Unpopular Opinion: "Spawn Camping" is YOUR fault...

[Mahrs 15]

...and you deserve it.

 

Seriously, though, I've seen a couple folks on my team absolutely melt down, more than once, over "spawn camping."  I've got an alternative take:

1. If one or two players can take your team apart and play you all for fools, that's on YOU...not them.

2. Your fighters should be climbing at the beginning of the match, if the reds climb and you don't, that's on YOU...not them.  If your team gets cleaned out, see point #1 above.

3. If your team is getting crushed and the bulk of you, as targets, are in and around the spawn, that's on YOU...not them. 

 

I'm pretty new, so perhaps there are circumstances that don't fall into the above.  All I know is that every time I've seen it done to my team we absolutely deserved it.  The idea that the opponent should give us a break and take it easy on us because we suck...well, let me know if you ever find people willing to do that for anyone but kids.

[Maj_Fox@psn 521]

Interesting point of view.

 

Personally, as I have said many times, spawn camping provides the camper with an unfair advantage. I don't blame the players who do it. There not unskilled players as some suggest. I've gone into combat many times with an advantage but lost to a better player who can turn the tables.

 

The whole camping issue boils down to this. It spoils the game experience for the majority of players. My opinion.

 

Anything that spoils the game is bad for the game and can drive players away. Why do you think the number of player online has remained around the same number over the years? it's because players join at the same rate that players leave. Spawn Camping could be one of the reasons players leave.

 

Therefore, that's not on ME. That's on GAIJIN.

 

Cheers

Edited December 11, 2020 by Maj_Fox@psn
Spelling

[USSTalladega 6]

11 hours ago, Maj_Fox@psn said:

Interesting point of view.

 

Personally, as I have said many times, spawn camping provides the camper with an unfair advantage. I don't blame the players who do it. There not unskilled players as some suggest. I've gone into combat many times with an advantage but lost to a better player who can turn the tables.

 

The whole camping issue boils down to this. It spoils the game experience for the majority of players. My opinion.

 

Anything that spoils the game is bad for the game and can drive players away. Why do you think the number of player online has remained around the same number over the years? it's because players join at the same rate that players leave. Spawn Camping could be one of the reasons players leave.

 

Therefore, that's not on ME. That's on GAIJIN.

 

Cheers

Exactly. It's a dirty tactic that ruins the game for the other team. It takes no skill and it's cheap as heck. Spawn campers have no honor. And just because it's legal don't make it right either.

[Lexing_ 241]

1 hour ago, USSTalladega said:

Exactly. It's a dirty tactic that ruins the game for the other team. It takes no skill and it's cheap as heck. Spawn campers have no honor. And just because it's legal don't make it right either.

I would like to see you spawncamp. You don't have to like it but blatantly saying it takes no skill is denying that there is skill in single-handedly murdering the entire team.

[MasterBLB 3,764]

You have the right attitude @Mahrs, and willing to seek roots of failure within you first instead of blaming everything abound, be it spawncampers, OPness of enemy's plane, or whatever...well mate with such attitude you're on the best way to to become a true aerial ace someday, and yellers like USSTalladega will stay at the bottom of food chain, providing us frags.

[Daffan 6,158]

On 11/12/2020 at 13:22, Mahrs said:

...and you deserve it.

 

Seriously, though, I've seen a couple folks on my team absolutely melt down, more than once, over "spawn camping."  I've got an alternative take:

1. If one or two players can take your team apart and play you all for fools, that's on YOU...not them.

2. Your fighters should be climbing at the beginning of the match, if the reds climb and you don't, that's on YOU...not them.  If your team gets cleaned out, see point #1 above.

3. If your team is getting crushed and the bulk of you, as targets, are in and around the spawn, that's on YOU...not them. 

 

I'm pretty new, so perhaps there are circumstances that don't fall into the above.  All I know is that every time I've seen it done to my team we absolutely deserved it.  The idea that the opponent should give us a break and take it easy on us because we suck...well, let me know if you ever find people willing to do that for anyone but kids.

so what your saying is only players use planes that can climb the best and nothing else

 

so basically 100% 109's

 

 

[Lexing_ 241]

25 minutes ago, Daffan said:

so what your saying is only players use planes that can climb the best and nothing else

 

I mean just today I had a buddy who managed to kill the entire enemy team in the D-5 stuka. 

But anyway

If you expect to kill a bf109 in a turnfight with an Me 410 you are in for a rough ride

[Touched_Grass 758]

Well hey at least you did stay consistent to this point of view when I was against you! Your teammates were not happy though lol

 

[anyuser 5,136]

9 hours ago, Daffan said:

so what your saying is only players use planes that can climb the best and nothing else

 

so basically 100% 109's

Most "spawncamping" "109" pilots are stupid as all the other players. Even commiting to headons against other planes in an disadvantage position, getting killed (too) in the process (and celebrating the single kill...) or diving below the spawn altitude of the fighters or even down to the deck after archiving altitude advantage.

I have even seen idiots diving down into the airfield AA more then one time in one game just for "revenge!!!! you lured me there once!" (so you can fool me twice) or something like that...

 

It is more an adapted to the situation and your plane and don't feed those guys actively (what 90% of the "spawncampervictims" do).  

 

And still there are the players crying "spawncamper" the moment any kind of non-bomber plane shows up somehow close to the spawnpoint at an altitude at or above the bomber spawn...

I've seen it so many times and after one or two kills the "spawncamper" was gone because of being stupid. If he killed something at all.

 

There are very few squads that can do it good and much fewer single players who manage to do good in that position.

While it is always claimed to be a widespread problem.

Edited December 12, 2020 by anyuser

[USSTalladega 6]

23 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

I would like to see you spawncamp. You don't have to like it but blatantly saying it takes no skill is denying that there is skill in single-handedly murdering the entire team.

Not much skill involved in simply taking the time to climb higher than everyone else and then diving down as soon as someone pops up for an easy kill. Rinse. Repeat.

[Lexing_ 241]

24 minutes ago, USSTalladega said:

Not much skill involved in simply taking the time to climb higher than everyone else and then diving down as soon as someone pops up for an easy kill. Rinse. Repeat.

Then please submit a video of you doing it.

[Renamed248537853 582]

On 11/12/2020 at 03:22, Mahrs said:

...that's on YOU...not them.

No one is ever forced to spawncamp. Nor does having air superiority mean that it is mandatory to spawncamp. Spawncamping always happens because someone made the conscious decision to do so. Therefore, the only person responsible for spawncamping is the spawncamper. No one should be held responsible for someone else's decision.

 

On 11/12/2020 at 11:04, Maj_Fox@psn said:

Why do you think the number of player online has remained around the same number over the years? it's because players join at the same rate that players leave. Spawn Camping could be one of the reasons players leave.

Indeed. Which is why I'm quite certain that Gaijin wil eventually tackle the spawncamping 'problem'. Not because they care about players not having fun, but because they will realise that it will hurt them in their wallet (i.e. a small group of spawncampers chasing away potentially money spending players).
After all; if you are a relatively new player, get tired of being spawncamped, and then realise that not only Gaijin doesn't care about spawncamping but even states that it's a perfectly valid tactic...would you be more or less inclined to give this company your hard-earned cash?
The reality is that Gaijin and War Thunder don't need spawncampers to survive, but they do need an influx of new players who are willing to spend money...

 

On 12/12/2020 at 00:04, ____Lexing____ said:

I would like to see you spawncamp. You don't have to like it but blatantly saying it takes no skill is denying that there is skill in single-handedly murdering the entire team.

Actually, it's the fact that skillful pilots do it that makes it problematic. Can you see why?

 

21 hours ago, MasterBLB said:

...and yellers like USSTalladega will stay at the bottom of food chain, providing us frags.

And thank God apparently. I mean, heaven forbid that everyone playing this game's most casual, easiest, and most forgiving game mode would take it very, very, VERY seriously and you would have to actually fight for every frag, right?

Edited December 12, 2020 by Renamed248537853

[FORNAX_USA 71]

This opinion isn't gonna sit well with a lot of people lol

[Lexing_ 241]

On 12/12/2020 at 15:46, Renamed248537853 said:

And thank God apparently. I mean, heaven forbid that everyone playing this game's most casual, easiest, and most forgiving game mode would take it very, very, VERY seriously and you would have to actually fight for every frag, right?

Thanks for telling me I shouldn't learn to aim!

[Renamed248537853 582]

14 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

Thanks for telling me I shouldn't learn to aim!

 

Did I?

[USSTalladega 6]

On 12/12/2020 at 16:10, ____Lexing____ said:

Then please submit a video of you doing it.

I don't owe you anything. Just the fact that I'm right.

[willcliff 116]

5 hours ago, USSTalladega said:

I don't owe you anything. Just the fact that I'm right.

Clearly, you are a master of logic and debate!

One whose knowledge has long ago transcended the need for mere basic, mundane "proof"

[Lexing_ 241]

17 hours ago, USSTalladega said:

I don't owe you anything. Just the fact that I'm right.

Please back up your claim with evidence

[Renamed248537853 582]

2 hours ago, ____Lexing____ said:

Please back up your claim with evidence

 

Well, since you mentioned 'backing up claims with evidence': did I really tell you that you shouldn't learn to aim?

[FrizFreleng 951]

The OP is entirely correct. In my experience—five years and roughly 18,000 matches, most of them Arcade Air Battles—spawn campers are only an issue if you decided to climb after spawn and either a) don't exercise the basic situational awareness to see that there is a bogey right above you; or b) see the bogey, and decide to climb anyway, despite your decided disadvantage because of first rule of dogfighting, which is that altitude=energy. 

 

If, on the other hand, you just dive 500 meters or so, it sends a signal to the "spawn camper" that you're not playing their game, and they'll leave you alone. They have to, because, again, if they chase you they relinquish their advantage. It's pretty rare that anyone 5,000 meters above the spawn is going to come down to 1,500 m to try to whack another plane. It's the sign of an amateur, and means they'll be dead after a kill or two. 

 

It's also silly to claim it doesn't take skill. Usually the "spawn campers" are, like @ ____Lexing____, in [100] or other squads that are focused around very high K/D ratios and dogfighting. You obtain those ratios by only engaging in match-ups you are likely to win, which means climbing early and maintaining that advantage. If you watch closely, these fighters frequently break off from a dogfight if it means them losing that advantage. So again, dive and they'll leave you alone. When less experienced flyers try it, they usually lack this discipline and drop down to where new planes spawning in can quickly kill them. When I see someone get 15 or more kills without losing a plane, I go back and watch the replay. It's a work of art, truly, full of graceful maneuvers and really smart tactical decisions. You can learn a lot watching these replays. 

 

As the OP said, it's a choice. If you don't engage the spawn campers, they won't engage you. Even when I take out a bomber, I will dive quickly, then climb back up. It's a kind of gentlemanly sport, I've found. 

 

My only disagreement with the OP is that teams need to dominate the higher skies. This might have been true when arcade games were longer, but as a strategic matter in 2020 it's utterly irrelevant. The win goes to the team that kills the most ground targets. Even bombers, see above, can squeeze past the [100] guys if you just dive out of the gate, then climb. Spawn camping, if you need to call it that, is just a game within a game, and you can take it or leave it as you desire. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by FrizFreleng

[f_ritz 24]

On 12/12/2020 at 16:46, USSTalladega said:

Not much skill involved in simply taking the time to climb higher than everyone else

If you don't take the time to climb, others will. He who has an energy advantage decides the terms of engagement. That said, I rarely see good campers above 5000 meters, so maybe they're doing something that you're missing.

 

Does it suck getting spawncamped? As someone who was often jumped in his spawn when he was a young pilot, yes. It does. But I learned to play properly.

Learn to disengage when you can't win. Stay out of a fight you can't win. Don't shoot unless you know you're going to hit your target. Be aware of your surroundings, even if you just spawned in. Use the right ammunition. Learn to aim. If you can't aim, get your opponent into a low energy state. I could go on, but I think my point is clear.

[PORKENS 3]

19 minutes ago, TheVozhd said:

If you don't take the time to climb, others will. He who has an energy advantage decides the terms of engagement. That said, I rarely see good campers above 5000 meters, so maybe they're doing something that you're missing.

 

Does it suck getting spawncamped? As someone who was often jumped in his spawn when he was a young pilot, yes. It does. But I learned to play properly.

Learn to disengage when you can't win. Stay out of a fight you can't win. Don't shoot unless you know you're going to hit your target. Be aware of your surroundings, even if you just spawned in. Use the right ammunition. Learn to aim. If you can't aim, get your opponent into a low energy state. I could go on, but I think my point is clear.

Never really had a problem with this  but yes, pretty much what   you  said. I always enter battle on the defensive. 

[Renamed248537853 582]

17 hours ago, FrizFreleng said:

The OP is entirely correct.

 

 

OK, let's discuss. Three questions for you (and only you):

 

1 - Why do these skilled players spawncamp? After all, being skilled, they should have no problem whatsoever getting kills anywhere else on the map...

2 - Why is it more of a problem that skilled players spawncamp?

3 - Why do people generally take issue with being killed right after spawning, but not with being killed anywhere else on the map?

 

I would've asked Lexing, but for some reason this person seems to run away from very simple questions (see above)...

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Renamed248537853

[Strippa1530@live 1]

To say spawn camping takes no skill is incorrect. It takes 0 skill to climb and the go to the spawn. That is correct. BUT to get high kills and not die takes a lot of skill. It’s not all BnZ unaware pilots just spawning in. Some are well aware and will side climb to get above you. To keep camping and then also deal with enemies that have climbed above you again takes a lot of skill as now they have the advantage over you - or so they think. Most think all you need is the alt advantage BUT good players will still kill the ones that have climbed. Either in a head on where the climber full commits or just reversing the climber and simply out flying him. Spawn campers ( the good ones ) would kill you anyway - not just with the energy / alt advantage. 

[SeeYouAtTheSpawn 3]

In answer to your first question, skilled players spawncamp because it is simply the most efficient and effective way at putting their skills to use. And yes, I know from experience that skilled players have zero trouble shooting down guys not just over the spawn. I farm airbases in domination games if conditions above the spawn aren't fit, i.e clouds.

Second question, it is a "problem" when a skilled player does anything in any game because they are skilled. When a newb camps or does anything he isn't good at, you don't get the same frustrating experience as when a pro does.

Third question, people do take offense at being killed not over the spawn,   this was NOT from spawncamping. 

 

 

Edited December 19, 2020 by SeeYouAtTheSpawn