french spaa Giat M16 20mm MGMC, an up-grade that just came 30 years too late.

[CaID 8,996]

 

i would like to suggest what could be the Ultimate M16, the Giat M16 MGMC

 

the development of this SPAA was made as late as 1989. by them there was still a few M16 in used around the world and some more M55 static/towed gun mount. the Giat M16. it was a private venture to propose a up-grade package for any M55 AA mount. the test was done in 1989 using the M16 MGMC with the proposed up-grade package and offered to any customer who would want to modernize their M55. but as far as 1996, no order was made. by them, nearly all M55 gun mount was retired from services.

 

 

firepower

this is where the GIAT M16 get interresting, the M16 was trading his 4x 12.7mm for 2x 20mm M621 Dual feed auto-cannon who have a total of 240 Rounds ready to use in the belt. at least 2 reload for each gun can be carried making the ammo load to 720 rounds carried or more. each gun have a fire-rate to 900 Rpm making together a total fire-rate of 1800 RPM . the rounds having a very high velocity can reach 1100 m/sec with the common AP and APHE rounds. the regular AP rounds are capable to penetrate 50mm at short distance allowing basic self-defense. the vertical fire arc is -10°/+90° making it impossible to find blind angle from above and allowing excellent ground targeting capacity. the rotation reaching a speed of 60° sec make it easy for it to fallow even the jets. the cockpit been lower than the turret do not cause any obstruction and the turret can target anything at 360°

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weapon of type auto-cannon. using the same ammunition as the HS820.

 

originally based on the HS 820, the M693 F2 was developed for the French Navy. it was a dual belt feed version of the gun who allow a much longer magazine. designed to be a AA gun, it show similar performance to the HS 820 and was used by the army for the IFV and Coaxial gun for the MBT. the dual feed allow a quick switch between different type of ammunition.

 

Weight: 71 kg

Magazine: belt

barrel caliber : L/100

rounds size: 20 x 139 mm

Rate of fire: 900 min

practical range: 1500m (against arial target)

 

Variant

• F2 - naval version
• M692 - army version

 

ammo

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OPT (AP-T)

standard AP round made with steel and a tungsten core.

 

 

• projectile weight : 112 g

• Velocity : 1100 m/sec

 

penetration (in-game & estimated)

 

• 52 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°
• 37 mm at 500 meter, angle 0°
• 24 mm at 1 000 meter, angle 0°
• 15 mm at 1 500 meter, angle 0°

 

 

RIA (APHEI)

standard multi-purpose rounds used for the HS-820. this round was ideal for light armored vehicles, infantry and aircraft.

 

• projectile weight : 120 g

• Velocity : 1100 m/sec

• explosive : 4.5 g (type Hexal)

 

penetration (reported)

• 50 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°

 

Penetration (estimated)

• 43 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°
• 30 mm at 500 meter, angle 0°
• 19 mm at 1 000 meter, angle 0°

 

OPTSOC (APDS)

APDS round capable to provide more penetration on the HS820. this rounds could also be used on the RH202

 

• projectile weight : 109 g

• Velocity : 1300 m/sec

 

penetration (reported)

• 20 mm at 850 meter, angle 60°

 

Penetration (estimated with a supposition that the projectile is about 15mm)

• 79 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°
• 63 mm at 500 meter, angle 0°
• 48 mm at 1 000 meter, angle 0°
• 33 mm at 1 500 meter, angle 0°
• 18 mm at 2 000 meter, angle 0°

 

OPTSOC "racourcie" (APDS "short")

APDS round capable to provide more penetration on the HS820. it was a shortened version OPTSOC.

 

• projectile weight : unknown

• Velocity : 1250 m/sec

 

APFSDS

APDS rounds used for the HS 820 and the RH202. it was developed in the 70s. the dart was reduced to around 9mm and was made of steel. this rounds could deal with medium armored target.

 

• projectile weight : assumed to be 109g

• Velocity : 1250 m/sec

 

Penetration (estimated with a supposition that the Dart is about 9mm)

• 135 mm at 100 meter, angle 0°
• 113 mm at 500 meter, angle 0°
• 92 mm at 1 000 meter, angle 0°
• 71 mm at 1 500 meter, angle 0°
• 49 mm at 2 000 meter, angle 0°

 

 

 UIA (HEI-T)

standard High explosive round with incendiary effect and tracer for the HS820. perfect against soft target.

 

• projectile weight : 120 g

• Velocity : 1050 m/sec

• explosive : 10 g (type Hexal)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mobility

been no different than any M16 from WW2, the Giat M16 still use the same White 160AX 128 hp engine . the weight been nearly unchanged allow the same mobility than the regular M16. with about 8.600 kg , this SPAA would be amounts of the lightest vehicles you can find in the game. the top speed reaching up to 72 km/h would be almost impossible to meet. a cruising speed of around 40-45 km/h is much more likely to happen. the acceleration been rather slow, the road is the best option. but been also a half-track vehicles, the off-road capacity would be fairly good.

 

Protection

been using the exact same hull as the M16 MGMC we have ingame, the Giat M16 would have the exact same protection. with 12.7mm on the front and 6.35mm on the side and rear , the armor would be rather thin and would only offer a minimal protection against LMG and shrapnel. the turret fairly well protecting the gunner from the front, is unprotected on the rear. the vehicles is open-top making it extremely vulnerable from above.

the crew of 3 men consist to a gunner in the turret. a driver in the left side of the cockpit and a commander in the right side of the cockpit.

 

Specifications
Mass	8.6 tons
Length	21 ft 4 in (6.5 m)
Width	7 ft 1 in (2.16 m)
Height	7 ft 8 in (2.34 m)
Crew	5
Main armament	2 × 20mm M621
Engine	White 160AX, 386 in3 (6,330 cc) 6-cylinder, gasoline, compression ratio 6.3:1, 128 hp (95 kW)
Power/weight	15.8 hp/tonne
Suspension	vertical volute springs; leaf springs for wheels
Fuel capacity	60 US gal (230 l)
Operational range	175 mi (282 km)
Maximum speed	72 km/h

 

 

source

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/20mm-apfsds-t-help/40826/7

https://dokumen.tips/documents/ammunition-20-x-139-mm-general-mmpdfammunition-20-x-139-mm-general-the-ammunition.html

https://www.quarryhs.co.uk/an_introduction_to_collecting_20.htm

https://weaponsystems.net/system/1010-20mm+Giat+M693

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_Multiple_Gun_Motor_Carriage

 

Jane's land-based air defence 1992-1993

Spoiler

 

 

Jane's land-based air defence 1996-1997

Spoiler

 

 

 

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Edited November 13, 2021 by CaID

[Miki_Hoshii 2,449]

Open for discussion.

[Milocat 4,857]

+1 from me but it should get a higher BR than other MGMC vehicles since those are modern 20mms that are buzzsaws of death compared to WWII ones.  

[CaID 8,996]

41 minutes ago, Milocat said:

+1 from me but it should get a higher BR than other MGMC vehicles since those are modern 20mms that are buzzsaws of death compared to WWII ones.  

it would have about the double firerate than the R3 T20 FA-HS. so i assume something near the coldwar would be good

[DukeLongTree 11]

this would be another zsd long reload with a short mag 

[Berserker0011 19]

This is sorely needed

[CaID 8,996]

On 04/09/2021 at 17:38, DukeLongTree said:

this would be another zsd long reload with a short mag 

more like the R3 T20 FA-HS with twice the ammo in the first magazine.

 

the gun are basically the same. but with access to APDS

[blockhaj 3,560]

Would be a great tier 5 SPAA for france. Like 7.7

[nxdefiant001 1,397]

1 hour ago, blockhaj said:

Would be a great tier 5 SPAA for france. Like 7.7

isn't that a bit high for a M16 ?

At least the H20/S530 equipped tanks (AMX 13,ERC,AML,M3,...) are resistant to LMGs

This isn't

Edited September 26, 2021 by nxdefiant001

[blockhaj 3,560]

40 minutes ago, nxdefiant001 said:

isn't that a bit high for a M16 ?

At least the H20/S530 equipped tanks (AMX 13,ERC,AML,M3,...) are resistant to LMGs

This isn't

Well SPAAs are not meant to eat damage and even then, the M16 is pretty spacious and survivable. Besides, the guns, even with just APDS, are 7.7+ material. This thing has twice the power of the marder and that thing is a menace against aircraft at 7.3.

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

2 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

Besides, the guns, even with just APDS, is 7.7+ material. This thing has twice the power of the marder and that thing is a menace against aircraft at 7.3.

And the Marder doesnt even get APDS

[blockhaj 3,560]

9 minutes ago, L963 said:

And the Marder doesnt even get APDS

So what if this thing gets APFSDS.

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

I hate you saying that, because I know that the French DID develop a 20mm APFSDS

[blockhaj 3,560]

7 minutes ago, L963 said:

I hate you saying that, because I know that the French DID develop a 20mm APFSDS

Its in the OP so what are u referring to?

[BagelIsMyWaifu 838]

Apparently I'm blind

[nxdefiant001 1,397]

44 minutes ago, blockhaj said:

Well SPAAs are not meant to eat damage and even then, the M16 is pretty spacious and survivable. Besides, the guns, even with just APDS, are 7.7+ material. This thing has twice the power of the marder and that thing is a menace against aircraft at 7.3.

i guess it's just me trying to dodge copy paste for a vehicle with more France in it (idk an AML/AMX13/ERC with a twin 20mm S530 turret or a M3/VCS/ERC/VAB/AMX 13 with a twin 20mm H20 turret)

[Cedjoe 5,482]

To me the guns look more like M621 than M693, making them much less effective against ground target, but very decent against air threats. The M621 is the gun found on the Gazelle in game and doesn’t have APDS AFAIK.

[blockhaj 3,560]

1 hour ago, nxdefiant001 said:

i guess it's just me trying to dodge copy paste for a vehicle with more France in it (idk an AML/AMX13/ERC with a twin 20mm S530 turret or a M3/VCS/ERC/VAB/AMX 13 with a twin 20mm H20 turret)

Well there are tons of SPAAs for france that can be added instead of this. AMX-13 DCA 30 prototype for example.

[Valcour 1,141]

No.  This is just not a good option.

 

[eleks12 1,079]

+1 I think this is a great spaa for France.

[Cedjoe 5,482]

@CaID The guns are confirmed here to be M621 or CN 20 F1, which makes sense since those were mainly anti air guns, while the M693 was more of an IFV gun with secondary AA capability.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Cedjoe