Jump to content

Buccaneer S.2B


Flame2512
 Share

Buccaneer S.2B  

165 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see the Buccaneer S.2B in game?

    • Yes
      156
    • No
      9
  2. 2. When should it be added?

    • It should be added as an improved version of the Buccaneer S.2 (better flares and Sidewinders), even if it is lacking some of it's more advanced weapon types at first
      112
    • It should only be added once laser guided / TV guided / anti-radiation weapons have been added to the game
      45
    • I Said "No" to the first question
      8


51v2VyF.png

 

Introduction

War Thunder is moving towards ever more advanced weapon systems (for example there are rumours of target designator pods from the recent update teaser video). With this in mind I would like to suggest the Buccaneer S.2B for the British aircraft tree, as a logical next step from the Buccaneer S.2 we currently have in game.

 

What was the Buccaneer S.2B?

Since before the Canberra entered service the RAF had been looking for its replacement. This led to the TSR-2 project (more on that in this excellent suggestion), which was eventually cancelled in favour of the F-111K, which was itself cancelled. This left the RAF some 18 years later still looking for a Canberra replacement. The RAF had been offered the Navy's Buccaneer early on as an alternative to the TSR-2 programme, however they had tuned it down for not meeting their requirements. Now with requirements having changed somewhat, and not having many options, the RAF decided to adopt an upgraded version of the Navy's Buccaneer S.2 aircraft.

 

What does it offer over the Buccaneer S.2?

In terms basic airframe the Buccaneer S.2B is essentially the same as the Buccaneer S.2. The main changes were RAF avionics, additional fuel stored in a bulged bomb bay door, and the option to carry more advanced weaponry (see next section). Another improvement added to the Buccaneer S.2B was the AN/ALE-40 chaff / flare dispensers. A pair of flare dispensers, each with 15 flares, were placed in the underside of the fuselage, just forward of the airbrake (see image below); in addition a pair of chaff dispensers, each with 30 chaff cartridges, were fitted to the wing pylons (like on the Phantoms).

Spoiler

74dUQkG.png

The Buccaneer S.2 in game has the option to carry a pair of experiment Microcell countermeasures pods on the outboard pylons; while the AN/ALE-40 dispensers on the S.2B would have less flares you would not have to forgo any ordnance in order to carry them (unlike the S.2 which loses two wing pylons to carry flares). In addition the placement of the flare dispensers on the S.2B would be more effective than the flare pods on the S.2 in game, and allow you to carry both Sidewinders and flares.

 

An advanced ECM pod could also be carried, however ECM is not implemented yet, so I will gloss over that for now.

 

Weapons

What sets the S.2B apart from the base S.2 is the more advanced weapons it can carry. While not all of these weapon types are currently in game, having the Buccaneer S.2B in the British tech tree will be very useful for when they do come. Particularly as the Buccaneer S.2B is in some cases the only British aircraft equipped with these types of weapons (at least until some much more modern aircraft are added).

 

Air-to-air missiles

As well as the AIM-9Bs you get on the S.2, the S.2B can also carry AIM-9Gs and AIM-9Ls. Obviously the AIM-9L is not available on fixed wing aircraft in game yet, but when all-aspect IR missiles are added to air battles a pair of AIM-9Ls will give the S.2B excellent self-defence capability. In the mean time a pair of AIM-9Gs would be a very welcome upgrade over the AIM-9Bs we currently have.

 

Bombs

In terms of unguided bombs your options are pretty much the same as the S.2 we currently have in game: up to 16,000 lb of 500 lb or 1,000lb bombs. However the S.2B can also carry a Pavespike target designator pod, allowing it to self designate targets for it's own 1,000 lb Paveway laser guided bombs, or designate targets for other friendly aircraft. While laser guided bombs are not in game yet the will likely come at some point.

 

Unguided rockets

There aren't any. Unfortunately the RAF did not use rockets on the Buccaneer.

 

Air-to-ground missiles

This is where stuff gets interesting. Unfortunately you do have to say goodbye to the AGM-12 Bullpups, but in return you get access to the Martel missile. Martel stands for "Missile, Anti-Radar and Television", as the name suggests it comes in both both Anti-radiation and TV guided versions. While neither type of weapon is currently in the game, they will be at some point (TV guidance has apparently been confirmed by the devs); and the Buccaneer S.2B is one of the only British aircraft to get these types of weapons. This would make having the Buccaneer S.2B necessary for Britain to have access to AR and TV missiles when they are added. Limited information is available online about the Martel, but it is a undoubtedly very large missile at 3.89 m (TV) or 4.14 m (AR) long, and weighing 574 kg (TV) or 535 kg (AR). The missile is also know to have a fairly long range; different sources give varying figures, but around 30 - 60 nautical miles (60 - 120 km), depending on launch conditions seems to be widely reported. The warhead of both missiles is widely reported to be 150 kg. Photos of the Martel can be seen below:

Spoiler

AR Martel

RAF_Museum_Cosford_-_DSC08468.JPG

 

TV Martel

Martel_TV-Guided_Missile_-_Elvington_-_B

 

The TV Martel is equipped with a Semi-Armour Piecing High Explosive warhead and impact fuse for use against hard targets. When the TV Martel is fired it climbs to an altitude above the firing aircraft and a TV image is displayed to the operator. The missile flies on a form of auto-pilot (the operator is allowed limited course correction) while the operator uses the missile's camera to identify the target; at this point they switch the missile into terminal mode. This gives them control over the azimuth of the missile, once the missile gets close enough to the target it enters a dive and gives the operator full control over the missile to guide it on to the target.

The AR Martel is equipped with a High-Explosive blast warhead and proximity fuse for use against enemy radars. The missile locks on to enemy radars (e.g. the radar of an anti-aircraft system); when it is fired the missile climbs to an altitude above the aircraft and automatically flies to the target. Once reaching the target it enters a steep dive and uses the proximity fuse to explode next to the target.

 

The Buccaneer S.2B can carry up to four AR Martel missiles, or three TV Martel missiles (one pylon is required for a data-link pod when carrying TV missiles). It is also possible to carry a mixed load of TV and AR missiles, as can be seen in the images below).

Spoiler

plOxEtJ.png

wtfeX5t.png

 

The Buccaneer S.2B also got access to the fire-and forget Sea Eagle missile, but this is an anti-shipping missile, so I won't talk about it.

 

Photos

Just some more photos of the Buccaneer S.2B

Spoiler

Hawker_Siddeley_Buccaneer_S2B,_UK_-_Air_

Hawker_Siddeley_Buccaneer_S2B,_UK_-_Air_

JcImI0h.jpg

r3QHZDV.jpg

zkeNfcR.png

cIuZ6RX.png

kg80VBt.png

 

Flight performance

The flight performance of the Buccaneer S.2B is pretty much identical to the Buccaneer S.2 we have in game already. It is slightly heavier due to the fuel in the bomb bay door, but that is about it.

 

To meet the requirements for performance information, here is the data from Airvectors

Spoiler

WmxGzAS.png


And Wikipedia

Spoiler

General characteristics

  • Crew: 2
  • Length: 63 ft 5 in (19.33 m)
  • Wingspan: 44 ft (13 m)
  • Height: 16 ft 3 in (4.95 m)
  • Wing area: 514 sq ft (47.8 m2)
  • Empty weight: 30,000 lb (13,608 kg)
  • Gross weight: 62,000 lb (28,123 kg)
  • Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Spey Mk.101 turbofan engines, 11,000 lbf (49 kN) thrust each

Performance

  • Maximum speed: 580 kn (670 mph, 1,070 km/h) at 200 ft (61 m)
  • Maximum speed: Mach 0.95
  • Range: 2,000 nmi (2,300 mi, 3,700 km)
  • Service ceiling: 40,000 ft (12,000 m)
  • Wing loading: 120.5 lb/sq ft (588 kg/m2)
  • Thrust/weight: 0.36
 

Conclusion

Even without any of the advanced weaponry the Buccaneer S.2B would still be a valuable improvement over the S.2, with it's better missiles, and better flare system. It is also one of the only British aircraft capable of carrying anti-radiation missiles, and possibly the only capable of carrying TV missiles; so when these types of weapons are added the Buccaneer S.2B will be a very important aircraft to have in the British tree.

 

Sources

AP101B-1202-15A BUCCANEER S Mk 2A and 2B AIRCREW MANUAL - FLIGHT SYSTEMS
AP101B-1202-15C BUCCANEER S Mk 2B AIRCREW MANUAL WEAPON SYSTEM (AVIONIC UPDATE)
AP101B-1202-16 BUCCANEER S Mk 2A & 2B OPERATING DATA MANUAL 

Wikipedia - Blackburn Buccaneer
Airvectors - The Blackburn Buccaneer
Thunder and Lightnings - Buccaneer

Edited by Flame2512
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 3
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Senior Suggestion Moderator

Open for discussion. :salute:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1, don't get why they didn't add a later Bucc considering they knew precision munitions were coming but its clearly needed. Honestly considering the bulged bomb bay door was not always fitted could simply be an upgrade for the base S.2 to just add the weapons.

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, UKoctane said:

+1, don't get why they didn't add a later Bucc considering they knew precision munitions were coming but its clearly needed. Honestly considering the bulged bomb bay door was not always fitted could simply be an upgrade for the base S.2 to just add the weapons.

 

Probably because the S.2B can't use bullpups or rocket pods. I guess they could have added both though.

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Flame2512 said:

 

Probably because the S.2B can't use bullpups or rocket pods. I guess they could have added both though.

Might be worth doing the S.2D so that it can come as an upgrade to the current S.2 then? I'm just not sure adding an entirely identical aircraft that just has Martels as well is the best course of action.

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, UKoctane said:

Might be worth doing the S.2D so that it can come as an upgrade to the current S.2 then? I'm just not sure adding an entirely identical aircraft that just has Martels as well is the best course of action.

 

The S.2D would be a bad idea. It is just a Buccaneer S.2 with Martel instead of Bullpup (a Buccaneer is either wired for Martel or Bullpup, it can't be both), and no flare pods (unless Gaijin want to give it the prototype pods again). By comparison the S.2B gets the AN/ALE-40 chaff / flare dispensers, access to the AIM-9G/L, access to laser guided bombs, access to the AN/ALQ-101 ECM pod, and access to both types of Martel.

 

The only thing the S.2D offers over the S.2B is the ability to carry 2" RN rockets (RP-3s would be long gone by the 1970s), and those rockets aren't massive amounts of use.

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Flame2512 said:

 

The S.2D would be a bad idea. It is just a Buccaneer S.2 with Martel instead of Bullpup (a Buccaneer is either wired for Martel or Bullpup, it can't be both), and no flare pods (unless Gaijin want to give it the prototype pods again). By comparison the S.2B gets the AN/ALE-40 chaff / flare dispensers, access to the AIM-9G/L, access to laser guided bombs, access to the AN/ALQ-101 ECM pod, and access to both types of Martel.

 

The only thing the S.2D offers over the S.2B is the ability to carry 2" RN rockets (RP-3s would be long gone by the 1970s), and those rockets aren't massive amounts of use.

In that case I guess we need to argue for the normal S.2 to get the Martel and then this would be a good "late bucc" addition too.

medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
3 hours ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

+1 , sadly the martel (tv) have to much range for what we have at the moment (between 6 and 10km) , maybe a jaguar with AS-30L could be the first british platform with an AGM

Unfortunately only French Jaguars used the AS-30L as far as I know. 

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Another good source would be "Typhoon to Typhoon: RAF Air Support Projects and Weapons since 1945" by Chris Gibson. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • 4 weeks later...

I, for one, would love to see the S.2B being added to the game - the current S.2 is a bit of a strange variation and we could really do with a fully-fledged RAF S.2 model in the game in order to make full use of the potential the Buccaneer has. 

 

Plus I'd finally be able to create 100% historical skins on the S.2 model ;) 

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

With laser guided bombs and even more air-to-ground weapons having been added this update I feel it really is about time we get the S.2B. I'll try and add some details on the capabilities of the pave-spike pod when I have time.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

With laser guided bombs and even more air-to-ground weapons having been added this update I feel it really is about time we get the S.2B. I'll try and add some details on the capabilities of the pave-spike pod when I have time.

Can't remember where exactly but I've seen a pilot interview where they say TIALD was trialed on Buccaneers. Pave spike would be pretty awful in comparison 

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Shrike142 said:

Can't remember where exactly but I've seen a pilot interview where they say TIALD was trialed on Buccaneers. Pave spike would be pretty awful in comparison 

 

Yeah I would need to read up on it but I gather it was quite limited. I'll see if I can find anything about TIALD on the Buccaneer.

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 30/10/2021 at 23:14, Shrike142 said:

Can't remember where exactly but I've seen a pilot interview where they say TIALD was trialed on Buccaneers. Pave spike would be pretty awful in comparison 

 

I've done some reading. Seems like Buccaneer XV344 was the one used for TIALD testing. A few sources mention TIALD being tested on a Buccaneer, with some specifying XV344. This website has the only photo I've been able to find of a Buccaneer with TIALD (resolution is pretty rubbish but it's all I can find):

bucc2.jpg

Edited by Flame2512
  • Like 2
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...