Give the ZTZ99-III the DTC10-125 APFSDS

[Ariesv 692]

Thanks to @Laurelix for providing the sources and writeup for this suggestion.

 

Give the ZTZ99-III the DTC10-125 APFSDS

Why?
1. China needs a 11.0 tank
2. To make it more different from ZTZ99-II
3. It was compatible to use it

----------

Proof to Reason No.3

Here we can see that DTC10-125 rounds are being loaded into Basic ZTZ-99's as well as a ZTZ96A.
For balance reasons lets keep the DTC10-125 for ZTZ99-III / ZTZ96B / ZTZ99A only.

 

So how do we know that's DTC10-125?

 

Left Side = DTW-125 / BTA4 - Easily identifiable by its green ballistic cap tip
Right Side = DTC10-125 - Does not have a ballistic cap and instead its penetrator extends all the way to the top.

 

- Lack of Green Ballistic cap seen here and clearly identified by the 'DTC10-125' written on it

 

 

The reason for this is that the Chinese didn't want to make a longer projectile otherwise it wouldn't be compatible with most of their tanks and their autoloaders. However they still wanted to increase the Penetration Performance. So they made the penetrator as long as possible to get the maximum out of the limited projectile length.
The DTC10-125 also utilizes a new Taigen propellant. The third phase of the 125mm armor-piercing projectile uses the Taigen propellant with high pressure display efficiency. The gradient of its chamber pressure curve is small, and the kinetic energy of the muzzle is greatly improved, which increases its Muzzle Velocity to 1800m/s

Since DTC10-125 is so similar and directly upgraded from DTW-125, I need to make sure that Gaijin is made aware of the real DTW-125 values otherwise the DTC10-125 will also end up incorrectly implemented. According to Gaijin's Table... 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRbRmgebNJfxOJPvIf8nYiqZD-Y_bqjuPFNqJVm00ZpxliukJtkrPtbeNmRxEMnqHzIiOqnlTpkZoKs/pubhtml

 

DTW-125 is 570mm x 23mm Penetrator with 17500kg/m3 density. (4.15kg) 
There are 2 issues with this:
1. Gaijin has assumed it has tracer which made them underestimate its actual penetrator length, but there is actually no tracer.
2. The diameter is too high making the weight exceed 125-I (4.03kg) which shouldn't be the case, otherwise the DTW-125 would of been slower than 125-I APFSDS

From this internal cutout we can see that the round has no tracer. The Penetrator is actually 605mm x 22mm (Not 570mm x 23mm)

Thanks to this information we also know that DTC10-125 also lacks tracer because it was directly upgraded from the DTW-125, and the penetrator extends right to the very top.

 

So what the Chinese have Essentially managed to create is a 654mm projectile with a 634mm x 22mm penetrator.
Whether the Tungsten Alloy was improved over the DTW-125, I don't know but it is a possibility.

Either way...
According to Chinese Official Figures...
DTW-125 / BTA4 achieves 220mm @ 2000m (68.5) --> 600 LOS in their unknown criteria (Most likely 300-320BHN, 80-90% criteria)
[War Thunder uses 260BHN, 50% Criteria]

DTC10-125 is rated 250mm @ 2000m (68.5) --> 680 LOS in Chinese Criteria

Thanks to this we know that DTC10-125 should have 13.3333% more penetration than DTW-125 at 2000 meters.

 

[leroyonly 4,310]

Open for discussion. 

[NAYEONnaise 1,936]

+1, China has one of the least potent rounds at top tier, and has nothing to compensate atm. Its strongest competitor is one ZTZ99-III MBT (99-II is inadequate for seeing combat against 11.0). So I agree with giving 99-III DTC10-125.

[Milocat 4,842]

+1 for more ammo options.  

[CakeJuniorMan 176]

+1! This would be nice for balancing tanks! But isn't there an export variant of the DTW-125 called the DTW-125M APFSDS? 

[leroyonly 4,310]

@Ariesv Open for discussion once more 

 

However please don't edit your suggestion to include more information in regards to this ammo type, I really don't want to go through the hoops for this round again.

[jet_17_49 411]

+1

Edited April 10, 2022 by jet_17_49

[-陆战型扎古II- 107]

good, need that

 

[Kolanskii 10]

+1 if we cant get the ztz-99A then this would be a nice addition 

[安东星云玩家 2]

发一个吧麻溜的

[MO_Smart_Sharkon 882]

As later photos and description from PLAGF, CCTV-7 or Chinese equivalent of Ebay (Xianyu by Alibaba) showed that DTC10-125 doesn't have the highest penetration possible (at only 6xx mm w/o ballistic cap), to make ZTZ99-III at least more competitive, it would be very essential to add DTC10-125 for it; it might even need a FCS upgrade if there's more indirect evidence that it shared a more advanced FCS to later PLAGF tanks in 2000s.

[SliverJian 107]

According to some papers, the PLA's 125 Phase III cartridge uses a tail-mounted short-bar design (sleeve rod) similar to the 3bm26 to enhance penetration, which makes it stronger than conventional ammunition when facing inclined armor

[-陆战型扎古II- 107]

I think if ZTZ-99-III equiped with 125-III it will get a rise of BR, therefore the GP125 ATGM is also reasonable to be added.

[NAYEONnaise 1,936]

finally we're getting ZTZ99A. and it's getting this! I hope the shell becomes available for the ZTZ99-III as well.

[Megumin13@live 13]

prob not gonna have realistic stats for it because reasons

[CakeJuniorMan 176]

6 hours ago, Megumin13@live said:

prob not gonna have realistic stats for it because reasons

Yes, I know what happened. But I don’t want to talk about it. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by CakeJuniorMan

[lmperator 77]

1 hour ago, CakeJuniorMan said:

Yes, I know what happened. But I don’t want to talk about it. 

It should reach 680mm LOS anyway

 

Spoiler

 

[WebKiller 35]

+1

Edited June 2, 2022 by WebKiller

[安东Official 55]

Well this 577mm useless shell is not what we are expecting.

[Kingtiez@live 606]

+1

[Zev_Winters 313]

On 04/06/2022 at 11:56, Zhnang198964 said:

Well this 577mm useless shell is not what we are expecting.

If you've got information about the shell's properties (weight, length, etc), bug report it here: https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/1961-ammunition-and-weaponry/

 

Complaining randomly won't get anything fixed. If I had the sources and knew Chinese I'd do it myself.

[leroyonly 4,310]

As the DTC10-125 APFSDS round has been implemented with update 2.17 Danger Zone,

 

Moved to Implemented Suggestions.