? I'm Italian and I'm working on this indipendent tree

The reason Is that Hungary and Italy have too similar vehicles that would not fill each other trees. This means that an Hungarian tree has the same quality and numbers as the Italian does therefore it deserves to be indipendent. First of all let's make Hungary just a single line in the ITT, chose just 6 vehicles to add to the ITT the rest trow them into garbage then we'll talk...if you prefer to never see 20 or so Hungarian vehicles added in game this is tour choice. If you prefer an entire tree just for Hungary then feel free to support us

Too much similar vehicles, have you seen the Chinese tech tree? I'm not going to derail Darth's thread any further but some of your Italian associates are just stuck in their fantasy worlds. Italy had a chance at partnership with another nation and it failed because the community let national pride impair its good judgement. You threw the Hungarians under the bus when they offered a compromise and the rest is history. I would love Hungary to be represented in-game but part of a larger faction, it simply doesn't have the numbers to be given a full sustaining tree. Send me a PM if you want to continue this conversation.

[PacketlossRedux 595]

51 minutes ago, Private_Wolk said:

.

Since when do players determine Gaijin's development decisions that are heavily directed by the projected financial tendencies these dev decisions create. Dont take the dead man for a walk. 

Its perfectly fine to have an opinion.

 

Regarding the minor axis. You need people doing research for modelling. You would need this from 3-4 countries? Furthermore Finnland is now part of the Swedish tech tree as it is intended to be home of the nordic countries.

So your wish is exponentionaly harder to fulfill than just concentrating on one nations research that is partially done already thanks to Hebime.

 

[stefffff1871 2,448]

i already see the Toldi as a swedish premium tank since its based and the L-60 and gaijin is completly random with deciding where to put a vehicle

[FelvidekiMagyar 26]

 

[FelvidekiMagyar 26]

[Rieskaruisku 506]

How would the historical 44M Tas fare in 5.3? As the prototype was made of low-carbon mild steel, I would see it 0.3 lower with Chi-Ri II as a glass cannon.

[PacketlossRedux 595]

14 hours ago, Rieskaruisku said:

How would the historical 44M Tas fare in 5.3? As the prototype was made of low-carbon mild steel, I would see it 0.3 lower with Chi-Ri II as a glass cannon.

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For armor plates thicker than 75 mm - 100 and 120mm to be exact - Hungary tried to buy the licence of the German armor plates since - to our current knowledge - she didn't have the proper indutrial capacity to build such thick armor plates. These armor plates were meant to be used for the 44.M Tas project. However Germany probably refused to sell the armor licence - as she did many times before. Also, when Hungary was occupied by Germany in March 1944 the Germans constantly gained more and more influence in the Hungarian war industry and started to forbid any "unnecessary developments" since they wanted to use Hungary's materials for their own sake, therefore a project such as the Tas tank which was a completly new design even for Hungary was considered to be an "unnecessary development" in the eyes of Germany. Even tho the Tas project continued which means that it was either accepted by the Germans - which is hardly imaginable - or that it was kept hidden even from them.

 

Since the Hungarian Ministry of Defence ordered a mild steel prototype and a military-quality steel prototype of the Tas tank it's assumed that the problem of the 100 and 120 mm armor plates were somehow solved, if not the Tas project would be delayed because of the lack of armor plates. This can either mean that the Hungarian engineers managed to develop a not yet known 100-120 mm armor plate or that they welded two armor plates together.

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by Jacky95

[MadMax_ITA_ 789]

5 hours ago, Jacky95 said:

 

Probably the latter solution given the fact that Japan had this type of armor as we can see with 2 types of welded plates on low tier tanks but also on the proposed O I tanks said to have hosted 1 75mm plate plus another 75mm plate on top 

[Lord_Booty_Smack 7]

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