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PATAGON Tank  

39 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see this vehicle in the game?

    • Yes.
      38
    • No.
      1
  2. 2. Where should this vehicle go? (Multiple choice since players might agree to have it on the GER or FRA trees first and then in the ARG)

    • German Tree
      18
    • French Tree
      21
    • Future Argentine tree
      18
    • I voted no
      2
  3. 3. Should this vehicle be?

    • Researchable
      27
    • Premium
      7
    • Gift/Event
      4
    • I voted no
      1
  4. 4. In What BR it should sit at?

    • 7.0
      5
    • 7.3
      10
    • 7.7
      11
    • 8.0
      12
    • I voted no
      1


The PATAGON Tank

PATAGON1.png

Introduction:

Spoiler

Since we receive the Argentine version of the SK-105A2, i thought it was good idea to suggest the Patagon, this is a unique modification of the vehicle made in argentina, using surplus turrets taken from phased out AMX-13s and fitting them with Sk-105 hulls. The vehicle could fall into 2 trees that are already in game, in one side the German tree (accompanying the other Sk-105) and in the other into the French tree (since this vehicle uses a lot of french components from the go), a third option could see this vehicle in a future Argentine Tree, although this would take a long time to implement. Whether it could a Researchable, Premium, Gift or an Event vehicle, this could be a great addition for players wanting to see another variant of the Kurassier. The Patagon itself will find itself having a similar performance to the SK-105A1 (not in game, but similar to the A2 but lacking Thermals, APFSDS and other modern equipment) thus why it will sit at a lower BR.  

 

 

Please take into account that information about this vehicle is quite scarce, with most articles on the internet stating the same thing that it was posted years ago.   

History:

Spoiler

This vehicle was conceived from the union of AMX-13 turrets and SK-105 Hulls, both (AMX and SK) vehicles had been purchased in the late 60s/70s and early 80s respectably, the AMX-13s were upgraded and up-gunned in argentina, they were fitted the CN-105-57 gun, the same gun that was being produced by FM (Fabricaciones Militares) in argentina, who were fitting the same guns to the Sherman Repotenciados and also producing ammo for them, the AMX-13s also received IR equipment and other minor additions, like speakers in the turret to talk to infantry from the inside of the turret (the upgrade focused more on the engine and transmission change). On the other side of the spectrum the Sk-105 arrived to argentina in 1981 and a second batch in 1982, the vehicle used the same turret the AMX had, and also the same gun, but its performance on harsh terrains was superior, later in their lives a unknown number of SK-105s would be upgraded to the A2 standard.

The AMX-13s were deployed to the humid parts of argentina, while the Kurassiers were sent south to the Patagonia, an extremely harsh terrain where they performed quite well. 

 

With the arrival of the 2000s, the now old and worn AMX-13s were being phased out, mostly because of the components of the chassis (engine, transmission, suspension) were completely worn out and there was no interest in actually upgrade/modernize them. On the other hand the SK-105s continued their service, most of this vehicles had no problems during their deployment since Argentina had installations to Refurbish or repair any of the Kurassiers. An idea was proposed by at the time the Chief of the Army was to "recycle" the mostly well preserved Turrets of the retired AMX-13s with brand new chassis of SK-105s. The result of this was simply a tank comparable to the SK-105A1, using the same gun, turret, but having different components inside it (Optics, FCS, NVG devices). A batch of Brand new hulls from Austria was ordered, while personnel in Argentina worked to refurbish the FL-12 Turrets from the AMXs, who didn't saw much of a change in terms of updates, all that it had was reconstructed and then fitted into the Hull of the Kurassier. 

 

It was projected to build most of them in a new plant localized in Comodoro Rivadavia, with supervision of the Steyr company from Austria, there the Turrets would be refurbished and then placed on the new Steyr hulls. The Project was not ambitious, and only estimated a cost of less than half a million dollars per vehicle, with time passing and the first prototypes made, it was noted that the cost of each vehicle greatly exceded the budget assigned to the program, this was attributed to the cost of the Brand new hulls that costed 600k alone, this raised doubts and the project was deemed financially unviable and cancelled in 2008. 

 

The story gets a bit obscure from here, all 5 units produced were given to the army and then they were deployed, probably in the north of argentina, they can be spotted in between the 120+ Sk-105s that argentina has in its inventory, some sources state that the vehicles were stored and others that a few continue serving along side the Kurassiers, they can be spotted since their turret lack a prominent bulge in the back (just below the IR lamp) and having only 4 smoke launchers compared to 6 in the regular tanks. Sadly with the webs on their barrels and covering their turrets is hard to distinct the Patagones from the regular A1s.

 

Specs:

Spoiler

Here we will take a look at all the Technical specifications of the vehicle, dimensions, armor, armament, etc.

Crew:

Commander

Driver

Gunner

 

Weight:

Empty: 16.3 Tons

Loaded weight: 17.5 Tons

 

Dimensions:

Length: 7.76m 

Width: 2.5m

Height: 2.41m

 

Mobility:

Power to weight ratio: 18,3 HP/ton

Max speed on road: 67,7 Km/h

Time to get to 32Km/h: 10 sec

Maximun elevation:

Frontal: 75% 

Side: 40% 

Vertical Obstacles: 0.8m

Engine:

Diesel Inline 6, Max power at 2.300rpm 235kw (320hp). 

Gears: 6 Forward, 1 Reverse.

 

Armament:

Gun: CN-105mm Mod 57 (CN-105-57)

Caliber: 105mm

Ammo:

OCC-105-61(HEAT)

OE-105-60 (HE)

Smoke rounds (Made by Fabricaciones militares)

APDS? (Awaiting confirmation)

Ammo Capacity: 32 Shots, 12 rounds in the turret carousel (Same as the SK-105), 7 in the turret's basket and 13 in the Hull.

Turret's mobility: 360º

Turret's rotation speed: 30º/sec (horizontal) 20º/sec (vertical)

Elevation/Depression: +13º/-6º

Secondary armament: x2 7.62 Machine guns (turret and AA)

Ammo: 4600 rounds for both guns

 

Optics:

Commander: M212 ( Day and night, Zoom 6.25 and 1.6)

Gunner: M213 (Day and night, Zoom 7.5, Infrared capable)

Driver: L194D (Day and night, Infared capable) 

 

Armor:

10-40mm (similar to SK-105)

 

Other:

4 Smoke launchers (2 reloads)

Commander's spotlight

Pictures:

Spoiler

Sources:

 

 

Edited by OsO73
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  • Upvote 2
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  • Suggestion Moderator

Hello OsO73,

 

Thank you for your suggestion submission, however as it stands the suggestion doesn't meet our minimum guidelines as it lacks 'no' options on poll questions 2-4.

 

On 22/06/2018 at 12:21, CokeSpray said:

ZPje0i2.png Please Do NOT :

 

Naturally, there are also a few things you should try to avoid at all times. Those things are the following:

 

Create polls that don't include a "Negative" or "No" answer

While polls offer a good and simple way for individuals to quickly express their stance on a subject, without having to elaborate it in detail, there are ways to manipulate polls to always show a desired result. To avoid having an unfair voting system, make sure to  always include a negative option to a question so that it's fair and unbiased. If this requirements isn't met, the thread author will be notified and the poll will be altered to provide a fair voting system.

 

I have edited your poll to make it complaint with forum rules.

 

Open for discussion.

 

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5 minutes ago, Miki_Hoshii said:

Hello OsO73,

 

Thank you for your suggestion submission, however as it stands the suggestion doesn't meet our minimum guidelines as it lacks 'no' options on poll questions 2-4.

 

 

I have edited your poll to make it complaint with forum rules.

 

Open for discussion.

 

Thank you!, I’m sorry that I forgot to add them !!

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9 hours ago, OsO73 said:

[...]

Ammo:

OCC-105-61(HEAT)

OE-105-60 (AP?)

HE

APDS? (Awaiting confirmation)

[...]

Of course +1 in French TT in the wait of Argentinian TT/Line


Basically the gun is a shorter version of the AMX30 gun, with muzzle brake and the round modified to reduce the recoil, but theoretically it's the same rounds with less punch, like for the AMX 10 RC we already have ingame, maybe with some differences I'm not a specialist.

 

Just a little bit of help on Ammo names
OCC you got it right "Obus Charge Creuse" = HEAT
OE means "Obus Explosif" = HE

APDS I don't know if Argentina designed some ammo of their own or if some french company proposed some other kind of rounds for export variants, french army never get such rounds in service. But APFSDS sure there is some : they should be called OFL for "Obus FLèche" (= arrow round).
Also there should be OFUM as smoke (FUMigène) round, and OECL (ECLairant) as lighting round (it could be a nice idea now we have night battles with lighting flares comming from the sky, giving this option to players placing their own spotlight during battle :D )

sources :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN-105-57
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-30#Munitions

(the last one is in french, sorry but the english one was inaccurate and lacking a lot of info, you can use google to translate ;) also the values of pen may be some propaganda/exagerated advertisement, I'm not sure)

Edited by Abaddon75
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9 minutes ago, Abaddon75 said:

Of course +1 in French TT in the wait of Argentinian TT/Line


Basically the gun is a shorter version of the AMX30 gun, with muzzle brakes and the round modified to reduce the recoil, but theoretically it's the same rounds with less punch, like for the AMX 10 RC we already have ingame, maybe with some differences I'm not a specialist.

 

Just a little bit of help on Ammo names
OCC you got it right "Obus Charge Creuse" = HEAT
OE means "Obus Explosif" = HE

APDS I don't know if Argentina designed some ammo of their own or if some french company proposed some other kind of rounds for export variants, french army never get such rounds in service. But APFSDS sure there is some : they should be called OFL for "Obus FLèche" (= arrow round).
Also there should be OFUM as smoke (FUMigène) round, and OECL (ECLairant) as lighting round (it could be a nice idea now we have night battles with lighting flares comming from the sky, giving this option to players placing their own spotlight during battle :D )

sources :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN-105-57
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMX-30#Munitions

(the last one is in french, sorry but the english one was inaccurate and lacking a lot of info, you can use google to translate ;) also the values of pen may be some propaganda/exagerated advertisement, I'm not sure)

Ive read that the AMX-13s (same case for the Shermans with the same gun) after being upgraded got access to armor pricing rounds, but the source was pretty vague about it, i might need to search a bit more about it, but as far as i know the CN-105 couldn't fire APFSDS unless it had the modified muzzle brake, so for now the tank might only have HE, Smoke and HEAT. Thanks for the translation !

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Why the Germany option though :lol2:

On 29/03/2021 at 12:14, OsO73 said:

Ive read that the AMX-13s (same case for the Shermans with the same gun) after being upgraded got access to armor pricing rounds, but the source was pretty vague about it, i might need to search a bit more about it, but as far as i know the CN-105 couldn't fire APFSDS unless it had the modified muzzle brake, so for now the tank might only have HE, Smoke and HEAT. Thanks for the translation !

APDS was tested on the 75mm versions, and APFSDS on later versions of the 105mm version, but most export AMX-13s and derivatives such as this one only fired the obus G HEAT for anti tank purposes.

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27 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

 

Why the Germany option though :lol2:

 

Well, after getting the Argentine SK-105A2 (+ the TAMs) having the Patagon in the German tree would kinda make sense (kinda), dont get me wrong, but gaijin kinda found a soft spot there, since there are quite a few argentine vehicles that can also be added (mainly other TAM derivatives or even the Nahuel...well idk about that). I wouldn't be surprised if Gaijin decides to add another TAM or an Argentine SK-105A1 to the German tree.

But still, i would have preferred to have the Argentine version in the French tree to later see the Patagon for the Fench rather than for the Germans.

27 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

APDS was tested on the 75mm versions, and APFSDS on later versions of the 105mm version, but most export AMX-13s and derivatives such as this one only fired the obus G HEAT for anti tank purposes.

Im almost sure that the Argentine AMX-13s never got APDS or any other kinetic round, but it could be the FM (Fabricaciones Militares) could have tested or made special ammo for them (but im not sure about it).

Edited by OsO73
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1 minute ago, OsO73 said:

Well, after getting the Argentine SK-105A2 (+ the TAMs) having the Patagon in the German tree would kinda make sense (kinda), dont get me wrong, but gaijin kinda found a soft spot there, since there are quite a few argentine vehicles that can also be added (mainly other TAM derivatives or even the Nahuel...well idk about that). But still, i would have preferred to have the Argentine version in the French tree to later see the Patagon for the Fench rather than for the Germans.

The nation choices for the two SK-105 variants were weird, but the "Austria is closer to Germany" argument that was used there applies even less here, since the turrets aren't even license-built turrets anymore, but french-built turrets.

4 minutes ago, OsO73 said:

Im almost sure that the Argentine AMX-13s never got APDS or any other kinetic round, but it could be the FM (Fabricaciones Militares) could have tested or made special ammo for them (but im not sure about it).

Yeah the APDS I mentionned was tested in France, and never saw production.

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On 30/03/2021 at 13:16, Cedjoe said:

Yeah the APDS I mentionned was tested in France, and never saw production.

Oh! and could we have it in game? at least for the HOT at 8.0 who needs a little buff for it's old 75... the brit's have their protoype of AAM on their jets so why not same treatment for other country?

Edited by Abaddon75
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8 hours ago, Abaddon75 said:

Oh! and could we have it in game? at least for the HOT at 8.0 who needs a little buff for it's old 75... the brit's have their protoype of AAM on their jets so why not same treatment for other country?

It would be nice indeed.

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