BV 238's missing 13 mm beam and waist turrets?

[NotKringe 227]

So, while I'm digging myself into Airwar.ru articles for my new flying boat suggestion, I've stumbled upon this.

 

This is an archive scan of the BV 238's design blueprint, showing its beam and waist turret placements, these turrets were to be equipped with two 13 mm MG 131 machine guns. These turrets, however, were missing from the game.

 

Several source about the BV 238 makes a mention of the BV 238 having these turrets, including several books cited as a reference by Wikipedia and Planes Encyclopedia. However, I didn't have my hands on any of these books and thus were unable to confirm whether if this is actually the "true" planned defensive armaments of the BV 238 or not, so I cannot write an "official" suggestion for this.

 

Any idea if this is true or not?

[Godzilla_Kirito 4]

I don't know, and I'm not a historian, but the BV-238 is already hell for enemies, so let's not bring this to Gaijin's attention.

 

Either that or they knew it would be too op and found another version of it without the waist turrets. If they did make them with the waist turrets, there would probably be a lot of complaints about it, and at some point they would find a version of the blueprints without the waist turrets, or any turrets at all.

[Chomusuke1 1,223]

On 22/02/2022 at 23:38, Godzilla_Kirito said:

BV-238 is already hell for enemies, so let's not bring this to Gaijin's attention

The Bv 238 is incorrect. As a premium aircraft gaijin should make it a priority to fix it since people paid money for a faulty product, nevermind your feelings about it being 'hell for its enemies'. To fix it, it needs to be renamed to Bv 238 V4, it needs its missing side MG 131z in the beam position, and it needs its missing wing bomb racks in order for it to have its heavier payloads:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Metrallaroja 1,326]

57 minutes ago, Chomusuke1 said:

The Bv 238 is incorrect. As a premium aircraft gaijin should make it a priority to fix it since people paid money for a faulty product, nevermind your feelings about it being 'hell for its enemies'. To fix it, it needs to be renamed to Bv 238 V4, it needs its missing side MG 131z in the beam position, and it needs its missing wing bomb racks in order for it to have its heavier payloads:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you think you have valid sources please report it.

But I cant see those Mg 131 here:

[Chomusuke1 1,223]

23 hours ago, Metrallaroja said:

If you think you have valid sources please report it

You know that doesn't work. For example after multiple reports by multiple people (and even some recent ones by me) and the passing of a full decade, even basic, well known aircraft with plenty of information such as the He 111 H, Ju 88 A, & Hs 129 B remain in their broken state:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/535170-29026-incorrectmissing-bombloads-on-the-heinkel-he-111-h-6

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/535574-29036-incorrectmissing-bombloads-on-the-heinkel-he-111-h-16

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/547564-2130125-incorrectmissing-wingracks-bombloads-on-the-junkers-ju-88-a-4

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/547165-2130123-missing-rüstsätzeweapons-on-the-henschel-hs-129-b-2

 

23 hours ago, Metrallaroja said:

But I cant see those Mg 131 here

If you can see one of my above excerpts where it states that in April 1942, the big lateral barbettes pictured here:

 

 

were abandoned in favor of a simple SL 131, you can see these SL 131 in the very drawing that you have provided (marked in red). For your convenience, I found your entire drawing and merged it with my yellow one for comparison:

 

 

For further comparison, the BV 238's predecessor, the BV 222 also used a similar MG 131 position pictured below:

 

Edited March 24, 2023 by Chomusuke1

[Metrallaroja 1,326]

51 minutes ago, Chomusuke1 said:

You know that doesn't work. For example after multiple reports by multiple people (and even some recent ones by me) and the passing of a full decade, even basic, well known aircraft with plenty of information such as the He 111 H, Ju 88 A, & Hs 129 B remain in their broken state:

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/535170-29026-incorrectmissing-bombloads-on-the-heinkel-he-111-h-6

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/535574-29036-incorrectmissing-bombloads-on-the-heinkel-he-111-h-16

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/547564-2130125-incorrectmissing-wingracks-bombloads-on-the-junkers-ju-88-a-4

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/547165-2130123-missing-rüstsätzeweapons-on-the-henschel-hs-129-b-2

All the missing loadouts are processed as suggestions and they are still open for consideration.

Is up to the developers to change them or not.

51 minutes ago, Chomusuke1 said:

If you can see one of my above excerpts where it states that in April 1942, the big lateral barbettes pictured here:

 

 

were abandoned in favor of a simple SL 131, you can see these SL 131 in the very drawing that you have provided (marked in red). For your convenience, I found your entire drawing and merged it with my yellow one for comparison:

 

 

For further comparison, the BV 238's predecessor, the BV 222 also used a similar MG 131 position pictured below:

 

But this with the correct documentation could be processed as a model issue which still if correct would take its time to be made into the game but it would not be a suggestion.

[Metrallaroja 1,326]

From what I can see this turrets were previously reported.
Correct turret for in game model would be this one but they were not modelled in game because of lack of documentation on them.

 

If someone provides how they work and how they are designed, it could be forwarded to the developers.

[Chomusuke1 1,223]

On 24/03/2023 at 07:09, Metrallaroja said:

Correct turret for in game model would be this one but they were not modelled in game because of lack of documentation on them

 

Actually, that is just a top view of the barbette which I had pictured earlier from the side:

 

 

As stated before, these were abandoned in April 1942. Anyway...

Metrallaroja, do you know why I cannot submit a new bug report? Is there something wrong with the bug report section?

 

Edit: I will leave all of this below here as to not lose it:

 

# Game version 2.25.0.48

 

Platform

 

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit

 

Affected Vehicle

 

Blohm & Voss BV 238 V4

 

Description of the issue

 

BV 238 V4 has a missing square viewport plus its associated defensive armament of a Seitenstand (S-Stand) MG 131Z machine gun in this game

 

Spoiler

 

Suggested Fix

 

The complex turrets/barbettes on the BV 238 were abandoned in April 1942  in favor of a manned SL 131 position. Add in this missing square viewport plus its associated SL 131 mit MG 131Z machine gun to both sides of the aircraft

 

Sources

 

Source One: "BV 238 Seefernaufklärer Bomber und Großraumtransporter Baubeschreibung Juni 1943 " by Blohm & Voss Flugzeugbau

Spoiler

 

Source Two: "Monografie Lotnicze #29 BV 222 Wiking BV 238" by Marian Krzyzan pages 20 & 22

Spoiler

 

Source Three: "Luftwaffe Secret Bombers of The Third Reich" by Dan Sharp page 38

Spoiler

 

Source Four: "Warplanes of the Third Reich" by William Green pages 98 & 99

Spoiler

 

Supplementary image of an SL 131 mit MG 131 mount on the BV 222, the predecessor to the BV 238

Source Five: "https://www.seawings.co.uk/Bv222ManGal.htm" by ?????

Spoiler

Edited March 26, 2023 by Chomusuke1

[Metrallaroja 1,326]

33 minutes ago, Chomusuke1 said:

Metrallaroja, do you know why I cannot submit a new bug report on this (as of 6:00 Am EDT)? Is there something currently wrong with the bug report section?

we have already fully switched to the new platform, please report it there: https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder

[Chomusuke1 1,223]

When did this happen and why? As an older person, that new system is incomprehensible to me when they first introduced it last year. Why did it spread to the Historical Reports/Aircraft/Weapons and Ordnance section and is there a legacy/simple mode or some such thing?

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Chomusuke1

[Metrallaroja 1,326]

11 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

When did this happen and why? As an older person, that new system is incomprehensible to me when they first introduced it last year. Why did it spread to the Historical Reports/Aircraft/Weapons and Ordnance section and is there a legacy/simple mode or some such thing?

 

It is a way better platform to process reports.

Is not hard to use, you just have to get used to it. If you want to report you will need to learn it sooner or later.

The only big change is that you cant mix images with text, but dont worry about it. Make it as concise and clear as you can, add the images on the upload section and your report will have more chances than mixing images and text in a way too long report.

I made a small guide for you, hope it helps.