Nexter 120mm Shard Round for the Ariete

[arpitmkn 2,743]

DISCLAIMER:

Spoiler

So, the Ariete never shot this round, but seeing that Gaijin now decided to add ammunitions to vehicles just because said vehicle could use it, I decided to ask for the newest APFSDS  that could be used by the Ariete.

I asked Smin and he said it is A-OK to ask for it, here the note he added to my post when i asked if the Shard would be good to suggest and he said yes:

Smin1080p (Posted Friday at 23:24)

You can make a suggestion topic for it.

Hi everybody,

today I'm here to suggest the new APFSDS ammunition by Nexter, the Shard, for the C1 Ariete.

 

History

Recently Nexter has presented their latest APFSDS round, the Shard, the article that can be found on Nexter  website has been released the 9th of March 2021, in it is detailed many of the characteristics of the round with some background on its development. In said article in the list of tanks capable of firing this round there is also the C1 Ariete of the Italian Army.

This new round should be the best that the western tank industry can offer, but we will talk more in depth about the capabilities of the round in a little bit.

At the time of speaking the latest test on the round was on hot climates and Nexter said that the round performed exactly as expected by the simulations.

 

Design

So the new Shard has a lot of new design features such as an optimized sabot, an elongated rod in a new tungsten alloy developed with Plansee Tungsten Alloys, as well as a combustible cartridge case and a high-performance, low-erosion propellant developed by EURENCO.

 

Performance

Nexter in its own article states that:

"this ammunition sets a new performance standard, with increased penetration capacity combined with very high accuracy."

And also:

"This very high level of performance is permitted thanks to a totally innovative design, defined by Nexter Munitions' technical teams at Bourges. SHARD® achieves this level of terminal ballistic performance thanks to an optimized sabot, an elongated rod in a new tungsten alloy developed with Plansee Tungsten Alloys, as well as a combustible cartridge case and a high-performance, low-erosion propellant developed by EURENCO."

 

Data taken from: https://www.nexter-group.fr/sites/default/files/fichiers-catalogue-produit/120MM.pdf

 

Why do i want this in game?

The C1 Ariete and the Ariete PSO at this time is the least armored MBT at BR 10.3 and 10.7, so the trade off is to have a lot of firepower in exchange for the armor, seeing that now the Leopard 2A6 has both a more powerful round and better armor, I think that it is time for the Ariete to get a new, more powerful round, so that the Arietes are again the tanks with the most penetration.

 

Photo

 

Source

https://www.nexter-group.fr/en/actualites/nos-dernieres-actualites/120-shardr-new-generation-anti-tank-ammunition.html

https://www.aresdifesa.it/nuova-generazione-di-munizionamento-anticarro-120-shard-di-nexter

Edited April 10, 2021 by arpitmkn

[Miki_Hoshii 2,449]

Open for discussion.

[eleks12 1,079]

Sure +1. Give it to the last Top Tier Ariete.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

Major +1 the Other Factions should have some sort of advantage compared to The Big Three Top Tier MBT's

Edited April 10, 2021 by Cpt_Jack_Irons

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

+1
100%, make the ariete competetive again.

[Iskads 104]

+1

Gotta retake the throne for the best round in the game!

Edited April 13, 2021 by Iskads

[ConroeDoctrine 133]

+1

As of right now, the Arietes are the least competitive top tier MBTs. Basically unarmoured and with mediocre velocity, their hard penning rounds where the only thing that kept them competitive in the past, so for balance's sake i feel like this is a needed addition.

[S__bastienZ88 635]

+1 for balancing high tier.

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

I think only the top one should get this round, either PSO or AMV (if it comes soon).

 

[spacesoldier117 876]

On 11/04/2021 at 00:55, _Condottiero_ said:

I think only the top one should get this round, either PSO or AMV (if it comes soon).

 

The first proto AMV is going to be shown this year and the other 2 next year so I wouldn't hold my breath for them, at least for now.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

I don't think the AIM-9J being given to the german F-4F is enough of a justification to once again give another nation some french technology that they never used, especially since this one wasn't even trialed by the French army yet. If you find some german armament with a similar compatibility, feel free to ask for it instead, since they're the ones always benefiting from these "technology exchanges" (VT-1 for exemple).

Italy already got the Mistral from France on both the SIDAM and Mangusta although I never found any pictures showing these loadouts, only ads.

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

38 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

Italy already got the Mistral from France on both the SIDAM and Mangusta although I never found any pictures showing these loadouts, only ads.

For the Mangusta, it was tested with mistral so it can use it, therefore it has it in game.

[arpitmkn 2,743]

54 minutes ago, Cedjoe said:

I don't think the AIM-9J being given to the german F-4F is enough of a justification to once again give another nation some french technology that they never used, especially since this one wasn't even trialed by the French army yet. If you find some german armament with a similar compatibility, feel free to ask for it instead, since they're the ones always benefiting from these "technology exchanges" (VT-1 for exemple).

Italy already got the Mistral from France on both the SIDAM and Mangusta although I never found any pictures showing these loadouts, only ads.

So only because it is French technology it shouldn’t be in other tech trees? What about the AIM-9 that is on French aircrafts, with your rule of thought, France shouldn’t have such missiles because those are American missiles.

does it makes sense to you? 

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

5 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

So only because it is French technology it shouldn’t be in other tech trees? What about the AIM-9 that is on French aircrafts, with your rule of thought, France shouldn’t have such missiles because those are American missiles.

does it makes sense to you? 

 

He meant other nations shouldn't STILL be getting French tech BEFORE France does. And you know that's what he meant.

After that, fine, let the sharing begin!

 

But, to date, France still does not have a ground vehicle with Milan, Mistral, TML-105, VT-1, and on and on.

Now, this isn't me whining about it, just pointing out a fact.

 

But, the fact Italy has never used the round, let alone anyone else for that matter, doesn't help it's case much, honestly.

 

If they get it, then fine, just another thing to add to the list.

[nxdefiant001 1,397]

18 hours ago, arpitmkn said:

So only because it is French technology it shouldn’t be in other tech trees? What about the AIM-9 that is on French aircrafts, with your rule of thought, France shouldn’t have such missiles because those are American missiles.

does it makes sense to you? 

 

France used the AIM-9s it gets

The same way Italy gets AIM-9s it used

 

Italy does not use SHARD

Italy did not participate in prototyping SHARD

Italy does not produce SHARD

 

Therefore why would Italy get a round it does not use, make or prototyped ?

Edited April 13, 2021 by nxdefiant001

[Nicholas_Concu 2,634]

3 minutes ago, nxdefiant001 said:

Therefore why would Italy get a round it does not use, make or prototyped ?

For balance, as mentioned in the post, the top tier MBT's dont offer much compared to other nations, giving it a stronger round would at least be an incentive for people to actually use such vehicles.

[arpitmkn 2,743]

12 minutes ago, LeGrandSarrazin said:

French tech BEFORE France does

Well, the French got the Mistral before Italy because it got it on the helicopters, so his point doesn’t stand.

12 minutes ago, LeGrandSarrazin said:

But, the fact Italy has never used the round, let alone anyone else for that matter, doesn't help it's case much, honestly.

Well, Germany and US gets weaponry that the respective vehicle never used just because said vehicle “could use it” well, Nexter list the Shard as a round capable of being used by the Ariete, so by the rules set by Gaijin (yes I asked the staff if you bothered reading my suggestion) it is fair game. 
if you are not okay with the rules set by Gaijin, go complain on the right topic, not here.

11 minutes ago, nxdefiant001 said:

Italy does not use SHARD

Italy did not participate in prototyping SHARD

Italy does produce SHARD

 

Therefore why would Italy get a round it does not use, make or prototyped ?

I won’t bother explaining it again, so I’ll just copy paste the answer:

“Germany and US gets weaponry that the respective vehicle never used just because said vehicle “could use it” well, Nexter list the Shard as a round capable of being used by the Ariete, so by the rules set by Gaijin (yes I asked the staff if you bothered reading my suggestion) it is fair game. 
if you are not okay with the rules set by Gaijin, go complain on the right topic, not here.”

 

please stop going off topic or I’ll ask the staff to clean up the mess you all are causing, this is not the place to talk about Mistral, VT-1 and not even your tanks.

Edited April 12, 2021 by arpitmkn

[LeGrandSarrazin 753]

23 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

Well, the French got the Mistral before Italy because it got it on the helicopters, so his point doesn’t stand.

We both were specifically talking about ground vehicles in that case, come on man, don't be disingenuous. Italy is still the only nation in-game to have Mistrals on a ground vehicle.

23 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

Well, Germany and US gets weaponry that the respective vehicle never used just because said vehicle “could use it”

And Italy got Mistrals on the Mangusta, "because they could use them." Yet, to this day Italy has used ZERO Mistrals in active service. Only using stingers. Welcome to the club.

23 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

Nexter list the Shard as a round capable of being used by the Ariete

All NATO cannons can use the same ammo case dimensions. That is by design. So, it being listed is not surprising in the slightest, since Nexter would like to sell as many rounds as possible to as many NATO members as possible. Although, no one has yet to procure them, even the French army.

I mean, you could even ask for DM73, or M829A2, since the Ariete can fire all of those rounds as well, being NATO compatible.

23 minutes ago, arpitmkn said:

so by the rules set by Gaijin (yes I asked the staff if you bothered reading my suggestion) it is fair game. 
if you are not okay with the rules set by Gaijin, go complain on the right topic, not here.

Yes, I did "bother" to read your suggestion, surprise. Ofc Smin told you to make a suggestion. You can make a suggestion on anything. The Ariete can fire SHARD, the same as any other NATO round. So ofc it is "possible."

Now, does it make sense, or will it ever happen!? Idk.

We'll see.

You're free to suggest anything you want man, but expect controversial topics to bring controversy.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by LeGrandSarrazin

[arpitmkn 2,743]

20 minutes ago, LeGrandSarrazin said:

And Italy got Mistrals on the Mangusta, "because they could use them." Yet, to this day Italy has used ZERO Mistrals in active service. Only using stingers. Welcome to the club.

Not really, I think you haven’t done enough research, there are pictures of the mangusta with the mistrals on, but there are no pictures of German F-4F (early) with AIM-9J

20 minutes ago, LeGrandSarrazin said:

All NATO cannons can use the same ammo case dimensions. That is by design. So, it being listed is not surprising in the slightest, since Nexter would like to sell as many rounds as possible to as many NATO members as possible. Although, no one has yet to procure them, even the French army.

I mean, you could even ask for DM73, or M829A2, since the Ariete can fire all of those rounds as well, being NATO compatible.

As i said, you haven’t read the rules set by Gaijin, it must be written on some form of documentation that a vehicle could use a specific armament, in this case on the Shard page it is written Ariete, so it is fair game.

 

as an example, the F-104S could fit the AIM-9J on its pylons, but there are no documentation stating that the F-104S could carry those, so you can’t suggest it.

20 minutes ago, LeGrandSarrazin said:

You're free to suggest anything you want man, but expect controversial topics to bring controversy.

More expect French to come by because “France still doesn’t have it” complaining...

 

I think you are the only group of people that does this type of thing... I still haven’t seen the Italian going in the Russian suggestion pages crying because a tank in the Russian tech tree got the new version of the Turms optics and fire control system before any Italian tank or because a German ship got the 76mm naval cannon before Italy.
 

 

 

but again, stop going off topic, if you want to complain about the rules set by Gaijin, go complain to the staff, if you want to discuss this with me there are the PM

Edited April 12, 2021 by arpitmkn

[Dr_Pavel 3,961]

I'm getting a lot of heat for this, but it's a -1 from me. We should strive for the better, not the worse. "Yeah but what about the F-4F" isn't enough of a reason for me to endorse the Ariete getting rounds it never fired and that the Italian army never used. 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Dr_Pavel

[arpitmkn 2,743]

1 minute ago, Dr_Pavel said:

I'm getting a lot of heat for this, but it's a -1 from me. We should strive for the better, not the worst. "Yeah but what about the F-4F" isn't enough of a reason for me to endorse the Ariete getting rounds it never fired and that the Italian army never used. 

Nahhh nobody is going to torment you just for that, it is cool that you have your opinion... as long as you don’t give a contrived reason like someone else does 

[Alan_Tovarishch 860]

There is no historical basis for the Ariete getting this round. Since it has an Ammunition Data Link, which *may* be necessary for some kind of programming, the Ariete doesn´t have nor is projected to have in the future the necessary modifications to its gun and fire control system to use this data link. In other words, even if the Ariete shares the caliber it may be incapable of shooting this round. So as this suggestion crosses into the fantasy realm, we should leave it to a different tank game less concerned with realism.

IF we were to skip over the fantasy issue, we don´t have nearly enough information on SHARD to give it to the Ariete. We have absolutely no clue as to the dimensions of its penetrator nor even its velocity when shot from an L44 gun, such as the one the Ariete uses.

Finally in terms of gameplay, why give a broken round to try to fix a broken vehicle? Ariete was already privileged when it got introduced into the game with the single most powerful round prior to DM53 and M829A1. If the Italians need a new, better MBT there are better alternatives than crossing into the fantasy realm such as the Ariete MLU/AMV or giving the Ariete the realistic ability to deploy loitering ammunition (which may end up being more broken than the SHARD but still a better solution).
 

 

[arpitmkn 2,743]

7 hours ago, Alan_Tovarishch said:

even if the Ariete shares the caliber it may be incapable of shooting this round.

The website of Nexter, the producer, say IT IS capable of deploying it, so I’m going to trust the producer of the round over a random guy on the internet

Edited April 13, 2021 by arpitmkn

[Jεcka 4,618]

Just want to point this out;

"The interoperability of SHARD with the armaments and environments of the Leclerc tank, the Leopard 2, the Abrams M1A1/A2 and the C1 Ariete is ensured through development in compliance with STANAG 4385 and ICD 120."

 

The argument for C1 receiving SHARD is there but has no logic following it at all. You guys used the logic of "DM53A1 was trialed by X Italian vehicle therefore Ariete should receive it" which was at least understandable granted Italy would later adopt the round, this however, jumped stright into the realm of fantasy. Every 120mm round in existence should be compatibile with Ariete and any other NATO MBT solely because of STANAG 4385 yet you don't see French players or German players or even US players asking for DM53/M829A1/DM43 etc etc.

 

How is M322 not enough for you guys, like, really, it's still the 2nd best round in the game only overshadowed by DM53 but it's still as powerful as ever.

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2021 by CelestialDwnfall

[S__bastienZ88 635]

Like it was already mentioned - the shard is intended to blance tier 7 and if somebody don't like this idea, there is the option to vote no and write a short argument why. But respect the idea/opinion of another person, otherwise it ends up being toxic.

 

There is no need to impose their own opinion or discredit another opinion, we are talking about a game and not about life or death. 

 

My opinion is; I would rather see the shard on the AMV then on the normal Ariet, but at the same time the PSO should be lowered in br, otherwise it needs a new shell to justify being a 10.7 tank.