Spawn camping

[anyuser 5,136]

OP swedish fighters?
All those swedish fighters got are strong guns, while being outflown in every aspect by so many other planes...

They just had an energy advantage because being higher and/or faster and used it. That can make nearly every plane "OP" if you don't know how to react...

 

If you instead want to be a clay pidgeon

Edited November 14, 2020 by anyuser

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

On 06/11/2020 at 15:47, KentuckyKillaRUS said:

Did we really need to start a new thread about this? Why not just add to the existing one?

Cause the old threads keep getting necro'd...Besides there have been approximately 143,527 comments regarding the "evils"/"joys" of spawn camping and and the "skillz"/"you suck"/"cheater reported" of the spawn camper...

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

The great William Wallace who flew with many of the elite pilots of warthunder once said..." Dive from the spawn and you'll live -- at least a while. And dying in the furball many many times, would you be willing to trade all the deaths from this day to that for one chance, just one chance to come back here and tell those spawn campers that they may camp us, but next time we will side climb!!!

Edited November 17, 2020 by HochgeborenKlown

[CyberNapoleon 599]

They really should do something about spawncamping. It's obviously bad for the game. It is a thing in a lot of other games as well, and in many of those, the developers, instead of having their head in the sand, recognise that spawncamping is indeed a bad thing, and that they should do something about it. So they introduce mechanics to mitigate or prevent it, which is what should happen in War Thunder.

 

Just look at the people defending it. They're objectively making the game less fun, and the thing is, they know this and don't care. As long as they can continue to brainlessly get kills on unsuspecting players in overpowered German or Swedish planes while neglecting to play the objective, that's all good with them. The mental gymnastics required, it's quite a laugh. Just because it's not banned because Gaijin has their head in the sand, that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate that it shouldn't be allowed. Nearly everyone outside of the spawncampers themselves agree that it shouldn't be permitted, measures are taken against it in many other games where it is or has been present. 

[Lexing_ 241]

7 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

They really should do something about spawncamping. It's obviously bad for the game. It is a thing in a lot of other games as well, and in many of those, the developers, instead of having their head in the sand, recognise that spawncamping is indeed a bad thing, and that they should do something about it. So they introduce mechanics to mitigate or prevent it, which is what should happen in War Thunder.

 

Just look at the people defending it. They're objectively making the game less fun, and the thing is, they know this and don't care. As long as they can continue to brainlessly get kills on unsuspecting players in overpowered German or Swedish planes while neglecting to play the objective, that's all good with them. The mental gymnastics required, it's quite a laugh. Just because it's not banned because Gaijin has their head in the sand, that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate that it shouldn't be allowed. Nearly everyone outside of the spawncampers themselves agree that it shouldn't be permitted, measures are taken against it in many other games where it is or has been present. 

“Wise, old fighter pilots look for an early, easy kill, and they don't play fair. They pick a weak one from the pack they're fighting, go in for a quick kill, then blow through the fight" - Chuck Horner, air commander of Desert Shield

[anyuser 5,136]

10 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

Just look at the people defending it. They're objectively making the game less fun, and the thing is, they know this and don't care. As long as they can continue to brainlessly get kills on unsuspecting players in overpowered German or Swedish planes while neglecting to play the objective, that's all good with them. The mental gymnastics required, it's quite a laugh. Just because it's not banned because Gaijin has their head in the sand, that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate that it shouldn't be allowed. Nearly everyone outside of the spawncampers themselves agree that it shouldn't be permitted, measures are taken against it in many other games where it is or has been present. 

If somebody climbs at you until he stalls, shooting in frustration (reducing the speed even more), it is hard to call im "unsuspecting".

Even more if he does so the 3rd time in row.

 

And please name the "overpowerd" swedish planes. All those things got above other planes at their BR are guns.

Expet the T-18 maybe. But I only have seen those attacking stupid fighter pilots who smeled an easy bomber target.

[PARAMI 478]

2 hours ago, anyuser said:

If somebody climbs at you until he stalls, shooting in frustration (reducing the speed even more), it is hard to call im "unsuspecting".

Even more if he does so the 3rd time in row.

 

And please name the "overpowerd" swedish planes. All those things got above other planes at their BR are guns.

Expet the T-18 maybe. But I only have seen those attacking stupid fighter pilots who smeled an easy bomber target.

Pyorremyrsky is pretty nutty. J21s are pretty good fm-wise; pair that with the best machine guns in the game and you have a formidable enemy that can spray you down from 2km away. Guns do make a huge difference in air ab, provided that you can reliably get those guns on target and have decent performance (that's why, obviously, planes like the f82 and the 190 with the 20mm pods aren't great). 

[Kosher_Locust 120]

I'm glad the comments I made some months ago about spawncamping were seen to have some merit. As I'd mentioned bad sportsmanship players turn people away, they released a new COD game last week that was a respin of the original Black Ops.  I liked that game ten years ago and.....already people are sharing videos about players with aimbots.  You guys just suck all the fun out of things and then spit.  Swallow if you're going to be that way.

 

Otherwise I'd stopped commenting about it as it's beating a dead horse, and like a junkie getting his fix the campers swarm in to massage their egos on any post.  If the game is still around years from now it will be the same thing.  I can say lately I haven't seen much of campers, I don't know it's because I'm at a higher BR than the weapon of choice 109G/2 can survive at or just lucky.  I still see guys trying it, most recently two guys in F8F's doing the usual flying high over in a pair, and I zapped them with my F84.  More luck than raging skill but you know.  But the seal clubbing of someone with a 20 to 0 score who never leaves our spawn seems to have gone way down.  Doesn't mean the very next match I won't run into a pair from one of my favorite squadrons wishing to assert their hormone laden male dominance in the least effective way possible, at least until mom yells at them to take the trash out.

 

Since a lot of them have the manufactured victim complex of taking screen captures of their hate mail and posting about it (odd behavior for guys who think they're gaming Gods) the best way to treat a camper is give them static; hardly anyone talks to each in this game anyways.

[CyberNapoleon 599]

8 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

“Wise, old fighter pilots look for an early, easy kill, and they don't play fair. They pick a weak one from the pack they're fighting, go in for a quick kill, then blow through the fight" - Chuck Horner, air commander of Desert Shield

Never said anything about it not being fair. It contributes nothing positive to the game, that's it

 

6 hours ago, anyuser said:

If somebody climbs at you until he stalls, shooting in frustration (reducing the speed even more), it is hard to call im "unsuspecting".

Even more if he does so the 3rd time in row.

 

And please name the "overpowerd" swedish planes. All those things got above other planes at their BR are guns.

Expet the T-18 maybe. But I only have seen those attacking stupid fighter pilots who smeled an easy bomber target.

That's not who I was calling unsuspecting. People spawn in only to get dived on, there's nothing they can really do to counter that.

 

The guns are my primary sticking point, yes. The 13.2mm's are basically 50 cals, which are extremely effective as it is, but better in every single way. So combine that with 20mms like you have on the J21's and the like, and you've got something extremely potent right there.

[Jet_Leno 42]

DIVE OUT. 

 

DO NOT ENGAGE THEM. 

 

I have no respect for campers since it takes no skill and directly makes the game un-fun for other players. 

 

I also have no sympathy for people who feed campers because all you need to do is point your nose down and bring them to the deck, yet SO MANY people will just spawn in again and again and get blown up because the other guy has the energy advantage and knows exactly where you will be... Then they complain and beg for help. Nah, I'll be busy trying to carry the match by going for the actual objectives until I get too annoyed at the 5v1 action and just bounce to another match

 

Campers won't camp if it isn't profitable. Stop feeding it. 

[Lexing_ 241]

15 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

Never said anything about it not being fair. It contributes nothing positive to the game, that's it

 

If it's fair, then it contributes something positive to the game, that's it. Spawn camping isn't fair because energy fighting was never meant to be fair. You were meant to put all the cards in your own hand and kill the opponent as efficiently as possible. Spawn camping is simply the most efficient way of doing that.

15 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

That's not who I was calling unsuspecting. People spawn in only to get dived on, there's nothing they can really do to counter that.

 

The guns are my primary sticking point, yes. The 13.2mm's are basically 50 cals, which are extremely effective as it is, but better in every single way. So combine that with 20mms like you have on the J21's and the like, and you've got something extremely potent right there.

J21s cannot dive past 660-680 kph which means the La-7 can outrun a diving J21 by flying straight. The J21s are not overpowered.

13 hours ago, Jet_Leno said:

DIVE OUT. 

 

DO NOT ENGAGE THEM. 

 

I have no respect for campers since it takes no skill and directly makes the game un-fun for other players. 

Again, no one is obligated to make sure you have fun, that's gaijin's job and they are failing at it. You'd think that they would have done anything at this point to make it harder to do but they haven't, so it's still super easy if you have a bunch of idiots stallclimbing for you. 

 

13 hours ago, Jet_Leno said:

I also have no sympathy for people who feed campers because all you need to do is point your nose down and bring them to the deck, yet SO MANY people will just spawn in again and again and get blown up because the other guy has the energy advantage and knows exactly where you will be... Then they complain and beg for help. Nah, I'll be busy trying to carry the match by going for the actual objectives until I get too annoyed at the 5v1 action and just bounce to another match

 

Campers won't camp if it isn't profitable. Stop feeding it. 

Pretty much this. Don't keep stall climbing for a bf109 or an La-9, it's not worth it. 

[Jet_Leno 42]

39 minutes ago, ____Lexing____ said:

 

Again, no one is obligated to make sure you have fun, that's gaijin's job and they are failing at it. You'd think that they would have done anything at this point to make it harder to do but they haven't, so it's still super easy if you have a bunch of idiots stallclimbing for you. 

 

 

I agree, I take it upon myself to have fun and I don't blame gaijin or other players, though I do think gaijin should add some countermeasures to campers since it's in their own best interest to have as many players enjoy the experience as possible, and many just seem baffled at how to handle them. 

 

I don't care if people do it, I don't hate on them, some people would rather grind with max efficiency than go for actual objectives or help their team directly, or think disrupting spawn is helping their team (only works if the enemy allows it), if that's fun for them, more power to them. For the people not having fun getting gibbed by the campers, I suggest just the opposite approach. Think about how you can use their camping to your team's benefit, and don't worry about your own score or k/d ratio - they are taking themselves out of the actual match, you are free to dive on ground targets or engage their teammates who are playing the map, or if the camper wants YOU, drag him to the deck and call target, chances are someone else on your team would LOVE to take out a spawn camper for ya.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Jet_Leno
clarity

[Lexing_ 241]

1 hour ago, Jet_Leno said:

I agree, I take it upon myself to have fun and I don't blame gaijin or other players, though I do think gaijin should add some countermeasures to campers since it's in their own best interest to have as many players enjoy the experience as possible, and many just seem baffled at how to handle them. 

 

I don't care if people do it, I don't hate on them, some people would rather grind with max efficiency than go for actual objectives or help their team directly, or think disrupting spawn is helping their team (only works if the enemy allows it), if that's fun for them, more power to them. For the people not having fun getting gibbed by the campers, I suggest just the opposite approach. Think about how you can use their camping to your team's benefit, and don't worry about your own score or k/d ratio - they are taking themselves out of the actual match, you are free to dive on ground targets or engage their teammates who are playing the map, or if the camper wants YOU, drag him to the deck and call target, chances are someone else on your team would LOVE to take out a spawn camper for ya.

That's a fair viewpoint and I respect that.

 

However I also think Gaijin is to blame for not linking the Barrel Roll tutorials in the game, I find them to be extremely extremely helpful for newer players in energy management and ACMs (air combat maneuvers). Will link two of the most helpful tutorials:

 

 

[Jet_Leno 42]

I didn't even know those existed lol, thank you for linking them

 

I found this old USAF training video really helpful, he's talking about jet combat, but it's all fundamentals, being aware, keeping them in front of you, energy management, etc. so I found it applicable even in low tier arcade. Cheers, good hunting o7

 

 

 

[CyberNapoleon 599]

10 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

If it's fair, then it contributes something positive to the game, that's it. Spawn camping isn't fair because energy fighting was never meant to be fair. You were meant to put all the cards in your own hand and kill the opponent as efficiently as possible. Spawn camping is simply the most efficient way of doing that.

 

J21s cannot dive past 660-680 kph which means the La-7 can outrun a diving J21 by flying straight. The J21s are not overpowered.

It contributes something for sure - something negative. If it's positive, then, why have other multiplayer games taken steps against it, if it's such a good and wonderful thing? Obviously, because it isn't. Nearly everybody outside of the spawncampers themselves agrees that it shouldn't be allowed. Of course, it's no surprise that the spawncampers themselves will defend it; it's the only way for them to think that they're actually good at the game, when they can attack enemies who have just spawned and stand virtually no chance against them. They're ruining the game, they know it and they don't care. As I said, it's considered a bad thing in other games to the extent that they've done something about it. This should be no different. Gaijin might have their head in the sand on this issue, but I don't. 

 

Do you play the J21 by any chance? People who play overpowered vehicles will often say they're not overpowered. And I've said before, my main objection with Swedish planes in general is the guns, specifically the 13.2mm's, which are laser accurate and capable of tearing through any enemy with little effort, as I'm sure you know. They're essentially .50 cals but even more effective, and .50 cals are more than effective enough already. There's a good reason why they're often used as a spawncamper's vehicle of choice, along with the 109. But if for nothing else, the guns are absolutely absurd. 

 

660-680kph? Are you sure about that?

Edited November 20, 2020 by CyberNapoleon

[Lexing_ 241]

24 minutes ago, CyberNapoleon said:

11 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

 

It contributes something for sure - something negative. If it's positive, then, why have other multiplayer games taken steps against it, if it's such a good and wonderful thing? Obviously, because it isn't. Nearly everybody outside of the spawncampers themselves agrees that it shouldn't be allowed. Of course, it's no surprise that the spawncampers themselves will defend it; it's the only way for them to think that they're actually good at the game, when they can attack enemies who have just spawned and stand virtually no chance against them. They're ruining the game, they know it and they don't care. As I said, it's considered a bad thing in other games to the extent that they've done something about it. This should be no different. Gaijin might have their head in the sand on this issue, but I don't. 

The reason no action has been implemented in Warthunder is because this game was never meant to be fair. You were meant to seize all the advantages and capitalize on them as quickly as possible. That's what happens in warfare, and I do respect gaijin for trying to emulate that (even though a very obvious solution would be two spawns, which is neither gamebreaking nor a feature that could be abused).

27 minutes ago, CyberNapoleon said:

Do you play the J21 by any chance? People who play overpowered vehicles will often say they're not overpowered. And I've said before, my main objection with Swedish planes in general is the guns, specifically the 13.2mm's, which are laser accurate and capable of tearing through any enemy with little effort, as I'm sure you know. They're essentially .50 cals but even more effective, and .50 cals are more than effective enough already. There's a good reason why they're often used as a spawncamper's vehicle of choice, along with the 109. But if for nothing else, the guns are absolutely absurd. 

 

I've been complaining about those guns ever since they've released, except the fact that some certain devs seem very convinced that there's nothing wrong with them. They set fires way too easily and do too much damage for being HMGs. And no, I've never liked the J21. When it was at 3.7 I would pick the P-47D-28 over it any day of the week (thanks gaijin for raising that thing to 4.0 where it suffers against 190Ds)

29 minutes ago, CyberNapoleon said:

660-680kph? Are you sure about that?

Even so, 724kph isn't very fast for a 4.0 plane. The Spitfire Mk 2B can do 840, the La-7 780, the 109 F-4 880, the P-39N 880, the J2M2 850, and the goddamned XP-55 goes 900. 

[CyberNapoleon 599]

9 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

The reason no action has been implemented in Warthunder is because this game was never meant to be fair. You were meant to seize all the advantages and capitalize on them as quickly as possible. That's what happens in warfare, and I do respect gaijin for trying to emulate that (even though a very obvious solution would be two spawns, which is neither gamebreaking nor a feature that could be abused).

I've been complaining about those guns ever since they've released, except the fact that some certain devs seem very convinced that there's nothing wrong with them. They set fires way too easily and do too much damage for being HMGs. And no, I've never liked the J21. When it was at 3.7 I would pick the P-47D-28 over it any day of the week (thanks gaijin for raising that thing to 4.0 where it suffers against 190Ds)

Even so, 724kph isn't very fast for a 4.0 plane. The Spitfire Mk 2B can do 840, the La-7 780, the 109 F-4 880, the P-39N 880, the J2M2 850, and the goddamned XP-55 goes 900. 

Well, it's two teams facing off against each other (the amount of teamwork that actually takes place on a regular basis is debatable, but nonetheless), it's not a real war, I know there's no such thing as a "no spawncamping" rule in war, but this isn't war, this is a game. Particularly, this is arcade. And in arcade, we should be able to make sacrifices for the sake of fun. Spawncamping isn't fun for anyone except those doing it. So I'd be more than willing to sacrifice it, as many other games have done, because they see it for the objectively bad thing that it is. As for multiple spawns, that's actually a good idea, regardless of the issue of spawncamping, it makes sense. We have it for ground battles after all. So I don't see why we can't implement it for air battles - if someone is spawncamping, spawn in the other one. Though I'd like to take more measures than that. It would still be a good start, regardless.

 

So we agree on that then, good to hear. It's arguable that .50 cals might be too effective, but in my view, fine, leave them like that, they're not too problematic. The Swedish ones, however, as I've said, they're basically .50 cals but better, with literally no downsides in comparison. Usually with guns in this game, there are advantages and disadvantages to using different kinds of guns. However, with the Swedish ones, there are only advantages. Nerf them and the J21 will probably otherwise be fine. As for the P-47D, imo it had to move up. Hell, I use it in my French 6.0 lineup, and it does more than fine. Same with my British 4.7 lineup, where it ironically performs better as a 4.0 plane than a lot of British 4.7 ones, so go figure. 

[Lexing_ 241]

2 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

11 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

 

Well, it's two teams facing off against each other (the amount of teamwork that actually takes place on a regular basis is debatable, but nonetheless), it's not a real war, I know there's no such thing as a "no spawncamping" rule in war, but this isn't war, this is a game. Particularly, this is arcade. And in arcade, we should be able to make sacrifices for the sake of fun. Spawncamping isn't fun for anyone except those doing it. So I'd be more than willing to sacrifice it, as many other games have done, because they see it for the objectively bad thing that it is. As for multiple spawns, that's actually a good idea, regardless of the issue of spawncamping, it makes sense. We have it for ground battles after all. So I don't see why we can't implement it for air battles - if someone is spawncamping, spawn in the other one. Though I'd like to take more measures than that. It would still be a good start, regardless.

The thing is, there have been countless people who have wanted more than one spawn, hell, we even have it in tanks so why not for planes? It still punishes the prophangers but rewards the people who play smart. IMO though, after being on both sides of it, that it really depends on the distance between them. For example 2 km between the spawns won't do much, I personally want about 4km between the two. However I agree, spawncamping is a huge cheese but is relative to what you'd see in warfare, so I'd be fine with it staying AS LONG AS it can be controlled. 

 

2 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

 

So we agree on that then, good to hear. It's arguable that .50 cals might be too effective, but in my view, fine, leave them like that, they're not too problematic. The Swedish ones, however, as I've said, they're basically .50 cals but better, with literally no downsides in comparison. Usually with guns in this game, there are advantages and disadvantages to using different kinds of guns. However, with the Swedish ones, there are only advantages. Nerf them and the J21 will probably otherwise be fine. As for the P-47D, imo it had to move up. Hell, I use it in my French 6.0 lineup, and it does more than fine. Same with my British 4.7 lineup, where it ironically performs better as a 4.0 plane than a lot of British 4.7 ones, so go figure. 

IMO for the P-47Ds they don't really need to be above 3.7. Since the J2M2 can outclimb, outturn, and keep up with the D-28 while being 3.7 I think the D-28 being at 3.7 is fair. I do agree with you however that the 47s are superior to many 4.7-5.0 planes, but it's more of the fact that certain aircraft are just woefully overtiered, such as the F6F-5N or the F4U-1C.

[Caralampio 90]

Swede planes have one big thing, the 13.2 mg's which fire farther and do more damage. The lead target appears at a longer distance. Other than that they seem to be comparable to others. They are good of course but I think for instance that the French are better overall. They do seem to have a charm of sorts, I remember complaining about them ever since I confronted J8 biplanes. I think maybe the better players choose to fly them and that may influence their reputation.

Now the Bf 109's are another story. They are good all around, they can dogfight, they can boom, and they can energy. Not invincible but they do have an edge. The F4 is all the rage but IMO it is comparable to the F1 and F2, or even the E's. Heck, even the B is a wonderful plane, although underpowered. 

[CyberNapoleon 599]

18 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

The thing is, there have been countless people who have wanted more than one spawn, hell, we even have it in tanks so why not for planes? It still punishes the prophangers but rewards the people who play smart. IMO though, after being on both sides of it, that it really depends on the distance between them. For example 2 km between the spawns won't do much, I personally want about 4km between the two. However I agree, spawncamping is a huge cheese but is relative to what you'd see in warfare, so I'd be fine with it staying AS LONG AS it can be controlled. 

 

IMO for the P-47Ds they don't really need to be above 3.7. Since the J2M2 can outclimb, outturn, and keep up with the D-28 while being 3.7 I think the D-28 being at 3.7 is fair. I do agree with you however that the 47s are superior to many 4.7-5.0 planes, but it's more of the fact that certain aircraft are just woefully overtiered, such as the F6F-5N or the F4U-1C.

Yes, I agree, and one of the reasons we have it for tanks is if there's an enemy sniping in, instead of spawning in to certain death, you can choose the other one. Some maps are still poorly designed this way, but that's another topic entirely. So multiple spawns, two at least, maybe three, should definitely be considered. Even outside of spawncamping, it makes sense IMO. Having people all spawn in at the same place for the entire game isn't exactly.... dynamic. And as a bonus it should help with spawncamping, maybe it will always happen, fine, but I'm happy if everything that is conceivably possible to do against it has been done, and multiple spawns would be a good start.

 

In general, a lot of BR's for air arcade don't really make sense. There are so many vehicles that are at wildly different BR's despite not actually being all that different, or in the worst case, a vehicle that's objectively better than another, yet at a substantially lower BR. Like we're talking about with the P-47D and British aircraft in particular several BR steps higher, and still performing worse (I'm sure this is the case for other aircraft as well, but this is just what I have experience with)

[Lexing_ 241]

7 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

Yes, I agree, and one of the reasons we have it for tanks is if there's an enemy sniping in, instead of spawning in to certain death, you can choose the other one. Some maps are still poorly designed this way, but that's another topic entirely. So multiple spawns, two at least, maybe three, should definitely be considered. Even outside of spawncamping, it makes sense IMO. Having people all spawn in at the same place for the entire game isn't exactly.... dynamic. And as a bonus it should help with spawncamping, maybe it will always happen, fine, but I'm happy if everything that is conceivably possible to do against it has been done, and multiple spawns would be a good start.

 

The problem with 2 spawns I can see is if we get two fast bombers (say the B18B) and send them off in opposite directions, it would be nearly impossible to intercept both. That's why I think bombers should only have one spawn; If you spawn a bomber when you know there is someone near your spawn, that's on you. But for fighters and attackers imo it makes perfect sense. 

7 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

In general, a lot of BR's for air arcade don't really make sense. There are so many vehicles that are at wildly different BR's despite not actually being all that different, or in the worst case, a vehicle that's objectively better than another, yet at a substantially lower BR. Like we're talking about with the P-47D and British aircraft in particular several BR steps higher, and still performing worse (I'm sure this is the case for other aircraft as well, but this is just what I have experience with)

Pretty much. We have the 109 F-4 which is objectively the single best prop fighter in the game at the same BR as the Firefly FR. Mk V, one of the objectively worst fighters BR for BR. The 109 F-4 outclimbs the bf109 G-2, outturns it, outruns it, all of that when the G-2 doesn't have gunpods. The only conceivable planes that are able to beat the 109 F-4 consistently are the J2M2 (provided the 109 pilot lets his guard down and lets the J2M get above him) and the Bf 109 K-4 which is fat and can't turn to save its life.



However, don't get me wrong. If your entire team is slaughtered by one or two spawn campers you have no one to blame but yourselves. You had the numbers advantage and you could've chosen to dive away instead of prophanging.

Edited November 21, 2020 by ____Lexing____

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

On 18/11/2020 at 02:40, CyberNapoleon said:

They really should do something about spawncamping. It's obviously bad for the game. It is a thing in a lot of other games as well, and in many of those, the developers, instead of having their head in the sand, recognise that spawncamping is indeed a bad thing, and that they should do something about it. So they introduce mechanics to mitigate or prevent it, which is what should happen in War Thunder.

 

Just look at the people defending it. They're objectively making the game less fun, and the thing is, they know this and don't care. As long as they can continue to brainlessly get kills on unsuspecting players in overpowered German or Swedish planes while neglecting to play the objective, that's all good with them. The mental gymnastics required, it's quite a laugh. Just because it's not banned because Gaijin has their head in the sand, that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate that it shouldn't be allowed. Nearly everyone outside of the spawncampers themselves agree that it shouldn't be permitted, measures are taken against it in many other games where it is or has been present. 

1) "They really should do something about spawncamping."..."They" don't need to do anything, "You" need to learn how to climb...

2) " It's obviously bad for the game."...It is obviously bad for those who willfully ignore the fact that enemy fighters are overhead because "You" did not do something per 1)...

3) "They're objectively making the game less fun, and the thing is, they know this and don't care."..."We" are having fun, are "We" supposed to voluntarily stop having fun because you don't like our version of fun??

4) "As long as they can continue to brainlessly get kills on unsuspecting players in overpowered German or Swedish planes while neglecting to play the objective, that's all good with them."  If "We" are so brainless, how come you don't seem to be able to stop us, surely the superior mind should be able to defeat the mindless hoards of zombie like SpawnCampers...Also, "We/I" use a wide variety of nations to camp you, it gets boring flying the same plane for a 1000 missions...

5) No measures need to be taken in Air AB, you spawn in at 75% of your max speed so it is not like "We/I" are hiding behind a tree with a .50 Barrett shooting you the minute you respawn while you are just standing there...Tonks have a protected zone because they are so large and slow they need one...You people never climb and that is what wrecks you...Your bombers get slaughtered in part because they fly straight across the map on suicide runs and their bombers are left free and alone because you won't climb and kill them...Then you complain because someone(s) on the other side takes out your bombers and prevents you from killing theirs and cry about SpawnCampers...Being camped is your fault, you won't climb and defend your bombers, you won't climb and kill their bombers, you spawn and dive into the mud repeatedly, then you cry about the brainless (I laugh at this characterization since I know many of these "Campers" and they have won multiple 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 tournaments) campers wrecking your "fun"...

Edited November 21, 2020 by HochgeborenKlown

[Krunkova 7]

Absolutely detest those xxxxxxx that spawncamp.

 

  There is a simple fix to the issue.

Either 

1  When you kill an opponent in the spawn zone, or near it- you instead die and all your kills are awarded to the player you just killed.  

 

Or :

 

2 Every new plane that spawns in is 1 km ABOVE the spawn camper.

 

 

That way, if you spawn camp you loose EVERYTHING and you screw over your team

 

 

Actually , come to think about it - I would implement BOTH.

 

 

Spawn camping is cheating.    You can talk about counter measures - but it is still cheating.  I wanted to actually spend some serious money on the game- help the developers, but there is no point in doing it if they cannot fix fundamental parts of the game. 

[CyberNapoleon 599]

9 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

The problem with 2 spawns I can see is if we get two fast bombers (say the B18B) and send them off in opposite directions, it would be nearly impossible to intercept both. That's why I think bombers should only have one spawn; If you spawn a bomber when you know there is someone near your spawn, that's on you. But for fighters and attackers imo it makes perfect sense. 

Pretty much. We have the 109 F-4 which is objectively the single best prop fighter in the game at the same BR as the Firefly FR. Mk V, one of the objectively worst fighters BR for BR. The 109 F-4 outclimbs the bf109 G-2, outturns it, outruns it, all of that when the G-2 doesn't have gunpods. The only conceivable planes that are able to beat the 109 F-4 consistently are the J2M2 (provided the 109 pilot lets his guard down and lets the J2M get above him) and the Bf 109 K-4 which is fat and can't turn to save its life.



However, don't get me wrong. If your entire team is slaughtered by one or two spawn campers you have no one to blame but yourselves. You had the numbers advantage and you could've chosen to dive away instead of prophanging.

Bombers already have separate spawns anyway, it shouldn't a problem to just have them keep the one. 

 

Then you've got the Firebrand, which is at an even higher BR than the Firefly by 0.3, and it's even worse! Air AB BR's need a massive revamp, but unfortunately Gaijin doesn't seem to care an awful lot about AFAB. Oh well.

 

I always do dive away. But my points still stand, they shouldn't be able to do it at all. 

9 hours ago, HochgeborenKlown said:

1) "They really should do something about spawncamping."..."They" don't need to do anything, "You" need to learn how to climb...

2) " It's obviously bad for the game."...It is obviously bad for those who willfully ignore the fact that enemy fighters are overhead because "You" did not do something per 1)...

3) "They're objectively making the game less fun, and the thing is, they know this and don't care."..."We" are having fun, are "We" supposed to voluntarily stop having fun because you don't like our version of fun??

4) "As long as they can continue to brainlessly get kills on unsuspecting players in overpowered German or Swedish planes while neglecting to play the objective, that's all good with them."  If "We" are so brainless, how come you don't seem to be able to stop us, surely the superior mind should be able to defeat the mindless hoards of zombie like SpawnCampers...Also, "We/I" use a wide variety of nations to camp you, it gets boring flying the same plane for a 1000 missions...

5) No measures need to be taken in Air AB, you spawn in at 75% of your max speed so it is not like "We/I" are hiding behind a tree with a .50 Barrett shooting you the minute you respawn while you are just standing there...Tonks have a protected zone because they are so large and slow they need one...You people never climb and that is what wrecks you...Your bombers get slaughtered in part because they fly straight across the map on suicide runs and their bombers are left free and alone because you won't climb and kill them...Then you complain because someone(s) on the other side takes out your bombers and prevents you from killing theirs and cry about SpawnCampers...Being camped is your fault, you won't climb and defend your bombers, you won't climb and kill their bombers, you spawn and dive into the mud repeatedly, then you cry about the brainless (I laugh at this characterization since I know many of these "Campers" and they have won multiple 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 tournaments) campers wrecking your "fun"...

Lol, you proved everything that I just said about spawncampers and spawncamping to be right. Well done!

1) What sort of statement is that? Of course they don't have to do anything. If there's an overpowered vehicle at a certain BR, they don't need to do anything about it. But they should, right? And learn to climb? The thing to do with spawncampers is to dive, not to climb. If you try to climb and engage, you have next to no chance.

2) See my point? Spawncampers are doing something that definitely is bad for the game. You can spin it all you want, no degree of mental gymnastics is gonna change this. 

3) Lots of people have lots of definitions of fun that are objectively wrong. Looks like you're one of them. Some people think cheating is fun, should we let them do that? I wouldn't want to make them stop having fun because I disagree with it now, would I? No, this is ridiculous. 

4) "How come you don't seem to be able to stop us" lol, I'm losing braincells just reading this "argument". If you're spawncamping, you literally have all the cards in your deck. There's nothing that the enemy fighter who's just spawned can do against you. This isn't rocket science. 

5) Of course people who do spawncamp will say nothing needs to be done against it. How else will they pad their stats and increase the size of their internet ego? Perhaps they are compensating for something. Plus, I don't know if you know this, it looks like you don't, but in many air arcade matches, the objective (i.e. ground targets or airfields) is on the ground. So you can do the math on that one.

[Lexing_ 241]

16 hours ago, Krunkova said:

Absolutely detest those xxxxxxx that spawncamp.

 

  There is a simple fix to the issue.

Either 

1  When you kill an opponent in the spawn zone, or near it- you instead die and all your kills are awarded to the player you just killed.  

 

Or :

 

2 Every new plane that spawns in is 1 km ABOVE the spawn camper.

 

 

That way, if you spawn camp you loose EVERYTHING and you screw over your team

 

 

Actually , come to think about it - I would implement BOTH.

 

 

Spawn camping is cheating.    You can talk about counter measures - but it is still cheating.  I wanted to actually spend some serious money on the game- help the developers, but there is no point in doing it if they cannot fix fundamental parts of the game. 

Let's just say buddy, this isn't going to work. It's going to prevent escorts or bombers from infiltrating enemy airspace which effectively limits a team to their side of the map.

11 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

Bombers already have separate spawns anyway, it shouldn't a problem to just have them keep the one. 

 

Then you've got the Firebrand, which is at an even higher BR than the Firefly by 0.3, and it's even worse! Air AB BR's need a massive revamp, but unfortunately Gaijin doesn't seem to care an awful lot about AFAB. Oh well.

 

I always do dive away. But my points still stand, they shouldn't be able to do it at all. 

The reason I think it should be allowed to happen is because 90% of the complaints stem from pure stupidity. Who are you gonna blame for stalling in front of a 190? Him firing his guns? From what I've seen if the majority of air ab players would just grow a brain and side climb in opposite directions spawn camping would become hell. And I've read accounts from war, none of which includes a part where the writer urges the pilot to play fair. Spawn camping is efficient because it was designed from the ground up to take advantage of the spawning system and to put all the cards in the camper's hands, and because I personally don't see too big of a difference between Boom and zooming the battlefield and spawn camping (In neither scenario does your target have a chance to reverse you if you play your energy right) I think spawn camping, when your entire team is stall climbing and disregarding energy, should be allowed. You shouldn't be unpunished if you point your nose directly up in a combat zone. 

11 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

1) What sort of statement is that? Of course they don't have to do anything. If there's an overpowered vehicle at a certain BR, they don't need to do anything about it. But they should, right? And learn to climb? The thing to do with spawncampers is to dive, not to climb. If you try to climb and engage, you have next to no chance.

I think what Klown meant was that teams need to begin climbing at the beginning of the match instead of bringing P-47s with bombs and rockets first. Of course when a camper is nearby climbing is the worst thing you can do. 

11 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

2) See my point? Spawncampers are doing something that definitely is bad for the game. You can spin it all you want, no degree of mental gymnastics is gonna change this. 

My problem with this is again, Gaijin is being incompetent. Give players the tools to combat it? haha no spotting system go woosh. You can't even see a red dot near the spawn half the time, and the fact that fighters and attackers only get one spawn makes it very easy to predict where they are going and position yourself to intercept. However, if you see someone hanging above the spawn daring you to go up, its kind of a bad idea to chase him upwards; those guys have no right to complain.

11 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

3) Lots of people have lots of definitions of fun that are objectively wrong. Looks like you're one of them. Some people think cheating is fun, should we let them do that? I wouldn't want to make them stop having fun because I disagree with it now, would I? No, this is ridiculous. 

That's true, however this definition of fun does comply with the game. We are punishing mistakes that players make, such as flying in a straight line for up to 20 seconds or trying to stallclimb in a firebrand. By removing spawn camping entirely with direct measures instead of giving, say two or three spawns to every map, you eliminate a large portion of WW2-Korean era tactics. I'd argue that even now an auto detection system would be nice, where if there is an enemy within 4km of the spawn in all directions, it generates a pop-up asking if you really want to spawn in. That combined with multiple spawns would be a welcome change, just because now spawn camping in the traditional sense of griefing is gone (been spawncamped in tanks before, not very fun).

11 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

4) "How come you don't seem to be able to stop us" lol, I'm losing braincells just reading this "argument". If you're spawncamping, you literally have all the cards in your deck. There's nothing that the enemy fighter who's just spawned can do against you. This isn't rocket science. 

Basically this, but remember giving the opponent a chance is the very best way to lose as many planes as quickly as possible. 

11 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

 

5) Of course people who do spawncamp will say nothing needs to be done against it. How else will they pad their stats and increase the size of their internet ego? Perhaps they are compensating for something. Plus, I don't know if you know this, it looks like you don't, but in many air arcade matches, the objective (i.e. ground targets or airfields) is on the ground. So you can do the math on that one.

Yes, they are on the ground. But the planes need to get close to them first. And if they intend to interfere with friendly bombers I will make sure they don't. 

Except for airfield dom, that mode is pure fun.