[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

[FursuitKnitter911 2,122]

6 minutes ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

Hilariously, given how ridiculously underperforming it is, 3.0 BR suits it well. 

Regardless of if it is performing correctly or not, at the moment it is a 4.0+plane. Just like how even though the P47Ds are running on P47C settings, they are still undertiered.

[tobari 0]

Panther's turret have 200mm+ Armor thickness.

Panther is OP.

 

[Sh4g0h0d 1,852]

7 hours ago, Dreamtree15 said:

Regardless of if it is performing correctly or not, at the moment it is a 4.0+plane. Just like how even though the P47Ds are running on P47C settings, they are still undertiered.

At least the P-47 is running correctly for P-47C settings. Our Ki-100 is no more powerful than the Ki-61-I at 3.0 in terms of engine performance and is much less maneuverable at high speed. It can go to 4.0 when it gets a decent FM and stops significantly underperforming in horsepower at all altitudes (especially above 6km). 

[Nefer666 3,807]

15 minutes ago, tobari said:

Panther's turret have 200mm+ Armor thickness.

Panther is OP.

 

 

Congrats! You have been screwed by rng. Enjoy your stay. 

[Nomad_Gaming 6,221]

6 hours ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

At least the P-47 is running correctly for P-47C settings. Our Ki-100 is no more powerful than the Ki-61-I at 3.0 in terms of engine performance and is much less maneuverable at high speed. It can go to 4.0 when it gets a decent FM and stops significantly underperforming in horsepower at all altitudes (especially above 6km). 

The Ki-100 is something of an odd little duck. for a BR 3.0 aircraft it climbs extremely well. You're not going to outclimb spitfires, mind, but you'll get almost level with them so long as the pilot in the spitfire isn't experienced. with WEP on and spaded, the Ki-100 climbs at roughly 15-18 meters a second at about 17 degrees. I presently have a 10:1 K/D ratio in it, and the only time i died was when I accidentally rammed someone after closing in on them too quickly. No, it's not quite as good as, say, the A7M2, but it's pretty close. I'd rate it a 3.3 or 3.7 aircraft given its current performance. However, I'm perfectly happy to let it stay at 3.0 for now because of all the US pilots who like to lawn mow and don't climb.

[MaybeMaybeNot 1,759]

5 minutes ago, DracuGol said:

HELLO GUYS,

I'm new in the game and is possible that I'm wrong. It is possible that an M6A1 to fire one shot per second? In the description it starts with 7,6 seconds. I assume that he got his crew at max reloading. But still... one shot per second? I saved the reply of the battle for evidence. It is possible?

 

Hi there friend can you pm me please with replay file thanks 

[Nefer666 3,807]

8 minutes ago, DracuGol said:

HELLO GUYS,

I'm new in the game and is possible that I'm wrong. It is possible that an M6A1 to fire one shot per second? In the description it starts with 7,6 seconds. I assume that he got his crew at max reloading. But still... one shot per second? I saved the reply of the battle for evidence. It is possible?

 

M6 have coaxial 37mm cannon, so id bet he shot main gun, then secondary, but more isnt really possible. 

[Luminoth 918]

12 hours ago, DracuGol said:

HELLO GUYS,

I'm new in the game and is possible that I'm wrong. It is possible that an M6A1 to fire one shot per second? In the description it starts with 7,6 seconds. I assume that he got his crew at max reloading. But still... one shot per second? I saved the reply of the battle for evidence. It is possible?

 

Yeah it shoots really really fast. It has two cannons with each between 3 and 7s reload time. If he had been shooting continuously for a while, his cannons start to get more and more out of synch and then back in synch again. Kinda like when a police car's spinning lights rotate at different speeds, at some point the "blinking" one sees will be opposed and at some point it happens simultaneously. So it is possible that both shots were 1s apart. It is a very strong tank, but its 37mm gun barely does a scratch...

[Attic_Annie 488]

Very noticeable balance issue in the very low BRs- the flakpanzer and gepard are FAR more proficient at anti-tank than the panzerjager is.

That's both a statement on the flakpanzers being overpowered and the panzerjager being underpowered.
For starters, it makes no sense to have the panzerjager, an anti-tank SPG, start with only APC shells, as it makes it less effective over range than it should be. (APC sucks at range)

[warrior412 14,723]

1 minute ago, Wusten_Fuchs said:

Very noticeable balance issue in the very low BRs- the flakpanzer and gepard are FAR more proficient at anti-tank than the panzerjager is.

That's both a statement on the flakpanzers being overpowered and the panzerjager being underpowered.
For starters, it makes no sense to have the panzerjager, an anti-tank SPG, start with only APC shells, as it makes it less effective over range than it should be. (APC sucks at range)

 

SPAA clubs at low tier.

 

It just clubs...

[Sh4g0h0d 1,852]

4 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 

SPAA clubs at low tier.

 

It just clubs...

By the same token, SPAA at low tiers can easily be killed by even MG fire. 

[warrior412 14,723]

10 minutes ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

By the same token, SPAA at low tiers can easily be killed by even MG fire. 

 

By the time you might get your guns on them, you are long dead.

[Sh4g0h0d 1,852]

3 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

By the time you might get your guns on them, you are long dead.

Most tank engagements are decided by who shoots first. 

[warrior412 14,723]

3 minutes ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

Most tank engagements are decided by who shoots first. 

 

SPAA are the best tanks at low tier.

 

What little armor is had is irrelevant and SPAA shoots many times quicker. By the time you get one shot off, the other guy has gotten many off. If you miss, you're done but if he misses he still has a stream for you.

 

SPAA at low tier just crushes tanks--of course, when their team get bombed no one gets angry with the SPAA players for masquerading as incognito tank destroyers when they should have been vigilant on the skies.

[Flak_Dancer 9,733]

I can remeber when german have larger queues, it was enough for a urgent express general BRs changes :

But now we have the same problem with the other side, but is not a problem any more for Gaijin )))

 

[Sh4g0h0d 1,852]

5 hours ago, Jagd27 said:

I can remeber when german have larger queues, it was enough for a urgent express general BRs changes :

But now we have the same problem with the other side, but is not a problem any more for Gaijin )))

 

People have figured out that Russian teams in RB tanks are awful and have switched to Germans as a result. 

 

What do you suggest doing? Uptier the later Panzer IVs and StuGs? Downtier the T-34s? Because I can guarantee you that neither of those changes would be positive for balance. 

[KillstreakGaming 656]

23 hours ago, warrior412 said:

 

SPAA are the best tanks at low tier.

 

What little armor is had is irrelevant and SPAA shoots many times quicker. By the time you get one shot off, the other guy has gotten many off. If you miss, you're done but if he misses he still has a stream for you.

 

SPAA at low tier just crushes tanks--of course, when their team get bombed no one gets angry with the SPAA players for masquerading as incognito tank destroyers when they should have been vigilant on the skies.

      i don't know if you've been playing light tanks the entire time or you've been blindly using your aircraft to shoot them down because last time i was ever killed by a low tier SPAA was months ago, i apparently managed to kill a SPAA but died at the same time in his hands.

 

      No SPAA in lower tiers can club, their main gun is 12.7mm to 27mm so nearly all tanks have enough armor to block their shells, also their armor is pretty terrible you just need to use your machine guns and there.

 

     To be completely honest i don't know if your just that bad of a player or your trying trolling this entire topic, but even players of level 2 can agree they are terrible at facing tanks.

Edited August 10, 2016 by KillstreakGaming

[Serpiko82 7,875]

Excuse me, I'm putting it here since it's a balance issue, but not worth opening a new thread... 

 

Today's ground task for the SUMMER event is "set enemy vehicles on fire 25(!) times", and apparently NO RB/SB multipliers are considered. Is that intended?

[Sh4g0h0d 1,852]

13 minutes ago, KillstreakGaming said:

      i don't know if you've been playing light tanks the entire time or you've been blindly using your aircraft to shoot them down because last time i was ever killed by a low tier SPAA was months ago, i apparently managed to kill a SPAA but died at the same time in his hands.

 

      No SPAA in lower tiers can club, their main gun is 12.7mm to 27mm so nearly all tanks have enough armor to block their shells, also their armor is pretty terrible you just need to use your machine guns and there.

 

     To be completely honest i don't know if your just that bad of a player or your trying trolling this entire topic, but even players of level 2 can agree they are terrible at facing tanks.

The 12.7mm M2 is very capable of penning most vehicles up to about BR 2.3. 20mm, 30mm, and 37mm are even more effective. The Gepard, Sdkfz. 6/2, 72-K GAZ, ZUT-37, T17, and M16 are terrors at BRs 1.7 up to 3.0. 

[warrior412 14,723]

23 minutes ago, KillstreakGaming said:

      i don't know if you've been playing light tanks the entire time or you've been blindly using your aircraft to shoot them down because last time i was ever killed by a low tier SPAA was months ago, i apparently managed to kill a SPAA but died at the same time in his hands.

 

Using "aircraft to shoot them down"...huh? Aircraft can really shoot down tanks, so I don't really get what you're trying to say with this.

 

23 minutes ago, KillstreakGaming said:

To be completely honest i don't know if your just that bad of a player or your trying trolling this entire topic, but even players of level 2 can agree they are terrible at facing tanks.

 

Au contraire, it would appear that you are familiar with neither the Flakpanzer nor the Gepard. This is the information for their HVAP belts:

 

Spoiler

 

To move past your allegation that it must just be a quirk of light tanks that they be vulnerable to SPAA, here is the T-35--the premium Russian heavy tank:

 

Spoiler

 

The relevant portion is contained in the red box.

 

I'm not sure if you are just unfamiliar with these vehicles or have made an unintentional writing error, but going by the numbers even the newest of players can see that SPAA present a very real threat against tanks at low tier.

Edited August 10, 2016 by warrior412

[PainGod85 8,050]

5 hours ago, KillstreakGaming said:

      I don't know if you've been playing light tanks the entire time or you've been blindly using your aircraft to shoot them down, because the last time I was ever killed by a low tier SPAA was months ago. I apparently managed to kill an SPAA but died at the same time at his hands.

 

      No SPAA in lower tiers can club, their main guns are 12.7mm to 27mm, so nearly all tanks have enough armor to block their shells. Also, their armor is pretty terrible, you just need to use your machine guns and there.

 

     To be completely honest, I don't know if you're just that bad of a player or (you're) trying trolling this entire topic, but even players at level 2 can agree they are terrible at facing tanks.

 

Seeing as the factual inconsistencies in your post have largely been addressed by people with more knowledge on GF than me, I went about educating you as to your grammatical prowess, or rather, your lack thereof.

 

You're welcome.

Edited August 10, 2016 by PainGod85

[Sh4g0h0d 1,852]

5 hours ago, PainGod85 said:

 

Seeing as the factual inconsistencies in your post have largely been addressed by people with more knowledge on GF than me, I went about educating you as to your grammatical prowess, or rather, your lack thereof.

 

You're welcome.

And I thought yellow text was awful to read! This is even worse! 

[PainGod85 8,050]

16 minutes ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

And I thought yellow text was awful to read! This is even worse! 

 

And here I was, just intending to make that guy see how painful it was for me to wade through the grammatical minefield he calls his writing.

[gameishard 2]

I can't speak for ground forces, as I almost exclusively play air realistic, but IMO almost all bias/balance issues really come down to map design.  

I think the game-makers have done a commendable job realistically modeling a great number of planes, but the map design and game mechanics existing in these maps have a tendency to inflate/bias certain roles and attributes.  We have a game with precision attackers, heavy saturation bombers, close air support fighters, interceptors, night fighters, etcetcetc, all crafted for different roles- yet, the map design and victory conditions strongly suit only 2 roles: aerial interceptor and precision ground attack.  

 

Think about the planes that everyone cries "op" over.  They're likely one of the best-in-class climbers or initial acceleration.

 

My solution- either segregate plane types by role, ala flight of the concords/guardian angel style, so that each plane may fight in a way that it was intended for, or put a smattering of victory conditions on each map, enabling each role to win in their own way.  Right now, the two biggest roles with little functionality are high altitude fighters and heavy bomber saturation targets.  

 

To remedy the former, I'd put an AI bomber squadron on each map flying at 25,000 and scale it's strength/numbers such that several players, working together without enemy harassment could down the squad in 10-15 minutes and clinch victory.  For the latter, I'd put in larger city targets (think bases but far larger, unable to be missed by bombs dropped at 25,000), and again, scale their HP accordingly.  

 

If players found victories were too easily won by these new objectives, I would rescale existing ground target HP and numbers such that either team, with either 'role' of planes would have an equal obstacle to victory.

 

 

TL:DR- people cry imbalance and bias because nations' had different design philosophies, and the current map design/win conditions call solely for aerial interceptors, especially those with low/medium altitude performance.

Edited August 10, 2016 by gameishard

[Shader12 6,320]

13 hours ago, KillstreakGaming said:

      i don't know if you've been playing light tanks the entire time or you've been blindly using your aircraft to shoot them down because last time i was ever killed by a low tier SPAA was months ago, i apparently managed to kill a SPAA but died at the same time in his hands.

 

      No SPAA in lower tiers can club, their main gun is 12.7mm to 27mm so nearly all tanks have enough armor to block their shells, also their armor is pretty terrible you just need to use your machine guns and there.

 

     To be completely honest i don't know if your just that bad of a player or your trying trolling this entire topic, but even players of level 2 can agree they are terrible at facing tanks.

 

You drunk?

 

 

Flakpanzer, GaZ, T17?

 

There is a reason British tier I SPAA does have that BR, my young, less experienced friend.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Shader12