Type 86 100mm APFSDS for PTL02

[David Bowie 1,554]

Currently, the PTL02 uses the same ammo as the Type 69. 

 

But, PTL02 uses a gun that is an improved version of the Type 86 Anti-Tank Gun, so it uses different ammo from Type 69.

 

Does anyone have any information of the Type 86 100mm APFSDS?

 

I find this table and some pictures, but it wasn't enough for report.

 

Spoiler

Cutaway of Type 86 100mm APFSDS

 

Comparison of Type 86 100mm APFSDS and 105mm APFSDS

 

 

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

I've been trying to skim for sources and details on this shell as well. This and a 'Type 73 APFSDS'. Army Guide reads the following.

 

Quote

The Type 86 fires the following types of 100 mm fixed ammunition:

APFSDS Type 86 with a tungsten penetrator at a muzzle velocity of 1,610 m/s with an effective range of 1,800 m; when firing this round the maximum rate of fire is 4 to 5 rds/min

APDS Type 73 with a tungsten penetrator at a muzzle velocity of 1,500 m/s with an effective range of 1,700 m

HEAT Type 73 fin-stabilised projectile at a muzzle velocity of 1,010 m/s.

APFSDS Type 73 with tungsten alloy penetrator with a maximum direct fire range of 1,700 m

APFSDS Type 73 with the projectile having a length-to-diameter ratio of 13.3:1 and a maximum range in the direct fire role of 1,730 m

HE Type 73 fin-stabilised projectile at a muzzle velocity of 900 m/s with a maximum range of 13,700 m.

When firing these projectiles, the usual recoil length is between 1 and 1.14 m; maximum recoil length is 1.18 m.

 

The problem is, there is no sources for any of this, and no pictures either. 

 

I did find another picture of what is supposedly Type 73 APFSDS though.

 

 

Page 26 of this document also mentions a 'Type 73 HEAT'.

 

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/11117325/7-ammunition-table

 

 

This page mentions the following values as well.

 

Quote

100mm Type 73 APFSDS 150mm@[email protected]* 9

100mm Type 73 HEAT 380mm 8

100mm Type 86 APFSDS 150mm@65deg@2km* 9

 

Page 63 of this PDF lists a 100mm APFSDS round as well, but no name. It's possible it could be Chinese, given the relationship between China and Pakistan, but a lot of this here is guesswork.

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by EvaShogoki

[Merzhi 174]

1 hour ago, EvaShogoki said:

I've been trying to skim for sources and details on this shell as well. This and a 'Type 73 APFSDS'. Army Guide reads the following.

 

 

The problem is, there is no sources for any of this, and no pictures either. 

 

I did find another picture of what is supposedly Type 73 APFSDS though.

 

 

Page 26 of this document also mentions a 'Type 73 HEAT'.

 

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/11117325/7-ammunition-table

 

 

This page mentions the following values as well.

 

 

Page 63 of this PDF lists a 100mm APFSDS round as well, but no name. It's possible it could be Chinese, given the relationship between China and Pakistan, but a lot of this here is guesswork.

 

You should submit a bug report with what you've found. Usually with Chinese vehicles if you bring attention to the issue they'll have their research "experts" look into it more. ZTZ99 wouldn't have gotten DTW-125 if I hadn't pointed them in the right direction.

[David Bowie 1,554]

9 hours ago, Merzhi said:

You should submit a bug report with what you've found. Usually with Chinese vehicles if you bring attention to the issue they'll have their research "experts" look into it more. ZTZ99 wouldn't have gotten DTW-125 if I hadn't pointed them in the right direction.

we need more data (Weight, length, detailed photos) Without these data, they're not accepting reports.

[Merzhi 174]

3 hours ago, _David_Bowie_ said:

we need more data (Weight, length, detailed photos) Without these data, they're not accepting reports.

I also didn't with my DTW-125 report but a mod reached out to me and did further research to get the data. All I had was basic stats and images of the round. Which seems to be what is here. It still ended up getting added to the game.

[Laurelix 5,474]

On 25/02/2021 at 13:54, _David_Bowie_ said:

Currently, the PTL02 uses the same ammo as the Type 69. 

 

But, PTL02 uses a gun that is an improved version of the Type 86 Anti-Tank Gun, so it uses different ammo from Type 69.

 

Does anyone have any information of the Type 86 100mm APFSDS?

 

I find this table and some pictures, but it wasn't enough for report.

 

Hide contents

Cutaway of Type 86 100mm APFSDS

 

Comparison of Type 86 100mm APFSDS and 105mm APFSDS

 

 

Wait a second.... Could Type 69 shoot the M111?

[David Bowie 1,554]

1 hour ago, Laurelix said:

Wait a second.... Could Type 69 shoot the M111?

It's just a comparison

[Laurelix 5,474]

 

According to this M111 has 342mm LOS penetration at 2km against plate at 60 degrees. Your table shows 350mm, but more or less they agree on the general performance.

 

Seems like Type 86 APFSDS is recorded to have 400mm LOS penetration at 2km against a plate at 60 degrees. basically its DM33 105mm APFSDS level good

Edited February 27, 2021 by Laurelix

[Yontzee 1,676]

I’m glad someone is looking for this, I searched high and low when I created the PTL-02 suggestion. The PTL definitely uses more modern rounds I just didn’t have anything to prove it.

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

I found a few more pictures of 100mm APFSDS from here, here, and here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by EvaShogoki

[jet_17_49 411]

4 hours ago, EvaShogoki said:

I found a few more pictures of 100mm APFSDS from here, here, and here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok wow, penetration on what I think is a simulated early T-72 front plate from 3.5km away with a tungsten round and 4.4km with a uranium round.

 

The real question is, since the PTL shares rounds with the Type 69 in game, can we give these rounds to the Type 69 too if they get added? (joke)

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

5 hours ago, jetnawk said:

Ok wow, penetration on what I think is a simulated early T-72 front plate from 3.5km away with a tungsten round and 4.4km with a uranium round.

 

The real question is, since the PTL shares rounds with the Type 69 in game, can we give these rounds to the Type 69 too if they get added? (joke)

That would be hilarious, the Type 69 casually penetrating a T-72 frontally from 3 km away, especially since it is known for having the worst APFSDS round in game. 

 

I also found a picture of sabot rounds inside the PTL-02, from this page.

 

 

 

I've also noticed that the 1-72-85 round in game is modeled as long rod in the impact animation oddly.

 

For comparison, the T-55's 3BM25.

 

 

[SaekoB 2,053]

also as others already pointed out, a missing laser rangefinder should also be bug reported. 

[tiger7742 260]

I'm really happy that I'm not the only one that noticed this

[Serpy11@live 11]

1 hour ago, tiger7742 said:

I'm really happy that I'm not the only one that noticed this

Me too

[tiger7742 260]

I also found this article that says that it has gun launched ATGMs

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

I've been looking at some other pictures on this post, the left one is the Type 86, and the right one is some 105mm round I believe.

 

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

I found a Jane's book talking about 100mm smoothbore ammunition.

 

 

Here is the source.  https://archive.org/details/JanesArmouredFightingVehicleRetrofitSystems199394/page/n101/mode/2up

[CLOSE_RANGE 74]

On 21/04/2021 at 16:04, OddPhenomena said:

I found a Jane's book talking about 100mm smoothbore ammunition.

 

 

Here is the source.  https://archive.org/details/JanesArmouredFightingVehicleRetrofitSystems199394/page/n101/mode/2up

Good find! It's unfortunate that it only has the muzzle velocities though.

 

Also interesting is that it discusses 100 mm rifled APFSDS; I think there was some ambiguity over whether China ever produced APFSDS for its old 100 mm rifled guns, and this seems to fit the bill. Could be handy if Gaijin ever wants to pull the Type 69-IIA out of the files and replace its 3BM25 with a domestic dart.

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

26 minutes ago, CLOSE_RANGE said:

Good find! It's unfortunate that it only has the muzzle velocities though.

 

Also interesting is that it discusses 100 mm rifled APFSDS; I think there was some ambiguity over whether China ever produced APFSDS for its old 100 mm rifled guns, and this seems to fit the bill. Could be handy if Gaijin ever wants to pull the Type 69-IIA out of the files and replace its 3BM25 with a domestic dart.

I wish I could find some source that lists the shells, but if Gaijin ever changes the PTL-02's ammunition, it looks like they might have to do some guess work. I'd like to see the Type 69-IIA at some point as well, it could be pretty handy at 8.3 or so, though finding domestic ammunition for it will be a whole new can of worms. 

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

I've created a bug report post for it now, and the Technical Moderator Object187 posted some pictures from Jane's Weapons: Ammunition 2019-2020, so a very big thank you to them.

 

 

 

 

Here is the bug report.

 

[jet_17_49 411]

3 hours ago, OddPhenomena said:

I've created a bug report post for it now, and the Technical Moderator Object187 posted some pictures from Jane's Weapons: Ammunition 2019-2020, so a very big thank you to them.

 

 

 

 

Here is the bug report.

 

Oh yeah, I read the report. Really appreciate the effort!

[コタリ 2,733]

So according to the leak, the WMA-301 will be a new premium for China. So my question for those who have the PL-02 is how does it perform in terms of mobility, gun handling, optics (zoom/fov/thermal generation) survivability etc. The WMA-301 seems to mostly solve the firepower problem of the PL-02, so basically does that part being improved make the WMA a worthwhile investment over the T-69G?

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

10 hours ago, AnimeThighs said:

So according to the leak, the WMA-301 will be a new premium for China. So my question for those who have the PL-02 is how does it perform in terms of mobility, gun handling, optics (zoom/fov/thermal generation) survivability etc. The WMA-301 seems to mostly solve the firepower problem of the PL-02, so basically does that part being improved make the WMA a worthwhile investment over the T-69G?

I only have a few games in the PTL-02, so my word may not mean much, but I have test driven the reference version. In general, it doesn't perform as well as something like the Type 16 or Centauro mobility wise, its base is an APC chassis after all, but it is still very mobile going forwards, going backwards is much slower though. The ammunition is serviceable, but could be much better, as in real life it had improved 100mm rounds, which I've made a bug report on, linked above. I forget if the WMA301 has CITV, but it should be a general improvement over the PTL-02 we have in game anyways. It's a similar situation to the UK's tier 6 premiums if we do get the WMA301, you have a fast wheeled vehicle with little armor, and an MBT with a similar gun and no thermals but with armor that can bounce something.

[yummie_cheese_mm 11]

Update: on the dev server PTL-02 was given a laser rangefinder + a shell titled "100mm_dyw_pt_86_100" which is identical to the Type-59D1's Type-83 APDS, as well as a small reload buff from what I can tell.

 

Spoiler

 

Edit: They have also fixed the holes on the back of the turret armor

Edited May 22, 2021 by BillMoore