Contre-torpilleur Léopard , premium or event ship

[sam_dom 87]

The  contre-torpilleur Léopard of the Free French Naval Force

History & Background .
-The Léopard was commisionned  in 1927 , it was one of the first Contre-torpilleur of the  Jaguar class  ,  introduced in 1922 .
Léopard was involved in the battle of Dunkirk  ,  she was one of the few ships who took refuge in GB after the Armistice .

-The vessel was comissionned the 31 August 40 by the Free France Naval Force .
Tasked to escort duty , the ship proved to be short ranged for the atlantic , excessive wear & hight fuel consumption was noted  . By May 1941 it was statued the vessel needed to be docked .
& converted to " Long rang escort " standard .



What is the Long rang escort  conversion  ?
It's a new standard of escort vessel built from an old destroyer ,  the Léopard loose one boiler & own more fuel storage .
Notifiable events
-Convoy OS33
The 11 july 1942 she spot & sunk the U 131 ( erratum : U 136 ) .
Damaged during the  OS 33 convoy  , the ship had to be repaired in South Africa ,  for diplomatic reasons she as to become  the HMS Léopard  .

-The  Liberation of La Réunion .
In November , during the battle of Madagascar ,  she is tasked  to convince the La Réunion to surrender ( to the Free France ) .
She shared many life ....

-Her loss
The ship is loss accidentally during the escort of a convoy , she beached on a shoal , the sea broke her keel  in half

Caractéristic
The ship achevied a 31,5 kn max speed after her conversion .
-4X130 mm mle 1919

Spoiler

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_51-40_m1919.php

-3X1 40 mm " Pomp Pom "

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_2-pounder_naval_gun

-3X 1 Oerlinkon

Spoiler

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.php

-2X2 Vicker .50

Spoiler

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNBR_5-62_mk3.php

Radar type 291
Camouflage :  Admiralty disruptive medium

Argument
They have many arguments , let me give you mine .
- The Léopard is unique
The ship show a British/French influence .
- Historical signifiance
Dunkirk , the Battle of the Atlantic , the Free French force .
- Deserve to be know to the public
Free French Naval Force casualties reach 25 % of her original enrolment .
- Train yourself
It's the perfect platform for familiarize whive the " contre-torpilleur " gameplay

My sources

Spoiler

-Les contre-torpilleur  de 2 400 t du type jaguar Jean Lassaque
-John Jordan et Jean Moulin, French Destroyers : Torpilleurs d'Escadre & Contre-Torpilleurs 1922–1956

-impérial war muséum ( photography )

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by sam_dom

[Thatz 637]

Open for Discussion  

Edited May 15, 2021 by Thatz

[ZackZooter 55]

I believe that it would be most suitably rank 2 at highest due to its similarity to German Leopard with some difference but still not good enough because it use older weapons compared to German... I'm guessing BR 3.7 at highest unless it have 15 RPM with TNT filler of 2.5kg for basic pen of 30mm or higher, then it can be placed at BR 4.0

[Magiaconatus 1,679]

I voted "No", because these guns have a horrendous reload of 10 seconds at best. The early French destroyers will be really bad until we reach the Aigle-class. That being said, one of the Aigle or Vauquelin-class destroyers would be very welcome as an event/BP ship.

[Milocat 4,856]

+1 from me, very cool ship!

[Abaddon75 460]

+1  a good ship for premium, event for France (Brits have enough of those no need to send them one), and as said by some people here, the early 130mm guns were not the best so there is a good chance to see it at a lower rank than rank 4 (also what ever the place Gaijin decide to put this ingame the ranks and Br are on his discretion and might change so no need to ask us about it )

Edited May 14, 2021 by Abaddon75

[DoxerWhite@psn 82]

Léopard sank U-136, but not U-131.

[sam_dom 87]

On 13/05/2021 at 22:56, Thatz said:

Can you please add another source for this post. @sam_dom
 

Done , correct me if something are wrong ( again )

 

On 14/05/2021 at 12:30, Abaddon75 said:

+1  a good ship for premium, event for France (Brits have enough of those no need to send them one), and as said by some people here, the early 130mm guns were not the best so there is a good chance to see it at a lower rank than rank 4 (also what ever the place Gaijin decide to put this ingame the ranks and Br are on his discretion and might change so no need to ask us about it )

Lower to tier IV , thank you
Théorical rate of fire : 8 rpm
Practical rate of fire : 4-5-6 rpm

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by sam_dom

[Magiaconatus 1,679]

51 minutes ago, sam_dom said:

Please don't focus to mutch on the " practical " rate of fire ! It's a game  .

But Gaijin doesn't base reload rates on theoretical performance. If they don't find themselves better trial results for the gun, it will get 6 RPM as that is the highest cited value.

[sam_dom 87]

42 minutes ago, Magiaconatus said:

But Gaijin doesn't base reload rates on theoretical performance. If they don't find themselves better trial results for the gun, it will get 6 RPM as that is the highest cited value.

Honestly : 6 rpm is correct for the Mle 1919 .
This is a problem of latéral stability of the hull , the gun couldn't be loaded if the ship roll .

The main flaw of the jaguar was the latéral stabily who was troublesome , spécifically during aggressive maneuver who hampered her combat hability .

In one word  : The ship turned poorly & was defenseless when that occured .


 

Edited May 15, 2021 by sam_dom

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

37 minutes ago, Magiaconatus said:

But Gaijin doesn't base reload rates on theoretical performance. If they don't find themselves better trial results for the gun, it will get 6 RPM as that is the highest cited value.

How do you think the Soviet cruisers are able to sustain their ridiculous reloads that they never could in real life, Gaijin uses the theoretical values when it's convenient for them. 

[Thatz 637]

1 hour ago, sam_dom said:

Done , correct me if something are wrong ( again )

 

Looks perfect to me 

[Magiaconatus 1,679]

5 minutes ago, WayOfTheWolk said:

How do you think the Soviet cruisers are able to sustain their ridiculous reloads that they never could in real life, Gaijin uses the theoretical values when it's convenient for them. 

it isn't theoretical, though. It is a gunnery trial reload rate.

[WayOfTheWolk 1,573]

Just now, Magiaconatus said:

it isn't theoretical, though. It is a gunnery trial reload rate.

And do you really believe the Soviets of all people didn't make up numbers to make themselves look good give me a break. 

[Magiaconatus 1,679]

43 minutes ago, sam_dom said:

Honestly : 6 rpm is correct for the Mle 1919 .
This is a problem of latéral stability of the hull , the gun couldn't be loaded if the ship roll .

The main flaw of the jaguar was the latéral stabily who was troublesome , spécifically during aggressive maneuver who hampered her combat hability .

In one word  : The ship turned poorly & was defenseless when that occured .


 

If you happened to know anybody who might have the book by Jean Lassaque -  Les CT de 2400 tonnes du type Jaguar, and could look into the armament category, we might get to know if there was any better gunnery trial RoF achived with these guns.

2 minutes ago, WayOfTheWolk said:

And do you really believe the Soviets of all people didn't make up numbers to make themselves look good give me a break. 

Whether it is true or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that this rule is universal, and can be abused by every other gun and nation if there is enough evidence supporting it.

[sam_dom 87]

42 minutes ago, Magiaconatus said:

If you happened to know anybody who might have the book by Jean Lassaque -  Les CT de 2400 tonnes du type Jaguar, and could look into the armament category, we might get to know if there was any better gunnery trial RoF achived with these guns.

I own a pretty good collection on the subject .

Spoiler

-All agree about five to six shells/minutes ( practical rpm )  .
-Higher rpm could be achevied  .
During trials , the Foudroyant achevied eight shells/minutes whive a Mle 1924 .
Take this as an example

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by sam_dom

[Magiaconatus 1,679]

5 minutes ago, sam_dom said:

But  ... i could say , a  8 shells/minutes was achevied by Forbin whive a mle 1924

Oh, that's most interesting! I haven't heard that before. I am also glad that I found somebody in their property of these books!

Well, sam, in due time when and if the French Navy is announced and we see previews of the stats on the dev server, I might kindly ask you for your help in taking a few shots of those said pages, and then I would send it to someone who communicates with the devs more directly.

That solves the reload issue with the 130 mm mle. 1924. Is there anything similar value for the very early 130mm mle. 1919 by any chance? I don't have any better reload values for only this gun and the 138.6 mm mle. 1923. If there were any mentions of better results mentioned, don't hold it back!

[sam_dom 87]

20 minutes ago, Magiaconatus said:

Oh, that's most interesting! I haven't heard that before. I am also glad that I found somebody in their property of these books!

Well, sam, in due time when and if the French Navy is announced and we see previews of the stats on the dev server, I might kindly ask you for your help in taking a few shots of those said pages, and then I would send it to someone who communicates with the devs more directly.

That solves the reload issue with the 130 mm mle. 1924. Is there anything similar value for the very early 130mm mle. 1919 by any chance? I don't have any better reload values for only this gun and the 138.6 mm mle. 1923. If there were any mentions of better results mentioned, don't hold it back!

Edited that was  le Foudroyant ( a sistership )
The mle 1919 was " converted " into that standart  ( mle 1924 ).
- A new shield
- An automatic loading tray
- A raised circular platform was added for the loaders.

The Mle 1924 had a slightly lower maximum elevation & an automatic loading tray that was retrofitted to the Model 1919 .

Edited May 16, 2021 by sam_dom

[Magiaconatus 1,679]

7 minutes ago, sam_dom said:

Edited that was Foudroyant ( a sistership )
The mle 1919 was converted into that standard .
 

Oh, that's awesome! Thanks for the picture above!

When the time comes, and you have the free time and willingness to help, I would love to get back to you for these sources.  

[Abaddon75 460]

12 hours ago, sam_dom said:

Honestly : 6 rpm is correct for the Mle 1919 .
This is a problem of latéral stability of the hull , the gun couldn't be loaded if the ship roll .

The main flaw of the jaguar was the latéral stabily who was troublesome , spécifically during aggressive maneuver who hampered her combat hability .

In one word  : The ship turned poorly & was defenseless when that occured .


 

I think it was common issue on french design Toprilleurs and Contre Torpilleurs of the time, during the conflict a lot of them loses one main gun somtime on torpedo launcher, most of the time replaced by AA artillery, to save weight in the upper part and lower the gravity point of the hull. It's mainly due to their height, that raise the center of gravity.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Abaddon75

[sam_dom 87]

 

On 16/05/2021 at 13:20, Abaddon75 said:

I think it was common issue on french design Toprilleurs and Contre Torpilleurs of the time, during the conflict a lot of them loses one main gun somtime on torpedo launcher, most of the time replaced by AA artillery, to save weight in the upper part and lower the gravity point of the hull. It's mainly due to their height, that raise the center of gravity.

 

Yes absolutely !
Design flaws of the Jaguar class was well identified .
- The two funnels , who had the tendency to catch the wind .
-The two search projector on the top the bridge
- Hight freebord
- Dated construction method .
-  A maximal Beam of 11  meters for a 127 meters long hull

Edited May 18, 2021 by sam_dom

[Arakneo 856]

the english got their leopard

[sam_dom 87]

4 hours ago, Arakneo said:

the english got their leopard

I didn' understand

[Arghail 1,220]

3 minutes ago, sam_dom said:

I didn' understand

 

There was a dev stream today and in the next patch a Leopard frigate's gonna be added to the British naval tree, but nothing to do with this one :

 

Spoiler

 

[sam_dom 87]

6 minutes ago, Arghail said:

 

There was a dev stream today and in the next patch a Leopard frigate's gonna be added to the British naval tree, but nothing to do with this one :

 

Hide contents

 

Hum ....
I still didn't understand the Joke .

From Wikipedia
 

Quote

Eleven vessels of the British Royal Navy have been named HMS Leopard after the leopard:

• The first HMS Leopard (1635) was a 34-gun ship launched in 1635 and captured by the Dutch in 1653.
• The second HMS Leopard (1659) was a 54-gun ship launched in 1659, hulked from 1686, and sunk as a breakwater in 1699. John Tyrrell was lieutenant on this ship in 1672.
• The third HMS Leopard (1672) was a 6-gun fireship purchased in 1672 and expended the following year at the Battle of Texel.
• The fourth HMS Leopard (1703) was a 54-gun fourth rate launched in 1703, rebuilt 1721, and broken up 1739.
• The fifth HMS Leopard (1741) was a 50-gun fourth rate in service from 1741 to 1761.
• The sixth HMS Leopard (1790) , famous for her role in the Chesapeake-Leopard Affair, was a 50-gun fourth rate launched in 1790, a troopship from 1812, and wrecked 1814.
• The seventh HMS Leopard (1794) was a 4-gun vessel formerly a Dutch hoy, purchased 1794 and sold 1808.
• The eighth HMS Leopard (1850) was a wooden-hulled paddle frigate, launched 1850 and sold 1867.
• The ninth HMS Leopard (1897) was a C-class destroyer in service from 1897 to 1919.
• The tenth Leopard , launched in 1927, was a French Chacal-class destroyer, seized in 1940, transferred to the Free French forces and wrecked off Benghazi on 27 May 1943.
• The eleventh HMS Leopard (F14) , launched in 1955, was the lead ship of her class of frigates. She was broken up in 1977.