Clemson-class Destroyer USS Long (DD-209)(1919): Best Armed Among the Clemson Swarm

[Admiral_Aruon 2,263]

In a departure from my ongoing obsession with unique ship class types, I was thinking of going for something entirely different, and a little shorter than the usual university final essay.

So now here we have a member of the endless swarm of freaking locusts that is the Clemson-class of ships. A class whose performance in War Thunder is currently mediocre enough to be worthy of reserve status in the blue water fleet section.

 

let's switch that up. shall we?

 

This is the suggestion for the USS Long (DD-209) (originally the sister ship duo of the USS Hovey and Long; but that was closed as apparently USS Hovey was previously suggested at some point), specifically USS Long was in its 1919 commissioning up to the November 1940 conversion into a Destroyer Minesweeper redesignated as DMS-12.

while largely identical to the rest of the Clemson swarm that were built en masse practically right into reserve, the USS Long and sister ship USS Hovey uniquely among the class had four sets of paired 4"/50 Mark IX cannons, making them FAR more powerful than even the Clemsons in USS MacDonough, Farenholt, Sumner, Corry, and Melvin (DD-331-335) that were armed with four 5"/51 Mark VIII cannons.

 

 

USS Long (DD-209) during an Alaskan cruise, circa 1937

Note her twin 4"/50 gun mountings- the Caldwell-class TBD USS Stockton (DD-73) originally pioneered this twin mount for its main deck mount in late 1917, with Hovey and Long featuring the improved, second generation of the twin mount on all 4 of its main gun mounts. note how the bow gun is in a little sponson turret and the side gun paired mount is just under a tarp

 

full length USS Long closeup (colorized with AI colorize-it, hence the imperfections), date and location unknown

 

USS Long from the stern, on the Columbia River, 1934 (colorized with AI, hence the orange splotch)

 

USS Hovey and USS Long, along with USS Maryland (BB-46) transiting the Panama Canal in the Miraflores Lock

 

USS Long (DD-209) leading USS Wasmuth (DD-338) during the Alaskan cruise of 1937. (colorized with AI)

 

 

the actual look of the twin mount system on USS Stockton, 1917. (remember that Hovey and Long came only 2 years later) underneath the hinged sponsons and as seen on the port/starboard mounts on Hovey and Long, this is what they look like. (picture link won't auto-embed... dammit Navweaps!)

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_4-50_mk9_Twin_over_pic.jpg

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_4-50_mk9_Twin_pic.jpg

 

Long's sister ship USS Hovey, September 1st, 1932 (colorized with deep AI, hence the orange imperfections) - you can clearly see the rear and bow guns are in a sponson, and the port gun is an unprotected open mount.

 

 

seeing as Long are largely identical to the rest of the class, don't expect anything else out of the ordinary.

especially as this only covers prior to 1940, when Long lost the great main gun armament this suggestion is built around when it refitted as a DMS ship.

 

__________________________________________________________________

HISTORY (1919-November 1940):

As to be expected of the Clemson swarm, the sister ships USS Long (DD-209) and USS Hovey (DD-208) were laid down in the last waning months of WWI, but unlike many of the class NOT just commissioned more or less right into reserve. i guess having double the firepower of your other gazillion siblings and half-siblings in the Clemson and Wickes classes helps pick you out from the crowd.

 

 

After the initial shakedown cruise, USS Long sailed to the Mediterranean to serve with the Destroyer Division 26 that was patrolling all throughout the Mediterranean in the later aftermath of WWI. Like with Hovey, Long would after a time head to the Philippines to join the Asiatic Squadron for a year and a half before returning to San Diego for decommissioning at the very end of the year on December 30th, 1922, as most of the last vestiges of the WWI era ended.

 

Long would sit in reserve for quite a long time at 8 years and 29 days, being recommissioned on March 29th, 1930.

Long would then spend the majority of the 1930s doing various exercises and occasional stints in reserve.

 

As it became clear the US was eventually going to war, USS Long alongside a variety of other obsolescent Clemson and Wickes-class DDs would be converted to Destroyer Minesweepers

(suffix: DMS) on November 19th, 1940.

__________________________________________________________________

GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS:

 

Displacement:

1190 tons (normal)

1308 tons (full)

 

Length:

94.5 meters waterline

95.8 meters overall

 

Beam:

9.40 meters

 

Draft:

3.00 meters

 

Engines:

4 White-Forster boilers feeding into 2 sets of Parsons geared steam turbines, producing 26,500-27000 ihp, going through 2 shafts, for a speed of 35 knots (64.8 km/h, 40.3 mph)

 

Fuel:

225 tons of fuel oil

 

Endurance:

2500 nautical miles as 20 knots)

 

Crew:

114

 

__________________________________________________________________

ARMAMENT:

 

4×2 4-inch L/50 Mark IX guns

same model and placements as seen ingame

 

 

1×1 3-inch L/23 Mark XIV gun

same model and placement as seen ingame

 

12 × 21-inch (533 mm) torpedo tubes

same models and placements as seen ingame.

 

__________________________________________________________________

SOURCES:

there's only so many sources specifically on USS Long specifically. so once again, there's only so many differences a particular Clemson-class can have

 

online:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Long

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/208.htm - loads of photographs showing USS Hovey (DD-208)(identical sister ship specifically USS Long) from all angles and distances (may as well keep this as Hovey and Long are identical sister ships)

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/209.htm - loads of photographs showing USS Hovey (DD-209) from all angles and distances

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/usa/us_dd_clemson.htm

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/l/long.html

Edited December 24, 2020 by Admiral_Aruon
typos, slight revisions

[Miki_Hoshii 2,449]

Open for discussion.

[Milocat 4,842]

+1 from me for sure, this would be an awesome new ship to see.  It's very heavy gun armament could make any enemy destroyer think twice.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Milocat

[snippereyyy 7]

+1 to the other Clemson gun configurations, like this one with twin 4"/50s and the few ships with 5"/51's. I'd be fine with this either as a tech tree or premium/event ship.

[kkang2828 1,446]

On 11/01/2021 at 16:07, snippereyyy said:

+1 to the other Clemson gun configurations, like this one with twin 4"/50s and the few ships with 5"/51's. I'd be fine with this either as a tech tree or premium/event ship.

The USS Hovey(the other twin 4-inch armed ship) and USS Hatfield(one of the 5-inch/51 armed ships) have already been suggested and passed for consideration.

[ZackZooter 55]

By the way.... does anyone knows if there are these kind of ships that have AA refit of Oerlikons & BoFors which trade off some torpedo or secondaries??? That one would make a good suggestion for a start SINCE i can't find it anywhere on Wiki which i'm not good at...

[kkang2828 1,446]

13 hours ago, ZackZooter said:

By the way.... does anyone knows if there are these kind of ships that have AA refit of Oerlikons & BoFors which trade off some torpedo or secondaries??? That one would make a good suggestion for a start SINCE i can't find it anywhere on Wiki which i'm not good at...

By the time of WW2 the flush-deckers were considered obsolete as proper fleet destroyers and most were converted into support vessels such as transports, minesweepers, minelayers, and seaplane tenders.

 

The ships that remained as destroyers were mostly rearmed with 3-inch/50 guns in place of the main guns for better AA protection and used as convoy escorts. No Clemson-class was refitted with 40mm guns, and I believe the in-game USS Barker represents a rare example of 20mm guns being fitted without changing the main guns.

 

So further research would have to be done on whether these Up-gunned Clemsons had any AA guns added without changing the main guns, but don’t have high hopes.

[ZackZooter 55]

13 minutes ago, kkang2828 said:

So further research would have to be done on whether these Up-gunned Clemsons had any AA guns added without changing the main guns, but don’t have high hopes.

To me, that's good enough to know... Honestly, i wasn't expecting only Clemson-class ship to participate in WW2 directly... Any ship from WW1 to InterWar era which indirectly participate as minesweeper, support destroyer N such would do as long as they gain WW2 AA refit as early as 1942...

 

16 minutes ago, kkang2828 said:

I believe the in-game USS Barker represents a rare example of 20mm guns being fitted without changing the main guns

That ship should be placed as reserve Destroyer for BR 3.3 level with current standard... any clemson or older that have similar capability that have AA refit while only have 3-4 main guns of older 4inch up to 5inch guns firepower (not DP 5inch found on Farragut-class) could fill the US tech tree blank for BR 3.0 up to BR 4.0 depending on overall specification... 

Like gaining at least 4 single Oerlikon for minimal upto 10 Oerlikon mount in either single, twin or quad overall for maximum AA firepower for BR 3.3 - BR 3.7 level OR added with 1-4 BoFors in single or twin or quad depending on their refit, for reference sake

[kkang2828 1,446]

21 hours ago, ZackZooter said:

To me, that's good enough to know... Honestly, i wasn't expecting only Clemson-class ship to participate in WW2 directly... Any ship from WW1 to InterWar era which indirectly participate as minesweeper, support destroyer N such would do as long as they gain WW2 AA refit as early as 1942...

 

Does that mean you’re fine with 3-inch main guns, no torpedoes, and below 20kt speed as long as there are more 20mm guns? I’d have to disagree with you on that. That would be worse than the HMS Churchill.

 

21 hours ago, ZackZooter said:

That ship should be placed as reserve Destroyer for BR 3.3 level with current standard... any clemson or older that have similar capability that have AA refit while only have 3-4 main guns of older 4inch up to 5inch guns firepower (not DP 5inch found on Farragut-class) could fill the US tech tree blank for BR 3.0 up to BR 4.0 depending on overall specification... 

Like gaining at least 4 single Oerlikon for minimal upto 10 Oerlikon mount in either single, twin or quad overall for maximum AA firepower for BR 3.3 - BR 3.7 level OR added with 1-4 BoFors in single or twin or quad depending on their refit, for reference sake

IMO the USS Litchfield is fine for a reserve. Other reserve ships such as Frunze and Mutsuki have barely any AA firepower as well. 
 

You do know that only historical refits can be introduced in WT, right? No Clemson received 40mm guns, and large numbers of 20mm are unlikely considering the Clemsons’ size and displacement.

[ZackZooter 55]

5 minutes ago, kkang2828 said:

Other reserve ships such as Frunze and Mutsuki have barely any AA firepower as well

Noted... i found that US Navy indeed have make AA refit on USS Allen, Sampson-class which they trade 2 triple torpedo for 6 Oerlikons based on Wikipedia.... BUT i can't say more since that's what i read from... If anyone can verify it... then its all good...

[ZackZooter 55]

11 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

No Clemson received 40mm guns, and large numbers of 20mm are unlikely considering the Clemsons’ size and displacement.

Maybe not 40mm BoFors or 37mm AA gun in large numbers but at least 6 Oerlikons or more are possible despite its size & displacement because a single Oerlikons don't have the same weight as a single torpedo mount, right???  As i said, a tradeoff like either removal of funnels, secondaries and such for AA refit... 

 

Also, it doesn't have to be Clemsons only thought... Just as Clemsons have 2 twin 4inch or 5inch guns, there are some older ship in the earlier era that have WW2 AA refit sometime despite in small numbers...

[kkang2828 1,446]

On 10/11/2021 at 08:07, ZackZooter said:

Maybe not 40mm BoFors or 37mm AA gun in large numbers but at least 6 Oerlikons or more are possible despite its size & displacement because a single Oerlikons don't have the same weight as a single torpedo mount, right???  As i said, a tradeoff like either removal of funnels, secondaries and such for AA refit... 

 

Also, it doesn't have to be Clemsons only thought... Just as Clemsons have 2 twin 4inch or 5inch guns, there are some older ship in the earlier era that have WW2 AA refit sometime despite in small numbers...

 

Well if anyone can find concrete sources I’m all for it. But I personally want a ship with heavier main armament first.

 

That’s that, but I wonder if the twin guns on USS Hovey and Long had any accuracy issues, because those guns are mounted pretty close together.

[Frenzier 48]

This would make a great 3.7 BR ship since it has no AA defenses.