[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

[Pr0letari0s 73]

QUIT/Return to Hangar thats my solution all theese days.. (Untill unisntalling this totally unfair game..)

...And back to Battlefield 4 is not so bad solution anyway..

Edited July 15, 2016 by EL_ALeko

[Pr0letari0s 73]

..Where on this...universe..is fair playing to battle with Tanks with +1 BR...?

..Where on this...universe..is fair playing to battle with Kamikaze to destroy your expensive Tank with no cost at all for them..?

..Where on this...universe..is fair playing to battle with.. Bombers every 15'' in Arcade Ground Battles with no cost at all for them..?

Tanks cost to tankers money-real money,hours and hours of our lifes to improve the Tank and crew, cost for Ammo, cost for Repairs and deaths...

..and those cheapies brave heroes with planes in Arcade Ground Battles who destroy our tanks with no cost at all???

 

Enough is Enough..! Gaijin...good luck to your "plans"....

I really regreat about all those money that i was spent to gaijin...

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2016 by EL_ALeko

[Pr0letari0s 73]

Origins Battlefield 4 (even BF 3 and BF2 Bad Company ) is more fair and fun game.. This is a fact after all..

 

It is time to Installing them again to find my lost fun...

 

[PowderMonk 77]

t34 85 is totally unbalanced, and to those pretty russian fans, no I'm not against it, I'm playing it.... if i get in my own tier i just onesoot ALL I encounter, ALL. if i get overtier i can still onesoot majority of tanks, and kill tigers with some strategy. no tanks is a real treat, the chance of bounce are ridicolously high, the combo speed agility and a godlike cannon are too much for it to rest at 5.0. I don't remeber a very hard game in it, maybe the day I encountered the m18 spaam, but besides this it's just an OP tank (at 5.0)

[AW3SOM3PL 127]

Please implement a saw-zoll or rotary disc cutter.... i want this useless "IR vision" thing cut off my Panther II ! + Thanks for lowering its BR - it was really needed.

[DuckHazard 0]

I am writing this here as my other post was deleted! why I don't know?

But here i go again - matchmaking the easy way!

Make tier 1 tanks that should battle each other - Then make tier 2 tanks that should battle each other, and so on up the tiers - then you just have tier 1's fight against each other - Tier 2's fight each other, and so on up the tier's throw out the BR ratings all together!

Very simple system everyone can understand!!

Then all you have to do is if enough players think a tank should be moved into a different tier you can just move it up or down!

You can do the same with the planes!!

Then there is no one saying "Why am I in a tier 1 tank fighting a tier 3 tank or tier 1 plane fighting a tier 3 plane"

I hope this post is not deleted.

If this is posted in the wrong place please move it

 

[Idontknowwhy 87]

15 games - German tanks 7.0 and 15 loses. Nice Balance, when i was playing very good (~2-3 frag per game). German tanks are unplayable.

 

 

GG WP GAIJIN - 1 PLAYER LESS.  BYE BYE

[LIGHTNINGG 10]

FIX TU4

 

Everyone had seen it coming, and had felt it. Even the Tu4 flyers themselves. They fly it because it gives them alot of research points to grind where anywhere else they couldn't. even if they're a good fighter they would opt the Tu4 for it gives them more (i know one guy).

 

 

They ruin every BR they fly on and these are the reasons:

 

 

- BORING. intercepting a bomber at high alt with jets that are generally built for low is a slow process. i'd take dogfights over bomber interceptions. it is about 2/5 as boring as if they had sidewinders in the game

 

- Instant win/lose. They are about as or more evective than 4 b57s because they carry much more payload and could actualy take care of themselves even at an uptier PLUS one of them will only take ONE spot not four. They will either finish the airfield in a flash, or some of them get intercepted and die and not enough to take the airfield and have to go low alt to rearm. or go high alt and camp (again, boring)

 

- They control the game. the game is in the hands of the Tu4's pilot. either will it be super fast by destroying the airfield, super slow by camping up high. camp at the airfield. One way to secure win on this thing is to do a very boringly defensive flying to counter any attacks

 

- They are a deathstar. from above, from behind, from below, from the front. from anywhere i've tried they will still have a chance to knock me down. coming into them at any angle is like doing a headon.

 

- More mixed battles. Why? because on one team there's a max amount of 4 bombers. when there are more tu4 than all the match could handle, mixing their countries with the ones who has less bombers will be the only way other than slowing down the matchmaking.

 

 

so please. pleease fix it somehow

Edited July 17, 2016 by lorddingdong

[SUPERBYRD 321]

4 minutes ago, lorddingdong said:

FIX TU4

 

Everyone had seen it coming, and had felt it. Even the Tu4 flyers themselves. They fly it because it gives them alot of research points to grind where anywhere else they couldn't. even if they're a good fighter they would opt the Tu4 for it gives them more (i know one guy).

 

 

They ruin every BR they fly on and these are the reasons:

 

 

- BORING. intercepting a bomber at high alt with jets that are generally built for low is a slow process. i'd take dogfights over bomber interceptions. it is about 2/5 as boring as if they had sidewinders in the game

 

- Instant win/lose. They are about as or more evective than 4 b57s because they carry much more payload and could actualy take care of themselves even at an uptier PLUS one of them will only take ONE spot not four. They will either finish the airfield in a flash, or some of them get intercepted and die and not enough to take the airfield and have to go low alt to rearm. or go high alt and camp (again, boring)

 

- They control the game. the game is in the hands of the Tu4's pilot. either will it be super fast by destroying the airfield, super slow by camping up high. camp at the airfield. One way to secure win on this thing is to do a very boringly defensive flying to counter any attacks

 

- They are a deathstar. from above, from behind, from below, from the front. from anywhere i've tried they will still have a chance to knock me down. coming into them at any angle is like doing a headon.

 

- More mixed battles. Why? because on one team there's a max amount of 4 bombers. when there are more tu4 than all the match could handle, mixing their countries with the ones who has less bombers will be the only way other than slowing down the matchmaking.

 

 

so please. pleease fix it somehow

+1

[Serpiko82 7,875]

13 hours ago, lorddingdong said:

FIX TU4

 

They are still tough, but no longer auto-win machines:

 

 

[LIGHTNINGG 10]

16 hours ago, Serpiko82 said:

 

They are still tough, but no longer auto-win machines:

 

 

Yes your kill enough Tu4 so they wont have enough bombs to win and other things you said works on countering some things that ive just said. but there are some points that you just can't take down with the way you're heading. tu4 spam induced mixed battles *ahem*

 

Fighting against Tu4 is simply boring, and for both sides. The team whos against tu4 will have to eventually intercept the Tu4s or rearm and do slow ground attacks or wait for the special targets to spawn in. For the team who are with the Tu4 will either get slaughtered one by one by fighter disadvantage (imagine both team having the same skill level) or if they (The Tu4 allies) are well organised, 4 well tu4 coupled with high alt escorts and low alt bait rushers will smalen the chance of winning against them significantly by forcing disorder to the other team.

 

This game moves forward by gaining more fun factor and fixing problems by introducing more variety of planes, fixing flight models, gaining gameplay balance, and stuff. The devs wouldn't even introduce sidewinders because it would make the classical gun dogfight where you would have skillfuly manuver and snipe with your gun obsolete. but the Tu4 just feels like a step backwards.

Edited July 18, 2016 by lorddingdong

[MonstrumKarach 149]

On 13.07.2016. at 0:01 PM, Hunternz said:

Well guys this is Scaper's area , yes we are a team and i can answer and post here and address your concerns , but i have many project threads on the go already and diving into this one i won't have much time to have a life 

 

But your concerns here don't go unnoticed ok 

If our concerns are not being ignored, and we can trust you... right !?

 

A question: as MM system, what do you think of a base BR for any vehicle, and as player upgrades it every part has certan BR and it adds it to sum, also calculating the pilot/crew XP as well ?

 

I for instance do not use APCR ammo but have Lets say 6.0 BR on Panther A that I love to drive, and because of it I get tier 4 all the time and  I am pissed off because of it, same as I get T-54 with Konigstiger 105mm.

 

On the other side because T-34/76 with 30th lvl crew and basic training is one thing but lvl 80 with at least advanced training is different story, not to mention no lifers that buy on almost all ther tanks/planes ACE... I say all this should be influeced to get proper MM, base BR + parts that are installed + crew/pilot XP = good match.

 

Would you even consider it ??

[Luminoth 918]

I'm probably not the only one, but it is really demoralizing and outright unfair when one keeps being match made in the following way: playing tanks with max BR either 3.7; 4.0; 4,3 and you get put in almost exclusively 3,7 till 4,7 matches. It happened so often and for the entirety of a good week of progressing through those tanks that I was already looking forward to playing 4,7 and finally being the top BR player!

 

Guess what: now that play 4,7 BR tanks, most of my games range between 4,7 and 5,7. IF I'm lucky I get one or the other where 5.0 or 5.3 are the highest BR, but not a single time do I get to be top BR. IT is really frustrating to be constantly playing with glass cannons and having to face other tanks which require multiple shots of one's weak cannon.

 

If the maximum game BR variation would be 0.7 then maybe the problem wouldn't be as bad, and I really couldn't care less about waiting longer for matches to form. Which incidentally I think is a BS excuse as there were plenty of max 4.7 BR matches going on when I was playing lower BR games, so having to up-tier me now that I play 4.7 is just ridiculously arbitrary and unfair. Why is it that I have to play the game in hard mode, while the people I face play the easy version of War Thunder ground forces?

 

It just isn't fair. And if I do want a fair game I need to start and quickly lose 2 to 3 games within less than 10min to be able to exhaust all the high BR games and finally be put into something where I am at even odds with other players.

 

But, let's get serious for a sec: why can't we have games with only one BR range? I know some BR values are under represented and those should indeed be shifted over to more populated parts, but even so, with the amount of players currently playing you can easily have more even BR games. Being on the lower end of the BR stick just sucks and shouldn't be something the game promotes.

 

As I've already read before: giving the option to chose for longer search and smaller BR range vs shorter search and higher BR range should be in the game. And I'm certain everyone would use the long search for tanks and short one for planes. BR variation on planes aren't such a big deal except for bigger calibre jumps, but with tanks 1BR is just too big of a difference and Gaijin should recognize this!

[Brumpoet 327]

Apologies for first post concerning this 

 

I've come to the conclusion that you get to know every single game that you are going to lose by the way the MM rolls you around in game.

For instance how many times have you bounced shots and they have one shot killed you? or your gun takes time to target properly ?,it's a case of hard luck player this time they win .

you get teams with about as much knowledge of tanks as Hitler did about tactical warfare totally nothing ,when you do win games you get teams who know what to do yet again MM rolls you over  .It's unfair to all who play and totally unbalances the entire game play .

Yes i'm not very good i never said i was  ,yes i'm working up the tiers of each nation before the slander starts .My problem is how the hell is anyone going to have fun in a game that is undeniably unfair and unbalanced  .

If it wasn't why did Warthunder alter the Brs and MM for the meteors and high teir yet did nothing to balance low tiers as well ?

People say to me this is a fun game but now i think they mean frustrating and boring game because you have no chance of improving while it remains unbalanced and unfair .

[Brumpoet 327]

On 15/07/2016 at 4:31 PM, Koufontinas_17N said:

QUIT/Return to Hangar thats my solution all theese days.. (Untill unisntalling this totally unfair game..)

...And back to Battlefield 4 is not so bad solution anyway..

same here i've got that fed up trying to play the game and at least win while the "TEAM" sit and camp or suicide rush the cap or in domination cap one point all game ,This is now World of tanks 2 because so many campers in the game and little intelligent players its frustrating annoying at the same time no wonder people are going elsewhere 

 

On 18/07/2016 at 5:04 PM, MonstrumKarach said:

If our concerns are not being ignored, and we can trust you... right !?

 

A question: as MM system, what do you think of a base BR for any vehicle, and as player upgrades it every part has certan BR and it adds it to sum, also calculating the pilot/crew XP as well ?

 

I for instance do not use APCR ammo but have Lets say 6.0 BR on Panther A that I love to drive, and because of it I get tier 4 all the time and  I am pissed off because of it, same as I get T-54 with Konigstiger 105mm.

 

On the other side because T-34/76 with 30th lvl crew and basic training is one thing but lvl 80 with at least advanced training is different story, not to mention no lifers that buy on almost all ther tanks/planes ACE... I say all this should be influeced to get proper MM, base BR + parts that are installed + crew/pilot XP = good match.

 

Would you even consider it ??

If we are being listened to then WHY did WT only alter the high tiers planes and tanks BRs and MM and nothing else .If thats not bias and fixed i dont know what is ?

 

People are fed up of loss after loss through no fault of their own its unfair to players and eventually it will affect WT itself .I love WT but the one thing WT hasn't done that WOT has is overhaul the entire MM system to make it fairer if they can do it why not WT ?,do they always want to be in WOTs shadow when it comes to game balance and fair gaming ?,it's a sad day if they want to always be number 2 or 3 in the tanks gamer world 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Brumpoet

[MonstrumKarach 149]

This game is utter s**t, I mean after years and years it only gets worse... I mean that I will stop playing al together... its ... just s**t....

[Brumpoet 327]

On 15/07/2016 at 4:31 PM, Koufontinas_17N said:

QUIT/Return to Hangar thats my solution all theese days.. (Untill unisntalling this totally unfair game..)

...And back to Battlefield 4 is not so bad solution anyway..

same here i've got that fed up trying to play the game and at least win while the "TEAM" sit and camp or suicide rush the cap or in domination cap one point all game ,This is now World of tanks 2 because so many campers in the game and little intelligent players its frustrating annoying at the same time no wonder people are going elsewhere 

 

[Kovu11 0]

I am playing with  Russians. My best BR is 7.0 and i must say i  didn´t see any advantage in Russians. German have so good frontal armor and good weapon. Britain and American have good armor and very good weapons. Russians have bad armor (except IS-3) and bad gun (in high tiers). Russian SPG are worst in game. I have very big problem to penetrate German SPG or things like Turtle and Tortoise. But i do not have any problem penetrate Russian SPG. One of most important things is cannon depression which Russians do not have. I see one only one advantage which have Russians best in game-explosives equivalent. But your explosion is nothing when you can´t penetrate anything. For example T-44-100 have BR 7.0 and Tiger II H have BR 6.7. Tiger have bigger gun, Tiger have bigger penetration, Tiger have better armor, Tiger have more powerful engine,Tiger have faster reloading, Tiger have better cannon depression, T-44 have better only speed and turret drive so why Tiger have BR 6.7 and T-44 have 7.0? Russians have one good tanks and that are T-34 family. All other tanks for me is bad. German have all Pzkpfw V and up very good. For my real bias is Germans.

[Brumpoet 327]

Can i ask those who know who decided to have pre-war and early war vs middle and late war vehicles as obviously they are totally unbalanced .

What should happen is as suggested earlier tier vs same tier that way no one has the advantage of armour or heavier guns and shell damage .it would be even all round relying on how good the player is and not a random generated  mindless outcome 

[Leandrys 4,241]

This is a copy of a replay i did about the new "optimized" matchmaking, which retired the +/- 1 rank as a maximum limitation. It wasn't approved by moderators in the "

Update 12.07.2016 (1.59.2.59)" thread while i can't understand at all why, so i'm posting it right there :

 

Quote

Been testing it, i'll simply i do not think at all this was a positive change to the game and its matchmaking, honnestly and as example, been playing a bit my Dolgushin's LA7 in Air AB, downtiered it to 3.7 instead of original 3.7, this was just seal-clubbing at its finest, last game i did was 3.0-4.0, i was fighting guys with these types of planes as main fighters :

 

• BF109 E4 (can't fight LA7)
• BF109F1 (same)
• Yak 7B (same)
• Spitfire MkIIa (same)
• Boomerang (same)
• Ki61 (same)
• Etc...

So what was the point ? Where was the fun for these guys, where was it for me ? Been flying over everybody, nobody was able to point his cannons at me just a bit.

I'm not against canceling rank's limitations, but this shouldn't have been done without reviewing some special battleratings, too low or high for their ranks, like LA7, P51D, Yak 9u, FW190 A5U2, etc...

 

Just think a sea hurricane mk1c can now end in the same battle than a F8F1, Yak9P, I185M71, LA7B20, FW190D9... Something feels wrong, i have the feeling half of the job was forgotten about this.

 

Not done, not to be done, as we say in french.

 

What i think is when you start a modification, you think twice about it before adding it to the game, repeating myself, while i do not think this is a bad idea, it clearly wasn't polished enough to be implemented on live server, there are way too many flaws in it.

Edited July 24, 2016 by Leandrys

[*bko67 47]

I would rather have longer wait to have an even matched game, I am constantly getting uptiered and having lousey unenjoyable games. I wish they would use .3 br and lock out any of my tanks that could not be matched at this .3 difference . Or even make br matches that a person could scroll down and join if his or her vehicles was within .3, this is just some suggestions that may or may not neeed to be tweaked. Maybe some of the players that left may return and keep the ones here now. Gaijin needs to fix some of these minor and major things then add new vehicles. The game is very glitchy and laggy with flying tanks, ghost tanks, tk's and many more issues. Maybe they should just tell us this is as good as it is going to get and then we can decide what and how far we as the players  are willing to deal with or put up with, then we will know where we stand with Gaijin. 

[DasMoo 0]

matchmaking is more than just ***** up. the last ten games that i played were extremly bad. i only have rank 3 tanks. i had to fight in one game against: sturer emil, tiger 2, panther a, m4a3 (76) w. all these tanks are rank 4. i had to fight against the t95, a rank 5! tank, so often that i lost count. how am i supposed to kill this thing?!? but then again i fought against a marder while it was standing next to a panther a. well done

[Brumpoet 327]

Tonight yet again 7 games played 5 lost 2 wins how the hell is that fair and balanced .Is it balanced when a PZ IV F2 gets a side on shot at a T-50 and it takes 4 shots to kill it?

This game is so unbalanced you could put clothes on it and call it a serial killer , who decided the MM should be this bad ? and the BRs my god I've seen better battle ratings in a wrestling match .

It no wonder the You tubers prefer the opposition to this I'm not surprised in the least.

With all the experts WT have at there disposal to make a great fun game they have to resort to cheating the player base and favouring the top tier for all the changes in MM,Brs and RNG ,that is the most offensive to the loyal players how they are being treated like cash cows for the few

( no Offence meant to anyone just speaking my mind )  

Edited July 27, 2016 by Brumpoet

[Haneullim 115]

Glorious bounce mechanics working as intended!
Seriously, how does a T29's turret side armor, facing 90* at me, bounce a KWK 43 shell at point blank range?

[MaybeMaybeNot 1,759]

3 minutes ago, Derpenkampwagen said:

Glorious bounce mechanics working as intended!
Seriously, how does a T29's turret side armor, facing 90* at me, bounce a KWK 43 shell at point blank range?

 

Let's find out upload replay