[Discussion] Balance, Bias, Matchmaking and Battle Ratings

[richthofen122 1,455]

1 hour ago, Ion_Protogen said:

It has 42mm pen, it cant go past 2.0 or else it will be useless.

 

It certainly isn't fun to fight at 1.0-1.7, the m/40 is speedy, squishy and the Autocannon absolutely shreds. I've seen other lvl 100s completely slaughter low tier with it these days.

[D00MBrInG3r777 97]

Okay I will be long, boring and brutally honest here.. There is something wrong with the game and it's a big problem, we all know it or just refuse to. I'm probably gonna repeat what they already say.. but I want to contribute a little as I can.

 

 

Every time no mater what I do, If I do good, or maybe a couple of other players on my side get 7,8 kills or more it doesn't really mater. 95% of the time we get MAULED by t80bvm's who just press W and bounce a lot of ridiculous shots to the side,

 

if that's not enough.. they hop in their ka50'52's which there is no counter if they are smart..

 

While that happens they have Pantsir to  clear skies of our CAS and negate our helicopters completely(don't tell me about PARS eurocopter it's not enough). But even if you manage to do good in CAS you have all the other factors that will make you loose the game.

 

So now it's just playing to lose against Russia at top tier.

 

I'm not into conspiracy theories but I am not dumb. Every western tank is nerfed with their armor while Russians, yes the 20 ton lighter tanks get the best armor, great speed, low weight, great armor, great gun and they are cheap as hell compared to the other tanks.. I mean it's just ridiculous how much they are broken.

 

If that's not enough let's bring the most under tiered vehicle in the game, bmp2m. 11.0 at least vehicle that sits at 9.3. !

And if that's not enough too let's talk about all purpose 2s38 premium also 11.0 at least that sit's as a premium at 9.7..!

All while HSTVL is sitting at 11.0... tallk about balance in this game and favorism. -- and this is me talking just from the top of my head without research... just naming a few.

 

Su 25 getting it's damage model fixed FINALY..only after PhlyDaily basically made a video that it's too tanky and overpowered soo much that it's comical. 

Even in his voice you can hear the obvious disappointment that he has for the Gajin and the game in general. It's so obvious when you read between the lines of he Youtube content creators.

 

Either it's pure favorism bias or just complete incompetence on their part. And I don't know which of that two is worse...both are not good for the game.

 

It's just typical Slavic mindset, I know it cause I have it, I'm Slavic. 

Having so much of the monopoly on something that you become careless and not giving two cents anymore and you do what you want to do because you can.

I wont bring what other world factors can lie in the decisions that they make... 

 

And as someone else said on these forums, it's proven that people in big companies can and will be biased over something. And that can have impact in game.

 

You can barely find harsh criticism on this forum because it immediately get's shut down and trown into this ''balance,bias,matchmaking dumpster that nobody looks and where everything is mixed up so that you have a hard time following some wave of ''hate'' and jumping on the wagon and following the topic'' 

I made a good thread once and it got merged with this pile of rubbish as soon as it got attention

. So that's how they do things latelly. I remmember the old times they were quite different back in 2014,2015 on forums.

It's not always rant and attack on the company like the moderators say!

If you want to tell your opinion cause you love the game and want it to be better than it already is!

Almost everybody here is here because they want to make contribution to make a game better at the end of the day. They don't treat us that way. 

 

You can't say that to your customers that pay 3000 dollars and more, come to your forum to tell you something. And you be like go away you are blocked, against the rules.. next please

Okay many of them are really ridiculous and should be locked but many times it's the moderation overreaction. Are they allowing them to be like that on purpose?

 

So what is the best solution? Having balance across all NINE nations that people can pay REAL money to play and get EVEN and awesome game at multiplayer? - - NO?

Is that worth 70, 60 dollars?-- NO?

 

I guess I'm one of those who are stupid enough to buy into crap cause I love machines and vehicles and i spent quite a few bucks, and there is no alternative. So that's the cards

that they have right now and are playing them at the fullest.

In this state as soon as some other game comes along I would gladly jump to play there and I know many people are feeling the same.

 

I'm being too honest now and I don't care if you ban, lock or delete this comment. I'm a loyal customer since the start and as I said I love this game but I sure as hell would

like it even more for what it could've become.

 

So yeah, let me repeat

 

Every game it's just lose,lose,lose at top tier against Russia no mater what nation I chose. It's just not fun. My friend who doesn't know how to play this game as I do, has for the first time positive k/d. You can guess in which tank that is? Let me help you-- t80bvm.  

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by D00MBrInG3r777

[chomiake 769]

By the way, I just love how literally nothing is done about the sorry state of balance in the game. Just funnel all threads into this one to shut up the complainers and that's all.

 

And then the thread will be deleted like helicopter feedback lol

[AJ2toke 84]

Not only is the grind incredibly hard and very long, it takes years to reach top tier. Then when you finally have a nice line up you have to face the reality of the unfair unblanaced game this is, its a slap in the face for everyone who dumped so much time and money into this game. The devs are russian, why is the Bias so obvios? I can play a week long for top tier US and lose 90% of the time, russian tanks are incredibly hard to kill, then they have incredible cas, then SPAA. Then you play Russia and you win almost every game and US tanks blow up with ease, its all a lie!! SHAME ON YOU GAIJIN

[Real K Soze@live 407]

13 hours ago, D00MBrInG3r777 said:

In this state as soon as some other game comes along I would gladly jump to play there and I know many people are feeling the same.

 

First of all: Outstanding comment - respect!

 

I picked out this quote as it describes my situation perfectly - despite being aware of so many flaws i continue playing due to missing alternatives.

 

But imho the players are part of the problem too.

 

I mean even if you try to ask direct questions to gaijin and create a specific forum thread to put attention to this question there is no support in the player base for specific issues. I created today a Question to the Team regarding a simple topic (Unbalanced map design) with the main question if player feedback is considered or not - as the missing replies/answers/feedback could lead to the conclusion it might be useless and this thread is the black hole for this forum. 

 

 

If you compare the total number of views of my thread in the Air RB section, poll participants and the views of my question to the team and reactions by viewers you might come to the conclusion that they do not understand or simply just don't care about the problem of the underlying issue of missing feedback from or real exchange with gaijin.

 

The most frequent threads in the recent past (squad name issue and custom avatar) are not even gameplay related and are just mirroring the overall trend in public exchanges (exchanges not debates as a debate or even a discussion would require a content related focus) to look, to say it polite, just on the color of a car - so without looking under the hood and not the actual performance. 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Uncle J Wick@live

[cortbowan@psn 225]

I wonder if any of the Devs even reads the feedback from the player base.

I’ve not seen any surveys where constructive feedback has been gathered and I’ve not seen anything in the forum either.

 

It seems that “feedback” is all directed here, where it is commonly ignored…yay!

 

Oh in case Devs are reading this thread and value feedback:

 

The helicopter spam by the russians in 11.3 (soon 11.7) is disrupting any somewhat competitve and positive experience I have in a ground vehicle.

 

The russian top tier vehicles, and that nowadays starts at 9.3BR with the BMP-2M and onwards, are either intentionally overpowered or all other vehicles intentionally underpowered. 

 

The usage of helicopters and planes in top tier has now become a russian privilege that no other nation has. That is not just because the Pantsir got added, but also because the VT-1 missile control is now completely useless.

 

I’m sure that the overwhelming win rate of russian wins in your statistics also confirm that. Let me assure you it is not because the top players of this game play only top tier russian and everyone else is a Noo.b and suffers from severe skill issue.

 

Maybe you want to look up fromyour beloved statistics and actually interact with your customers, who actually pay your salaries and maybe ask the product manager from Gaijin for War Thunder to run a proper Voice of Customer.

I’ll happily support you on that if help is requested.

Edited April 12, 2023 by cortbowan@psn

[AJ2toke 84]

Why doesnt the top tier round for US tanks pen the front of a t80bvm? Side shots also, the side armor on the bvm eats the shot up. Mean wile us tanks pop like nothing if hit from the front. Its bs! The russian drone also gets 10km range instead of everyone else getting 8km. The russia SPAA can shoot at you from 15km away, as soon as you spawn it pings you. mean wile everyone else gets 10km range. Russia gets the best everything in this game and its rediculouse.You are a greedy biased company and one day it will catch up to you, karma and you will pay!

 

Russias win rate would be 90% if it wasent for that they mix match making and teams play with russia on their side. Its ridiculouse the Bias this game has! SHAME ON YOU GAIJIN!

Edited April 13, 2023 by AJ2toke

[D00MBrInG3r777 97]

3 hours ago, Golden_Tomcat said:

POV one Round with zero Motivation just for this Screenshot.

All I did is W and shoot.

 

Get the xxxx Rid of your stupid BIAS

 

 

 

 

Edit: Next Match.. Just W and left Mouse Button so boring

 

Yep I feel you completely. That's why I don't play with them. I don't see how anyone finds that this is fun. Part of fun is fairness and having a challenge. At least for me.

[D00MBrInG3r777 97]

2 hours ago, AJ2toke said:

Why doesnt the top tier round for US tanks pen the front of a t80bvm? Side shots also, the side armor on the bvm eats the shot up. Mean wile us tanks pop like nothing if hit from the front. Its bs! The russian drone also gets 10km range instead of everyone else getting 8km. The russia SPAA can shoot at you from 15km away, as soon as you spawn it pings you. mean wile everyone else gets 10km range. Russia gets the best everything in this game and its rediculouse.You are a greedy biased company and one day it will catch up to you, karma and you will pay!

 

Russias win rate would be 90% if it wasent for that they mix match making and teams play with russia on their side. Its ridiculouse the Bias this game has! SHAME ON YOU GAIJIN!

Absolutely. There are anti era sabot rounds and I think we already have them in game just they are not modeled. And if only that non penetrable was the only problem. 9 out of 10 times side shots don't do nothing.

 

Not to mention that we have 75 ton Challenger tes with era blocks big and thick as almost as a bvm cupola, especially the side addons.  And yet they are only 20mm of kinetic protection. So it's a 75ton tank with 15 tons of added nothing .. and yet we have 40 ton russian tank with 5mm era cover that blocks everything!

 

Oh now we have Merkava LIC in the game. First Merkava that 4 that is not completely made from wood. Now cupola is somewhat modelet realisticaly and has better protected cheeks.

But gues what?? Other two merkava 4's are still left with wooden cheecks that can be penned with everything at top tier! HILARIOUS!!  Like why??? How can you push new vehicle that is identical to the other two but somehow has now better armor??

 

Like I said previosly, there are many many problems like this in game. But never happening for Russia. For them everything is inflated and working ever more than intended. 

We have ka50 that can shoot all 12 missiles and yet I hear that only 2 can be shot from the same time in real life. --still not fixed after years

 

Leopard 2a5,6 have turret spall multiplier so when the round penetrates it spalls even more than other tanks. And we have Russian tanks that don't spall at all! - this never got fixed

 

When you wait for the game, you can see the numbers for the russian players waiting in the loby. It's almost always 4x times larger than all the other nations.. Or even larger than all other nations combined.

 

So we have 60,70 ton tanks in the game that have sponge armor but are somehow that much heavy. At this point then can give all other tanks rolled homogeneous armor like tanks in ww2 have and it wouldn't make a difference in game when it comes to protection.

 

It's just very suprising to me that there is so little backlash and hasn't been done anything. You just can't have one nation rule everything while having other 8 nations suffer. 

I don't care if it's called bias or whatever. It's just wrong.. PEOPLE PAY REALL MONEY FOR THE GAME. We are your customers!

 

Russia has TWO top tier spaas. TWO! .. and we have Italy, Israel and Japan that have no spaa for top tier!

RIDICULOUS AND MIND BOGLING. Then please delete those nations from top tier, what's the point of people playing with type 10, Merkava or Ariete when they die they can't deal with ka 50  and cas after they die with their tanks.

Or just remove every premium that those nations have for grinding top tier cause it's nothing other than a SCAM.

They WILL NOT have a good time at top tier when they buy your 60 dollar Itally,Israel,Japan packs.. 

 

I feel like I can write a book on everything that's wrong with top tier balance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by D00MBrInG3r777

[fumiga_de_metal 1]

Firstly, I want to make it clear that I think the game is incredible, but I think it's past time to add new game modes, everyone complains about the balancing done in the game, they could create a new rb that was more faithful to history, for example, uss vs usa, axis vs allies, germany vs russia, cold war, vietnam, wwii etc with tanks of the time

Edited April 13, 2023 by fumiga_de_metal

[AJ2toke 84]

.

Edited April 14, 2023 by AJ2toke
del

[Yansomi 79]

20 hours ago, fumiga_de_metal said:

Firstly, I want to make it clear that I think the game is incredible, but I think it's past time to add new game modes, everyone complains about the balancing done in the game, they could create a new rb that was more faithful to history, for example, uss vs usa, axis vs allies, germany vs russia, cold war, vietnam, wwii etc with tanks of the time

you don't think they should fokus on balancing the already existing game modes ?, I meen they are closer to a rumblepit with cap points, where what the teams get in terms of factions, and if the players on each team uses the more effective vehicles in the start and goes for example KA-52 later in a top game has a greater impact on the game than any BR changes they could possibly do.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Yansomi

[cortbowan@psn 225]

Has anyone else noticed how Russia has only 1 Tank at 11.7 after the recent BR changes? Only the T-80BVM is now top tier...along with the Pantsir.

Sweden has now 3 Top Tier tanks, Germany 2...I see a gap in the russian portfolio that needs to be closed with a new tank at top tier

 

I really want my VT-1 to work again...

 

 

[_RemiliaScarlet__ 355]

41 minutes ago, cortbowan@psn said:

Has anyone else noticed how Russia has only 1 Tank at 11.7 after the recent BR changes? Only the T-80BVM is now top tier...along with the Pantsir.

Sweden has now 3 Top Tier tanks, Germany 2...I see a gap in the russian portfolio that needs to be closed with a new tank at top tier

 

I really want my VT-1 to work again...

 

 

 

I would assume you're getting at Russian vehicles that are "current highest-tier worthy" not being placed at the highest BR because they want to add something comparatively better there instead?

[Avetorro 215]

The only BR change that affects me is the mk24 spitfire. I never flew it in 6.7 as it was impossible to keep up with all the jets. In 6.3 you had half a chance of getting you repair costs back. Looks like another plane that will  now be gathering dust on the shelf. Why oh why Gaijin? Maybe just give it a jet engine instead?

[Yansomi 79]

3 hours ago, _Happy_Chaos_ said:

 

I would assume you're getting at Russian vehicles that are "current highest-tier worthy" not being placed at the highest BR because they want to add something comparatively better there instead?

only makes the Russian top tier lineupp cheaper to spawn in, in terms of SP in a match, lower br than the given BR = less spawn cost, that way they can keep being the top nation in top tier even if the ppl who play them suck.

 

Also the so BR worthy Italians that are prob the worst at top tier keeps getting their stuff upp BR'd, that is the least thought through decission to be added this last patch.

[Avetorro 215]

8 hours ago, Yansomi said:

you don't think they should fokus on balancing the already existing game modes ?, I meen they are closer to a rumblepit with cap points, where what the teams get in terms of factions, and if the players on each team uses the more effective vehicles in the start and goes for example KA-52 later in a top game has a greater impact on the game than any BR changes they could possibly do.

The game is incredible…unless you play sim mode. All it is now is just a means for people to earn SL in order to play the modes and machinery they like. Every game now is just a hoard of ju288 or me264 racing to bomb an airfield, even ejecting after dropping the bombs to save time getting another run in. No one seems able to afford to play the game with the vehicles they want, just the ones they can afford. And to afford them they have to spam other game modes to earn SL. This is why i much prefer IL2 as at least there people are doing what they want to, not what they have to in order to find the SL to be able to spawn a vehicle. Gaijins ridiculous economy system is killing sim mode fast, and rb will probably be next. 
 

I class myself as a reasonably good virtual pilot and I struggle to make SL, and 9 times out of 10 I end a SB game with minus 10 or 20 thousand. On the other hand if I use the premium planes I have i can get 200,000 in just over an hour if my team is the winning team. So you are forced to play those aircraft rather than the ones you want to fly. It sucks, and it’s not getting any better. The battles would be so much better if people were able to use the vehicles they want. 

[raggball 11]

There is no balance in this game... Gaijin you propaganda affected poor think. You start to be bad like World of Tanks. Shame on you! And delete this message again....

Edited April 14, 2023 by raggball

[_RemiliaScarlet__ 355]

7 hours ago, Yansomi said:

only makes the Russian top tier lineupp cheaper to spawn in, in terms of SP in a match, lower br than the given BR = less spawn cost, that way they can keep being the top nation in top tier even if the ppl who play them suck.

 

Also the so BR worthy Italians that are prob the worst at top tier keeps getting their stuff upp BR'd, that is the least thought through decission to be added this last patch.

Didn't even consider SP in that matter, that makes the Ka-50 the cheapest top tier heli to spawn in, BMP 2m cheap to spawn in, and most of their MBTs slightly cheaper as well.

 

I was going for the angle that next update they would "solve" the gap in the Soviet TT they created by adding a new BVM equivalent/ Stronger tank.

[Gruminator 610]

the S56 Tunguska is now 10.7

The FlaRakRad is 11.7

Yes, the Flablabla got a bit of better missiles, but thanks to the new nerf its complete arse (compared to before) when the targets is a bit closer and its complete helpless against ground targets unless you are really lucky.

The S56 got really nice cannons that can help with closer targets and ground targets and it got no annoying reload between two shots

Gaijin, for the love of god.. you are not helping the whole "Gaijin is biased" mood when you pull of BS like this.

And again a clown with a confused emoji.

come on. tell me why im wrong instead of just spaming that emoji, i dare you.

Edited April 17, 2023 by Gruminator

[chomiake 769]

On 12/04/2023 at 20:27, Uncle J Wick@live said:

But imho the players are part of the problem too.

years of neglection made the playerbase jaded and I can't blame them for that. Until I see genuine attempts to cover the wide division between player's needs and what devs deliver I refuse to acknowledge playerbase's fault in the current state of the game. And I've been waiting for that for several years now so I am not convinced it will ever happen.

[PzII_is_a_Crutch 359]

I'd love to see statistics over time for Arcade Ground Battles average match length (and understanding what goes into that numerator and denominator).  The number of matches that are over in under 6 minutes seems to have skyrocketed in recent months.  Sure it's anecdotal, but the only reason I can see is that the matchmaker is prioritizing queue speed over match balance.

[Real K Soze@live 407]

3 hours ago, chomiake said:

years of neglection made the playerbase jaded and I can't blame them for that. Until I see genuine attempts to cover the wide division between player's needs and what devs deliver I refuse to acknowledge playerbase's fault in the current state of the game. And I've been waiting for that for several years now so I am not convinced it will ever happen.

 

I agree to large degree your conclusions, but i claimed that the players are part of the problem - and not of the solution.

 

In case you had the chance to see a combo of data analysis pros (together with some psychologists) at work, you might have seen that individual feedback like here looks helpful for other players or some gaijin guys really interested in the game, but in the overall value of individual feedback it is highly overrated.

 

A game running over 10 years with millions of users joining and leaving is an El Dorado for investors and data experts. You can highly predict what certain players will do at which point in their game experience - even before they have decided for themselves what to do next. From an investors' perspective all you have to do is to focus on customers which invest a hell of money and to keep the balance of entertainment/fun and frustration so that the playerbase is large enough to provide the paying customers with enough targets. No rocket science.

 

Imho the job of devs within gaijin is to deliver solutions to secure and increase the cash flow and not what is good for the game or players. Ofc from their perspective.

 

My critics to the playerbase was aimed as they are like people irl - everybody minds his own business and has often no time or the passion trying to look on the whole picture. So if you try to read and understand the last 10 pages of this thread you find just a few guys trying to make connections between the more or less just repeating critics on several aspects of the game. So using the few tools you have here in a forum it just disappointing if there is no mutual support. 

 

I mean the whole tread is aimed to address weaknesses. And it looks like a black hole as there is zero response.

 

If you read the various community rules precisely you might realize that it makes actually no sense to post anything.

 

I continue despite being aware of this, as i see some of the community managers, game masters, etc actually care about the game. So assuming that they might be able to support some player demands is not far from reality. Therefore i am always happy if some guys nail some points and i try to support them. But like irl - the usual attention span is too short, and you find in 3 to 6 months basically the same issues like today in this thread, just with other vehicle names.

 

 

Edit:

 

I am curious what in my post is able to create a "confused" emote? Too many words? Too complicated to understand? I mean i have zero problems with other opinions, so a "sad" and a reply post would be fine for me, but just a confused is not helpful. I mean your confusion is mainly your personal problem, and not mine. Think about it... 

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Uncle J Wick@live

[Xermaz 73]

so, can someone can explain to me why type-90 have to go 11.0 while t-90a at 10.7?

i can list the advantage of type-90 to t-90a :

• 4 seconds reload
• better reverse speed
• little faster top speed
• little faster at turret rotation.

now the disadvantage :

• weaker apfsds
• older thermal
• 8.8x zoom optic at the lowest
• virtually no armor

 

i'm just confused that type-90 have to go up. i know some tank got plus and minus, but type-90 can be killed by anything frontally while it has to go for the weak spot with a measly  JM33.

Edited April 16, 2023 by Xermaz

[Yansomi 79]

3 hours ago, Xermaz said:

so, can someone can explain to me why type-90 have to go 11.0 while t-90a at 10.7?

i can list the advantage of type-90 to t-90a :

• 4 seconds reload
• better reverse speed
• little faster top speed
• little faster at turret rotation.

now the disadvantage :

• weaker apfsds
• older thermal
• 8.8x zoom optic at the lowest
• virtually no armor

 

i'm just confused that type-90 have to go up. i know some tank got plus and minus, but type-90 can be killed by anything frontally while it has to go for the weak spot with a measly  JM33.

this has ben discussed many times, not the Type-90 but why Russia has stuff that could do as well as the rest on lower BR, when the competition on other factions dont get the same treatment, while being considerably worse off in hardstats.

My theory whould be that with softstats shuch as reload and turrent speed can make upp for some cases when you make a misstake, if you can react fast enough, and a lot of maps favor this over armor, because they are more CQC like, on larger maps this play less of a role, and armor becomes more viable, with that said, there is also a lot more ppl playing Russia, with such a flow of new inexperienced players, they get premium and hardgrind to the top, where they do realy badly in these types of tanks, because the skill you need with these tanks is not reaction time, sure it helps, but planing ahead is the hardfactor in this, more experienced players can use these tanks in great effect couse they learnd planing, but it is a skill that takes time to learn, and it seems like something new players don't give that much tought in to, so what you have is a bad playerbase that brought the tank down in br couse they don't know how to use it, while Japan in the oposite, much smaller playerbase, and is a nation that attrachts more experienced players that is going to grind their second or third faction, BR changes never account for skill in the players using them, only hard win/lose stats, so we get this situation where some tanks are clearly under BR'd.