french afv Panhard AML TTB 120

[CaID 8,996]

 

i would like to suggest a nice IFV for the french tree, the AML TTB 120

 

 

the AML TTB 120 was an export venture of the Panhard AML. it was built, tested and proposed for export since the late 70s. if it didn't saw any success in the export, it remain a very interesting vehicles for the game.

 

the main (if not only) difference with the other AML like the AML-90 currently in the game, is the turret. the TG 120, renamed in 1983 TTB 120 was a interresting turret. the two men turret was desided to provide support against lightly armored target and air target that may had passed the long range AA cover. as such it have excellent elevation angle making it very capable to aim for aircraft and also have powered transverse making it have a extremely fast transverse.

different version came for this turret. the most noticeable are the TTB 120 (standard) and TTB 120 RT (sophisticated) the major difference is the standard version is without high-tech device and the RT version is with a Rapace battlefield surveillance Radar. the idea is to make the both vehicles in one as up-gradable modification, giving the AML TTB 120 passing from a simple AFV to a radar AFV.

as in the game, the AML TTB 120 could provide support to the early MBT as a AFV with AA capacity. to be considered it more as a light tank (AFV of type armored car) than a SPAA. the TTB 120 RT turret is having a radar that is not meant track down the air target but ground target. the gun having access to APDS rounds also allow it a better anti-tank capacity than usual SPAA of his kind. the vehicles will be a very supportive AFV for the team giving it a Scouting ability and team repair capacity.

firepower

Spoiler

the main armament of the TTB 120 turret is the 20mm M693 dual feed auto-cannon. the dual feed allow you to immediately switch from a type of rounds to another without reloading delay (you could switch from AP to HE rounds instantly)  . with a elevation of -8°/+50°, the turret allow you to hunt down aircraft. the elevation is powered and offer a good 30° second in vertical aiming. the turret transverse is also powered and offer 45°/sec. the swiftness of the turret allow the vehicles to capable to fallow and fight aircraft. the high velocity of his 20mm rounds also allow it to be accurately and easily hitting moving target.

the 20mm also have a coaxial LMG who can be either a 7.5mm or a 7.62mm, the LMG is at the left of the 20mm and also give the same elevation making it a last resolve answer against enemy target (like aircraft)

 

on the down side, the 20mm only have 240 rounds inside the turret and it seem the chassis do not have any additional storage. this ammunition is quickly depleted.

as the vehicles is actually a AFV, it would be fair to give it the specialized anti-ground-target rounds such as the APHE and APDS. that will also allow the vehicles to get a higher BR and avoid a R3 T20 FA-HS situation. the AML TTB 120 is another vehicles from the late 70s and should be at least matching with the late WW2/early coldwar vehicles.

 

weapon & ammo

Spoiler

weapon of type auto-cannon. using the same ammunition as the HS820.

 

originally based on the HS 820, the M693 F2 was developed for the French Navy. it was a dual belt feed version of the gun who allow a much longer magazine. designed to be a AA gun, it show similar performance to the HS 820 and was used by the army for the IFV and Coaxial gun for the MBT. the dual feed allow a quick switch between different type of ammunition.

 

Weight: 71 kg

Magazine: belt

barrel caliber : L/100

rounds size: 20 x 139 mm

Rate of fire: 900 min

practical range: 1500m (against Arial target)

 

OPT (AP-T)

standard AP round made with steel and a tungsten core.

 

 

• projectile weight : 112 g

• Velocity : 1100 m/sec

 

penetration (in-game & estimated)

 

• 52 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°
• 37 mm at 500 meter, angle 0°
• 24 mm at 1 000 meter, angle 0°
• 15 mm at 1 500 meter, angle 0°

 

 

RIA (APHEI)

standard multi-purpose rounds used for the HS-820. this round was ideal for light armored vehicles, infantry and aircraft.

 

• projectile weight : 120 g

• Velocity : 1100 m/sec

• explosive : 4.5 g (type Hexal)

 

penetration (reported)

• 50 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°

 

Penetration (estimated)

• 43 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°
• 30 mm at 500 meter, angle 0°
• 19 mm at 1 000 meter, angle 0°

 

OPTSOC (APDS)

APDS round capable to provide more penetration on the HS820. this rounds could also be used on the RH202

 

• projectile weight : 109 g

• Velocity : 1300 m/sec

 

penetration (reported)

• 20 mm at 850 meter, angle 60°

 

Penetration (estimated with a supposition that the projectile is about 15mm)

• 79 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°
• 63 mm at 500 meter, angle 0°
• 48 mm at 1 000 meter, angle 0°
• 33 mm at 1 500 meter, angle 0°
• 18 mm at 2 000 meter, angle 0°

 

 UIA (HEI-T)

standard High explosive round with incendiary effect and tracer for the HS820. perfect against soft target.

 

• projectile weight : 120 g

• Velocity : 1050 m/sec

• explosive : 10 g (type Hexal)

 

 

Mobility

Spoiler

the mobility of the AML TTB 120 shall not be much different than the AML 90 one. the weight only 150 kg lighter will not give a much noticeable acceleration over the other AML that is currently in game (and other that could be added)

the Panhard modèle 4 HD 4-cylindres engine offering 90 hp, it allow the 4.7 tons vehicles to reach a good speed of 90 km/h.

 

protection

Spoiler

the hull protection remain very light, to a point the LMG can even penetrate it. it is as far we can tell, identical to the chassis of the AML-90 currently ingame

 

the turret however is much better. protected by a decent 20mm with an angle of 30° on the front, it would even do a decent job to spot HMG bullets. the side with a 12mm will not be so hard to penetrate but will still stop almost any LMG fire. the top and read protected by 8mm will be the most vulnerable part of the vehicles.

 

note that the TTB 120 S is open top while the TTB 120 RT is close with a Rapace DR-VT-3 radar on the top

 

different turret type

Spoiler

The TTB 120 is a standard version without high tech-device such as the radar.

 

the TTB 120 RT version have a Rapace DR-VT-3 pulse-doppler radar which could detect enemy vehicles up to 5 kilometers and infantry movements up to 2 kilometers. the radar scan the a zone at the angle of 120° (60° left and right) and allow the turret to automatically lock on a target.

 

having the TTB 120 RT version (as modification as i would  propose) would give the player the capacity to spot the enemy at up to 5 km away as long they are at line-of-sight. with the scouting ability, this would be a great asset for the team

 

 

 

Specifications
Mass	4.7 tonnes
Length	5.11 m (16 ft 9 in) [6]
length	3.79 m (12 ft 5 in) (hull) [6]
Width	1.97 m (6 ft 6 in) [6]
Height	2.07 m (6 ft 9 in) [5]
Crew	3 (commander, driver, gunner) [6]
Main armament	20mm M693 (240 rounds)
Secondary armament	7.62 mm MAS coaxial machine gun (600 rounds)
Engine	Panhard 1.99 l (121 in3) Model 4 HD flat 4-cylinder air-cooled petrol [7] 90 hp (67 kW) at 4,700 rpm [5]
Power/weight	18.75 hp/tonne (11.9 kW/tonne) [5]
Suspension	Wheeled 4x4
Ground clearance	0.33 m (1 ft 1 in) [5]
Fuel capacity	156 L (41 US gal)
Operational range	600 km (370 mi) [6]
Maximum speed	90 km/h

 

source

Janes Artillery and Armour 1979-80

Spoiler

(for chassis and gun separately)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panhard_AML

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/20mm-apfsds-t-help/40826/7

https://dokumen.tips/documents/ammunition-20-x-139-mm-general-mmpdfammunition-20-x-139-mm-general-the-ammunition.html

https://www.quarryhs.co.uk/an_introduction_to_collecting_20.htm

https://weaponsystems.net/system/1010-20mm+Giat+M693

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by CaID

[ItssLuBu 1,803]

Approved and open for discussion. 

[Milocat 4,857]

+1, this would be interesting as an SPAA-type vehicle.

[CaID 8,996]

On 05/08/2021 at 16:58, Milocat said:

+1, this would be interesting as an SPAA-type vehicle.

this vehicle was mainly designed to be an AFV. and the ammo load is pretty low. i shall try to find out where the AML 60-20 serval store the ammo as they have a 20mm themself and have more rounds for it (along with 60 rounds and 7.62mm) it could tell me if the chassis can carry much rounds, because the 240 rounds carried is only the one in the turret, it do not take into account the one in the chassis.

 

if we make it a SPAA, i suppose we should consider not giving it the APDS. it would only be fair for the balance. but if we make it an light tank, it could get the APDS without much trouble as the vehicles will not be consider as back-up and more as first line one. making it less a pain to get kill by it.

[Cpt_Jack_Irons 464]

+1 would be nice ingame

[nxdefiant001 1,397]

Hello,

here's the radar specs

Spoiler

 

[Bountyhead 83]

This is a great vehicle albeit as someone mentioned, it would be best to know how much ammo capacity it has as a low amount would greatly hinder the vehicle and france already has many better options that could potentially fill the role. 

[nxdefiant001 1,397]

11 hours ago, Bountyhead said:

This is a great vehicle albeit as someone mentioned, it would be best to know how much ammo capacity it has as a low amount would greatly hinder the vehicle and france already has many better options that could potentially fill the role. 

200 rounds  afaik

https://archive.org/details/janesarmourartil0006unse/page/815/mode/1up

[Bountyhead 83]

On 09/01/2022 at 11:20, nxdefiant001 said:

200 rounds  afaik

https://archive.org/details/janesarmourartil0006unse/page/815/mode/1up

It seems like it'll be a challenge to balance this given how powerful the shells are, the very low hp/t for a thin wheeled vehicle. It won't have the longevity in a match given how slow it is with its low ammo, so personally, I'd find myself unwilling to want to travel to a cap to reload the ammo. 

Do try the mobility of the ratel90, it'd be quite similar to that as it only has  4hp/t (RB) less while also being wheeled and thin. 

This machine also has radar so I'm on the fence.

 

Personally, I'd find a vehicle with a cannon that has a high rate of fire to be more effective against air as long as it has more ammo than one that has less while having a radar. The poor protection and mobility also seem like major negatives. I'd gladly trade protection over great mobility, but this has neither.

 

edit: as an aside, I greatly appreciate the effort you're putting into finding new vehicles to suggest on the forum for France. From what I've read, it's unfortunately one of the least popular nations in WT and understandably so given the rough first two ranks but France IRL has a ton of amazing wacky unique designs as they typically do for all their machines, it's just a major bummer that the better more combat effective ones don't make up the majority of the tree but you're certainly doing a fantastic job shedding light one them and I really appreciate you doing that. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Bountyhead

[Sternjaeger84 1,076]

+1!