Sukhoi Su-25: The Soviet A-10 (20 threads special!)

[Sweepdown 147]

Hello and welcome to the 20th suggestion thread made by me. Strangely, despite this plane being a popular vehicle in the WT community, nobody has made a thread on this vehicle; as it's not on the "List of Previously Suggested Ideas" for Soviet planes. Nevertheless, here it is- the Sukhoi Su-25.

 

BRIEF DESCRIPTION

The Soviet counterpart to the A-10, known to NATO as the Frogfoot. Heavily armed and armored, the Su-25 achieved fame in Afghanistan and continues to be modernized and used today, inside and outside the former USSR. Being the Soviet A-10, it is a famous plane in almost anything involving Russians/Soviets during the Cold War or after it.

 

HISTORY AND DESIGN

In the 1960s, Soviet CAS was kind of inadequate, having been crippled by the nuke-and-missile-obsessed Nikita Kruschev a decade earlier (since apparently he helped influence the Soviet Air Force to switch into using tactical nuclear weapons rather than supporting ground troops) . Their current fighter-bombers such as the MiG-21, MiG-23, Su-7 and Su-17 lacked armor to protect them against ground fire/ missile hits, and they're too fast to maintain visual on a target. Pavel Sukhoi and a specialist team in the Sukhoi design bureau, supported by leading institutions of the Soviet Ministry of the Aviation Industry and Ministry of Defense, started preliminary design work with these problems in mind.

In 1968, the Soviets held a competition for designing close-air-support aircraft. The design bureaus that responded were the Sukhoi, Yakovlev, Ilyushin and Mikoyan design bureaus. Sukhoi's entry- the T-8- was finalized later that year, and two prototypes were produced in January 1972. The first airframe, the T-8-1 was assembled and finished on May 1974, with first flight happening at February 1975 under the control of Vladimir S. Ilyushin (yes, the son of the man who created the Ilyushin design bureau, he worked for Sukhoi ironically enough). For extra irony points, the T-8 won over the IL-102, Ilyushin's entry into the competition (best described as an angry IL-40 beefed up with modern tech and weaponry, also described as one of the ugliest airplanes to fly- this thing has its own thread here). 

During trials, Sukhoi proposed that Su-25s should be mass produced at Factory No.31 in Tbilisi (modern day Georgian capital, back then Georgian SSR), which at the time was making MiG-21UB trainer. After it completed and won all those trials, the Soviet Ministry of Aviation Industry approved this and mass production began in 1978.

The Su-25 has had a rich combat history, first seeing use in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and seeing in action ever since, both inside and outside the former Soviet Union. Su-25s have been procured by nations such as Peru, Iraq, Iran (who also got captured Su-25s from when Desert Storm happened and they fled to avoid destruction- Iran used them to this day, being able to source spares from Russian and has even given some back to Iraq post-2003 to help their close-air-support capabilites), North Korea, and Sudan, among others.

 

The Su-25 is not much more of a looker than the IL-102, which is saying something considering how ugly the other plane is. It has cantilever trapezoidal wings of moderate sweep, with airbrakes at the fairings at the wingtips, leading edge slats, two-section flaps and ailerons. Early variants are powered by Tumansky R-95 engines- developments of Tumansky R-13 engines used on the MiG-21 produced specifically for this aircraft- but the later variants from the Su-25T use R-195 engines- the same engines, but producing 12% more thrust. 

Pilots sit on a Zvezda K-36 ejection seat (the same ones on the Su-27), inside an armored cockpit that includes a bathub-shaped welded titanium armored enclosure and a 6mm thick steel headrest. The Su-25 has a canopy that hinges open to the right, entered via a flip-down ladder. There is also a folding ladder on the left fuselage for backup. The Frogfoot is a bit cramped (a tradeoff for improved pilot protection), and has poor rearward visibility (it has a periscope to compensate for this flaw).

Avionics on the Su-25 include a nose-mounted laser rangefinder, Doppler radar for night or bad weather usage, radios, an IFF transponder, flare and chaff dispensers for countermeasures, and a radar warning receiver. Sadly, no TV guidance system was present until the later variants.

 

The Su-25 has 11 hardpoints with a total carry capacity of 4400kg (9700lb). It can carry a bewildering array of bombs (good-old dumb ones, napalm, cluster, or guided), rockets, missiles and other things like flare/chaff dispensers. Its integral armament is 1 30mm GSh-30-2 twin-barreled autocannon with 250 rounds, though it can also carry SPPU-22 gunpods that can traverse their barrels for strafing purposes.

There are several noteworthy variants of the Su-25:

• Su-25UB: Two-seat training variant. Doesn't differ that much in performance from the single-seat version.
• Su-25UTG: Su-25UB with arrestor wires, intended to provide carrier landing training. Unarmed.
• Su-25T: Dedicated anti-tank variant, based on the Su-25UB but with the rear cockpit replaced by advanced avionics (think Mihaly's Su-30SM in AC7 and you're pretty close). This variant can employ TV-guided bombs and laser-guided missiles because of the advanced avionics, but its signature weapon systems were 9K121 Vikhr (Whirlwind, NATO name AT-16 Scallion) laser-guide missiles (yes, really, the ones on the Ka-50/ Ka-52). Sadly, it was cancelled in 2000 after being combat-tested in Chechnya, because there is a more comprehensive upgrade programme: the Su-25SM, mentioned below.
• Su-25TM: Modernized Su-25T with an even further upgraded avionics, allowing it to carry anti-air missiles such as the R-77 or anti-ship missiles such as the Kh-31 and Kh-35. This one was also undone by the Su-25SM below, though a few planes were upgraded. This variant is also known as the Su-39.
• Su-25SM: The Su-25 modernization primo supremo, with upgraded avionics including new HUD, radar warning receiver, and other things. The engines are overhauled with an anti-surge system added, and it can carry new weapons such as the R-73 (sadly, no major off-boresight unlike the Yak-141 and MiG-29) IR air-to-air missile, and missile launch profiles for the Kh-25L and Kh-29L were improved to allow things like launching two separate missiles to two separate targets in one pass. In addition, the autocannon has been modified to have adjustable rate of fire, with choices from 188, 375 and 750rpm.
• Su-25SM3: An even further upgraded Su-25SM first received by the air force in 2018. The outdated Klen-PS nose sensor is replaced with the SOLT-25 electro-optics module containing a 16x zoom-optic, laser rangefinder, target designator, thermal imager, TV channels, and target tracking up to 8km away. The upgrade also includes chaff dispensers, wing-mounted radar jamming pods, missile approach warning sensors, and the SVP-24 navigation/bombing aids that allow standoff bombing capability.

 

IN WAR THUNDER:

This is a plane that is the quintessential CAS plane for the USSR tree, which would be a logical extension after the Su-17/20/22 and Su-24 there. The tree logically finishes in the Su-34, so this plane is placed before the Su-34 but after the Su-24. The BRs I chose for this plane would be 10.3 for the baseline Su-25 and Su-25UB 11.0 for the Su-25T, 11.3 for the Su-25TM, and maybe all the way up to 11.7-12.0 for the Su-25SM.

 

SPECIFICATIONS

(For Su-25/Su-25K late-production variant)

General characteristics

• Crew: 1
• Length: 15.53 m (50 ft 11 in) (including nose probe)
• Wingspan: 14.36 m (47 ft 1 in)
• Height: 4.8 m (15 ft 9 in)
• Wing area: 33.7 m² (363 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 9,800 kg (21,605 lb)
• Gross weight: 14,440 kg (31,835 lb)
• Max takeoff weight: 19,300 kg (42,549 lb)

• Powerplant: 2 × Soyuz/Tumansky R-195 turbojet engine, 44.18 kN (9,930 lbf) thrust each

 

Performance

• Maximum speed: 975 km/h (606 mph, 526 kn)
• Maximum speed: Mach 0.79
• Range: 1,000 km (620 mi, 540 nmi)
• Combat range: 750 km (470 mi, 400 nmi) at sea level with 4,400 kg (9,700 lb) of ordnance and two external fuel tanks
• Service ceiling: 7,000 m (23,000 ft)
• g limits: +6.5
• Rate of climb: 58 m/s (11,400 ft/min)

 

Armament

Guns:

• 1 × 30 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-30-2 autocannon with 250 rounds
  • SPPU-22 gun pods for 2 × 23 mm Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 autocannons with 260 rounds

 

Hardpoints: 11 hardpoints with a capacity of up to 4,400 kg (9,700 lb) of stores,with provisions to carry combinations of:

• Rockets:

  • UB-16 rocket pods for S-5 rockets

  • UB-32A rocket pods for S-5 rockets
  • B-8M1 rocket pods for S-8 rockets
  • S-13
  • S-24
  • S-25
• Missiles:
  • Air-to-air missiles:
    • R-60
    • R-73
  • Air-to-surface missiles
    • Kh-23
    • Kh-25ML/ Kh-25MP (for T and later variants)
    • Kh-29L/ Kh-29T (for T and later variants)
    • Kh-31P (for T and later variants)
    • 9K121 Vikhr (Su-25T and Su-25TM only)
  • Anti-radiation missiles
    • Kh-58
• Bombs:
  • BETAB-500 concrete-piercing bomb
  • FAB-250 GP bomb
  • FAB-500 GP bomb
  • FAN-500 bomb
  • KAB-500KR TV-guided bomb (Su-25T or later variants only)
  • ZAB-500 incendiary bomb
• Others:
  • ASO-2V decoy dispensers (chaff and flare): Su-25s in Syria have been pictured with four rows of ASO-2V decoy dispensers (chaff and flare) along the tailcone's upper surface aft of the vertical stabiliser.

 

Avionics

• Phazotron Kopyo radar

 

 

 

An Su-25. I don't know which variant this is, however.

9K121 Vikhr missiles on the Su-25T variant. Right next to it are rocket pods, probably for the S-8 since I don't recall S-5 pods looking like that. There's also like 20 rockets, whereas the S-5 has 32 per pod.

Su-25UTG variant onboard the Admiral Kuznetsov.

Su-25TM loadout- thanks to @WreckingAres283 for this one.

 

SOURCES

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-25

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=195

https://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/su25/

http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/sukhoi_su25_frogfoot.htm

 

CLOSING NOTES

It's rare I do this, but maybe for my next ten threads, I'll focus on more modern planes, i.e those actually still in service. Might as well do that since we have quite a few that have not been covered yet.

Edited August 26, 2022 by Sweepdown

[Miki_Hoshii 2,449]

Open for discussion.

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

+1  Su-25TM will be very interesting 

Edited September 14, 2021 by WreckingAres283

[Milocat 4,857]

+1 for sure, we seriously need multiple variants of these.

[Volxar 551]

+1

[LeMemeAesthetic 266]

Just some minor corrections: The Su-25A cannot use Kab-500Kr's, as it has no TV display in the cockpit. You mention this earlier in the suggestion, though later you list is under the 'armament' section without a qualifier like you put after the Vikhr's.

 

 

Also, don't forget about the Su-25SM3, a deeper modernization compared to the Su-25SM. I'll link a decent write up about it, though you'll need google translate to read it.

 

http://airwar.ru/enc/attack/su25sm3.html

 

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by LeMemeAesthetic

[Sweepdown 147]

On 06/09/2021 at 04:25, LeMemeAesthetic said:

Just some minor corrections: The Su-25A cannot use Kab-500Kr's, as it has no TV display in the cockpit. You mention this earlier in the suggestion, though later you list is under the 'armament' section without a qualifier like you put after the Vikhr's.

 

 

Also, don't forget about the Su-25SM3, a deeper modernization compared to the Su-25SM. I'll link a decent write up about it, though you'll need google translate to read it.

 

http://airwar.ru/enc/attack/su25sm3.html

 

 

Fixed those, thanks a lot.

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

i can smell an early variant coming soon

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

@Sweepdown wasnt searching for this but, maybe it helps

Spoiler

 

btw, plz remove the "E" from R-73, the R-73E is only for export, the russian version is the R-73 RMD-1

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by WreckingAres283
typo

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

do we have any pics of a Su-25 with K-13 aam ?

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

20 hours ago, MonkeyBussiness said:

do we have any pics of a Su-25 with K-13 aam ?

nope and afaik, any Su-25 only used (or still use) R-60M and R-73 (+ subversions) for self defense -  something like "R-13A" doesnt exist aswell   PS.K-13 is the R-3, not R-13

Edited November 2, 2021 by WreckingAres283

[MonkeyBussiness 1,228]

40 minutes ago, WreckingAres283 said:

nope and afaik, any Su-25 only used (or still use) R-60M and R-73 (+ subversions) for self defense -  something like "R-13A" doesnt exist aswell

thanks for clarification

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

Just now, MonkeyBussiness said:

thanks for clarification

btw, Su-25 could also use the APU-60-2, so a 4x R-60/M loadout with its tons of CAS options is (should) technically be possible

also seen here on an early Su-25 version:

Spoiler

 

[Stalker2077 22]

there was also a version that mounted the GSH-6-30 cannon was mounted in a training su-25 and a su-25TM, these versions if they would be basically a Russian a-10, I understand that this is talked about in the book: Soviet Cannon: A Comprehensive Study of Soviet Arms and Ammunition in Calibres 12.7mm to 57mm but I do not have the book so I can not confirm it

[RanchSauce39 397]

 

 

someone else had suggested baseline Su25 before ( passed to consideration)

 

this is armament loadout of the vanilla Su25 from said thread

 

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

On 04/12/2021 at 00:05, RanchSauce39 said:

someone else had suggested baseline Su25 before ( passed to consideration)

 

this is armament loadout of the vanilla Su25 from said thread

weird, that suggestion isnt listed

Edited December 8, 2021 by WreckingAres283

[Sweepdown 147]

21 hours ago, WreckingAres283 said:

weird, that suggestion isnt listed

Old thread got pruned, probably

[Dr_Caribbean_J57 177]

In today's WT, what would be the proper Br for this bird, and which variant would be the best? (Honestly, SM/SM3 for me at 10.3, weaponry wise, o 11.3 with the R-73 e.e)

@WreckingAres283 @MonkeyBussiness

@Ein79

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by CaribbeanViper57
Add

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

18 hours ago, CaribbeanViper57 said:

In today's WT, what would be the proper Br for this bird, and which variant would be the best? (Honestly, SM/SM3 for me at 10.3, weaponry wise, o 11.3 with the R-73 e.e)

@WreckingAres283 @MonkeyBussiness

@Ein79

 

 

Hard to tell, flight performance is .. garbage, early ones don’t have access to TV guided armament, late ones have these but also got the Koypo-M Radar and Jammers (as well as FOX-3s R-77 and R-73s)

Honestly; early ones are DOA if you ask me, best they could make (in my eyes) would be Su-25TM (Su-39), it has everything to be competitive and has options for the future (R-27R, R-77, Jammers), except the modern cockpit of the SM and SM3…Idk about the BR, as already mentioned, the flight performance is crap and probably the worst we will ever see at this tier, its armament is top tier but yea …. I guess give it its 2x R-73 RMD-1, put it to 11.0 - 11.3 (depends on future / how the BRs look like when its going to be added) and add more RB EC maps - Radar jamming should slowly become a thing soon, at least for cases like the Su-25 (unmanouverble, slow and heavy targets at high BR that face PD and SARH meta)

If Gaijin decides to add an early version, give it 2x APU-60-2 rails with 2x R-60M each and put it at ~10.3 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by WreckingAres283

[Kingtiez@live 606]

2 hours ago, WreckingAres283 said:

 

Hard to tell, flight performance is .. garbage, early ones don’t have access to TV guided armament, late ones have these but also got the Koypo-M Radar and Jammers (as well as FOX-3s R-77 and R-73s)

Honestly; early ones are DOA if you ask me, best they could make (in my eyes) would be Su-25TM (Su-39), it has everything to be competitive and has options for the future (R-27R, R-77, Jammers), except the modern cockpit of the SM and SM3…Idk about the BR, as already mentioned, the flight performance is crap and probably the worst we will ever see at this tier, its armament is top tier but yea …. I guess give it its 2x R-73 RMD-1, put it to 11.0 - 11.3 (depends on future / how the BRs look like when its going to be added) and add more RB EC maps - Radar jamming should slowly become a thing soon, at least for cases like the Su-25 (unmanouverble, slow and heavy targets at high BR that face PD and SARH meta)

If Gaijin decides to add an early version, give it 2x APU-60-2 rails with 2x R-60M each and put it at ~10.3 

 

I can see the first iteration of the Su-25 being the Su-25T, TM will come directly after.

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

19 hours ago, Kingtiez@live said:

I can see the first iteration of the Su-25 being the Su-25T, TM will come directly after.

This would be a MiG-27M and K situation again - one being a grind filler at the same BR

 

I mean, the only really relevant variants for us are: Su-25 (basic / early version), Su-25T, TM (Su-39), SM and SM3, all other are trainers or have another purpose

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by WreckingAres283

[Dr_Caribbean_J57 177]

On 26/01/2022 at 21:03, WreckingAres283 said:

 

Hard to tell, flight performance is .. garbage, early ones don’t have access to TV guided armament, late ones have these but also got the Koypo-M Radar and Jammers (as well as FOX-3s R-77 and R-73s)

Honestly; early ones are DOA if you ask me, best they could make (in my eyes) would be Su-25TM (Su-39), it has everything to be competitive and has options for the future (R-27R, R-77, Jammers), except the modern cockpit of the SM and SM3…Idk about the BR, as already mentioned, the flight performance is crap and probably the worst we will ever see at this tier, its armament is top tier but yea …. I guess give it its 2x R-73 RMD-1, put it to 11.0 - 11.3 (depends on future / how the BRs look like when its going to be added) and add more RB EC maps - Radar jamming should slowly become a thing soon, at least for cases like the Su-25 (unmanouverble, slow and heavy targets at high BR that face PD and SARH meta)

If Gaijin decides to add an early version, give it 2x APU-60-2 rails with 2x R-60M each and put it at ~10.3 

 

Su-25TM with four R-60Ms and Vikhrs at 10.3 sounds kind of edgy knowing that it won't have CM, but could work.

 

 

But I'm more interested on see the SM/SM3 variant that have all of this plus R-73 at 11.3... why? Because I think that this and the A-10 are the best platforms for Gaijin to test out full capable all-speck ir missiles (R-73 and Aim-9L) in jets that have mediocre performance but at toptier Br.

[WreckingAres283 4,262]

9 hours ago, CaribbeanViper57 said:

Su-25TM with four R-60Ms and Vikhrs at 10.3 sounds kind of edgy knowing that it won't have CM, but could work.

1. AFAIK all Su-25s had countermeasures, the TM definitely had them

2. I meant an early Su-25 (Frogfoot-A) with 4x R-60M, not the TM 

 

Edited January 28, 2022 by WreckingAres283

[Dr_Caribbean_J57 177]

2 hours ago, WreckingAres283 said:

1. afaik all Su-25s had countermeasures, the TM definitely had them

2. I meant an early Su-25 (Frogfoot-A) with 4x R-60M, not the TM 

If that is the case, then could work 

[csla1972 849]

R-73E is export variant of R-73 RMD-1. RVV-MD is export variant of R-73 RMD-2.

Edited August 28, 2022 by csla1972