So the one tier difference does not exist in Arcade Air Battle?

[JeevesAAA 56]

Title: I just enjoyed grinding 1.3 vs lvl 100 in 2.7. My stack was 1.0, 1.3, 1.3. How is it that I am meeting 2.7? In ground battles you never meet higher that one full br above you IIRC?

[Vonarian 2,888]

11 minutes ago, JeevesAAA said:

Title: I just enjoyed grinding 1.3 vs lvl 100 in 2.7. My stack was 1.0, 1.3, 1.3. How is it that I am meeting 2.7? In ground battles you never meet higher that one full br above you IIRC?

 

The BR you will see is written here:

 

(BR x.x) determines +1 or -1 you see in your vehicle, this is impossible to see 1.3 higher BR vehicle in a vehicle setup of which is said to be 1.3 by game.

[Ainbertach 1]

uncheck join random battle's and uncheck join squad's and try that . 

[JeevesAAA 56]

I will try to uncheck join squads. As for Vonarians reply I have the replay and screenshots. My stack was as I said and I an 2.7 enemy. If random squad matching can mess that up I have never experienced that in ground battles but I can try.

[qpranger 1,887]

1 hour ago, JeevesAAA said:

Title: I just enjoyed grinding 1.3 vs lvl 100 in 2.7.

 

There is this trick for Arcade Air setups, for example you can have a setup with one 2.7 plane, one 2.3 plane and other planes at 2.0 or lower and your setup's total BR will be 2.3, so in this case that one 2.7 plane in your setup can indeed meet 1.3 planes.

[Vonarian 2,888]

Just now, qpranger said:

 

There is this trick for Arcade Air setups, for example you can have a setup with one 2.7 plane, one 2.3 plane and other planes at 2.0 or lower and your setup's total BR will be 2.3, so in this case that one 2.7 plane in your setup can indeed meet 1.3 planes.

 

Yeah exactly.

The whole setup determines what BR you will see, not the maximum BR you bring or minimum.

 

Thanks for the perfect clarification!

[Onnivader@live 24]

16 hours ago, qpranger said:

 

There is this trick for Arcade Air setups, for example you can have a setup with one 2.7 plane, one 2.3 plane and other planes at 2.0 or lower and your setup's total BR will be 2.3, so in this case that one 2.7 plane in your setup can indeed meet 1.3 planes.

So, why it does not work for me, is it because I am console player? Also it does not work in my ground AB line.

[DerLachendeMann 506]

The problem with a BR 1.3 lineup is, you basically can(t get downtiered, you'll very probably be uptiered to the maximum extent. It will get better at 2.x until 2.7, from 3.0 on you'll have a great chance of joining 4.0 games, 4.0 being very popular.

 

Also deconsider the BR of individual planes, check the BR of the lineup, that's what will differ +/- 1.0 (in your case most probably + 1...)

 

Also an uptier with planes is not as brutal as with tanks.

6 minutes ago, Onnivader@live said:

So, why it does not work for me, is it because I am console player? Also it does not work in my ground AB line.

Put in another 5.0-4.0 plane, or get rid of your Bf 109 E3, that one is too low to make downtiering work. Check the wiki for more information, they even have a picture chart to explain iirc.

Edited July 19, 2021 by DerLachendeMann

[GhostSoph@psn 2,213]

8 minutes ago, Onnivader@live said:

Also it does not work in my ground AB line.

Your Ground BR is the one of your BEST vehicle. PERIOD. (Simple)

 

In the air the rule is explained here:

https://wiki.warthunder.com/Battle_ratings#Air_Arcade_Battles

(There used to be a picture...cant find it now)

It is based on the AVERAGE of your THREE higher BR planes.

[DerLachendeMann 506]

I read up again, in Onnivader's case to profit from downtier his third plane needs to be at least BR 3.3, else for the average calculation like in his case the 2.7 it gets substituted by 5.3, hence no downtier.

 

For a 5.3 plane to go into a 5.0 lineup it needs to be at least 5.3 - 3.3 - 3.3, at best 5.3 - 5.0 - 4.7. You can have more planes, none of which should be higher than 4.7, and can be as low as you want.

For a 5.3 plane to go into a 5.0 lineup it needs to be at least 5.3 - 4.0 - 3.3 or 5.3 - 3.7- 3.7, at best 5.3 - 5.0 - 4.7. You can have more planes, none of which should be higher than 4.7, and can be as low as you want. Or you just bring a single 5.3 plane, that will get you a 5.0 lineup.

 

 

From the wiki:

In other words, if the difference between A and B is less than 0.6, then B is substituted for X in the equation. If the difference is between 0.6 and 2.0, inclusive, then (A - 0.6) is substituted for X. If the difference is greater than 2.0, then A is substituted for X.

Edited July 19, 2021 by DerLachendeMann
I tried it out in practice....

[Onnivader@live 24]

Many thanks for explenation, now understand

[JeevesAAA 56]

I know about manipulating lineups, or "stacks" but for some reason it works much better it seems in Air Battles than Ground. When I grind tanks I don't feel perform well stock I sometimes try. You know: one 2.7 and two 1.0's for good measure. But I still find myself in 2.7 fights most of the time. But yesterday I saw a player with three 1.0 planes in a battle where the highest opponent was 3.3... I was 2.3 or 2.7 I can't recall. I DID notice him being in division with a 3.3 but I have no idea if they were pre-divisioned or just auto-divisioned upon start.

 

MM "should"? be the same for Ground as for Air? Maybe I just notice it better when I'm in air. One of the things that threw me off was the wiki article about how the combination of BR and Tier work together and how if you pass a treshold you will risk seeing higher opponents, but then the article states not more than one BR higher anyway. I guess my best option to avoid it is to turn off auto squad as suggested earlier.

[GhostSoph@psn 2,213]

8 hours ago, JeevesAAA said:

MM "should"? be the same for Ground as for Air? Maybe I just notice it better when I'm in air.

No. If you check the links above you will see IT IS DIFFERENT for ground and air.

In the ground THE BEST TANK defines the lineup...so your 2.7 plus 2x1.0s example will be matched as a 2.7, so it is pointless to use 1.0s. IN PLANES it makes an average, so IT MAY help somewhat (although the effort to bring it down to 2.0 and then have to use two 1.0 vehicles is a bit odd).

 

If you join a squad then THE BEST lineup in the squad defines the matchup...also pointless to use lower lineups.

 

 

[JeevesAAA 56]

16 hours ago, GhostSoph@psn said:

No. If you check the links above you will see IT IS DIFFERENT for ground and air.

In the ground THE BEST TANK defines the lineup...so your 2.7 plus 2x1.0s example will be matched as a 2.7, so it is pointless to use 1.0s. IN PLANES it makes an average, so IT MAY help somewhat (although the effort to bring it down to 2.0 and then have to use two 1.0 vehicles is a bit odd).

 

If you join a squad then THE BEST lineup in the squad defines the matchup...also pointless to use lower lineups.

 

 

Ok, I didn't know that. I thought it was the same, but I have noticed AB having more uptiers. What you said about best lineup: Was that tanks only?

 

I just finished an air battle. My lineup was 2.7, 2.7, 1.7. (MM Puts me at 2.7) I met a division of p1 4.0, 3.7, 3.3 p2 3.7, 2.0, 2.0 I really should never have met the first player but I guess his division mate "pulled him down" to 2.7 then?

[krise_madsen 441]

7 hours ago, JeevesAAA said:

Ok, I didn't know that. I thought it was the same, but I have noticed AB having more uptiers. What you said about best lineup: Was that tanks only?

 

I just finished an air battle. My lineup was 2.7, 2.7, 1.7. (MM Puts me at 2.7) I met a division of p1 4.0, 3.7, 3.3 p2 3.7, 2.0, 2.0 I really should never have met the first player but I guess his division mate "pulled him down" to 2.7 then?

 

No, a squad mate cannot "pull down" the BR. As @GhostSoph@psn noted, the best (ie. highest BR) in a squad determines the BR.

 

In your case both P1 and P2 have a Total Battle Rating of BR 3.7 and yours was BR 2.7. That's within the BR 1.0 difference.

[anyuser 5,136]

15 hours ago, JeevesAAA said:

Ok, I didn't know that. I thought it was the same, but I have noticed AB having more uptiers. What you said about best lineup: Was that tanks only?

 

I just finished an air battle. My lineup was 2.7, 2.7, 1.7. (MM Puts me at 2.7) I met a division of p1 4.0, 3.7, 3.3 p2 3.7, 2.0, 2.0 I really should never have met the first player but I guess his division mate "pulled him down" to 2.7 then?

Easy rule:
Highest BR plane (Plane 1)

Plane 2, 1 BR step below the highest

Plane 3 and all others 2 or more BR steps below Plane 1

 

= DECK BR is lowered by 1 BR step (read highest plane is send down 1 BR step).

Only for planes.

What your player 1 did was in that rule.

 

Only 25% of the players of a team can be at the Top BR (all AB and RB modes). This means 4 players in each team can be top BR.

If you see yourself always "uptiered", the moment you are not the topdog (something I would call stupid), in at last 3/4 of all games you can start to shout about the unfair MM...

It is much more unlikely to be the topdog. And with some BRs more loved (because of certain planes) then others, some BRs are more likely to be on the lower end.

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

remove the downtierr mechanic where  if you fly one plane or one higher tier plane and then two more one level below  ( e.g.  4.0  3.7 3.3 means your lineup is 3.7 ) each other you gee downtered . BRs are compressed enough . . Imagine you're a new player. You fly out 3 reserves before too long you get 1.3 plane . Add it so you now have 1.3 and three 1.0s . Click battle and you see some folks in gunpod a36es or IAR-81cs with 20mm MG151s  downtiering them to club seals . 

 

Removing this feature would solve more problems than it would cause change my mind. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by FailBoatCaptain

[HochgeborenKlown 1,276]

Learn your planes, then take a single plane into battle with mebbe a backup and you will have no BR problems...

[anyuser 5,136]

Those are most of the time the most juicy targets.

And often the best to take out first...

[VT_88 342]

Yes, the down tier mechanic needs to be removed and used as an exploit.

 

However BR match not only counts your BR BUT the WHOLE team.

 

Check it out. You can have the whole team at a certain BR but yet get uptiered 2.0 or more.

 

Why?

 

Because one jerk on the team put a high tier vehicle in the line up.

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

On 23/09/2021 at 15:30, VT_88 said:

Yes, the down tier mechanic needs to be removed and used as an exploit.

 

However BR match not only counts your BR BUT the WHOLE team.

 

Check it out. You can have the whole team at a certain BR but yet get uptiered 2.0 or more.

 

Why?

 

Because one jerk on the team put a high tier vehicle in the line up.

you mean squad not team . i have seen cases where low tier players squad up with higher tiers and then get uptiered. Are they enjoying the experience playing their P26es and I-15s against BR4 players when they squad with a 3.0?

On 24/07/2021 at 13:25, anyuser said:

Easy rule:
Highest BR plane (Plane 1)

Plane 2, 1 BR step below the highest

Plane 3 and all others 2 or more BR steps below Plane 1

 

= DECK BR is lowered by 1 BR step (read highest plane is send down 1 BR step).

Only for planes.

What your player 1 did was in that rule.

 

Only 25% of the players of a team can be at the Top BR (all AB and RB modes). This means 4 players in each team can be top BR.

If you see yourself always "uptiered", the moment you are not the topdog (something I would call stupid), in at last 3/4 of all games you can start to shout about the unfair MM...

It is much more unlikely to be the topdog. And with some BRs more loved (because of certain planes) then others, some BRs are more likely to be on the lower end.

that's wrong I've seen games where one side would have 2-3 top tier and the other 5-7 ( one 4 player squad and more non squadded players )  

 

Because the matchmaker in War Thunder is balanced. 

[anyuser 5,136]

4 hours ago, FailBoatCaptain said:

you mean squad not team . i have seen cases where low tier players squad up with higher tiers and then get uptiered. Are they enjoying the experience playing their P26es and I-15s against BR4 players when they squad with a 3.0?

that's wrong I've seen games where one side would have 2-3 top tier and the other 5-7 ( one 4 player squad and more non squadded players )  

 

Because the matchmaker in War Thunder is balanced. 

Squad players display a squad BR afaik.

That does not need to be the BR of the individual player though.

For squads there is only the rule, that squads meet other squads (4 vs 4 or 2 smaller ones).

Not that their are all treated with the squad BR. A jet match with one BR 11 squad, with 1 player in a BR 11 jet and 3 players in a reserve plane would cause some outrage for sure.

 

And when the BR difference of the match is only 2 stepps, 6 players can be top.

The 25% only applies for a BR spread of 1.0.

Don't see matches with 0.7 much, but it can happen.

Edited September 25, 2021 by anyuser

[FailBoatCaptain 439]

19 hours ago, anyuser said:

Squad players display a squad BR afaik.

That does not need to be the BR of the individual player though.

For squads there is only the rule, that squads meet other squads (4 vs 4 or 2 smaller ones).

Not that their are all treated with the squad BR. A jet match with one BR 11 squad, with 1 player in a BR 11 jet and 3 players in a reserve plane would cause some outrage for sure.

 

And when the BR difference of the match is only 2 stepps, 6 players can be top.

The 25% only applies for a BR spread of 1.0.

Don't see matches with 0.7 much, but it can happen.

The fail squads at mid BR are more common.  I play 3.0 - 4.0 a lot and see a lot of them  despite the 80-90%  + uptiers I get