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Panzer 39 Mod 1941, a failed venture.


Solarmod
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Would you like to see this in game?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. What tree should it belong in?

    • Combined Swiss/Austrian Tree (Tree)
      14
    • Swiss Tree (Tree)
      16
    • German Tree
      11
    • French Tree
      7
    • I don't want to see this in the game. (Why?)
      0
  2. 2. What BR?

    • 1.3
      10
    • 1.7
      15
    • 2.0
      14
    • I'm unsure.
      9
    • I don't want to see it in game. (Why?)
      0


This is a unique Swiss design, and as such, belongs in the Swiss Tech Tree, but you can dispute this in the comments section, if you want.

TE_Pz_39_Ver_2_Fin-1024x531.png

(Illustration made for Tanks-Encyclopedia)

This is the Panzer 39 Mod 1941, a modification of the Swiss Panzer 39, which in itself was a Swiss-bought LTL-H (Also known to many as the Panzer 38), a unique prototype version of the Swiss's own design, the plan was to upgrade the insufficient 24mm PzwK 38's anti tank capabilities, by upgrading the main gun to the 4.7cm Pak 41 (Renamed to 4.7cm Panzerwagen Kanone 41, for being mounted in the tank), and the turret was redesigned, allowing for a larger gun, and said design was submitted to Switzerland's army in April of 1943 (by which point, the gun was already out of date, but that's for later)

 

3brpo0C.jpg

(again, the turret blueprint is thanks to Tanks Encyclopedia, from the Swiss Archives)

 

The 4.7 Pak 41 had a AP shell capable of penetrating 60mm of armor at point blank range, the shell weighing 1.75 Kg, and having a muzzle velocity of 750 m/s. The turret was larger, to facilitate the new gun, but kept the armor at the same thicknesses, 30mm at the front, but only 8-10 mm on the sides and rear. Other changes included the turret being welded instead of bolted to increase survivability, and lower the total weight, the requirements of the Swiss Army meant that the turret had to be designed to fit on the original hull, without modifications, so it could be added to a stock hull with little issue. Unfortunately, it was not physically put together until 1945, when the prototype was ready for testing, and by then, the gun was so far out of date, that they didn't even bother to mount a real one on it, instead using a wooden mockup gun, though the gun was used by the Swiss army beforehand, and was phased out in 1950. The turret, had the sad fate of being destroyed soon after, with the decision by the Swiss Military in 1945 to turn all Panzer 39s into training vehicles, ending the prolonged history of the Panzer 39, 1941.

7wY64bC.jpg

(The only photo of it with the wooden gun in place)

 

Conclusion:

I feel that this tank would be a unique Rank 1 vehicle for the Swiss Tree, and would be a very fun little thing to play, being mobile, having an ok gun, and alright armor, it would fit well at 1.3 or 1.7 as one of the first researchable vehicles in the Swiss Tech Tree.

 

Specifications:

Dimensions (L-W-H): 4.46*200*2.10m (14.63*6.56*6.88 ft)

Total weight: 7.7 tonnes

Crew: 3-4 (Commander, Radio Operator/Gunner/Driver)

Engine: Saurer CT2D, 125 BHP (92 kW)

Speed on/off road: 45/25 km/h (28/15.5mph)

Armament:

K+W 4.7 cm Panzerwagen Kanone 1941 (Unknown ammo carried)

2 * 7.5mm W+F Panzerwagen Maschinegewehr 1938

1 * 7.5mm W+F Panzerwagen Maschinegewehr 1925

Armor:

Front: 30 mm

Side: 15 mm

Rear: 8 mm

Total Production:

1 Prototype built, later converted into a training vehicle.

4.7 cm anti-tank gun 1941

The 4.7 cm K+W 4.7 cm Panzerwagen Kanone 1941

 

Sources:

Swiss National Archives/Einbau 4.7 cm Pak. in Panzerwagen
Swiss National Archives/NK I + NK II
Exportni Lehka Tanky Praga ( Export Light Tanks) by Vladimir Francev

https://militaerfahrzeuge.ch/unterkategorie_26_35_548.html

https://militaerfahrzeuge.ch/unterkategorie_13_10_44.html

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  • Senior Suggestion Moderator

Open for discussion. :salute:

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I think an Austria, Austria-Hungary, or Austria + Switzerland tree is interesting, but it might be a non-starter. I would say it'd be better off in either the German or French tree. Italy might be an option but it'd be a stretch. Sweden might make sense because they were both neutral nations but Sweden has enough stuff like this. 

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36 minutes ago, PrussianOwl said:

I think an Austria, Austria-Hungary, or Austria + Switzerland tree is interesting, but it might be a non-starter. I would say it'd be better off in either the German or French tree. Italy might be an option but it'd be a stretch. Sweden might make sense because they were both neutral nations but Sweden has enough stuff like this. 

I get what you mean, but I personally think Hungary could carry itself, so that's why I think a Swiss-Austrian tree would be better. That's why I'm working on making that as a tree. Thank you for the support though!

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+1 obviously

 

 

I think, maybe in french tree, that could help also the rank 5 to have a stab (talking about centurions) 

 

or swiss or swiss and another nation tree

 

but I want to see france grow up 

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On 19/01/2021 at 14:20, MERTRAL said:

+1 obviously

 

 

I think, maybe in french tree, that could help also the rank 5 to have a stab (talking about centurions) 

 

or swiss or swiss and another nation tree

 

but I want to see france grow up 

?????

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  • 2 months later...
On 21/01/2021 at 17:50, Solarmod said:

?????

well, I want to see switzerland going to france basically

 

now that we know that SA is a sub tree and austria wouldnt be a separate tree with another nation

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making an austrian-swiss tree is maybe not the thing that will happen in the future

 

germany has already a good tier 1, I dont see why it should go to germany specifically 

 

and switzerland could give to france more viable rank 6 vehicles in general, with stabs, thermals... more diversity 

 

and the air tree would go definitely to france, if there is a plan to add the swiss nation in a sub tree

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26 minutes ago, MERTRAL said:

making an austrian-swiss tree is maybe not the thing that will happen in the future

 

germany has already a good tier 1, I dont see why it should go to germany specifically 

 

and switzerland could give to france more viable rank 6 vehicles in general, with stabs, thermals... more diversity 

 

and the air tree would go definitely to france, if there is a plan to add the swiss nation in a sub tree

I disagree with everything

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Swiss have not only french made tec they also have a good load of german tec (or inspired by), UK and US ... so I don't think France would be as logical as you think, also people will complain about the fact that it could also be added to Germany or Italy, Switzerland will be hard to adapte somewhere and choose the proper place... Austria could already be grouped with Ex-Austrian-Hungary countrys, so could Switzerland join them? Idk. it could be on it's own but maybe they don't have enough vehicles, the only thing missing would be Naval...

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My ideal tree is a Swiss-Austrian tree called the "Alpine Tree" as suggested by my non WT-Playing Swiss and Austrian friends

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3 hours ago, Solarmod said:

My ideal tree is a Swiss-Austrian tree called the "Alpine Tree" as suggested by my non WT-Playing Swiss and Austrian friends

Actually I wouldn't mind that as an Austrian, kinda like a german confederation tree if it's switzerland and Austria, and maybe even throw in other members of the former confederation like luxembourg. Originally I wanted to see austria in german tree and switzerland either split up or made it's own tech tree (I think making it it's own tech tree would be better and I would definitely play it).

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10 hours ago, X_MONSTER-EATU_X@psn said:

Actually I wouldn't mind that as an Austrian, kinda like a german confederation tree if it's switzerland and Austria, and maybe even throw in other members of the former confederation like luxembourg. Originally I wanted to see austria in german tree and switzerland either split up or made it's own tech tree (I think making it it's own tech tree would be better and I would definitely play it).

You're the third Austrian/Swiss to say that they're fine with it. I have a swiss and two austrian friends and when I presented the idea they were like: "Yeah, I like this, it makes more sense." One of them, an Austrian who's gonna be an airman said something along the lines of, "I don't know much about the Swiss Air Force, but as an Austrian, I believe that our countries are close enough politically that we could be represented together." 

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1 hour ago, Solarmod said:

You're the third Austrian/Swiss to say that they're fine with it. I have a swiss and two austrian friends and when I presented the idea they were like: "Yeah, I like this, it makes more sense." One of them, an Austrian who's gonna be an airman said something along the lines of, "I don't know much about the Swiss Air Force, but as an Austrian, I believe that our countries are close enough politically that we could be represented together." 

As a Swiss, I can only agree. Both Austria and Switzerland are fairly similar. Both alpine nations. Both have around 8.5-9 mio citizens. Swiss German and Austrian German are very similar. Our cultures have many similarities. It would be the best match, if Switzerland can't be added alone. Way better match then with Germany or France.

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3 hours ago, hom3er said:

As a Swiss, I can only agree. Both Austria and Switzerland are fairly similar. Both alpine nations. Both have around 8.5-9 mio citizens. Swiss German and Austrian German are very similar. Our cultures have many similarities. It would be the best match, if Switzerland can't be added alone. Way better match then with Germany or France.

I tried to get as much content for Switzerland, and it ended with a large amount of premiums, so I added more lines and sprinkled in some Austrian content. Muah, magnificent. I will be finishing the suggestion soon.

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  • 4 months later...

Well why not, Austria alone with Switzerland look kind of strange, and I'm also thinking of Naval part, I know there is discusions about naval tree being mendatory or not, but here there is a catch, now we got WW1 Battleships, technically Austria should go along with Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Yougoslavia. This doesn't mean Switzerland couldn't join them ;) Also there is some people that ^proposed to be in German or Italian or French tech tree so it's hard to tell, but the geographical reason is a point I didn't see coming :p 

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