Spawn camping

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

20 hours ago, CyberNapoleon said:

Bombers already have separate spawns anyway, it shouldn't a problem to just have them keep the one. 

 

Then you've got the Firebrand, which is at an even higher BR than the Firefly by 0.3, and it's even worse! Air AB BR's need a massive revamp, but unfortunately Gaijin doesn't seem to care an awful lot about AFAB. Oh well.

 

I always do dive away. But my points still stand, they shouldn't be able to do it at all. 

Lol, you proved everything that I just said about spawncampers and spawncamping to be right. Well done!

1) What sort of statement is that? Of course they don't have to do anything. If there's an overpowered vehicle at a certain BR, they don't need to do anything about it. But they should, right? And learn to climb? The thing to do with spawncampers is to dive, not to climb. If you try to climb and engage, you have next to no chance.

2) See my point? Spawncampers are doing something that definitely is bad for the game. You can spin it all you want, no degree of mental gymnastics is gonna change this. 

3) Lots of people have lots of definitions of fun that are objectively wrong. Looks like you're one of them. Some people think cheating is fun, should we let them do that? I wouldn't want to make them stop having fun because I disagree with it now, would I? No, this is ridiculous. 

4) "How come you don't seem to be able to stop us" lol, I'm losing braincells just reading this "argument". If you're spawncamping, you literally have all the cards in your deck. There's nothing that the enemy fighter who's just spawned can do against you. This isn't rocket science. 

5) Of course people who do spawncamp will say nothing needs to be done against it. How else will they pad their stats and increase the size of their internet ego? Perhaps they are compensating for something. Plus, I don't know if you know this, it looks like you don't, but in many air arcade matches, the objective (i.e. ground targets or airfields) is on the ground. So you can do the math on that one.

1)"And learn to climb? The thing to do with spawncampers is to dive, not to climb. If you try to climb and engage, you have next to no chance."...You climb from the start or did you think that the "campers" just sat around having tea before teleporting above your spawn...You people never climb but you sure cry a lot...

2)"See my point? Spawncampers are doing something that definitely is bad for the game. You can spin it all you want, no degree of mental gymnastics is gonna change this."...See above and start climbing from the start instead of whining about it all the time...If you are not in an F-4 or J2M2, side climb...It isn't that hard...

3) "Lots of people have lots of definitions of fun that are objectively wrong. Looks like you're one of them. Some people think cheating is fun, should we let them do that? I wouldn't want to make them stop having fun because I disagree with it now, would I? No, this is ridiculous."...Ahhh, so fun is only based on your definition...Bummer for you, cause I like climbing and killing people like you, it's alot of fun for me and you don't seem to be able to figure out how to stop me from having fun...

4)4) "How come you don't seem to be able to stop us" lol, I'm losing braincells just reading this "argument". If you're spawncamping, you literally have all the cards in your deck. There's nothing that the enemy fighter who's just spawned can do against you. This isn't rocket science."....Apparently it is rocket science for you...I have been run out of camps and chased down multiple times, thing is I don't just immediately zoom climb back at the ones who ran me off...Your loss of braincells is probably why you can't figure this out...So sorry...

5)"5) Of course people who do spawncamp will say nothing needs to be done against it. How else will they pad their stats and increase the size of their internet ego? Perhaps they are compensating for something. Plus, I don't know if you know this, it looks like you don't, but in many air arcade matches, the objective (i.e. ground targets or airfields) is on the ground. So you can do the math on that one."...So triggered about stats when I no one has said a word about them...As far as padding stats hard to pad being shot down over 9,000 times and I keep my ego on the table beside me...I am fully aware of what the majority of objectives are, that's why I target all your bombers and kill all your fighters who are trying to shoot my bombers...If I have help it makes it even easier to cover my bombers and your bombers taste delicious...Unfortunately I seem to be put on teams with relentlessly stupid people who spawn, dive, get killed in the furball and repeat until the match is lost...They don't seem to understand that if our bombers are slaughtered their little machine guns will not take out bases and tanks, and since they didn't climb the other teams bombers have free reign to just pound us to jelly...Seems you don't understand the relationship between climbing from the start, your teams bombers living, their teams bombers dying and winning the match...

[PARAMI 478]

On 20/11/2020 at 11:13, ____Lexing____ said:

IMO for the P-47Ds they don't really need to be above 3.7. Since the J2M2 can outclimb, outturn, and keep up with the D-28 while being 3.7 I think the D-28 being at 3.7 is fair. I do agree with you however that the 47s are superior to many 4.7-5.0 planes, but it's more of the fact that certain aircraft are just woefully overtiered, such as the F6F-5N or the F4U-1C.

That's less of a testament of the P47 not being good, but more of the J2M2 being the best prop at its BR in the game. Both can easily be uptiered and be perfectly fine. The D28 is better than the N15 which sits at 5.0, and I'd rate the J2M2 above the higher tier J2Ms at 5.3-6.0, which I'd say are fairly balanced where they're at. 

 

In a perfect world, I'd bump the P47 D25 to 4.3 and the D28 to 4.7, and the J2M2 to 5.3 or 5.7. The ultimate monkey plane, the 109 F4, can also be banished to 5.0 and I wouldn't shed a tear. 

 

And yes, there are some very overtiered planes. The F4U 1C and F6F5N belong no higher than 4.0. Even there, they'd be mediocre. Ultimately, a lot of this comes down to flight models. If your fm is bad, then the best you can do is rely on raw performance and play in a linear fashion. 

[Lexing_ 241]

11 hours ago, PARAMI said:

That's less of a testament of the P47 not being good, but more of the J2M2 being the best prop at its BR in the game. Both can easily be uptiered and be perfectly fine. The D28 is better than the N15 which sits at 5.0, and I'd rate the J2M2 above the higher tier J2Ms at 5.3-6.0, which I'd say are fairly balanced where they're at. 

To be honest here, I disagree. The J2M2 has one weakness which is inability to hold speed. This means, unlike the 109 F-4, the J2 has to pull off after one attack to avoid losing energy, in addition to less favorable high speed climb rate. However the J2M2 is still absurd and should be no lower than 4.3 at the minimum. Being at 3.7, it can club people all the way down to the last Buffalo which doesn't even stand a chance in any circumstance.

12 hours ago, PARAMI said:

In a perfect world, I'd bump the P47 D25 to 4.3 and the D28 to 4.7, and the J2M2 to 5.3 or 5.7. The ultimate monkey plane, the 109 F4, can also be banished to 5.0 and I wouldn't shed a tear. 

 

D-25 is already 4.0, and even there the La-7 beats the hell out of it. I'd personally put the D-25 at 3.7 and the D-28 at 4.0 if the offending planes (that being the j2m2 and 109 f4) were moved up as you suggested.

12 hours ago, PARAMI said:

And yes, there are some very overtiered planes. The F4U 1C and F6F5N belong no higher than 4.0. Even there, they'd be mediocre. Ultimately, a lot of this comes down to flight models. If your fm is bad, then the best you can do is rely on raw performance and play in a linear fashion. 

Pretty much. For example the Yak-9U is literally the Yak-9P but at 4.0, with guns that are arguably even stronger. Same thing with the Yak-3 and 3P. If you want to play a competitive plane, the 3 has arguably better guns than the 3P, while being at 4.0 instead of the 3P's 5.3. We see this AGAIN with the J2M2 and the J2M3. The J2M2 just gives no reason to fly the J2M3 because the M2 has an even better flight model than the 3 (which already has one of the strongest flight models even at 5.0-6.0). The La-7 vs La-7B, the 109 F-4 vs 109 G-2. The lower tiered planes just have the same flight model but at a BR where the flight model can dominate.

[PARAMI 478]

On 23/11/2020 at 12:05, ____Lexing____ said:

To be honest here, I disagree. The J2M2 has one weakness which is inability to hold speed. This means, unlike the 109 F-4, the J2 has to pull off after one attack to avoid losing energy, in addition to less favorable high speed climb rate. However the J2M2 is still absurd and should be no lower than 4.3 at the minimum. Being at 3.7, it can club people all the way down to the last Buffalo which doesn't even stand a chance in any circumstance.

D-25 is already 4.0, and even there the La-7 beats the hell out of it. I'd personally put the D-25 at 3.7 and the D-28 at 4.0 if the offending planes (that being the j2m2 and 109 f4) were moved up as you suggested.

J2M2 has better MER than the F4. Its FM is superior to the F4's in every way--you can test that in a duel, where the J2 will smash the F4 easily every time (If you don't trust my or Paddan's ability to characterize a plane's flight characteristics, go try it yourself). Its only weakness is its damage model. Otherwise, it's untouchable. I'd even argue that the guns are better than the F4's. 

 

As for the P47, that's patently untrue. La7 is an easy opponent--just abuse your dive speed and high altitude performance. It's going to be a prolonged fight, but the La7 poses no true threat to you, as you can just force BnZs and headons until you spray them down. Pro tip--Russian planes have horrible dive speeds. You can literally just throw your plane down and run away with no repercussions. They'll top out at around 750, and you can just start equalizing your energy states from that point and gain and advantage. The P47s shouldn't be able to energy fight in the capacity that they do right now; they need tougher competition where a pilot is forced to use their noggin and explore their planes' advantages over others. The Thunderbolt is meant to be a linear BnZ plane; it's meant to climb to space, and utilize its insane top speed and heavy airframe instead of being able to dance above the enemy spawn like some sort of overweight F4.The way it is right now, the P47 can play to its disadvantages and still do fine. However, I will say that the P47's placement doesn't really bother me, as good P47 pilots are a rarity and most just end up taking out gts. 

[willcliff 116]

Honestly, I think the P-47 is fine at 4.0, where it can still beat most anything that isn’t a J2M or F-4. These planes crush everything, just because they beat the 47 doesn’t mean that the thunderbolt is overtiered, at least the D-28. I honestly can think of many others planes at 4.0 that would pose a real threat. Maybe a B-25? 

About J2M vs. F4, I will still prefer the 109. Sure, the J2M does climb and turn better at a a lower br, but the F-4 has a much stronger damage model, is a bit faster, has better high alt performance and has a gun which for me at least is more accurate and more reliable when you get it on target. Also, the J2M’s roll rate feels a bit stiff and doesn’t really improve much with rudder, which is a bit off putting. But overall, both of these are ridiculously good, and it’s hard to say which one is a bigger clubber. Honestly we need a battle rating revamp more than anything.  

[Lexing_ 241]

16 hours ago, PARAMI said:

J2M2 has better MER than the F4. Its FM is superior to the F4's in every way--you can test that in a duel, where the J2 will smash the F4 easily every time (If you don't trust my or Paddan's ability to characterize a plane's flight characteristics, go try it yourself). Its only weakness is its damage model. Otherwise, it's untouchable. I'd even argue that the guns are better than the F4's. 

 

Ok, I ran a speed test, and you do appear to be right. After a dive to 800kph the J2 levels out with wep at about 570 kph, while the F-4 levels out at 560. Of course, the damage model still counts for something but its not a big issue unless there's an Me-264 with their laser gunners, but I'd still argue the single cannon on the F-4 has a much more reliable damage output and is easier to aim. I personally have always struggled to get kills with the J2 unless they get slow. I understand that might just me though.

8 minutes ago, willcliff said:

Honestly, I think the P-47 is fine at 4.0, where it can still beat most anything that isn’t a J2M or F-4. These planes crush everything, just because they beat the 47 doesn’t mean that the thunderbolt is overtiered, at least the D-28. I honestly can think of many others planes at 4.0 that would pose a real threat. Maybe a B-25? 

About J2M vs. F4, I will still prefer the 109. Sure, the J2M does climb and turn better at a a lower br, but the F-4 has a much stronger damage model, is a bit faster, has better high alt performance and has a gun which for me at least is more accurate and more reliable when you get it on target. Also, the J2M’s roll rate feels a bit stiff and doesn’t really improve much with rudder, which is a bit off putting. But overall, both of these are ridiculously good, and it’s hard to say which one is a bigger clubber. Honestly we need a battle rating revamp more than anything.  

Yeah, and I agree because the F-4 and J2 are just compressing lowtier battle ratings. The J2 has better performance than a P-47D in almost every single metric, yet is pushed into a similar battle rating position.

But I personally do think the J2M2 isn't the same thing as a 109. The J2 is what happens when you cram a P-47 engine into an airframe the size of a 109, while I just think the F-4 is modeled incorrectly. In a perfect world I would buff shvaks, fix the Yak-9U's rudder, and fix the spitfires' energy retention, but let's face it that isn't ever gonna happen.

Edited November 25, 2020 by ____Lexing____

[Xx8xX 167]

cant beat them just join them overall i think this is one of the many issues that remain in the game from start its nice doing 30 kills in one battle for some ppl ruining the game for 15 ppl just loop in base and taking kills .

 

and some ppl over do it exessive ruining the game so for the smart ones here defending them stop it seriusly have ppl with 600 battle and 6000+ kills in games and the bonus is huge gains for being Di,,,, in Air Battle

 

for the ground i will sey 10 sec respawn protection its a joke here its this same many ppl just try to go near enemy base that defeat the purpose of the game over all so plz consider other ppl and new players because moste of them are Marhals with max out crews in low BR games.