AB Air Ground Attack Battles are far to short

[AscallonX 60]

At the moment a lot of Air AB in Ground Attack last only a few minutes. Especially on flat maps like Poland or Mozdok where u can kill a lot of light targets (armored cars, howitzers) in clusters.

 

After about 3-4 minutes 80-90% of tickets are gone on both sides. And this without any bases got destroyed. So arcade gots even more about the furball in the center of the map in low altitude.

 

Duration of my last 5 battles in Air AB:

Poland, ground strike, 5:42 , small flat map

China, Mountain riddge, Frontline, 13:30

Ireland, ground strike, 6:12 , small map

Guam, ground strike , 9:12  (much bigger maps then the others)

Moscow  ground strike,  5:58 , small flat map

 

 

it is now useless to.

 

• go to bomb bases
• hunt bombers or climb in a fighter
• escort bombers
• any use of tactics, energy fighting, etc

 

Only small pillboxes and lots of light targets make bigger bombs (500kg/1k lb) useless. Now well aiming with bombs is not required anymore. Just throw a bunch of small bunch in the direction of clusters of armored cars.

 

Overall my game experience is much more boring then before.

 

To solve this some (easy) changes imo should be done:

 

• raise number of tickets!
• replace some small pillboxes by big ones
• recalculate numbers of light targets compared to hard targets

 

In generall i like the new mechanics with AI attackers and the loss of tickets if losing plane! But it is not well balanced atm.

 

[Touched_Grass 758]

The reason the tickets bleed so fast is because light vehicles such as armored cars and artillery were added to the ticket bleed in all maps.

 

If Gaijin just revert this feature we'd be back to the longer games we like. 

 

But yes, games are way too short, it feels like 1.59 again.

[Dragon_Ace 11]

On 05/12/2020 at 11:33, AscallonX said:

At the moment a lot of Air AB in Ground Attack last only a few minutes. Especially on flat maps like Poland or Mozdok where u can kill a lot of light targets (armored cars, howitzers) in clusters.

 

After about 3-4 minutes 80-90% of tickets are gone on both sides. And this without any bases got destroyed. So arcade gots even more about the furball in the center of the map in low altitude.

 

Duration of my last 5 battles in Air AB:

Poland, ground strike, 5:42 , small flat map

China, Mountain riddge, Frontline, 13:30

Ireland, ground strike, 6:12 , small map

Guam, ground strike , 9:12  (much bigger maps then the others)

Moscow  ground strike,  5:58 , small flat map

 

 

it is now useless to.

 

• go to bomb bases
• hunt bombers or climb in a fighter
• escort bombers
• any use of tactics, energy fighting, etc

 

Only small pillboxes and lots of light targets make bigger bombs (500kg/1k lb) useless. Now well aiming with bombs is not required anymore. Just throw a bunch of small bunch in the direction of clusters of armored cars.

 

Overall my game experience is much more boring then before.

 

To solve this some (easy) changes imo should be done:

 

• raise number of tickets!
• replace some small pillboxes by big ones
• recalculate numbers of light targets compared to hard targets

 

In generall i like the new mechanics with AI attackers and the loss of tickets if losing plane! But it is not well balanced atm.

 

Agreed way to short and way to many participants, Would be much better if they were smaller and lasted longer , Also please remove all the aim bot and esp users I paid alot on money for my account to play against legit players not hacks . 

[Touched_Grass 758]

7 hours ago, Dragon_Ace said:

Agreed way to short and way to many participants, Would be much better if they were smaller and lasted longer , Also please remove all the aim bot and esp users I paid alot on money for my account to play against legit players not hacks . 

There are no cheats or hacks in air AB.

 

I think the number of players at 16 v 16 is good, games do need to be longer though.

[FrizFreleng 951]

Yeah, I posted about this a few days ago. I usually play RB but started dipping back into Arcade games because Gaijin isn't giving a X2 modifier in the BattlePass challenges, and couldn't believe how much they'd changed. The games seem to end almost as soon as they begin, so not only does it make strategy pointless, it also makes it nearly impossible to achieve any task involving, say Hero of the Sky (12 kills). 

 

Part of it is having soft targets contribute to ticket bleed, but I think they accelerated ticket bleed period. I won a game a few hours ago with just half the ground targets destroyed. 

 

Gaijin, please revert! You fixed something that wasn't broken, and now it really is broken!

[_Muzz 7]

Totally agree. I literally just played a game that must have lasted just a few minutes. I had time to use 1 aircraft, respawn, then the game suddenly ended. I did notice right at the start that 1 enemy player got a chain of minor ground kills. That must have done it for our tickets! So glad I used a +150% booster for that match... XD

Edited December 7, 2020 by _Muzz
Spelling

[Thodin 6,784]

They could do it like RB, just with arcade rules. Tbh, this air event is embarassing^^

[FORNAX_USA 71]

Short games are obviously detrimental to the gameplay as seen in previous patches. This is a change that didn't need to be made and should be reverted.

[Exelcia 118]

Ground strike games should be reverted to only have ticket bleed for destroying hard targets and bases, the current system results in very short battles with less enjoyable air-to-air action.

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

The thing is . What was the problem with the older versions of the maps?  

 

This to me seems like an answer to a question nobody asked. 

 

I don't get it.   Aside from the ' guns do nothing except when shooting at you '  and the abysmal matchmaking when I can be full uptiered nearly half the games I play ( -1.0 ) but nearly nevrer get top tier ( as in my BR is equal to the top BR in the match ) . The maps and game modes were generally fine. 

[Exelcia 118]

I tried figuring out the exact amounts of ticket loss that destroying each unit type causes, and arrived at the following results for mid-tier Air AB:

 

Total tickets:     7000 (For most maps)

 

Player aircraft:     -20

AI attacker:         -100 (12 of these spawn on each map)

 

AAA:                   -100

Artillery:             -100

Howitzer:            -100

Armored Car:     -100

 

Light Pillbox:     -100

Pillbox:               -100

 

Light Tank:         -100

Medium Tank:    -100

Heavy Tank:       -100

 

Patrol Boat:        -100

Cargo Ship:        -100

Destroyer:          -100

Light Cruiser:     -100

Heavy Cruiser:   -100

 

Bombing Point: -350 (Tickets are subtracted at the moment of base destruction)

 

Armored car = Heavy tank?, or

Patrol boat = Heavy cruiser?

 

Spoiler

(These values seem to apply for most maps, but there are exceptions; for example, on the "Oahu" map, destroying most targets removes 78 tickets instead of the usual 100.)

 

From these numbers, it's quite clear that the current ticket loss implementation is broken. Going for anything other than soft targets is useless, because strafing AA guns and artillery is easier, faster and causes as much ticket loss per target as going for tanks or pillboxes. Doing base bombing is also out of the question, since what takes at least two loads* for a bomber taking a serious risk of not even reaching the base, a fighter can achieve in a few seconds by strafing a truck column.

 

*Two or more loads for most bombers, excluding the He 177, B-29, Tu-4 etc.

 

Most importantly, the excessive ticket loss from soft targets causes the majority of Ground Strike games to end in 5-10 minutes, negatively impacting the game experience for players that would like to use tactics other than strafing at treetop level.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Exelcia

[FORNAX_USA 71]

If the plan was to make everything count toward ticket bleed, logically they should have increased the total ticket amount along with it. I don't know how many times it needs to be said to Gaijin that shorter matches are detrimental to the gameplay for everyone. 

 

Wouldn't shock me in the least if this gets changed magically after the winter and battle pass events. 

[Challenger_TA 421]

Put this on similar topic Longer games are better

1) Eliminate Ai planes destroying any ground units ever. Players should have to do it.

2) New point place holder: Make AAA, artillery, armored cars, machine guns worth 20 points each. light tanks/pills 25 and 50. Medium, heavy tanks, and pillboxes 100points 

3) More total points per team. Air kills count now. Adjust for this effecting tickets. Account for at least 15-20(place holder) air kills being needed or combo with base points.

4) Its arcade add a vehicle counter back in the game! How many light units, tanks, pills, bases have been killed / how many remain, and Air kills per team , Ai planes if they count

 

Number 1 should be obvious but if ai planes aren't destroying ground units games likely wont end as fast.

Number 2 Making sure easily killed units count less than units that require heavier ordinance could help games last depending on how they currently add them up and how players react to seeing the tickets drop quickly to light units.  It would of course give players more credit for harder to kill units and in some cases promote or allow for more types of aircraft being used.

Number 3 With air kills/deaths counting for and against teams more points should be given to each team at the start. If the game can simply end by all ground units being destroyed that doesn't take into account the points now being eliminated by air kills/deaths thus the games ends sooner.

Number 4 This just seems basic to an arcade scenario. Show what you started with and where you are in a unit count. For me personally I often prefer to slow games down where tactically feasible. Having a precise accounting of the objective would allow me to do this easier. As well as helping newer players have some idea of what the heck is going on.

[anyuser 5,136]

For Nr. 1.

Groundunits always had an auto destruction. Over time they just went boom. Now you can safe them from being randomly remoteselfdestructed. This way it is much better.

 

But when I see somebody with a 109F4 and gunpods attacking those IL2s, failing to shoot ANY of them down, being shoot up by the gunners that only shoot at very close range and crash - its all about the teams...

 

9 hours ago, Exelcia said:

I tried figuring out the exact amounts of ticket loss that destroying each unit type causes, and arrived at the following results for mid-tier Air AB:

 

Total tickets:     7000 (For most maps)

 

Player aircraft:     -20

AI attacker:         -100 (12 of these spawn on each map)

 

AAA:                   -100

Artillery:             -100

Howitzer:            -100

Armored Car:     -100

 

Light Pillbox:     -100

Pillbox:               -100

 

Light Tank:         -100

Medium Tank:    -100

Heavy Tank:       -100

 

Patrol Boat:        -100

Cargo Ship:        -100

Destroyer:          -100

Light Cruiser:     -100

Heavy Cruiser:   -100

 

Bombing Point: -350 (Tickets are subtracted at the moment of base destruction)

 

This sounds more like a bug with somebody who has ***** up the setting the tickets for the units right.

[stephanovich 128]

22 hours ago, Exelcia said:

Total tickets:     7000 (For most maps)

 

AAA:                   -100

Artillery:             -100

Howitzer:            -100

Armored Car:     -100

 

This is definetly a problem. No way should a light target that can be destroyed by even 7mm be worth the same as a friggin heavy tank or cruiser!

7000 points also seem rather low when they've made those changes.

[TheFoxInTheBox_ 217]

Is anyone going to talk about how this implies that shooting down a player is only worth one fifth toward the match result as compared to destroying AI ground or air units? The main reason I play with aircraft is to fight other player controlled aircraft, not to have a slugging match over who can destroy the most AI units the fastest.

[anyuser 5,136]

AB was always a PvE thing with both teams try trying to sabotage each other in doing so.

In the past shooting down a player did worth nothing, beside the fact he was not able to attack one of your teammates or the groundunits / bases.

 

I'm more concerned about the fact, that something that needs several big bombs (CA) will cost the enemy the same tickets as something that can be destroyed by a single 7mm (Artillery) 

[RoadToRuin 16]

4 hours ago, TheFoxInTheBox_ said:

Is anyone going to talk about how this implies that shooting down a player is only worth one fifth toward the match result as compared to destroying AI ground or air units? The main reason I play with aircraft is to fight other player controlled aircraft, not to have a slugging match over who can destroy the most AI units the fastest.

I agree with this 100%. I understand that we are talking about ground strike maps, but not everyone wants to drop bombs or chase AI bombers, that's not why I play this game. I also don't care about winning and losing the battle, just want to enjoy air to air play. Short battles make this harder and harder to accomplish.