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[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

Scarper

By Scarper,
in General Discussion

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BigBawsBarabus

BigBawsBarabus 2,064

Posted
2 minutes ago, xUSSRx_Jesus_PwN said:

I am new to the forums so I do not know really much, so thank you for warning me,

and yea i know but something has to happen about it.

I suggest You read the rules to prevent any further issues :)

 

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Twisted_Tea

Twisted_Tea 327

Posted

BR spread 

Make a max BR spread .7, I don't mind waiting and extra 10 seconds to get into a game. RB tanks is ridiculous when you are at the bottom of the BR, sometimes you cannot even hurt the other vehicles because they are so much higher.

 

Matchmaker: 

Anyone ever notice playing as a 4 person squad that you always get out at the bottom of the BR spread with terrible team mates? When I play in a squad of 2 I am normally in the middle of the BR spread, squad of 3 normally near the bottom, squad of 4 at the bottom. Playing solo I never know where it will put me. I don't think people playing RB tanks should be punished for playing in a 3 or 4 person squad. 

 

 

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Twisted_Tea

Twisted_Tea 327

Posted (edited)
On September 4, 2016 at 0:14 AM, Hunternz said:

How often is this happening 

 

 

If you could pm me with , screenshots and clogs file please those who are finding this more of a frequent occurrence. Thanks guys 

I have seen it happen but not saying the game or MM is at fault. Many people still do not understand how to build a lineup or they will have something like a 6.7 tank in their lineup and then decide to play a 4.0 tank to spade it or something like that. Even people using the m22 Locust in 7.0 games, not because they got screwed on the MM but they still have a high BR tank in their lineup and don't care about their team mates or winning. Or yoi could have 3 people in a squad have a 4.7 lineup and then the 4th squad member is playing 6.7, that would cause them all to be in a possible 6.7-7.7 game. 

Edited by I_AM_ALLAH
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Twisted_Tea

Twisted_Tea 327

Posted
11 minutes ago, mts_wt said:

So... any rumors of BR adjustments soon? I personally wait for T-34's going up or/and M4's(76) going down.

Nope, it's a firm No from what I hear. There has been talk about expanding the 1.0 spread to a 1.3 spread.

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mts_wt

mts_wt 53

Posted
2 minutes ago, I_AM_ALLAH said:

Nope, it's a firm No from what I hear. There has been talk about expanding the 1.0 spread to a 1.3 spread.

Dude u kidding me here ? or it's just going..... nowhere.

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Twisted_Tea

Twisted_Tea 327

Posted
4 minutes ago, mts_wt said:

Dude u kidding me here ? or it's just going..... nowhere.

Gaijin wants games to happen instantly. While I would rather wait 30 seconds to get into a game for a fair match. I wouldn't mind waiting 5 minutes for a match if it was even. The logic of instant games seems nice but in reality you are screwing anyone lower than the top two BR ratings. 

 

It it just a rumor right now, not sure how credible the source is but I wouldn't doubt it.

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warrior412

warrior412 14,723

Posted
23 minutes ago, mts_wt said:

So... any rumors of BR adjustments soon? I personally wait for T-34's going up or/and M4's(76) going down.

 

Honestly I don't think the T-34s are terribly off where they ought to be in light of much of the opposition they face (particularly out of Germany).

 

The Shermans...well, I've only used the first two and the 105mm variant. I dislike the latter but adore the first two 75mm variants. In fact, I prefer them to the T-34s myself. The Shermans are lovely in my opinion and I am looking forward to the later variants.

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mts_wt

mts_wt 53

Posted
5 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

Honestly I don't think the T-34s are terribly off where they ought to be in light of much of the opposition they face (particularly out of Germany).

 

The Shermans...well, I've only used the first two and the 105mm variant. I dislike the latter but adore the first two 75mm variants. In fact, I prefer them to the T-34s myself. The Shermans are lovely in my opinion and I am looking forward to the later variants.

Yeah go for them. Disappointment guaranteed. Some OHK's from T-34 / 57 , / 85's , tigers, and stuff and you will understand why I want either T-34's up or M4's (76) down. Man you gonna feel soo helpless there, its much much worse than M4(75) vs T-34(76)

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Twisted_Tea

Twisted_Tea 327

Posted
17 minutes ago, warrior412 said:

 

Honestly I don't think the T-34s are terribly off where they ought to be in light of much of the opposition they face (particularly out of Germany).

 

The Shermans...well, I've only used the first two and the 105mm variant. I dislike the latter but adore the first two 75mm variants. In fact, I prefer them to the T-34s myself. The Shermans are lovely in my opinion and I am looking forward to the later variants.

What play style do you use for them? I played the 3.3 Sherman until I unlocked the m24, used that to grind to 6.0 (T25) and skipped all those Shermans completely. I never found a good Sherman. 

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xUSSRx_Jesus_PwN

xUSSRx_Jesus_PwN 0

Posted
8 hours ago, I_AM_ALLAH said:

BR spread 

Make a max BR spread .7, I don't mind waiting and extra 10 seconds to get into a game. RB tanks is ridiculous when you are at the bottom of the BR, sometimes you cannot even hurt the other vehicles because they are so much higher.

 

Matchmaker: 

Anyone ever notice playing as a 4 person squad that you always get out at the bottom of the BR spread with terrible team mates? When I play in a squad of 2 I am normally in the middle of the BR spread, squad of 3 normally near the bottom, squad of 4 at the bottom. Playing solo I never know where it will put me. I don't think people playing RB tanks should be punished for playing in a 3 or 4 person squad. 

 

 

I know your pain man, thats why its not cool to play 6.7 tanks and espiecally the worst one out there, is 2 mod 44

you could meet tanks you cant even scratch at 10 m and  they can one shot you at any range.. still in general getting uptired isnt fun at all, imagine seeing tiger 2 h or is 3 as top tier at kursk, now thats true terror

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xUSSRx_Jesus_PwN

xUSSRx_Jesus_PwN 0

Posted
7 hours ago, I_AM_ALLAH said:

What play style do you use for them? I played the 3.3 Sherman until I unlocked the m24, used that to grind to 6.0 (T25) and skipped all those Shermans completely. I never found a good Sherman. 

Well thats acutally smart since the first 2 shermans are really great others ones are really really bad, once i pen a jadgpanther and only got its gunner green  on m4 76 , lol

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Black_Reaper95

Black_Reaper95 44

Posted (edited)

When did Gajin changed the BR for I-15 WR? Just saw one in the jet battle without any squad mate. Yeah IN THE JET BATTLE!!! See the screenshot of the replay. Happened just few minutes ago.

 

Spoiler

Biplane in jet battle.png

 

Edited by Black_Reaper95
Covering names up
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Sh4g0h0d

Sh4g0h0d 1,852

Posted
2 hours ago, Black_Reaper95 said:

When did Gajin changed the BR for I-15 WR? Just saw one in the jet battle without any squad mate. Yeah IN THE JET BATTLE!!! See the screenshot of the replay. Happened just few minutes ago.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Biplane in jet battle.png

 

If you squad up with someone, it goes off the highest BR in the squad. As you saw, this allows people to take a biplane into top-tier jet battles. It's utterly hilarious for the biplane pilot. 

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warrior412

warrior412 14,723

Posted
1 minute ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

If you squad up with someone, it goes off the highest BR in the squad. As you saw, this allows people to take a biplane into top-tier jet battles. It's utterly hilarious for the biplane pilot. 

 

It's no joke for the jets.

 

I remember my best Beaufighter Mk. 21 game: 3 jet kills (2 MiG-9/Lates + 1 IL-28)

 

I only died because the IL-28's wreckage rammed me. :Ps

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zwergziege

zwergziege 1,533

Posted
9 hours ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

If you squad up with someone, it goes off the highest BR in the squad. As you saw, this allows people to take a biplane into top-tier jet battles. It's utterly hilarious for the biplane pilot. 

 

No squadding required: In AB you can take any plane you want into any higher tier battle you want as long as your top plane is in that higher tier. I regularly take my He-112s into battle with my MiG-15bis and CL-13 and turn-fight any jet dumb enough to agree to it.

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Black_Reaper95

Black_Reaper95 44

Posted
16 hours ago, Sh4g0h0d said:

If you squad up with someone, it goes off the highest BR in the squad. As you saw, this allows people to take a biplane into top-tier jet battles. It's utterly hilarious for the biplane pilot. 

 

 

7 hours ago, zwergziege said:

 

No squadding required: In AB you can take any plane you want into any higher tier battle you want as long as your top plane is in that higher tier. I regularly take my He-112s into battle with my MiG-15bis and CL-13 and turn-fight any jet dumb enough to agree to it.

 

I know about the trolling squads, I checked the statistic when I saw red "I-15" floating around in sky. The problem is that he was not in any squad, he had shown up late into the battle. Also the battle wasn't AB at all, it was RB. So now, was it a bug that landed his biplane into the jet battle?

 

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Nomad_Gaming

Nomad_Gaming 6,221

Posted (edited)

Just going to leave this here:

 

Note: This data is across all players and all servers for which Thunderskill has data. This is not my own, personal, play data.

5 hours ago, Nomad_Gaming said:

Never. I present to you vehicle stats, courtesy of Thunderskill.ru:

 

http://thunderskill.com/en/vehicles#type=army&role=all&country=all

 

General info for Leopard I

germ_leopard_I.png
  • CountryGermany
  • Vehicle roleMedium Tank
  • Rank5
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles7.7
    • realistic battles8
    • simulator battles7.7

 

 

 

Leopard I / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General info for RakJPz 2

germ_raketenjagdpanzer_2.png
  • CountryGermany
  • Vehicle roleAnti-tank missile carrier
  • Rank5
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles8
    • realistic battles7.7
    • simulator battles7.7

 

 

 

RakJPz 2 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General info for M60A1

us_m60a1.png
  • CountryUSA
  • Vehicle roleMedium Tank
  • Rank5
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles8
    • realistic battles8
    • simulator battles7.7

 

 

 

 

 

 

M60A1 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

General info for T-54 1951

ussr_t_54_1951.png
  • CountryUSSR
  • Vehicle roleMedium Tank
  • Rank5
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles7.7
    • realistic battles7.7
    • simulator battles7.7

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

T-54 1951 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

The T-62:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

General info for T-62

ussr_t_62.png
  • CountryUSSR
  • Vehicle roleMedium Tank
  • Rank5
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles8
    • realistic battles8
    • simulator battles8

 

 

 

T-62 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

The IT-1:

 

General info for IT-1

ussr_it_1.png
  • CountryUSSR
  • Vehicle roleAnti-tank missile carrier
  • Rank5
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles8
    • realistic battles8
    • simulator battles8

 

 

 

IT-1 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

The T-54-1949:

 

General info for T-54 1949

ussr_t_54_1949.png
  • CountryUSSR
  • Vehicle roleMedium Tank
  • Rank5
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles7.7
    • realistic battles7.7
    • simulator battles7.7

 

 

 

T-54 1949 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Notice something about those stats? 

 

That's right. The Soviet vehicles at tier 5 win the majority of their battles. Yet they're still bitching about the Leopard 1.

 

oh, and just for xxxx and giggles:

 

General info for T-34-85

ussr_t_34_85_zis_53.png
  • CountryUSSR
  • Vehicle roleMedium Tank
  • Rank4
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles5.3
    • realistic battles5.3
    • simulator battles5.3

 

 

 

T-34-85 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now the tiger 1H:

 

General info for Tiger H1

germ_pzkpfw_VI_ausf_h1_tiger.png
  • CountryGermany
  • Vehicle roleHeavy Tank
  • Rank3
  • Battle rating in
    • arcade battles5.7
    • realistic battles5.7
    • simulator battles5.7

 

Tiger H1 / statistics for the last month

These may be very different from the real, because we are monitoring only those players who use our site.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's this about "muh OP Tiger now?"

 

Edited by Nomad_Gaming
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CryoLew

CryoLew 89

Posted

I love bias claims they are simply hilarious.  Its funny how my underpowered Tiger is awesome & yet my overpowered T-34 dies everytime I get shot at :).  Its totally not subjective & entirely situational in any way :).  Because of course Gaijin didnt make the Tigers exhaust shroud 1 mm thicker its UP :)

No seriously I would like to meet the players that play so well the Matilda is a 3.0 & so poorly the Thunderbolts a 3.0 :D

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Nomad_Gaming

Nomad_Gaming 6,221

Posted
2 hours ago, M18A1_Claymore said:

I love bias claims they are simply hilarious.  Its funny how my underpowered Tiger is awesome & yet my overpowered T-34 dies everytime I get shot at :).  Its totally not subjective & entirely situational in any way :).  Because of course Gaijin didnt make the Tigers exhaust shroud 1 mm thicker its UP :)

No seriously I would like to meet the players that play so well the Matilda is a 3.0 & so poorly the Thunderbolts a 3.0 :D

 

You misunderstand the data that I posted. It's across all servers in the game, not specific to me personally. So, for all the players who have their statistics posted on warthunder, the Tiger wins an average of 48% of the time, while the T-34-85 wins an average of 69.5% of the time. 

 

Do you honestly think i could play 21,000 games in a tank I don't have in the space of one month?

 

 

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EN3MY

EN3MY 762

Posted

I havent played for s long time due to the BR and MM issue. Just played a few matches to be able to write again. 

Why i did quit has severall reasons. 

The MM is awfull. i took my stock 109 E4 at 2.7 and in 3 matches i fought fully upgraded 3.7 planes. why did i know? i was asking some of them. Why isnt it possible to have the same chances beeing top or low tier? it isnt equal. i made severall posts about that some time ago. 

Another reason is the performance matching vehicles from ww2 with lvehicles build 15 years later. for me the difference in pure performance is often so unequal. 

Thats what brings the to the major reason why i quit. The BR- System. When you let the skill of the users decide how high the BR change will be it is (due to the lack of informatrion about your secret data) causing a lot of frustration. there where so many planes or tanks which entered the game with a wrong BR. I still remmber when you placed the Banshee at 6.7 into the game. you couldnt fly any plane 5.7 without getting clubbed by them.

So when you have a plane which is good and got the wrong BR people will abuse this. As there are more bad then good players (like in nearly every game), the unskilled will maybe perform a little bit better but in summary they will throw away their vehicles. 

So how can you get am accurate BR for this plane or tank? we had that for a long time with US-Planes. They did turnfight with zeros and got killed. But when a skilled player uses this plane well he got a gamebreaking weapon in his hand. 

 

For me the whole BR System is a fail. The spread is to big, the way it gets adjusted, no one knows. matching "early and late" tanks is unbalancing the game. when one player needs mostly just one shot to kill or seriously damage an opponent while the other has to wait for his mistake to be able to take him out then something is wrong and the fun i had wth this game got completely killed. 

 

 

 

On 26.4.2016 at 3:44 PM, Scarper said:

I did in the initial post:
 

There's currently a thread going in the WTPC section where players are claiming that the better you play the higher chance you have of being uptiered (ie. If you're in 4.0 Vehicles, being placed in a game with a BR Spread of 4.0-5.0). As someone with an Average Percentile above 90% in AB, I don't believe this is the case, and you would assume if that system was in place I would be regularly tiered up.

From my experience, so anecdotal, it depends more on how many players are available in each tier at any given time. In Ground Forces for example, BR 5.7 features some of the most popular tanks of the war with the Tiger I and Panther, so queuing at a BR of 5 will tier you up in the majority of games.

But this system is so bad. what if i want to get the upgrades for my 4.0 tank. i had made severall statistiks about my matchups. As an example on 2-3 days i was just playing the sherman firefly to get all upgrades. on this day i was fighting against an average opponent of + 0.85 BR. sure you can fight them but only if you can flank them or they show the weak spot. but what if not??? then you get one-shotted all day long after hitting them 3-4 times not beeing able to pen or damage them enough. 

this were the days when  i diecided to quit. 

 

 

G.... BR-System forces or invites player to missuse it. this is just sad.

 

regards

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starkwolf

starkwolf 609

Posted
3 hours ago, EN3MY said:

I havent played for s long time due to the BR and MM issue. Just played a few matches to be able to write again. 

Why i did quit has severall reasons. 

The MM is awfull. i took my stock 109 E4 at 2.7 and in 3 matches i fought fully upgraded 3.7 planes. why did i know? i was asking some of them. Why isnt it possible to have the same chances beeing top or low tier? it isnt equal. i made severall posts about that some time ago. 

Another reason is the performance matching vehicles from ww2 with lvehicles build 15 years later. for me the difference in pure performance is often so unequal. 

Thats what brings the to the major reason why i quit. The BR- System. When you let the skill of the users decide how high the BR change will be it is (due to the lack of informatrion about your secret data) causing a lot of frustration. there where so many planes or tanks which entered the game with a wrong BR. I still remmber when you placed the Banshee at 6.7 into the game. you couldnt fly any plane 5.7 without getting clubbed by them.

So when you have a plane which is good and got the wrong BR people will abuse this. As there are more bad then good players (like in nearly every game), the unskilled will maybe perform a little bit better but in summary they will throw away their vehicles. 

So how can you get am accurate BR for this plane or tank? we had that for a long time with US-Planes. They did turnfight with zeros and got killed. But when a skilled player uses this plane well he got a gamebreaking weapon in his hand. 

 

I wonder if the skill-based MM ever got changed. I know they used to have it where if you were good, you would have good players on your team and get matched against good players. I thought they retracted that though. 

 

Also, was this all done on the same night, at the same time?

 

I generally don't have trouble with my tank lineup of TigerH1, PantherD, .... and Me410B6R3 (the lowest I think is Wirbelwind). However, if I am playing between 10PM US Central Time and 1AM US Central, eventually I start getting crazy uptiered. This is pretty much every night without fail, sooner or later. The rest of the day, however, I don't have trouble with it. 
 

 

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Sh4g0h0d

Sh4g0h0d 1,852

Posted
10 minutes ago, starkwolf said:

 

I wonder if the skill-based MM ever got changed. I know they used to have it where if you were good, you would have good players on your team and get matched against good players. I thought they retracted that though. 

 

Also, was this all done on the same night, at the same time?

 

I generally don't have trouble with my tank lineup of TigerH1, PantherD, .... and Me410B6R3 (the lowest I think is Wirbelwind). However, if I am playing between 10PM US Central Time and 1AM US Central, eventually I start getting crazy uptiered. This is pretty much every night without fail, sooner or later. The rest of the day, however, I don't have trouble with it. 
 

 

This is because of a simple reason: the less players that are online for a given server network, the fewer matches cna be made and the more the matchmaker will uptier people in order to make games. 

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