Tortoise is terrible at 6.7, constantly gets bumped to 7.3 and 7.7, needs to br moved down to 6.0 or fix your br compression

[MatthewDarkPR 12]

The tortoise has very thick frontal armour, designed to deflect AP and APHE shells. It was made during WW2 and was shipped to frontlines right at the end of the war. It is not a cold war tank. Whenever I play with it as 6.7, I constantly get bumped up to 7.0, 7.3, 7.7. At these BR's, tanks get HEAT and APDS rounds, rounds which go straight through the tortoises armour like butter. This makes playing the tortoise incredibely frustrating, because this cool looking fortress tank you were grinding for and spent money on, is absolutely ****, because its forced to fight against cold war tanks when its a WW2 tank. It usually moves between 10-18m/s depending on the terrain (20 if its a flat road). You spend half of the game trying to get to the fight, and when you get there, you are instantly deleted through your frontal armour by a leopard 1 with a HEAT round. It's ridiculous, and not fair at all.

 

So the tortoise needs to be moved to 6.0 with the centurion. It doesn't get APDS rounds. It does penetrate more than the centurion, however it gets deflected off angles a lot easier. Its round for example, APCBC has a 50% chance to richochet off 63' degree angles. Whereas the centurions APDS round has 50% chance to deflect off 78' angles. The tortoise is very slow, and its obvious weak spots are the side and back. If it gets flanked, it will die. It also has a weak spot in the machine gun turret mounted on top. APHE can penetrate it as its only 101mm thick. This usually kills the machine gunner, the driver and the loader. The tortoise is not an un-killable beast, it has weak spots and weaknesses.

 

The tortoise should be moved to 6.0 with the centurion, or even to 5.7 with the comet. As it currently stands, at 6.7 it constantly gets uptiered to BR's where they have HEAT and APDS. I know panther D players or tiger players may complain "well the comet gets apds at 5.7 and that goes right through my armour" however my response to that is, your max speeds range between 45km/h, to 55km/h. Whereas the tortoises max speed is 19km/h, usually moving slower than that. The tiger and panther D have the ability to position themselves and evade shots, the tortoise does not. Turning the tortoise is a cumbersome process. Shooting the tortoise from the front with a panther or tiger would do nothing. However using the speed that you have as a tiger or panther, you can flank to the sides of the tortoise and easily kill it. Or you can even shoot the machine gun turret on top with one of your early HEAT rounds, which pen 110mm, and take out 3 of the crewmembers, rince and repeat until they're all dead from shooting that one spot.

 

To conclude, the tortoise should be moved to br 5.7 or 6.0, as currently it gets uptiered to 7.0+, where it is useless, and a flip off to anyone who bought the tortoise.

[Bunny 宝妮 1,477]

Well, the main reason why tortoise is constantly bumped up to 7.3s/7,7s matches (like you claimed) is probably due to the main UK former BR 6.7 lineup is currently sitting at BR 7.3.

 

But, moving to 6.0? No, how can that thing belongs to anywhere lower than 6.3? That frontal armor is on par with Tiger IIs.

 

1 hour ago, MatthewDarkPR said:

It also has a weak spot in the machine gun turret mounted on top. APHE can penetrate it as its only 101mm thick. This usually kills the machine gunner, the driver and the loader.

Tiger II (P) is at 6.3, with a 100mm turret frontal armor (which is a bigger weakspot in my opinion) and less powerful gun.

 

I think the issue with tortoise is somewhat similar to that with Churchill Mk VII.

• For Churchill Mk VII, it is good armor but weak gun; decent in full downtier but useless in full uptier
• For Tortoise, it has good armor and good gun; really good in full downtier but somewhat useless in full uptier as well

 

I think this has to do with how the entire BR systems work really. If tortoise gets moved down to even a 6.0, nothing in the 5.0-5.7 range can do a thing against tortoise from front during full downtier. Sure you mentioned about the the machine gun turret, but tortoise have a gun that point-click-delete anything in 5.0-6.0 range. You don't even have to aim at all.

 

Having said that with 6.0, 5.7 (1 full BR drop) is pretty much out of question, next to impossible. Probably fun for tortoise players, but every player in the 4.7-5.3 will absolutely suffer because of this. Imaging moving Ferdinand from 6.3 down to 5.3 for 1 week (due to weaker gun and armor compared to tortoise), this forum will be exploding with "unbalance" & "fix BR" posts.

[MatthewDarkPR 12]

24 minutes ago, Exophobia said:

Well, the main reason why tortoise is constantly bumped up to 7.3s/7,7s matches (like you claimed) is probably due to the main UK former BR 6.7 lineup is currently sitting at BR 7.3.

 

But, moving to 6.0? No, how can that thing belongs to anywhere lower than 6.3? That frontal armor is on par with Tiger IIs.

 

Tiger II (P) is at 6.3, with a 100mm turret frontal armor (which is a bigger weakspot in my opinion) and less powerful gun.

 

I think the issue with tortoise is somewhat similar to that with Churchill Mk VII.

• For Churchill Mk VII, it is good armor but weak gun; decent in full downtier but useless in full uptier
• For Tortoise, it has good armor and good gun; really good in full downtier but somewhat useless in full uptier as well

 

I think this has to do with how the entire BR systems work really. If tortoise gets moved down to even a 6.0, nothing in the 5.0-5.7 range can do a thing against tortoise from front during full downtier. Sure you mentioned about the the machine gun turret, but tortoise have a gun that point-click-delete anything in 5.0-6.0 range. You don't even have to aim at all.

 

Having said that with 6.0, 5.7 (1 full BR drop) is pretty much out of question, next to impossible. Probably fun for tortoise players, but every player in the 4.7-5.3 will absolutely suffer because of this. Imaging moving Ferdinand from 6.3 down to 5.3 for 1 week (due to weaker gun and armor compared to tortoise), this forum will be exploding with "unbalance" & "fix BR" posts.

Actually you do have to aim with the tortoise gun, it's not just point and click, you have to range find... You can't really kill jagpanzers from the front with most vehicles, you have to go to their side, tortoise should be the same. It's really slow speed and slow turning speed further cements this, its easy to flank. 6.0 is good for the tortoise. The tortoises shells will bounce off a tiger 2 p and panther D's frontal sloped armour 50% of the time due to the angle.

 

Another big weak spot of the tortoise, the lower glasis, where its transmission is. It's a big and easy target, and one shot from the german composite rigid shell can take it out. Then the tortoise cant turn and you can flank it a lot easier.

Edited March 18, 2021 by MatthewDarkPR

[DrPhibes1 777]

Compare the tortoise and the ferdinand, the ferdi is superior on everything but side armour and a negligable amount of pen.

[Gdsryrox 106]

While I do agree that the Tortoise should have a lower br, I think 6.0 is a little to much, 6.3 would make more sense, putting it on par with the Ferdinand 

[CoffeeBean100 2,896]

It's all part of lineup risk/reward.

 

In the Uptier you use the FVBarn and the Charioteer after expending the Ratel 20, then if need be and time allows the Tortoise can come late and possibly avoid harder hitters. Plus you support the higher BR players and hope they can compete to allow your support to be worthwhile.

 

The Tortoise has the same issue as the BP; too darn slow!

[Matt_82 1,096]

It does seem a bit silly, sitting at the same BR as the likes of the ST-A3.  6.3 seems reasonable.  6.0 would be fine as well, tbh. It's a slow as hell castmate TD. It should expect to be a tough nut to crack.

[IIIWolfeIII 177]

As a Black Prince commander I really can tell that the magic number is 6.0~ and that´s where I would put the Tortoise, too.

One could argue that it´s getting OP when down matched, but down matching is a lie anyway once you start to have fun in this game.

The least that should be done is 6.3 since the current BR is plain bullying~ 

[qpranger 1,887]

Tortoise should be 5.7.

[Whiskey_077 1,785]

On 22/10/2021 at 08:21, qpranger said:

Tortoise should be 5.7.

 

6.3 would be fine, with the Chariooter. 

[DrPhibes1 777]

The tortoise is far worse than the ferdinand, it has frontal weakspots that are above the gun so they can be used with very limited risk to player's and are vulnerable to panthers 75s and that's excluding the cupolas that most APHE shells can exploit. 

 

6.7 is a joke for it, maybe it if received APDS it could potentially be okay but having it at the same BR as the jagtiger and obj 260? (Think that's the one) that it can do nothing against have better armour and are faster is infuriating.

Edited November 2, 2021 by DrPhibes1

[Jarms 1,558]

The Tortoise just needs the better ammo. Until it gets it though it should drop to 6.3. 

[DrPhibes1 777]

16 hours ago, Jarms said:

The Tortoise just needs the better ammo. Until it gets it though it should drop to 6.3. 

 

Fine? What does it have over the jagtiger or obj 260! Really should be 6.3 or lower its just not good enough.

 

It's only strength is crew size and field of fire that are still not great. Sitting in the open is a death trap that both the others can do relatively okay until heat slingers come the tortoise is significantly vulnerable to pretty much all guns at its BR, has spots with the same thickness of the Churchill 7 on the front above the gunner! 

 

I moan about the tortoise every chance I get as its one of the most painful grinds I've experienced in this game.

[EddieVanHalo@live 880]

The Tortoise heavy assault tank (A39) was never used in WW2 or any where else for that matter . It was far too heavy and far too slow and in reality utterly ridiculous . This is another example of introducing a ridiculous prototype or fantasy vehicle  to fill gaps in the tech tree.So many times on this forum somebody complains about a Vehicle being terrible to  use in the game when it was terrible to use in real life hence why it wasn't.War Thunder goes all out to recreate vehicles and can on occasion reproduce the faults that were present in reality.

It's a similar complaint to the T26E5 which was another vehicle that never saw service either.People also complain it is too slow in game just as it was in reality due to being  five tons overweight. When you actually check the history of many vehicles in War Thunder it's amazing to find how many never saw a days service in combat in reality due to various reasons some of which don't matter in game such as crew conditions/reliability  or maybe some that do like armour,weight issues or simply being unable to match what else was around at the time and becoming irrelevant and outdated.

 

In my opinion this is also another reason why WW2 should be just WW2 and end at 6.7 with no uptier . Cold War Era should start at 7.0  with no down tier . Jagdtiger/ Tiger 2  should be 6.7 max as would be all WW2 . 

Things( Mistakes lol ) like the R3,Concept 3/Ystervark would become the reserve vehicles of 7.0 Cold war or just be used as fast vehicles such as the Puma/Bt 5 or M22 are used above their BR throughout  the game. 

 

 

 

[Thodin 6,784]

Like the Jagdtiger. I don't play it. Simple fix. 

[EddieVanHalo@live 880]

33 minutes ago, Thodin said:

Like the Jagdtiger. I don't play it. Simple fix. 

I wouldn't touch it either   . Only thing that puts me  off the Jagdtiger is the cold war vehicles  I know it will have to face . I stop at 5.7 and still have to endure vehicles like the Walker Bulldog and other cold war items all facing my poor old Cobra King .

[Matt_82 1,096]

I don't think anyone touches it. I've been playing quite a bit around 6.7 and I couldn't tell you when I last saw it. Only 247 matches on TS as well.  The small numbers probably contribute to the BR staying at 6.7. It'll only be played by good players.

[WhipperSnipper 284]

I've had about a dozen games with it and I must agree, this thing is a heap of ****. 90% of the time its fighting IS3's and Tiger 2's that easily blow it up in 1 hit, its gun is nothing special and the reload is slow for a big crew. 

 Also its like a Maus, once the enemy knows you're in the area they fall over themselves in trying to kill you. It's the biggest bomber magnet ever.

 

Has to be the most frustrating to play tank ever, yet the devs don't care its completely outclassed at its current tier. 

 

edit, can I have a refund on the SL and time I wasted grinding for this heap of crap?

Edited January 20, 2022 by OmgWtfBBQ

[gives_no_Fs 337]

Tortoise is just a terrible vehicle in general. Rarely can it even use the geometry of a map to make itself stand out and do its job. Consider it one of the rest of the garbage-heavies that can only shine in a downtier, which happens to be a lot of tanks in the Brit tree, suffer in the middle, and be a waste in an uptier. Consider it one of the vehicles you buy just to move along in the tech tree. One that don't belong in any kind of meta and BR adjustments would only make life worse for the other players like 3" Gun Carrier (though now with all these German tanks mysteriously dropping way down in BR I'm not sure).

 

The extremely rare few times I've had a full downtier in Maus and come upon a Tortoise I wish I'd been able to send a secret message to that player asking for a truce, saying they can hide with my body so that they can earn any points at all.

[WhipperSnipper 284]

Decided to give it one more go. The worst possible map came on, Red Desert in RB mode....

 Fun spending 10 minutes crawling at 11kph across the desert to the 1.5km cap zone only to get rocket killed by a jet just as you finally get to the action. I was so peeved I quit out after 1 tank loss. 

 

 

[Rieskaruisku 506]

Monthly reminder that we need to suggest lower BR for Tortoise in the current thread.

 

[WhipperSnipper 284]

I actually saw one in an arcade game yesterday, it was probably the first Tortoise I've seen in months. Anyway my tin can Ratal 90 blew him to bits in 1 hit from over 1k away. Felt sorry for him as he has driven a long way to the cap area on a desert map.. Certainly a completely useless tank at that tier with so many vehicles packing Heat these days. Even it's gun is nothing special.

[Ghost_Rider12 4,501]

I saw one in an RB battle for the first time in months yesterday. He was sat at the back sniping and doing ok   mind you this was a 7.7 battle. Have not played the Tortoise since I unlocked it all those years ago when the British tanks arrived

 

Not sure its a 6.7 tank but Its deffo not a 6.0 tank. In its current form it might do ok at 6.3. I did read at some point that there was an APDS round tested for its 32 pounder gun I'll have to hit the books and see if I can find any info on it again.

[PaK2704 186]

Just skipped over the Tortoise wasnt really worth the pain.

[Ghost_Rider12 4,501]

Posting this here in case anyone is interested. There was an APDS round developed for the Tortoise and there is likely reasonable evidence that the tanks current AP round may be underperforming. There are a number of documents in the UK's National Archives on this subject (supposidly A.R.D Terminal Ballistics Report No 16/46 and Tortoise development and costs folder)

 

I'd look into it myself but I am unable to do so.