Flugabwehrfahrzeug M16A1

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

 

After the founding of the new German army in late 1955, America started to supply the Bundeswehr with various equipment. Most of this transfer of machinery and weapons was followed through with in 1956, and one of these things were a total of 192 M16A1 SPAAG platforms, which served with the Bundeswehr from 1956, to 1962.

 

The Bundeswehr realised quite quickly, that especially compared to the wartime German half-track types, like the Sd.Kfz 251, the M16A1 was lackluster, since the driving-comfort and ergonomics of the vehicle were considered not favourable. Even though the M16A1 was faster and easier to maintain, it was reported, that the type was less capable cross-country and the lack of certain technical features, like a synchromesh and laterally differentiable traction, made the M16A1 look like a downgrade, compared to the half-tracks which Germany had used during the war.

The quadmounted 12,7mm HMG's were also considered not effective against modern jet-powered fighters. At best, the M16A1 could be used as either close-range anti-helicopter weapon, or as a heavy MG platform against infantry.

The M16 itself was considered obsolete by Germany since it's introduction, and was phased out of service in 1962.

 

The difference between the M16 and M16A1 is, that the M16A1 was using an M3A1 halftrack as base, which was a simplified version of the T1 halftrack, made by International Harvester, which was primarily meant for countries in the Military Assistance Program. The M3A1 chassis did not have collapsible walls like the T1, and therefore the M45D quadmount had to be heightened by around 35cm, which then got redesignated as M45F quadmount. Furthermore, a gun-shield was added for better protection against infantry.

 

Pictures:

Spoiler

 

Specifications:

Crew: 3

Height: 2,5m

Length: 6,41m

Width: 1,96m

Weight: 9,8 tons

Top-speed: 72km/h

Engine: White 160AX, 6 cylinder, 147hp

 

Armament:

4x M2HB 12,7mm Browning HMG (4800 rounds)

 

Thoughts:

I think it would be a good rank II premium, or a vehicle for an event or battlepass. Just my personal thoughts, since this vehicle wouldn't be needed from a gameplay standpoint, but it's still a cool part of early German post-war military history. The BR would obviously be 2.3, same as for the American M16 MGMC, since I don't think the gunshield would make too much of a difference in War Thunder.

 

If you spot a mistake or want to add something, please let me know.

 

Sources:

Die Reservisten AG zum Thema Flugabwehr (rag-flugabwehr.de)

M16 Flakpanzer | Auferstanden aus Ruinen

Baubericht - M16 A1 (Bundeswehr) (panzer-modell.de)

Die Flugabwehrtruppe des Heeres der Bundeswehr (fla2.de)

M16 (Halbkettenfahrzeug) – Wikipedia

Flakpanzer M 16 (hartziel.de)

Edited June 18, 2021 by Stuhlfleisch

[ItssLuBu 1,801]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[DMYEugen 688]

+1 Sure, why not? Would be a nice vehicle for a German holiday event.

[Milocat 4,854]

Nice find, +1 from me.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

-1 It's not interesting but also would not really serve any needed role in the German SPAA line as it would be placed far down in the 1.3 - 1.7 BR area and also it is copy pasted from the US Tech Tree

Edited June 18, 2021 by Cpt_Jack_Irons

[JTRRS 35]

wow more copy paste captured unninteresting things for the germans 

-1

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

3 hours ago, JTRRS said:

wow more copy paste captured unninteresting things for the germans 

-1

To be fair, it wasn't captured. It was supplied by the US post-war for the new Bundeswehr.

[JTRRS 35]

oh ok my bad

 is it realy needed?

germany has some of the best aas in the game 

ngl i dont think they are needed

[DMYEugen 688]

Just now, JTRRS said:

oh ok my bad

 is it realy needed?

germany has some of the best aas in the game 

ngl i dont think they are needed

I get where you're coming from, however, the chassis is already in game. Germany doesn't need it but it would still be a very simple addition for a occasion which doesn't quite warrant commissioning an entirely new model.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

10 minutes ago, DMYEugen said:

I get where you're coming from, however, the chassis is already in game. Germany doesn't need it but it would still be a very simple addition for a occasion which doesn't quite warrant commissioning an entirely new model.

just because its cheap to add to the game does not mean it must be added...

[JTRRS 35]

53 minutes ago, DMYEugen said:

I get where you're coming from, however, the chassis is already in game. Germany doesn't need it but it would still be a very simple addition for a occasion which doesn't quite warrant commissioning an entirely new model.

If people want to play it just grind it in the original tech tree , its not that hard

[Stuhlfleisch 3,762]

1 hour ago, JTRRS said:

oh ok my bad

 is it realy needed?

germany has some of the best aas in the game 

ngl i dont think they are needed

If it's needed or not doesn't matter to me, it was adopted and used, so it warrants a suggestion. If it will ever be implemented is a totally different story.

[JTRRS 35]

10 minutes ago, Stuhlfleisch said:

If it's needed or not doesn't matter to me, it was adopted and used, so it warrants a suggestion. If it will ever be implemented is a totally different story.

Fair enough

[DMYEugen 688]

6 hours ago, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

just because its cheap to add to the game does not mean it must be added...

I never said it must be added. Hell, I even said that Germany didn't need it. I'm aware that it's unnecessary and "copy-paste", however, I will not object to its addition because that's not what matters to me. 

[TheLeadHead 570]

Against.

 

Vehicles of another nation should be added in case they are unique variations/models to that nation (see Merkava, 105mm M47) or to fill an important gap in BRs or provide a competitive backup for a full lineup (PT-76s in Chinese tree, Italian Leopard, German M48s, etc.).

The M16A1 in Bundeswehr service does not fulfill either role.

 

On top of that, in my opinion, the SPAA line should have the least amount of vehicles in any nation as long as it provides a competitive vehicle at every rank. The German SPAA branch is already one of, if not the most, complete SPAA branches in the game. Adding another vehicle would inflate the grind, which would only negatively affect overall experience, as you want to spend as little time as possible researching support vehicles.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

On 19/06/2021 at 00:01, DMYEugen said:

I never said it must be added. Hell, I even said that Germany didn't need it. I'm aware that it's unnecessary and "copy-paste", however, I will not object to its addition because that's not what matters to me. 

Ah i see.

However i will object against its addition because as TheLeadHead explained above it is a copy paste with no real reason to exist due to the fact that there is no gap that needs to be filled

[eleks12 1,079]

If there is no domestic Br 2.3 that can be added to the German Research Tree im all for this vehicle being added. And it has at least a unique gun shield compared to the regular M-16 Half Track.

 

Otherwise I can only see this vehicle being for an event. Since the WT Community is still pretty negative towards Copy Pasta for the game... Especially after Chinese Ground Forces got added and Sherman Copy Pasta for nations like Italy.

Edited July 4, 2021 by eleks12

[RytisLTU1 2,585]

-1 I dont want more C&P, and not like Germany is lacking in Anti Air

[Solarmod 1,203]

Yes, but only under the caviat that the vehicle will be a VERY limited run premium/event vehicle, at most like, 10,000 of these, period. But add this to other trees that would actually need it.

[NAYEONnaise 1,936]

I voted no, because with all the stuff Germany has at low tier, is this really needed? If everyone turns down the idea of more captured/basically copy paste german vehicles for allied powers, then let's be fair here.

[PrussianOwl 442]

+1 from me. If Japan and Italy get American vehicles, why not Germany?

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

6 hours ago, PrussianOwl said:

+1 from me. If Japan and Italy get American vehicles, why not Germany?

Ah yes because we need more Copy Paste when Germany has a lot of Homemade SPAA's yet to be added...

[PrussianOwl 442]

14 hours ago, Cpt_Jack_Irons said:

Ah yes because we need more Copy Paste when Germany has a lot of Homemade SPAA's yet to be added...

I agree, but the existence of this doesn't preclude the addition of other SPAA vehicles. Or at least it shouldn't

Edited January 21, 2022 by PrussianOwl

[Conraire 5,723]

I voted yes, since they used them, but to me it'd have to be a rare event vehicle or some such. 

[AngryDoggo2222 30]

-1

Sorry, but we don't need more copy paste