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Sea Vixen FAW.1 XJ476 - The Martel carrying Sea Vixen


Sea Vixen FAW.1 XJ476  

87 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see Sea Vixen FAW.1 XJ476

    • Yes
      84
    • No
      3
  2. 2. How should it be added

    • Tech tree vehicle
      60
    • Event vehicle
      14
    • Premium vehicle
      6
    • Unsure / don't mind
      4
    • I answered "No" the on first question
      3


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Introduction

I would like to suggest the addition of Sea Vixen FAW.1 XJ476 to the British aircraft tree. Seeing as the cannon armed DH.110 prototype (XF828) and Sea Vixen FAW.2 suggestions have already passed to the developers, it may seem that these two leave little need for a FAW.1, however XJ476 has a unique history which would make it a very worthwhile addition.

 

What was the Sea Vixen?

@Aquilachrysaetos has written a very good history of the Sea Vixen in their suggestion. To summarise the Sea Vixen was a British all-weather, carrier-based, fleet air defence fighter operated by the Royal Navy's Fleet Air Arm. The aircraft has a highly distinctive took with a twin boom tail, offset pilot's cockpit, and radar operator sat within the fuselage below / to the side of the cockpit. The Sea Vixen FAW.1 entered service with the FAA in 1959, while the improved Sea Vixen FAW.2 entered service in 1964, remaining in service until 1972 when it was replaced by the phantom FG.1.

 

The Sea Vixen had no cannons (apart from one prototype), relying on Firestreak and Red Top air-to-air missiles.

 

What was XJ476?

Sea Vixen FAW.1 XJ476 was the third Sea Vixen FAW.1 off the production line and first flew in 1957. Unlike other Sea Vixens XJ476 was not destined to see service, instead she was sent to the Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment (A&AEE) at Boscombe Down where she spent her career carrying out trials work. During a landing in September 1973 both the main undercarriage tyres burst, damaging the aircraft; the decision was made not to repair the damage and XJ476 was used to train firefighters. The cockpit section was eventually removed, restored, and put on display at the Solent Sky museum in Southampton in 1984. In 2006 the cockpit was moved to the Boscombe Down Aviation Collection, where it remains today.

Spoiler

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What would XJ476 offer?

With the cannon armed XF828 DH.110 prototype and more capable Sea Vixen FAW.2 already passed to the developers the Sea Vixen FAW.1 may seem like an unlikely choice, but as previously stated XJ476 was a normal FAW.1. XJ476 spent her career as a trials aircraft with the A&AEE, meaning she carried weapons other FAW.1s did not. So what exactly would this addition offer?

 

Firstly as a nice little novelty being a FAW.1 XJ476 would get access to a pair of fold-out air-to-air rocket launchers in the nose (see image below). These were not present on XF828, and removed in the upgrade to FAW.2 standard.

Spoiler

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On a more useful note XJ476 was the trials aircraft for fitting Red Top air-to-air missiles on the Sea Vixen, she could therefore be given four Red Top missiles (as well as Firestreaks), brining her air to air armament up to that of the FAW.2.

 

Now for the main reason to add XJ476, she was the aircraft used during the development of the AJ 168 and AS.37 Martel air-to-ground missiles. Martel stands for "Missile, Anti-Radar and Television", as the name suggests it comes in both both Anti-radiation (AS.37) and TV (AJ 168) guided versions. The Martel is a very large missile at 3.89 m (AJ 168) or 4.14 m (AS.37) long, and weighing 574 kg (AJ 168) or 535 kg (AS.37). Figures for maximum range vary, but it generally listed as around 15 - 30 nautical miles (30 - 60 km).

Spoiler

AS.37 Martel

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AJ 168 Martel

Martel_TV-Guided_Missile_-_Elvington_-_B

 

The AJ 168 Martel is equipped with a Semi-Armour Piecing High Explosive warhead and an impact fuse for use against hard targets. When the AJ 168 Martel is fired it climbs to an altitude above the firing aircraft and a TV image is displayed to the operator from a camera in the nose of the missile. The missile flies on a form of auto-pilot (the operator is allowed limited course correction) while the operator uses the missile's camera to identify the target; at this point they switch the missile into terminal mode. This gives them control over the azimuth of the missile, once the missile gets close enough to the target it enters a dive and gives the operator full control over the missile to guide it on to the target.

 

The AS.37 Martel is equipped with a High-Explosive blast warhead and proximity fuse for use against enemy radars. The missile locks on to enemy radars (e.g. the radar of an anti-aircraft system); when it is fired the missile climbs to an altitude above the aircraft and automatically flies to the target. Once reaching the target it enters a steep dive and uses the proximity fuse to explode next to the target.

 

Here are some photos of XJ476 with Martel missiles you can see it carrying both AJ 168 (blunt nose) and AS.37 (pointy nose) missiles. How many missiles she would carry is up for debate, seeing as we can only see one side of the aircraft in the photos, but I would say one or two is fair.

Spoiler

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Why add XJ476?

With more advanced air-to-ground ordnance inevitably coming Britain has very few aircraft capable of carrying TV guided and Anti-Radiation missiles, this being one of them.

 

Where would it fit in the game?

Being a "one-off" aircraft XJ476 may be well suited as an event vehicle; the TV guided / Anti-Radiation missiles and fold out rocket launchers would a give it a unique and novelty feature worth grinding for, while the Red Top missiles would help offset the limitations of not having guns (especially if they are given their partial-all aspect capability against afterburning targets).

 

The Sea Vixen FAW.2 could be the tech tree version of the Sea Vixen, while the Buccaneer S.2B (please support my suggestion for it) could be added as a tech tree vehicle capable of carrying both types of Martel missile.

 

Flight Performance

These numbers from Wikipedia are for a FAW.2, numbers for a FAW.1 are hard to find, but a generally similar with the exception that the FAW.1 is lighter than the FAW.2:

Crew: 2
Length: 55 ft 7 in (16.94 m)
Wingspan: 51 ft 0 in (15.54 m)
Height: 10 ft 9 in (3.28 m)
Wing area: 648 sq ft (60.2 m2)
Airfoil: EC1040
Empty weight: 27,950 lb (12,678 kg)
Gross weight: 41,575 lb (18,858 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 46,750 lb (21,205 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × Rolls-Royce Avon 208 turbojet engines, 11,000 lbf (49 kN) thrust each

Maximum speed: 690 mph (1,110 km/h, 600 kn)
Maximum speed: Mach 0.91
Range: 790 mi (1,270 km, 690 nmi) on internals
Service ceiling: 48,000 ft (15,000 m)
Rate of climb: 9,000 ft/min (46 m/s)
Wing loading: 64.2 lb/sq ft (313 kg/m2)
Thrust/weight: 0.54

 

Armament

Here are my proposed armament for XJ476 based on the standard FAW.1 armament options and the it being a trials aircraft.

 

Guns: None
Retractable rocket launchers: 2 x 14 2" rockets
Unguided rocket pods: Up to 4 x Launcher No.3 24-shot 2" rocket pods
Bombs: 2x 1000 lb bombs, 4x 500 lb bombs
Air to air missiles: Up to 4 x Firestreak or 4 x Red Top IR guided air-to-air missiles
Air to ground missiles: 1 or 2 (most likely) AJ 168 or AS.37 Martel missiles

 

 

Some more images of XJ476

Spoiler

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Sources

British Secret Projects: Hypersonics, Ramjets and Missiles by Chris Gibson and Tony Buttler - Images and information
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Sea_Vixen - Information

http://boscombedownaviationcollection.co.uk/Index_files/Page2382.htm - Information

https://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/seavixen/history.php - Information

https://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/seavixen/survivor.php?id=544 - Images and information

http://thetartanterror.blogspot.com/2006/11/george-paird.html - Images

https://picclick.co.uk/Martel-Missile-Sea-Vixen-Original-Hawker-Siddeley-372488721270.html - Images

 

Edited by Flame2512
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Definitely a +1 from me. Seeing this as an event vehicle will be most likely, although I do hope it could find a place in the Tech Tree. Either way, I definitely want to see this in game, without a doubt. 

 

Another good source worth mentioning is "British Secret Projects 1: Jet Fighters since 1950" that dictates the development of the Sea Vixen, and gives quite a lot of information about the FAW.1, from what I remember. It was also the first place I saw the pop-out rocket launchers.

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43 minutes ago, AVROVULCANXH558 said:

Another good source worth mentioning is "British Secret Projects 1: Jet Fighters since 1950" that dictates the development of the Sea Vixen, and gives quite a lot of information about the FAW.1, from what I remember. It was also the first place I saw the pop-out rocket launchers.

 

I've just found myself a copy I'll have a proper read when time allows.

 

Now I didn't include this in the post because I think it would be a bad idea both in terms of balance and historical accuracy, and I also don't think it is XJ476, but well it turns out this is a thing...

 

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(Apparently it's Taildog, not SRAAM)

Edited by Flame2512
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1 hour ago, Flame2512 said:

 

I've just found myself a copy I'll have a proper read when time allows.

 

Now I didn't include this in the post because I think it would be a bad idea both in terms of balance and historical accuracy, and I also don't think it is XJ476, but well it turns out this is a thing...

 

NHfP7nN.png

(Apparently it's Taildog, not SRAAM)

Taildog and SRAAM are one and the same taildog was renamed SRAAM.

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23 minutes ago, TerikG2014 said:

Taildog and SRAAM are one and the same taildog was renamed SRAAM.

 

No, they are separate missiles. Taildog was a private venture by Hawker Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). When the MOD became interested in a dogfight missile HSD approached them with Taildog and they got a contact to develop it into SRAAM, which was a larger version of Taildog. The confusion comes because the programme changed names from Taildog to SRAAM, but the names Taildog and SRAAM refer to different missiles (as well as the programme as a whole at different points). Taildog refers to the original 2.0 m long version developed as a private venture, while SRAAM refers to the 2.75 m long version developed after the MOD got involved.

Edited by Flame2512
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5 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

 

No, they are separate missiles. Taildog was a private venture by Hawker Siddeley Dynamics (HSD). When the MOD became interested in a dogfight missile HSD approached them with Taildog and they got a contact to develop it into SRAAM, which was a larger version of Taildog. The confusion comes because the programme changed names from Taildog to SRAAM, but the names Taildog and SRAAM refer to different missiles (as well as the programme as a whole at different points). Taildog refers to the original 2.0 m long version developed as a private venture, while SRAAM refers to the 2.75 m long version developed after the MOD got involved.

Ah my bad sorry

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What are your guys opinion on Redtops? I find them mmm well once in range good at their job even if they aren't exactly on target they got enough boom to kill enemy's from the explosion itself, just wish its range wasn't so inhibited by drag. I'd say they are good current after playing a few lightning matches, don't got the knowledge to say if they are underperforming. But ill be the main weapon of the sea vixen so yk

Edited by Mr_Pokemon26295
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2 hours ago, Mr_Pokemon26295 said:

What are your guys opinion on Redtops? I find them mmm well once in range good at their job even if they aren't exactly on target they got enough boom to kill enemy's from the explosion itself, just wish its range wasn't so inhibited by drag. I'd say they are good current after playing a few lightning matches, don't got the knowledge to say if they are underperforming. But ill be the main weapon of the sea vixen so yk

 

First up, their range is indeed underperforming, to the tune of ~25% less than it should be.

 

I think of you fire them under the right conditions (approach the target from 90 degrees to their side target, lead the missile, fire at appropriate range / closing speed) they can be very good missiles.

 

I think if they get given their all aspect capability against afterburning / supersonic targets, and have their range fixed they will be very good missiles.

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2 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

 

First up, their range is indeed underperforming, to the tune of ~25% less than it should be.

 

I think of you fire them under the right conditions (approach the target from 90 degrees to their side target, lead the missile, fire at appropriate range / closing speed) they can be very good missiles.

 

I think if they get given their all aspect capability against afterburning / supersonic targets, and have their range fixed they will be very good missiles.

Yeah was gonna say most sources put their range at about 12km and yet they wobble that much and have to that much drag they rarely catch up to targets. Better yet they get within a few meter and then do the wobble dance around a non manoeuvring target. 
 

Limited all aspect shouldn’t be a problem now too, but I doubt Gaijin will sort it out. I do feel like they should have better manoeuvrability over the firestreaks then they do too, like only 1G difference seems a little BS. I don’t know where they got that number from either. 

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4 hours ago, Skinny105 said:

Yeah was gonna say most sources put their range at about 12km and yet they wobble that much and have to that much drag they rarely catch up to targets. Better yet they get within a few meter and then do the wobble dance around a non manoeuvring target. 
 

Limited all aspect shouldn’t be a problem now too, but I doubt Gaijin will sort it out. I do feel like they should have better manoeuvrability over the firestreaks then they do too, like only 1G difference seems a little BS. I don’t know where they got that number from either. 

Well the Lightning manual lists Red Top at 12G and Firestreak at 15G, so I guess we should count ourselves lucky.

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The one armed with Taildog could make for an event vehicle. As for the Red Tops, are they able to be "slaved" to the radar? They had that capability in real life.

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On 11/05/2021 at 15:20, AVROVULCANXH558 said:

The one armed with Taildog could make for an event vehicle. As for the Red Tops, are they able to be "slaved" to the radar? They had that capability in real life.

 

I'm not sure about that. Taildog is a bit of an unknown in terms of performance. Also you would probably end up with a Hunter F.6 / Harrier GR.1 situation where it is at a high BR only because of missiles.

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Maybe other variants of the Sea Vixen can go in the tree? Hopefully they do

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