AMX 12 quatritube de 20 mm antiaérlen

[WiseMinerva 455]

Built in 1949 as part of a program for adapting different turrets for the upcoming AMX-13 light tank. Several of these prototypes were designed as spaag though this particular machine was built on the AMX-12 chassis. It was armed with 4 German MG 151/20 machine guns that were left over from the war and were the only medium machine guns the French had at the time. These were installed in a special S 232 enclosed turret. The French had experimented with a quad mount for the 151 with the end result being a version called the  PM 512 de La Précision Moderne being mounted on 20 GMC 6x6 trucks. The use of the MG 151/20 was eventually abandoned in favour of the 20 mm Hispano.

 

The vehicle was tested at Toulon in May 1950 with a second prototype undergoing tests from September to August in 1951. These were mostly to test the viability of the spaa in armoured units. Despite preforming well in tests and being considered an improvement over the spaa that had been previously fielded by the French the vehicle was not accepted for service. The main reason was that while the enclosed turret provided protection to the crew it lacked any radar. This meant that the guns had to aim by sight and it simply wasn't possible to do against the fast moving jets of the time.

 

AMX 12 stats

Spoiler

Specifications
Mass	14.124 kg
Length	4.876 mm
Width	2.524 mm
Height	2.247 mm
Crew	3

 

MG 151/20 in game

Spoiler

 

Resources

https://imgur.com/t/tanks/S4O0VH5

8.3. Launet DCA.pdf (irsem.fr)

Touzin ,  Pierre.  Les Vehicules Blindes Francais 1945-1977 

http://tankersdiary.blogspot.com/2015/05/tank6-finally-frechies-amx-13-light-tank.html

https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt/mg151-aircraft-weapon-ww2.html

http://www.indaginibalistiche.it/en/mg-151-manual-de/

Edited October 29, 2021 by WiseMinerva

[leroyonly 4,311]

Open for discussion. 

[Milocat 4,857]

+1 to infinity.  I love it, when can we get it?

[伊地知虹夏正在点国策 1,289]

+1

 

Question is, where would you put it BR wise? it has a enclosed turret, which is a huge deal for SPAA.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

+1 Perfect BR 3.7 SPAA for France

Also why have a vote option for it to be an event vehicle or an premium vehicle?

Edited January 15, 2021 by Cpt_Jack_Irons

[CaID 8,996]

actually it was the prototype, the AMX-12 chassis.

 

not that it would make it less interresting to add.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

+1

I think the big missing stat for it is the rotation speed of the turret, could make the vehicle either very good or very bad 

[Abaddon75 460]

+1 seen wikipedia page yesterday talking about it but couldn't find anything else so I was thinking they had made a mistake and took the VTT version equiped with quad .50 for a quad 20mm, but I'm really happy this exist, and it would be really good to have ingame after the MGMC, also I'm pretty sure we won't have access to the most OP 20mm round of WW2, so the fully enclosed turret will be ballanced by less fire power

[FrizBeee 229]

+1 gib the french wilberwind, this one would be better as a AA than the french LVT4 40mn, while being less good as a TD.

[Abaddon75 460]

Btw you said that the mg151 was abandonned in favor of 20m hispano, does it means the second prototype was an hispano one? Or is there somewhere an other spaa prototype with hispano?

[CaID 8,996]

5 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

+1 seen wikipedia page yesterday talking about it but couldn't find anything else so I was thinking they had made a mistake and took the VTT version equiped with quad .50 for a quad 20mm, but I'm really happy this exist, and it would be really good to have ingame after the MGMC, also I'm pretty sure we won't have access to the most OP 20mm round of WW2, so the fully enclosed turret will be ballanced by less fire power

yes. on Wiki they had identified the AMX VCI with the Maxon M45 turret for the AMX-13 quad 20mm. i corrected that a while back in the picture caption onthe Wiki page.. about 2years ago. i am not sure if they retained my correction.

10 hours ago, Cedjoe said:

+1

I think the big missing stat for it is the rotation speed of the turret, could make the vehicle either very good or very bad 

it can at least get to the AMX-13 rotation. it would be hard to design a SPAA version with worse rotation than the Light tank version. and the AMX-13 have a not too bad rotation to start with.

[CaID 8,996]

3 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

Btw you said that the mg151 was abandonned in favor of 20m hispano, does it means the second prototype was an hispano one? Or is there somewhere an other spaa prototype with hispano?

it was as standard close range AA role. it didnt mean on a mobile SPAA. they did created quad 20mm Hispano on halftrack. only the hispano was bigger and the magazine in drum do not easily fit inside a turret. the MG 151 was easier to fit in a turret, more compact and have little recoil (but little penetration too) as AA role the MG151/20 is a good choice.

 

they did have the AMX-13 bi-tube who have twin 20mm. its a development related to this one

[CaID 8,996]

@WiseMinerva

i belive the French army was having enough of GMC CCKW 353 PM512 and vierling along the GMC CCKW 353 40mm in service to wait the development of the more promising 30mm SPAA on the AMX-13, i think the main reason the Quadri-tube was not put into production was economical, they would had replaced it shortly after the production started if they did, the GMC CCKW 353 was retired in the early 50s and only a few served as SPAA/AFV in the indochina until the mid 50s. it mainly show that france was getting their SPAA to a higher level more suitable for fighting jets.

[RytisLTU1 2,585]

+1 would be nice to see in standart tree

[Cedjoe 5,482]

1 hour ago, CaID said:

yes. on Wiki they had identified the AMX VCI with the Maxon M45 turret for the AMX-13 quad 20mm. i corrected that a while back in the picture caption onthe Wiki page.. about 2years ago. i am not sure if they retained my correction.

it can at least get to the AMX-13 rotation. it would be hard to design a SPAA version with worse rotation than the Light tank version. and the AMX-13 have a not too bad rotation to start with.

Yeah I imagine

[Valcour 1,141]

It has my vote.  +1

 

[WiseMinerva 455]

On 15/01/2021 at 00:06, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

+1 Perfect BR 3.7 SPAA for France

Also why have a vote option for it to be an event vehicle or an premium vehicle?

Mostly because that's how I've aways done my suggestions so people have options when voting even if it's slightly redundant now with the addition of the market.

 

11 hours ago, CaID said:

@WiseMinerva

i belive the French army was having enough of GMC CCKW 353 PM512 and vierling along the GMC CCKW 353 40mm in service to wait the development of the more promising 30mm SPAA on the AMX-13, i think the main reason the Quadri-tube was not put into production was economical, they would had replaced it shortly after the production started if they did, the GMC CCKW 353 was retired in the early 50s and only a few served as SPAA/AFV in the indochina until the mid 50s. it mainly show that france was getting their SPAA to a higher level more suitable for fighting jets.

That would make sense. After all why spend the time, money, and resources on a vehicle that will be outmoded relatively soon anyway. 

 

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

6 hours ago, WiseMinerva said:

Mostly because that's how I've aways done my suggestions so people have options when voting even if it's slightly redundant now with the addition of the market.

I was more asking since Gaijin would never put an SPAA as an Premium or Event Vehicle

Edited January 16, 2021 by Cpt_Jack_Irons

[WiseMinerva 455]

6 hours ago, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

I was more asking since Gaijin would never put an SPAA as an Premium or Event Vehicle

What about the ZUT-37 and Phòng không T-34? Granted they are the only ones I know of.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

22 minutes ago, WiseMinerva said:

What about the ZUT-37 and Phòng không T-34? Granted they are the only ones I know of.

The ZUT-37 is an oddball vehicle and barely counts as an SPAA with that Slow Turret Traverse.

And the Vietnamese SPAA T-34 was only an event vehicle because it was not made by the USSR but used an USSR made Hull and Guns.

[Abaddon75 460]

Well france need something in its TT to fill up a bit more the SPAA line anyway

[CaID 8,996]

On 16/01/2021 at 07:51, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

I was more asking since Gaijin would never put an SPAA as an Premium or Event Vehicle

What rule forbidden it?

 

A few years ago the community through Gaijin would never add vehicles more modern than the early cold war, having a limite of date around 1970, and see now.

Not so long ago the community said there would be no jet with after burner, and see now.

Planese missiles, the chinese nation, flares, smoke, reactive armor, top rank premium, its all thing that was assumed by the community that would never happen until it happen. 

So why not a premium SPAA?

Edited January 17, 2021 by CaID

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

30 minutes ago, CaID said:

What rule forbidden it?

 

A few years ago the community through Gaijin would never add vehicles more modern than the early cold war, having a limite of date around 1970, and see now.

Not so long ago the community said there would be no jet with after burner, and see now.

Planese missiles, the chinese nation, flares, smoke, reactive armor, top rank premium, its all thing that was assumed by the community that would never happen until it happen. 

So why not a premium SPAA?

Because Premium SPAA would be received badly by the Community especially if it is an SPAA that is straight up better than its Tech Tree Counterpart

[Sternjaeger84 1,076]

Of course, +1

 

[CaID 8,996]

21 hours ago, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

Because Premium SPAA would be received badly by the Community especially if it is an SPAA that is straight up better than its Tech Tree Counterpart

I do not think that would stop gaijin.

 

It never did before

Edited January 18, 2021 by CaID